Best Game to Date. "Personal Opinion"

[Sarfux]

If he is not asking anything...then the only thing we can do is agree or disagree with him.

 

You can basically look at it as people agreeing or disagreeing by posting what the best game to date is in their eyes.

 

Not sure why you're getting upset about people doing so.

 

Alright. Whatever my mistake. Sorry then.

[Sarfux]

Thanks, mom. We'll take into consideration what you just said.

 

Thank you son

[hadoken]

If capturing the WoW crowd was a necessity, then I guess it's fair to assume the game didn't made as well as some people adore to imply?

 

Is someone actually implying that? I don't think there's any doubt that SWG didn't come close to what WOW did. At the time it came out (when ~500k subs was top dog) it was a pretty big deal.

[TUXs]

Guys I think you are missing the point. This is his opinion saying this is the best game to date for him, not asking you guys which is your best game to date

 

Oh, well in that case, I have to say that Rogue Squadron was the game that hooked me, as well as Dark Forces, followed eventually by Battlefront 1 (not 2, 2 sucked), but SWG was the 1st game I played where there was no "end"...blew me away!!!! So..SWG is my favorite game ever.

[Sarfux]

Oh, well in that case, I have to say that Rogue Squadron was the game that hooked me, as well as Dark Forces, followed eventually by Battlefront 1 (not 2, 2 sucked), but SWG was the 1st game I played where there was no "end"...blew me away!!!! So..SWG is my favorite game ever.

 

.....ok

[TUXs]

.....ok

 

I was teasing you I'm glad SWTOR is his favorite game ever...I hope to add it to my list someday

[Darth_Wicked]

Is someone actually implying that? I don't think there's any doubt that SWG didn't come close to what WOW did. At the time it came out (when ~500k subs was top dog) it was a pretty big deal.

 

I'm not saying you were, mind you; My bad if it sounded as such.

 

It's just that around these parts, it is fairly common to praise or reminiscence SWG as the greatest thing to bless this Earth since Jesus was supposedly around 2000 years back and yet... Well, we know how both ended truth be told.

[TheSeventhJedi]

I dunno about Destiny. On one hand - Bungie! - on the other hand, the only MMOFPS I've played was PlanetSide2 and I found it lackluster.

 

Try it out man. I'm playing the beta right now, and I am very impressed.

[Kalfear]

A good list but to be honest the one thing we all owe to WoW, is having proven one can deliver a seriously polished MMO.

 

Without it MMO polish would still suck.

 

Now I'd say you missed a point in your list: choice.

 

Pre-CU SWG for example allowed players to be who/what they wanted and through the path they choose, be it combat, crafting or socialization or a mix of those. None MMO to my knowledge did it yet.

 

nope

 

In your list maybe but in my list SWG actually is one of the worst MMORPGs ever made

 

The combat was unimpressive

the crafting was involved enough that I would look at it when designing a new crafting system for a MMORPG, but most of SWGs crafting system would be tossed out as to involved and complex for the average user.

 

Socialization SWG cant even stand in same light as DAoC, EQ, oNWN on AOL, and really a host of other MMORPGs from that era.

 

I know SWG fan look back with rose colored glasses and somehow manage to ignore the endless list of problems, bugs, exploits, and design flaws that game had. But facts of matter is SWG was a failure on pretty much every category for everyone but a small nitch group who ultimately lacked the numbers to keep the game alive or profitable.

 

Sorry Deewe but I didnt miss SWG at all in my list.

It was left off list for many many many reasons

[Trevalon]

nope

 

In your list maybe but in my list SWG actually is one of the worst MMORPGs ever made

 

The combat was unimpressive

the crafting was involved enough that I would look at it when designing a new crafting system for a MMORPG, but most of SWGs crafting system would be tossed out as to involved and complex for the average user.

 

Socialization SWG cant even stand in same light as DAoC, EQ, oNWN on AOL, and really a host of other MMORPGs from that era.

 

I know SWG fan look back with rose colored glasses and somehow manage to ignore the endless list of problems, bugs, exploits, and design flaws that game had. But facts of matter is SWG was a failure on pretty much every category for everyone but a small nitch group who ultimately lacked the numbers to keep the game alive or profitable.

 

Sorry Deewe but I didnt miss SWG at all in my list.

It was left off list for many many many reasons

 

Just, out of curiosity, did you know that at one point SWG was the number 1 MMO in the U.S. and prior to NGE and WoW it was the 2nd largest U.S. MMO?

 

As much as I loved DAOC (and still consider it the gold standard of MMO PvP), it actually had one of the smaller player bases and maxed out its Subs at around 250k around the launch of Trials of Atlantis.

 

SWG on the other hand maxed out its subs at around 300,000 in less time than DAOC and just before WoW decimated both games.

 

Just saying. Discounting what SWG was is a mistake and it should very much be considered a contender in the history of MMO's.

 

Another fun fact - Prior to WoW's launch SWG earned the distinction of the fastest selling MMO selling more than a million copies quicker than any other MMO - what makes that interesting is that SWTOR holds that same honor for when it launched as well. I wonder if SWTOR's 500kish subs, when taken into account the per capita MMO players per time period, are more...or less than SWG's 300k...I would be willing to be that SWG's 300k is a higher %.

 

Fun Fact 3: Did you know that SWGEmu is one of the largest and most played Emulators of any MMO ever released with over 2000 people on the server many nights? Making that server larger than all SWTOR servers and most WoW servers...

 

I also want to point out that I did not play SWG much except right at launch and quit because of bugs and problems with the game. Nevertheless, I understand its success and contributions to the MMO genre as a whole and would never belittle it like you have.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Trevalon

[LordArtemis]

There is no point arguing the merits of a persons personal list. They have a right to list what they like, and it is silly to argue with them over it.

[RiVaN_]

I have been plying video games since my parents bought me an Atari with Pac Man, Break Out (Pong) and a couple other games just a few weeks after the console was first released on the market. I have to say that in all these years of gaming SWTOR is definitely in my top 5 of favorite games of all time. 20 years of gaming has taught me that replay ability is what I like most about a game, this game has many, MANY features that make it re-playable. Many games, especially MMO's lack the replay ability factor.

 

8 unique character story lines, 16 sub classes and multiple specs to change how you play each character plus the end game content, PvP, GSF, in game events, flash points etc... This game has a lot to offer anyone who gives it an honest and open-minded chance.

 

Yeah I'm a fan of this game and I think it is pretty awesome. Gimme a break I was in 5th grade when Nintendo released their first console, so compared to the majority of the games I have played in my life this one is definitely in the top 5 best for me.

[Kalfear]

Just, out of curiosity, did you know that at one point SWG was the number 1 MMO in the U.S. and prior to NGE and WoW it was the 2nd largest U.S. MMO?

 

As much as I loved DAOC (and still consider it the gold standard of MMO PvP), it actually had one of the smaller player bases and maxed out its Subs at around 250k around the launch of Trials of Atlantis.

 

SWG on the other hand maxed out its subs at around 300,000 in less time than DAOC and just before WoW decimated both games.

 

Just saying. Discounting what SWG was is a mistake and it should very much be considered a contender in the history of MMO's.

 

Another fun fact - Prior to WoW's launch SWG earned the distinction of the fastest selling MMO selling more than a million copies quicker than any other MMO - what makes that interesting is that SWTOR holds that same honor for when it launched as well. I wonder if SWTOR's 500kish subs, when taken into account the per capita MMO players per time period, are more...or less than SWG's 300k...I would be willing to be that SWG's 300k is a higher %.

 

Fun Fact 3: Did you know that SWGEmu is one of the largest and most played Emulators of any MMO ever released with over 2000 people on the server many nights? Making that server larger than all SWTOR servers and most WoW servers...

 

I also want to point out that I did not play SWG much except right at launch and quit because of bugs and problems with the game. Nevertheless, I understand its success and contributions to the MMO genre as a whole and would never belittle it like you have.

 

Yup SWG had name quality

 

Sold over 1 million copies at release (monster sales for that time)

retained less then 20% of those sales 3 months later (their own investory numbers from back then)

 

DAoC retained something like 60% of its subscriptions for over 18 months period in contrast (though to be honest Mythic never had to release those numbers to investors so this was just industry buzz rather then factual public numbers like the SWG numbers).

 

Personally I think a product that retains its subscribers long term is more impressive then a product that peaked and crashed fast with a (at the time) industry record setting retention rate.....and that wasnt a good record to have)

 

SWG was predicted to do over a million and retain them for years

it didnt

Everyone bashes the NGE but fact of matter is NGE actually did rebound and raise SWG subscription numbers because prior to NGE they were that low.

 

Selling better in itself is not a indication of being a great game

 

In the terms of MMORPGs (least pre WOW) retaining subscribers was much much much more important and the normal MMORPG market was much smaller and limited.

 

250k for DAoC up till ToA was dang good numbers for a MMORPG back then.

SWG was suppose to do more and hold more because it was Star Wars.

Much like SW:TOR

Bigger pool to draw from but much higher expectations and much farther to fall if you fail

[Trevalon]

Yup SWG had name quality

 

Sold over 1 million copies at release (monster sales for that time)

retained less then 20% of those sales 3 months later (their own investory numbers from back then)

 

DAoC retained something like 60% of its subscriptions for over 18 months period in contrast (though to be honest Mythic never had to release those numbers to investors so this was just industry buzz rather then factual public numbers like the SWG numbers).

 

Personally I think a product that retains its subscribers long term is more impressive then a product that peaked and crashed fast with a (at the time) industry record setting retention rate.....and that wasnt a good record to have)

 

SWG was predicted to do over a million and retain them for years

it didnt

Everyone bashes the NGE but fact of matter is NGE actually did rebound and raise SWG subscription numbers because prior to NGE they were that low.

 

Selling better in itself is not a indication of being a great game

 

In the terms of MMORPGs (least pre WOW) retaining subscribers was much much much more important and the normal MMORPG market was much smaller and limited.

 

250k for DAoC up till ToA was dang good numbers for a MMORPG back then.

SWG was suppose to do more and hold more because it was Star Wars.

Much like SW:TOR

Bigger pool to draw from but much higher expectations and much farther to fall if you fail

 

Just want to point out that your numbers are actually pretty far off. SWG was released in June of 2003. It peaked its subs at 300,000 in 2004 prior to WoW's release date of Nov 2004. SWG did not sell 1 million copies until August of 2005 - that means it would be impossible to have a less than 20% retention rate - even if it had sold 900,000 of the 1,000,000 copies by 2004 that would still give it a 30% retention rate - which as very improbable and the retention rate was closer to 40-50% prior to the release of WoW.

 

As for the NGE - Yes, Numbers did go up at the launch of a new expansion (Jump to Lightspeed ) but not for very long (This is true with every MMO to date, expansions always see a temporary increase in subs). The entire reason the NGE was created was because Lucas Arts wanted to capture the WoW crowd and felt like if SoE made SWG more like WoW people would quit WoW to play SWG - obviously this didn't work.

 

Smedley has gone on record saying that Sub's of SWG did not plummet till after NGE was released (This was around the time that Sony bought Vanguard and he was responding to inquiries from Vanguard players that SoE would "Change" Vanguard as it had SWG).

 

Lastly, DAOC's max sub rate was 250k right after the launch of the last expansion pack. This is a great feat, but DAOC's sub numbers were never retained that high. Throughout its entire early life the game was always pegged at around 150k subs (They never released their sub numbers because it was a private company at the time).

 

It really doesn't matter all that much - But I think people try to bash SWG way too much. As someone who never enjoyed SWG much and frankly, didn't give it more than 2 months of my time, I still recognize that for its 1 year of glory prior to WoW's launch (Which seriously hurt every MMO out already and not just SWG) it was an extremely successful MMO despite all its flaws - even being the number 2 MMO in the U.S. for that year.

 

Had SWG been released at a time before 2003 and had more time to mature prior to WoW's launch then it's future could have been significantly different and more encouraging. Unfortunately it was released during a very volatile time in MMO genre and the launch of WoW pretty much spelled the doom for SWG ever becoming a mega hit that they wanted it to be. It would have been interesting had it had time to mature as many other MMO's did. If you look at the data for virtually all of the long running MMO's (Think everything from WoW prior) you find that all of them hit their peak sub base between the 3-5 year mark. It is unfortunate that SWG wasn't able to mature to that point prior to WoW's launch as I think it would have peaked at a much higher number than just 300,000 (Reaching that peak at about 1 year mark).

 

It's all speculation of course, but if you look at the industry trends you find that in reality SWG just got dealt a rough set of cards from the very start in terms of launch being in June to WoW coming out only 1.5 years later...

Edited July 24, 2014 by Trevalon

[well]

Original Neverwinter Nights for me, nothing ever comes close to the fun of all types in that game. I suppose you could argue that game was the manifestation of all the day dreaming as a child about Dungeons and Dragons and all of a sudden, wow, I can play this on my computer!

 

Problem being in my honest opinion is that back then, we had limited players interested in the genre, and all those players played their chosen genre. That made the game what it was, none of the morons who play these days, who are as happy playing Grand Theft Auto.

 

Modern MMOs cater to everyone, ergo, the money has gone too big in gaming, which I accept is neccessary. We will never have a game like NWN again, indeed the current incarnation is worse than SWTOR at being anything other than a typical, generic online game.

 

If I had to list my top 3, it would be

 

Neverwinter Nights

Lotro in the early years (up until the Eregion expansion, at which point it started to lose its "Tolkienness" to me)

Any of the single player Baldurs Gate genre.

 

The only thing that sets SWTOR apart is the fact you can swing a light sabre at other people, other than that, it is utterly generic in it's style and a poor one at that. Take away the "starwarsyness" and it has nothing unique to offer. Story telling in class quests was actually excellent, but after doing them all, they do not have the same depth as say an original Baldurs Gate did. Multiple repeatability is lacking.

 

Have you tried Dragon Age Origin? Excellent rpg.

[LordArtemis]

-snip-

 

I'm not sure if I agree with the last part, the part about when SWG was released and it's performance as a result, but I will say that the information prior to that to my knowledge is entirely accurate.

 

It's actually refreshing to find someone that is aware of the truth instead of the usual fallacies connected to SWG and it's subscription numbers/reasons for the CU/NGE.

[jedip_enguin]

Kotor is still my number one, I didnt play it a massive number of times but in terms of experience it was pretty much flawless, and I'm not even a big RPG fan.

[Trevalon]

I'm not sure if I agree with the last part, the part about when SWG was released and it's performance as a result, but I will say that the information prior to that to my knowledge is entirely accurate.

 

It's actually refreshing to find someone that is aware of the truth instead of the usual fallacies connected to SWG and it's subscription numbers/reasons for the CU/NGE.

 

Of course, and that last part is definitely all speculation - I didn't mean to imply that is what WOULD have happened only that I would have liked to see SWG get a fairer shake in terms of the MMO genre as a whole and launch schedules.

[wiredgutter]

Here's my favorites list

 

Fallout 1 & 2, Baldurs Gate 1 & 2, Planescape Torment, Icewind Dale, Dragon Age Origins, Mass Effect Trilogy (3 being my favorite, sue me), Ultima 7 and Serpent Isle, Kotor 1 and 2, an old genesis game called Warsong, Shadowrun (Genesis), Xcom (both the original and the recent one), Swtor, Master of Orion 1 & 2, Counterstrike (circa 2000ish), Halo 1, Fallout New Vegas, Morrowind, Super Metroid, Final Fantasy 3, Chrono Trigger, Goldeneye N64, Zelda: Link to the past, Yoshis Island, Mario Kart 64

 

All of these I've had great memories with friends or party members . Some of these aren't necessarily the best games out there, but at the time seemed amazing

 

My favorite of all time is probably a five way tie between Fallout 2, Baldurs Gate 2, Planescape Torment and Dragon Age Origins, and U7 Serpent Isle, with Mass Effect 3 runner up

 

I'm hoping to add Dragon Age Inquisition and Pillars of Eternity to this list soon, maybe the Numenara game too

Edited July 24, 2014 by wiredgutter

[the_kof]

Good call with Goldeneye 64 as it revolutionized FPS and gaming. Plus it had the best multiplayer ever....good memories.

 

It may be blasphemy on this site to mention Elder Scrolls (as the new MMO just came out). I haven't played that yet- I am too in love with SWTOR- but Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind are great. Played Morrowind and Oblivion at a time when I was stuck in bed, so good memories. I even have a tattoo commemorating these games!

 

I never really play MMOs (I played some SWG but I wasn't a fan, but I heard it got better.) I would put SWTOR near the top of hours regarding gameplay....probably 6 on my list....

[LordArtemis]

Good call with Goldeneye 64 as it revolutionized FPS and gaming. Plus it had the best multiplayer ever....good memories.

 

It may be blasphemy on this site to mention Elder Scrolls (as the new MMO just came out). I haven't played that yet- I am too in love with SWTOR- but Skyrim, Oblivion, and Morrowind are great. Played Morrowind and Oblivion at a time when I was stuck in bed, so good memories. I even have a tattoo commemorating these games!

 

I never really play MMOs (I played some SWG but I wasn't a fan, but I heard it got better.) I would put SWTOR near the top of hours regarding gameplay....probably 6 on my list....

 

Heh, I remember goldeneye....great game.

[Darth_Wicked]

(...)

 

My favorite of all time is probably a five way tie between Fallout 2, Baldurs Gate 2, Planescape Torment and Dragon Age Origins, and U7 Serpent Isle, with Mass Effect 3 runner up

 

I'm hoping to add Dragon Age Inquisition and Pillars of Eternity to this list soon, maybe the Numenara game too

 

WTH...?! How can you have "Mass Effect 3" in the same sentence as Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate 2 and Planescape Torment? Even the first Dragon Age is a huge stretch.

 

Even so... Fallout 2... Planescape Torment... Chris Avellone did wonders with those.