Guildships COST 50 MILLION CREDITS!?

[Grayseven]

So, you'd be turned off at having to pay 50mil, which could take you weeks to get, in order to start raiding...

 

But, you're okay with the current system of leveling to 55, and getting a full 156 gear set, which could take you weeks to get, in order to start raiding.

 

So, it's not the time investment that's bothering you, it's the money. Sorry, no sympathy here.

 

Again, two completely different things. You like to use false analogy to try to back up your argument a lot, don't you? At some point you may actually get an analogy that is pertinent and correct, but I'm beginning to believe it may be a while.

[Infernixx]

What about people who did start getting their credits together based on the assumption that the content would be released at a reasonable price, only to find the price at an unreasonable level?

 

Your attacks on people assume that everyone either didn't bother to prepare. Wrong, people simply feel that the price tag is unreasonable and are voicing their opinion. Your opinion on their opinion doesn't matter one small bit.

 

Considering that it was pretty well known that the Dev mentioned that it would cost 'hundreds of millions' to fully upgrade a Guild Ship, it might not have been 'reasonable' to assume they would be cheap to attain.

 

And you have a funny definition of 'attack.' I've yet to insult anyone.

[Grayseven]

Except this argument for the price has been posted at least 3 times in this topic (or one of the copies of it) by myself and others (but you probably chose to ignore it). The buy-in price is a check if the guild is capable of doing enough content or working towards a common goal to be a formidable force in conquests.

 

Is it? Is it really? How do you know this? I've not seen nor heard anything from the games Dev's that back up your supposition.

 

The only thing I've seen from the Dev's is that they looked at what was in guild banks and based their number on the average, and even that was "second hand" information.

 

All that we really know at this time is that 50 million gets you a ship that gives you some QoL perks as a guild and allows you to partake in "conquest" which hasn't been explained at all. For all we know, it's just a daily area.

[Grayseven]

Considering that it was pretty well known that the Dev mentioned that it would cost 'hundreds of millions' to fully upgrade a Guild Ship, it might not have been 'reasonable' to assume they would be cheap to attain.

 

And you have a funny definition of 'attack.' I've yet to insult anyone.

 

Nice try, but a condescending attitude coupled with false analogies are attacks. They aren't constructive arguments.

 

And no, it isn't "well known" since no one in our large guild heard about it. You want to post a source of your claim or shall you resort to another false analogy?

[Infernixx]

Is it? Is it really? How do you know this? I've not seen nor heard anything from the games Dev's that back up your supposition.

 

The only thing I've seen from the Dev's is that they looked at what was in guild banks and based their number on the average, and even that was "second hand" information.

 

All that we really know at this time is that 50 million gets you a ship that gives you some QoL perks as a guild and allows you to partake in "conquest" which hasn't been explained at all. For all we know, it's just a daily area.

 

No, that's incorrect. We know far more than that. Well, some of us do.

[Infernixx]

Nice try, but a condescending attitude coupled with false analogies are attacks. They aren't constructive arguments.

 

And no, it isn't "well known" since no one in our large guild heard about it. You want to post a source of your claim or shall you resort to another false analogy?

 

You're just imagining things. I'm not being condescending at all. And again, 'attack' has a specific definition and 'using false analogies' isn't included in that definition. You're not allowed to redefine things just so you can throw accusations and condemnations at me because you're upset.

 

And I cannot help it if your guild didn't bother to research Guild Ships. The information was out there.

[Darkheyr]

To be fair, communication has been lousy. You pretty much have to watch the livestreams for a lot of information, which isn't always possible - especially considering timezones.

 

Add in language barriers for some people...

[Aries_cz]

Is it? Is it really? How do you know this? I've not seen nor heard anything from the games Dev's that back up your supposition.

 

The only thing I've seen from the Dev's is that they looked at what was in guild banks and based their number on the average, and even that was "second hand" information.

 

All that we really know at this time is that 50 million gets you a ship that gives you some QoL perks as a guild and allows you to partake in "conquest" which hasn't been explained at all. For all we know, it's just a daily area.

 

Yes, they looked at the average amount in guild banks. Which means the average amount of money guilds have been able to put together for certain common goals (and they did mention guild ships are going to cost many millions some time ago).

We can assume a lot from seeing the crafting items we require for conquests and archaeological digs, which are usually pretty good and precise.

[BuriDogshin]

What about people who did start getting their credits together based on the assumption that the content would be released at a reasonable price.

It is being released at a reasonable price. Unlike when Rise of the Hutt Cartel was first released, subscribers can get access to everything in 2.9 without paying any additional real money at all. That's really very generous of BW.

[BuriDogshin]

And you have a funny definition of 'attack.' I've yet to insult anyone.

He takes every disagreement as an attack, perhaps because of pitifully low self-esteem. I've seen it before.

[Grayseven]

He takes every disagreement as an attack, perhaps because of pitifully low self-esteem. I've seen it before.

 

Nope. You can disagree all you want, but bring a real argument to the table. Using analogies that do not fit the argument and being condescending to anyone who disagrees with your disagreement is an attack. It may be passive-aggressive like this quote, but it's still an attack.

 

People keep making claims about the data being out there, but I've yet to see any sources cited.

[Grayseven]

It is being released at a reasonable price. Unlike when Rise of the Hutt Cartel was first released, subscribers can get access to everything in 2.9 without paying any additional real money at all. That's really very generous of BW.

 

You may consider 50 million to be reasonable, others do not. Anyone in a smaller guild probably does not. Anyone with real responsibilities and limited playing time should not ( though it appears some of them do for some strange reason).

 

Most reasonable would be to not have a credit price on them at all, but make them "earned" through normal game play that guilds would partake in, such as Guild operations runs. The Dev's took the lazy way out by putting a credit price on the content and then tried to gate it with a large credit price.

 

Ultimately, just rolling with it because you personally don't find it onerous while ignoring the voices of those that do is kind of selfish, don't you think?

[ikinai]

You may consider 50 million to be reasonable, others do not. Anyone in a smaller guild probably does not. Anyone with real responsibilities and limited playing time should not ( though it appears some of them do for some strange reason).

 

Most reasonable would be to not have a credit price on them at all, but make them "earned" through normal game play that guilds would partake in, such as Guild operations runs. The Dev's took the lazy way out by putting a credit price on the content and then tried to gate it with a large credit price.

 

Ultimately, just rolling with it because you personally don't find it onerous while ignoring the voices of those that do is kind of selfish, don't you think?

 

If you have enough players to do a guild ops run, you've got enough players to earn 50 million credits fairly quickly.

[Darkheyr]

Yes, but its not reasonable for certain constellations of playstile and game time allotment, especially considering that some people just want the ship as an RP platform.

 

Nobody would be hurt if there was a smaller buy-in, but the current buy-in bar is prohibitive for some, or just an unreasonable price for what they'd do with it for others.

 

I just think that Bioware could make it accessible for more people without hurting anyone else in the process, and then make the upgrades themselves what larger or more involved guilds could strive forward. Similar to how you can start with some casual story mode operations before going hardmode/nightmare.

[Khevar]

I just think that Bioware could make it accessible for more people without hurting anyone else in the process, and then make the upgrades themselves what larger or more involved guilds could strive forward. Similar to how you can start with some casual story mode operations before going hardmode/nightmare.

Just curious, would you object to the base price lowered to something like 10 million, but the upgrade prices increased so that the total (with upgrades) remained the same? (e.g. 130 million if that figure ends up being correct)

Edited July 31, 2014 by Khevar

[Darkheyr]

I would find it less of an obstacle to the people I'm refering to, and I'd probably front 10 millions myself for my guild. Still, I think another mechanic entirely would be the better approach. The upgrades progressively increasing in cost would be fine, in my eyes - especially if that is related to the actual guild content, which it seems to be as far as we know.

 

I just don't see another mechanic happening this close to launch.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Darkheyr

[BuriDogshin]

Yes, but its not reasonable for certain constellations of playstile and game time allotment, especially considering that some people just want the ship as an RP platform.

You can't always get what you want. And who needs a guild ship to play SWTOR? No one.

[Darkheyr]

Yet everyone needs one to do guild content.

 

As said, if that was a common bar for an entire content type, I'd quickly stop playing. I'd certainly never start raiding if it had a 50 million entry price.

[Aries_cz]

Yet everyone needs one to do guild content.

 

As said, if that was a common bar for an entire content type, I'd quickly stop playing. I'd certainly never start raiding if it had a 50 million entry price.

 

And yet, there are entry barriers to raiding as well in form of gear, which also takes effort and credits to get.

it is a price for an enitre guild, which is something people refuse to realize. A well organized guild capable of putting together an OPS team (meaning guild that has a chance at actually being a factor in conquests system) is more than capable of putting together 50 millions.

[scottythebod]

You may consider 50 million to be reasonable, others do not. Anyone in a smaller guild probably does not. Anyone with real responsibilities and limited playing time should not ( though it appears some of them do for some strange reason).

And you accuse others of attacking or being condescending. Yet somehow you've become the representative of what anyone with "real responsibilities" should consider reasonable? Try this, I work 50 hours a week, I'm married, I have a 10 month old son, a house payment, 2 car payments etc etc. I find the 50 million price perfectly reasonable for something that is designed to be an accomplishment for a guild. It's not something 6 people are supposed to be doing by themselves.

 

Yes it's harder work for a small guild, that's the down side of being in a small guild, you will have to work harder at anything in order to have any hopes of competing with the large guilds. You think once you get into guild conquest your 6 man guild is going to compete with guilds with hundreds of active members? Then you'll be back in here complaining that guild conquest is unfair to small guilds.

 

Most reasonable would be to not have a credit price on them at all, but make them "earned" through normal game play that guilds would partake in, such as Guild operations runs. The Dev's took the lazy way out by putting a credit price on the content and then tried to gate it with a large credit price.

Do you not get credits & items from guild operations runs? Couldn't you do guild operation runs, collect all or part of the proceeds from said run & sell that for credits to put towards the guild ships? Then couldn't you in theory get the credits for your ship by doing op runs, how is that different from what you described? If they made an op that gave no credits or item drops but after completion gave you a token & made the price say 500 tokens would that really be any different? You still have to run an op over & over, the only difference is now you have to trade in loot for credits vs. getting some token.

 

And if some people in your guild like to PvP they can PvP & turn in credits from that, some people like to craft or farm crafting mats & sell on GTN. This way no matter what my playstyle I can contribute by doing what I enjoy in the game. (I'll give you RPers, but they could also send comps on mat gathering missions while RPing) I'm just not seeing the big difference between what you're suggesting & just running the ops we already have & turning the proceeds into the guild bank.

 

Ultimately, just rolling with it because you personally don't find it onerous while ignoring the voices of those that do is kind of selfish, don't you think?

Not really. First I don't know what you mean by "just rolling with it", we have no say on whether they change the price or not, so I'm not sure what choice we have beyond just "rolling with it". But given that I expected them to cost much more (based on costs of similar items in other MMO's I've played) I'm not sure what you expect. I'm not ignoring anyone who disagrees, but I just fail to see their point. But again what do you expect me to do just roll over & agree with them so I don't seem selfish? The opinion that the 50 mil price is perfectly reasonable is just as valid as your opinion that it isn't.

Edited July 31, 2014 by scottythebod

[DarthTHC]

Nice try, but a condescending attitude coupled with false analogies are attacks. They aren't constructive arguments.

 

And no, it isn't "well known" since no one in our large guild heard about it. You want to post a source of your claim or shall you resort to another false analogy?

 

Then you weren't following along with all the info coming out about guild ships, which means you weren't all that interested in guild ships.

 

At the outset, I believe they suggested they would be acquired via credits (though the question remained if it would be exclusively credits).

 

As time went on and more cantina events occurred and more questions were asked, it became plainly clear that guild ships would cost in the high 8 to low 9 figure range.

 

The information was available both here on this web site and on Dulfy's web site (the absolute best, most informative, must-visit web site for anyone interested in the goings on within SWTOR) and featured prominently on each following each cantina event.

 

Anyone who didn't know months ago that they would need many tens of millions of credits to buy a guild ship either wasn't paying attention (thus it wasn't important to them) or was deliberately deceiving themselves.

[Darkheyr]

The only thing you need to start raiding is a level 55 character - or 50, for the old ones.

 

The requirements for more difficult ops are fulfilled by doing easier ops. Normal content progression. Which is basically what those suggesting a lower starting point for everyone want.

[DarthTHC]

You may consider 50 million to be reasonable, others do not. Anyone in a smaller guild probably does not. Anyone with real responsibilities and limited playing time should not ( though it appears some of them do for some strange reason).

 

Most reasonable would be to not have a credit price on them at all, but make them "earned" through normal game play that guilds would partake in, such as Guild operations runs. The Dev's took the lazy way out by putting a credit price on the content and then tried to gate it with a large credit price.

 

Ultimately, just rolling with it because you personally don't find it onerous while ignoring the voices of those that do is kind of selfish, don't you think?

 

There's that throw in the towel mentality again. "I can't fathom how to do it so I pretend anyone who can is a lifeless loser who has nothing better to do than game." Come off it. Get some self respect.

 

I have a job that takes 50 hours a week on a normal week, more when stuff is hitting the fan. I have a wife. I have a kid that I just moved to college. 3 dogs. 1 cat. 3 cars, one of which is a convertible that we take out for a drive whenever the weather is good. I play 2 musical instruments, one of which takes up 2 evenings each week with lessons. I have a mortgage and haven't lived in mommy & daddy's house in about 18 years, and then only for about 6 weeks while between homes - sold one, building another. I never lived in their basement. I don't have a beard on my neck.

 

Yet somehow, against all odds (not really) me and a guild filled with a bunch of people who are busier than I am outside of the game are going to manage to put together right around enough for two of these things, fully decked out.

 

You know why?

 

It's because we are adults who have responsibilities and jobs and mortgages and things that take us away from the game. Because we've learned that, to get what you want out of life, or a relationship, or a job, or your kids, or a game, you have to think about how you do things, plan, and prioritize.

 

On top of that, we paid attention to the things that were being said - almost shoved into our faces - about guild ships here on these forums and on Dulfy's most excellent site. It was plainly clear to anyone interested that credits would be one method of acquisition and it would take a lot of them.

 

So, really, stop belittling yourself by telling yourself you can't possibly do it because of gaming time or whatever other excuse you want to make for yourself or fantasy you want to contrive about those who have done it. Anyone can do it. Anyone that's in a guild that has any hope of participating effectively in the conquest content the ships enable, anyway.

 

You just have to think about what you're doing and want to do it and plan it out and execute.

 

If you haven't been paying attention to all the information that has come out in the last 19 weeks, or you've been deceiving yourself, hoping against hope that everyone was lying or exaggerating, well, you get to start now instead of 19 weeks ago. That means you might not get a ship at release. But you can still get one.

 

If you simply can't tolerate not getting one at release, sucks to be you. Grind your tail off and pay better attention to the information floating about on the most popular SWTOR sites next time.

Edited July 31, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Tsillah]

Except this argument for the price has been posted at least 3 times in this topic (or one of the copies of it) by myself and others (but you probably chose to ignore it). The buy-in price is a check if the guild is capable of doing enough content or working towards a common goal to be a formidable force in conquests.

 

I didn't choose to ignore it. What a ridiculous assumption. You do know people have other things to do as well in real life so in threads like this you are bound to miss something?

 

I do not read back all the pages of nonesense for gems, but I am glad he mentioned at a time I was here in a way that caught my attention. If you feel underappreciated because you said it first then good for you for mentioning it already. I just missed it. If you are someone who reads everything he missed I probably would just feel sorry for you.

[DarthTHC]

I didn't choose to ignore it. What a ridiculous assumption. You do know people have other things to do as well in real life so in threads like this you are bound to miss something?

 

I do not read back all the pages of nonesense for gems, but I am glad he mentioned at a time I was here in a way that caught my attention. If you feel underappreciated because you said it first then good for you for mentioning it already. I just missed it. If you are someone who reads everything he missed I probably would just feel sorry for you.

 

He gets upset when you comment on something that's vaguely like something he said 15 pages ago but didn't comment on his 15 pages ago. He left a similar comment to me, but when I challenged him to prove it he grew suddenly silent.

 

Someday he'll get enough hugs. Maybe he should get a puppy.