Guardian vs Sentinel

[HemiHilliard]

Hello,

 

I was curious to know ppls opinions on which is more fun to play dps guardian or sent and how big of a gap is the difference in dps between the two for PVE? Also, I would like ppl who have experience with both to give opinions. I have a 55 sent right now but I keep seeing ppl talk about Vig Guardian so I'm trying to figure out if I want to level a guardian now or not. Was also debating on leveling a shadow too if anyone wants to chime in on that also feel free.

 

 

Thanks

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I have played both a 55 Marauder of all specs, and a 51 Guardian of all specs. Ill start with Sent/Mara

 

Combat: Good Damage, IF you can master it. Otherwise, you will be hitting like a wet noodle.

 

Watchman: Great Damage, doesnt need too much mastery to play. I can play Watchman in my sleep practically.

 

Focus: Crappy damage, unless your in AOE heavy fights. otherwise, dont bother with Focus tree.

 

now onto the two DPS trees for Guardian

 

Vigilance: Great damage, also good on the defences too. it though is hindered by knockbacks and stuns. doesnt take too much effort to play, but mastery is hard.

 

Focus: Like it's Sentnel counterpart, just with slightly better burst and single target damage. but still mostly a useless tree.

 

if your looking for in terms of highest to lowest potential damage ill list what i remember off the top of my head...

 

1. Combat Sentinel

2. Vigilance Guardian

3. Watchman Sentinel

4. Focus Guardian

5. Focus Sentinel

 

Edit: Shadows are fun, they can dish out ALOT of damage in both the Infiltration and Balance trees. but both are pretty hard to play, and require a full 36 points in the tree of your choice to really shine.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[GrandLordMenace]

I have played both a 55 Marauder of all specs, and a 51 Guardian of all specs. Ill start with Sent/Mara

 

Combat: Good Damage, IF you can master it. Otherwise, you will be hitting like a wet noodle.

 

Watchman: Great Damage, doesnt need too much mastery to play. I can play Watchman in my sleep practically.

 

Focus: Crappy damage, unless your in AOE heavy fights. otherwise, dont bother with Focus tree.

 

now onto the two DPS trees for Guardian

 

Vigilance: Great damage, also good on the defences too. it though is hindered by knockbacks and stuns. doesnt take too much effort to play, but mastery is hard.

 

Focus: Like it's Sentnel counterpart, just with slightly better burst and single target damage. but still mostly a useless tree.

 

if your looking for in terms of highest to lowest potential damage ill list what i remember off the top of my head...

 

1. Combat Sentinel

2. Vigilance Guardian

3. Watchman Sentinel

4. Focus Guardian

5. Focus Sentinel

 

Edit: Shadows are fun, they can dish out ALOT of damage in both the Infiltration and Balance trees. but both are pretty hard to play, and require a full 36 points in the tree of your choice to really shine.

 

Incorrect on some counts, Watchman is higher than Vigilance and Vigilance is higher than combat in PVE. Also Focus Sentinel is infinitely superior to Focus Guardian, as Focus Sents can near a 3.7 or 3.8 whereas Focus Guardian struggles to meet a 3.5. Focus Sentinel has far superior fillers.

 

Vigilance however is a good middle ground between combat and Watchman. Watchman is all bark and no bite with all that sustained DPS but **** mobility and burst, and Combat is all burst but no sustained. Vigilance is a melee turret with some burst and a sustainable reliable rotation.

[AoDay]

I have played both a 55 Marauder of all specs, and a 51 Guardian of all specs. Ill start with Sent/Mara

 

Combat: Good Damage, IF you can master it. Otherwise, you will be hitting like a wet noodle.

 

Watchman: Great Damage, doesnt need too much mastery to play. I can play Watchman in my sleep practically.

 

Focus: Crappy damage, unless your in AOE heavy fights. otherwise, dont bother with Focus tree.

 

now onto the two DPS trees for Guardian

 

Vigilance: Great damage, also good on the defences too. it though is hindered by knockbacks and stuns. doesnt take too much effort to play, but mastery is hard.

 

Focus: Like it's Sentnel counterpart, just with slightly better burst and single target damage. but still mostly a useless tree.

 

if your looking for in terms of highest to lowest potential damage ill list what i remember off the top of my head...

 

1. Combat Sentinel

2. Vigilance Guardian

3. Watchman Sentinel

4. Focus Guardian

5. Focus Sentinel

 

Edit: Shadows are fun, they can dish out ALOT of damage in both the Infiltration and Balance trees. but both are pretty hard to play, and require a full 36 points in the tree of your choice to really shine.

 

Vigilance guardians are the most mobile, with 4 seconds of cc immunity post leap, increased movement speed and 2 additional CCs.

[TACeMossie]

Incorrect on some counts, Watchman is higher than Vigilance and Vigilance is higher than combat in PVE. Also Focus Sentinel is infinitely superior to Focus Guardian, as Focus Sents can near a 3.7 or 3.8 whereas Focus Guardian struggles to meet a 3.5. Focus Sentinel has far superior fillers.

 

Vigilance however is a good middle ground between combat and Watchman. Watchman is all bark and no bite with all that sustained DPS but **** mobility and burst, and Combat is all burst but no sustained. Vigilance is a melee turret with some burst and a sustainable reliable rotation.

 

you sure the sents arent just geared better? cause last I checked:

Sent advantages: Twin Saber Throw for aoe, offhand for melee attacks, less focus cost on slash, +4% damage after Zen (~85% uptime)

Guard Advantages: Saber throw damage > TST, Stance gives +6% force damage (blade storm, force sweep, force exhaustion, force lash) that sents miss out on, and a +6% strength talent that sents miss out on.

 

Edit - Checked The Ebon Hawk leaderboards, probably where you got ya info from:

 

The guardian parse was back in march, while the sent one was this month. I highly doubt the sent was done without dread masters gear, while it was physically impossible for the guardian parse to use DM gear

Edited July 22, 2014 by TACeMossie

[GrandLordMenace]

you sure the sents arent just geared better? cause last I checked:

Sent advantages: Twin Saber Throw for aoe, offhand for melee attacks, less focus cost on slash, +4% damage after Zen (~85% uptime)

Guard Advantages: Saber throw damage > TST, Stance gives +6% force damage (blade storm, force sweep, force exhaustion, force lash) that sents miss out on, and a +6% strength talent that sents miss out on.

 

Edit - Checked The Ebon Hawk leaderboards, probably where you got ya info from:

 

The guardian parse was back in march, while the sent one was this month. I highly doubt the sent was done without dread masters gear, while it was physically impossible for the guardian parse to use DM gear

 

No the guardian on the leaderboard has more updated parses in the 3.4 but is waiting for more competition. That very same player also has a 3600 focus sentinel parse, but that one is beat out by one of our other guildies with a 3650. Note that I believe Don doesn't have a 186 offhand.

 

I was more referring to cauterize, as it does a BOATLOAD of damage. TST may be lower damage than saber throw but it contributes a large amount to AOE.

[GrandLordMenace]

Vigilance guardians are the most mobile, with 4 seconds of cc immunity post leap, increased movement speed and 2 additional CCs.

 

No, because Vigilance Guardian correctly played uses a melee channel every 10.5 seconds, so while the flash mobility and general crossing distances is fast, Vigilance Guardian has problems sustaining a rotation on a target rapidly moving.

Edited July 23, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[TACeMossie]

No the guardian on the leaderboard has more updated parses in the 3.4 but is waiting for more competition. That very same player also has a 3600 focus sentinel parse, but that one is beat out by one of our other guildies with a 3650. Note that I believe Don doesn't have a 186 offhand.

 

I was more referring to cauterize, as it does a BOATLOAD of damage. TST may be lower damage than saber throw but it contributes a large amount to AOE.

 

Ah so its a case of me underestimating the damage dealt by Cauterize without the buffs in the watchman tree.

Yeah that explains it (I remembered seeing ~3.65k dps focus sent parses back in 2.7, but that was with a 6/4/36 build that as far as I could tell was running off the double relics proc exploit)

[GrandLordMenace]

Ah so its a case of me underestimating the damage dealt by Cauterize without the buffs in the watchman tree.

Yeah that explains it (I remembered seeing ~3.65k dps focus sent parses back in 2.7, but that was with a 6/4/36 build that as far as I could tell was running off the double relics proc exploit)

 

Somewhat I think, it's about 5 percent of the damage, which is not wholly insignificant. O

 

ffhand attacks could contribute somewhat, not sure on the EXACT math of course and the lower accuracy as well as lower primary weapon damage would probably balance things, also Saber Throw isn't really used much in a Guardian Focus rotation, at least not by most due to it not reducing the CD on sweep. It's also far more resource inefficient, and to say inspiration didn't help a smidgen would be lying

 

TST also adds 5 % DPS as well, Saber Throw in the guardian rotation is only about 2 %. TST also slants favor into sentinel for pure aoe as well, as TST can hit unlimited targets in a forward direction.

Edited July 22, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[AoDay]

No, because Vigilance Guardian correctly played uses a melee channel every 3 seconds, so while the flash mobility and general crossing distances is fast, Vigilance Guardian has problems sustaining a rotation on a target rapidly moving.

 

That's what FF, Debilitation, and Shien are for. It's also impossible to main a rotation with MS every 3 seconds because you would need to build focus beyond the initiation and only PB and OS generate Zen Stacks.

[GrandLordMenace]

That's what FF, Debilitation, and Shien are for. It's also impossible to main a rotation with MS every 3 seconds because you would need to build focus beyond the initiation and only PB and OS generate Zen Stacks.

 

I mean every 10.5 seconds XD

[TACeMossie]

I mean every 10.5 seconds XD

 

I think you should have just said a 3 second channel every 6th attack.

[mastervalkar]

I think you should have just said a 3 second channel every 6th attack.

 

Should be able to pull off a reset Master Strike every 4th to 5th GCD if do it right. Every 3 GCDs, Master Strike should be reset based on Overhead and Plasma's CD timers, using Sundering Strike and Blade Storm (with 2 stacks) as fillers. Every other full rotation use Force Sweep as a filler. I try never to use Slash if I dont have to

[TACeMossie]

Should be able to pull off a reset Master Strike every 4th to 5th GCD if do it right. Every 3 GCDs, Master Strike should be reset based on Overhead and Plasma's CD timers, using Sundering Strike and Blade Storm (with 2 stacks) as fillers. Every other full rotation use Force Sweep as a filler. I try never to use Slash if I dont have to

 

10.5 seconds = 7 GCDs

Master strike = 2 GCDs

therefore, Master strike is every 6th attack. Any less than that, you're hitting a 9 second cooldown for it, which requires plasma brand on a 9 second cooldown.

[UrbanSaint]

Frow what i observed from playing both guardian and sentinel, the order of greatest dps to lowest of the two is:

 

1. watchmen Sentinel (great sustained dps, but lacks any real burst)

2. Vigilance Guardian (good balance between sustained and burst dps)

3. Combat Sentinel (great burst, but lacks any sustained dps and imho feels too RNG dependent)

 

Haven't played focus spec in over a year so i cant really comment on the potential for either class, but I can only think of like 3 fights in the entire game where Focus spec would be viable to even use. Also Jedi shadow dps is pretty fun and fairly easy, and recently got a nice buff to the Balance tree. Overall, I think sentinel is your best bet from a pure dps standpoint, but it comes down more to what class/spec you enjoy playing more. That will be the one you (theoretically) play the best

Edited July 23, 2014 by UrbanSaint

[GrandLordMenace]

Frow what i observed from playing both guardian and sentinel, the order of greatest dps to lowest of the two is:

 

1. watchmen Sentinel

2. Vigilance Guardian

3. Combat Sentinel

 

Haven't played focus spec in over a year so i cant really comment on the potential for either class, but I can only think of like 3 fights in the entire game where Focus spec would be viable to even use. Also Jedi shadow dps is pretty fun and fairly easy, and recently got a nice buff to the Balance tree. Overall, I think sentinel is your best bet from a pure dps standpoint, but it comes down more to what class you enjoy playing more. That will be the one you (theoretically) play the best

 

I know someone who only runs focus sentinel and does well with it. The on demand burst is very good and there is little to no RNG. If people can run infiltration in endgame PVE you can definitely run Focus Sentinel.

Edited July 23, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[mastervalkar]

10.5 seconds = 7 GCDs

Master strike = 2 GCDs

therefore, Master strike is every 6th attack. Any less than that, you're hitting a 9 second cooldown for it, which requires plasma brand on a 9 second cooldown.

 

You're right, I was forgetting my CD timers. It seems faster to me when I play

Edited July 23, 2014 by mastervalkar

[HemiHilliard]

Frow what i observed from playing both guardian and sentinel, the order of greatest dps to lowest of the two is:

 

1. watchmen Sentinel (great sustained dps, but lacks any real burst)

2. Vigilance Guardian (good balance between sustained and burst dps)

3. Combat Sentinel (great burst, but lacks any sustained dps and imho feels too RNG dependent)

 

Haven't played focus spec in over a year so i cant really comment on the potential for either class, but I can only think of like 3 fights in the entire game where Focus spec would be viable to even use. Also Jedi shadow dps is pretty fun and fairly easy, and recently got a nice buff to the Balance tree. Overall, I think sentinel is your best bet from a pure dps standpoint, but it comes down more to what class/spec you enjoy playing more. That will be the one you (theoretically) play the best

 

 

Thx for the info! I like the a lot of dps but I also like to have some Survivability also so that's another reason I was curious to explore the guardian I just didn't wanna sacrifice too much dps. And the shadow just seemed like it would be a fun class to play with the stealth aspect but wasn't sure how it ranks in dps. Would u say balance would be the way to go on the shadow or does infiltration still beat it?

[UrbanSaint]

Thx for the info! I like the a lot of dps but I also like to have some Survivability also so that's another reason I was curious to explore the guardian I just didn't wanna sacrifice too much dps. And the shadow just seemed like it would be a fun class to play with the stealth aspect but wasn't sure how it ranks in dps. Would u say balance would be the way to go on the shadow or does infiltration still beat it?

 

With the recent buff, Balance is the better tree overall for a shadow (good sustained dps with decent burst), but there are some fights where some good burst is good to have so Infiltration might be the better spec for that particular fight. To give you some idea, I currently parse about 300-400 dps lower in Infiltration than I do in Balance, and that's just from a respec'ing, not re-gearing :/. I love Infiltration but it currently falls behind a lot of other specs in this game as far as PvE viability, but people can still do really well with it. The spec was built more around PvP in mind.

Edited July 23, 2014 by UrbanSaint

[g_mK]

OK, I'll give my 2 cents on this. Some background main a sentinel and have both guardian and Juggernut. Also I raid NiM DF every week on my sentinel and with a fellow guardian.

In dummy parses (1.5 mill) specs will parse in the following order

Watchman

Vigilance

Combat/sentinel Focus

Guardian Focus

 

Now, dummy parses are just what they are, a static dps fight and may not reflect on real boss fights.

 

Apples to Apples, Focus vs Focus, all things being equal, sentinel focus will be higher than guardian focus.

 

Both classes are fun and they perform well in endgame pve content. I find sentinel to have more utility but this may or may not be necessary/useful depending on group. Like Rydarus said, Vigilance is a good compromise between Watchman and Combat having higher sustained dps than combat and better burst than watchman. Mobility wise, it would depend on how much your target is moving, I find that brontes burn down phase is harder on vigilance than watchman or combat. Watchman does suffer in fights where there is constant target switching, but this target switching must be done very rapidly (brontes comes to mind) Bestia for one does have target switching but you have enough time to properly put your DOT's on the boss/adds.

With the way specs dps/burst/mobility relates to each other right now I wouldn't say any of both classes has a decisive advantage over the other, with both being able to do every endgame content available.

[Adaliaya]

I would also keep in mind that fotm is very typical on Bioware's balancing, so "the best spec" can change quite rapidly. However, most of classes have at least one viable spec so I wouldnt worry too much

[mastervalkar]

I would also keep in mind that fotm is very typical on Bioware's balancing, so "the best spec" can change quite rapidly. However, most of classes have at least one viable spec so I wouldnt worry too much

 

I would not say that Vigilance Guardians are FOTM right now. Was there a change in the Sent vs Guardian numbers in favor of the Guardian? Yes, but I would say the real FOTM currently are Assault Spec Vanguards/Pyro PTs right now. VG/PT has the best combo of overall DPS and CC in PvP right now (at least in my opinion) and their DPS in end-game is soooo good right now running Assault/Pyro.

 

At the end of the day though, people will play what is the most comfortable to them. For me, the Guardian/Jugg for the Knight/Warrior class

Edited July 25, 2014 by mastervalkar

[Ardarell_Solo]

I'd say Sentinel is the more acrobatical class, while playing a Guardian feels more epic and is closer to the iconic "Star Wars" Jedi. DPS wise Sentinel is slightly ahead in its best performing specc Watchman, but if you can master Guardian's Vigilance, you're in a pretty good place now, too. Watchman is surely one of the speccs in the game that produces very good results, even if you're not that skilled. Learning curve on Vigilance Guardian and especially Combat Sent is much steeper.

 

In the end both ACs are close enough these days that I'd advise you to go for the class you find more appealing and that's simply more fun. Because that will make you push its limits :-)

 

Minor point to consider: Some raid leaders will still rather give their melee spots to Sents instead of any other class for Inspiration/Transcendence.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Ardarell_Solo