Why play a mara?

[Unperson]

I'll preface this by admitting that I'm a bad. I need to l2p, get to 100 valor on multiple toons, parse 6000 dps @ 50 APM, etc. I'll also add that my first and main is a Marauder, have never, ever specced into Rage, and have played all three roles in different classes. This is also specifically pertaining to unranked PVP. I don't do ranked or raids.

 

With that out of the way, maybe some of the goods can explain to me why anyone would choose a Marauder as their AC. I'm genuinely interested in the answer. This is not a troll or QQ thread. I'm not asking for buffs or nerfs, ranting against premades or whatever. I consider it a valid reason if folks like the mara simply because they consider it a badge of honor to play this class when the game heavily favors ranged and stealth classes.

 

The reason I'm asking is because the level of effort required to master the class (especially Carnage) and perform in WZs seems to me much higher and the rewards are lower than other classes'. I've read that I shouldn't expect to top damage charts or kill counts. I won't get the most medals or MVP votes. And I'm fine with that, I don't play this game to stroke my ego. But pulling my weight in a WZ is much harder than if I just play a healer or tank, or other DD classes, and my goal is to be the most *useful* player I can be and have fun while I'm at it. Standing helplessly and dying whitebarred time and again is conducive to neither.

 

Perhaps if I invest 10,000 hours I will accomplish that, but the impression I'm getting is that those hours would net better rewards if spent playing other class(es). The reasons have already been articulated much better than I could by far more experienced players, so that is not really the focus of the thread.

 

So, again, why play a mara?

Edited July 20, 2014 by Unperson

[MasterFeign]

Like the sorc, the mara can be difficult to master but quite rewarding when done well. In the current state, marauders are suffering a little less control in PvP situations, mostly due to the increase in slows, mezzes and roots (my observation anyway), that aren't affected by resolve. With that being said, if you have a healer on your team, playing as a marauder is definitely more tolerable. As well, well played marauders still bring great team utility, not just regulated to the use of bloothrist (among other things, marauders are great at annoying healers, as well as peeling for your own heals).

 

Their role in a WZ while no longer is to "zerg" into the action, they can be quite versatile, and when you play an appropriate play style, you can do great things.

 

Among other things, when I'm not being focused or CCed constantly, I can dish out just under 30k damage in around 3 GCDs. So I still think of my character as threatening, it just means I have to wait a little longer, sometimes (in the midst of a fight), to be able to get the DPS out.

[Unperson]

Yep. When not stunlocked or focused, guarded and with a healer keeping an eye on you, you *may* be able to harass healers. That's my experience as well. Killing them is another matter, though, as they can well stall for time by bubbling, stunning and rooting you, stealthing or whatever, until help arrives. And that is assuming no cross healing. Whereas if I were playing a merc, I could electro net them and pew pew from a safe distance, for instance, with better chances of success and less risk involved. And I could also self heal to some extent.

 

I'm not trying to antagonize you, but I honestly don't see what is rewarding or useful about harassing healers like that. A healer that has his hands full staying alive isn't healing their team, but in order to keep up the pressure I *need* a healer keeping an eye on me. So what am I bringing to the table exactly if I'm only harassing (as opposed to actually reliably killing) the healer, if our own healer needs to focus on me?

 

Is the marauder supposed to be a high skill cap, limited utility class with a steep learning curve that can only work with heavy team support? If that is the case, then so be it, but maybe this is something that should be included in the description when picking AC. I know what choice I would have made, considering that I have no interest in joining a guild.

 

Thanks for sharing, btw. I'm very much still learning the ropes and hopefully will gain a new perspective on the class, rather than just give up on it and roll fotm.

[MasterFeign]

I do believe the deniability the mara encounters is rather high, but not as exorbitantly high as the rest of the forum seems to make it out to be (this is partly in my judgement, due to most people being used to the smash class, and not having to worry about missing their main attack so much). I think the sorc and merc healers are where they should be, however, the operative healer has an ability that essentially allows for "evasion" to be up every 22.5 seconds, making it a bit more difficult to focus on them.

 

My thoughts on mara performance has more to do with the game mechanics in general, in that things like if mezzes/roots/slows were changed, I think maras would be considerably more viable, without having to affect damage output.

[chillshock]

Recently marauders start to get really focussed by anything that can stun. Because a 4 second stun and two dd is plenty to kill a fully geared marauder in pvp that receives no heal. And with the abundancy of those and the never-full-resolve... you CAN blow a stunbreaker... and possibly a camo to... get stunned again soon after.

 

It's the one huge weakness of the mara: stundeath. Stinks in every darn warzone (in arenas - and I don't like them because they are such a pointless mini-minigame copied from wow where they ruined the classes - it's not quite as bad, simple because there are LESS players). But in warzones... with the amount of assasin/shadows and ops/scounds and BH/Troopers? ... URGS.

 

So why play mara:

It is currently NOT fotm!

You get TWO glowsticks!

[JordainVentura]

Two sabers! I will say I share your frustrations. When i hit level 55 I logged off and didnt return to my Mara until after leveling 2 Agents and a BH to 55. The ability to help your party/group/team with Bloodthirst and Pred is a positive. I find my self trying to be an objective player (grab the hutball, defend doors, grab orbs).

 

I know your Q was based on PVP but you gotta get in those OPs groups. Nothing beats beating down a boss with dual glowbats

[Unperson]

Heh, yeah. The cool factor is definitely something. A big part of the problem is the lack of matchmaking in regs. I suppose this depends on the server, but for me it's common to be thrown in with 7 other -mostly ranged- DDs, with maybe the odd tank here and there. The rare healer is overworked as a result, and I suspect that many just aren't aware of the fact that many stuns can be cleansed. With a competent healer, survivability improves *a lot* (and therefore so does uptime and ability to wreck other players). This may explain why Bioware is wary about giving the class a better ability to survive on its own, and the reported popularity of maras in group ranked.

 

Sucks for those of us who queue solo, though. And for healers who have to watch over 7 other players. And for tanks who receive no heals. And...

 

Edit: as for utility in WZs, I sure could use some pointers. I've all but given up on grabbing the Huttball myself as it's a guaranteed stundeath most of the time (camo forces a ball reset, which is... hard to understand). Inability to push, pull or stun severely limits my ability to be a goal-oriented player in Huttball matches. The two roots help somewhat, but they are easily negated by the usual ball carriers.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Unperson

[JouerTue]

if theres a class that needs to be full brutalizer fully augmented is mara...i find carnage being viable and one spec actually capable to shut down a healer, or at least his healing output and the crosshealer's one eventually.

i find often that i'm getting focused, but i usually come back for the same guy if it's the case(he's tide turning the match)

try to focus the same target your teammates are dpsing, use your roots, slows, predation on kiters, cybertech grenades

[AngusFTW]

Why play a marauder?

3 viable pvp specs. 2/3 specs viable in pve all the time, 3/3 specs viable in pve situationally.

good defensive cds (cloak of pain, camo, saber ward, even undying rage can still save you if you use it properly)

good team utility (hallo bloodthirst and predation)

Highest single target burst in the game says hai - carnage. Wicked crazy sustained spec - anni, even rage is not bad...

Why NOT play a marauder?

just cause jugs have a ridiculous cd and more specs are viable doesn't make the class bad.. infact its still very good.

Edited July 22, 2014 by AngusFTW

[chillshock]

Why NOT play a marauder?

Stundeaths

Slows

Roots

Knockbacks

Knockdowns

... everywhere

 

But yeah. The most important part is probably: Mara is fun and fortunately not fotm right now.

[chillshock]

Nothing beats beating down a boss with dual glowbats

I used to mmorpg-raid from wow classic to cataclysm... No more of that. The 'yey-we-managed-to-beat-the-scripted-encounter' kind of turned into a 'I'm glad even the slowest replacement-for-whoever-is-sick-this-time made no mistake'. Also the motivation of doing a raid and seeing a bosskill vanished due to 'easy-peasy-mode-bosskills-for-everyone'. You know... it's just something sepcial to see a boss go down for the first time. If you've already done it once a week with randoms... MEH.

 

Now there's a job and a wife and a house and most certainly no 2-3 hours at a time to play.

 

Also: The utter ransomness of solo-queue is fun. It's so much more interesting not knowing at what level of profession your enemy is when the fight starts. Or meeting people you know that are good over and over again.

 

Yes, solo queue pvp hurts - especially with the "Oh look a mara-easy-kill! FOCUS!!!" class. (Have you ever noticed how even the dumbest of the dumb (sorry - nothing else fits the description) who DO NOT SEE THE GREEN LIGHTSABER OVER THE HEAD OF THE GREEN CASTING DUDE suddenly DO manage to focus something, if a sentinel shows up? I can only say: watch out for that behaviour - it's somewhat amusing. (especially if from the other team and the heal is so good he keeps me alive because he doesn't get focussed). I'm more protection to the healers than any guard + taunt: While I'm there, it's a 100% of the damage is transfered to the mara!

[Valzanik]

Carnage Burst. the end.

 

Jk but seriously Carnage one of the highest if not the highest burst class in the game. Most ranked teams run a combat sent/Carnage Marauder

[chillshock]

<personal opinion>

Honestly - who cares about arenas? They are a bad idea and balancing for them basically just destroys classes (see warcraft where you ended up with a yellow, a darkish and a brownish warriorthingy - and one who can stealth...). The only arena that should exist would require teams with one of each AC. No exceptions. THEN they could go and balance those teams and refine the roles.

 

Bio, please give us the queue that lets us players decide what pvp we want to queue for!

</personal opinion>

 

And outside of arenas mara/sent is pretty slow. get it? Slow... haha... no? not funny? hm... Stunner.

[OniGanon]

Why play a Marauder?

 

Because it's a Sith that dual-wields lightsabers and owns a Twilek slave girl.

 

If you need more reason than that, there's something wrong with you.

[Aluvi]

You can do well as Carnage in warzones. Anni is largely still a poor pvp spec. Rage was neutered, and while YES it still does a little bit more damage than Carnage, Carnage does far more single target, and more important, far far better burst, plus it has the ability to take down a tank like no other spec.

 

The thing is, Carnage has the highest skill cap of any spec in the game. It is very difficult to play perfectly. Good luck.

[chillshock]

Actually, I'm really enjoying anni in warzones. Until some smug root-slow kites me (WHY isn't that on resolve?), it feels really cool marauderish - reminds me why I played my first marauder back in the days. I always liked anni. I like it better than carnage.

Hm. Probably because I screw up the whole "gore window" thing ... or get it screwed up by one or more of the oponents. Really. WHO lets a carnage marauder do his gore window? Like ever? (Except for those you'd defeat without using gore at all, anyways).

 

I think that is one of the great parts of swtor and something the devs&designers definately managed to pull off well: The spec is to a huge extend actually a matter of taste and "whatever works for you". At least now that anni damage doesn't vanish anymore with a simple purge.

 

The mobility is still an issue with so many roots and snares being thrown around and being stunned is getting old really fast. 4 seconds without ANY button to work is really a LONG time. A time where on other classes at least some DCD work. If not passive resist present.

 

I still think that force camo is the KEY here, as it is definately not juggernaut.

Alternatively I'd always go for 'more elusive' and never into 'taking a beating'. That's for tanks.

 

So:

[Phantom Menace] Getting hit while slowed or rooted reduces the cooldown of force-camo by 1.5/3 seconds. Force Camo breaks movement impairing effects. - replaces Blood Ward.

and

[Kolto Injection (passive)] Marauders can use Stims and Adrenals while stunned.

and one more Idea:

[I find your lack of faith disturbing (passive)] Knockbacks increase the Range of Force Choke by 10m and causes this force-choke to break Cover Effects.

 

I think those three would actually be enough to make things work in pvp without messing up pve.

Edited August 4, 2014 by chillshock

[DomiSotto]

Mara/Sent is glam. It's the most appealing style. Nobody fights prettier. And when the palyer behind the facade is good, my lords and ladies, a mara is a wet dream even when he slaughters ye. (As a healing sage player I bear witness). Edited August 4, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Dasem]

I tried a Juggernaught. I was not impressed. Lore wise, I love single saber users. Dooku was one of the best duelists. But everything about the class simply seemed tanky. Even during Vengeance, and I was always starved for attacks because everything was on cool down. Yay, repeat the basic attack forever...

 

I made a Marauder just last night and I've never felt so invigorated by a class. From the pretty animations to the decimating damage, I'm really looking forward steamrolling over my enemies.

 

Looking at Annihilation, personally. Mostly because I have a +41 crit crystal account-wide and Annihilation seems to be the best route for crit advantage.

[Karkais]

The reason I'm asking is because the level of effort required to master the class (especially Carnage) and perform in WZs seems to me much higher and the rewards are lower than other classes'.

 

This right here is reason for some people. Some of them like the fact that winning requires skill.

 

I admit that I dont have much high-rated pvp experience from other classes, and my mara has always been carnage, even before maras were good. But carnage is extremely versatile offensive AC and strong enough. Its fun to play which is why I love it. Even though currently I never top the damage charts (I dont really have good enough gear yet, and I suspect it has more to do with AOE damage), I ALWAYS feel like I am doing my part. Enemies fall left and right and I can see them beaten back from objectives. If at the end I didn't do top damage, so be it, I still had fun.

 

They can leap to opponents, they can turn invisible, they can aoe sleep, they have multiple different immobs, they can free themselves of immob without counting the breakout that everyone has, they can force choke, they are masters of throwing lightsaber (3 diff skills), they have a skill that reduces your armor rating to exactly zero for few seconds, they can turn unkillable for few seconds, etc etc. They can do nearly everything (cant knockback unfortunately >_>)

 

And when you chain all of that together, ride the rush and see enemies turn into red mist, its awesome. Not to mention SW gets the most bad*** class story.

 

ps. I agree in that singlesaber users in this game are kinda meh. They are tanky, but lack that special 'oomph'.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Karkais

[Aluvi]

Veng Juggs put out just as much if not more damage than Carnage Maras in warzones now, assuming the jugg isn't terrible (and it's hard to be terrible at Veng, the rotation consists of all of 4 abilities). Their burst isn't quite as high, but their damage is far more consistent. They also don't really have to use assault to build rage, ever. Their heal to full cooldown is also amazingly good. If Juggs get that CD, undying rage needs to be reverted to it's original form and usable during stuns. Juggs also get a push which resets their leap. They have a friendly leap ability that gives them 8% hp and reduces damage taken, which is also a great way to get out of a bad spot. They can drop to Soresu and guard someone in huttball, or just run the ball as one of the best carriers in the game. Also, they are so slow paced compared to Carnage, which makes them far easier to play. I feel like Veng / Carnage skills should be merged into one super warrior tree =). Carnage with immunity for 4 seconds on leap would be aaaamazing. And I'll admit, probably super OP and the new FOTM.

[Unperson]

So, as I suspected, the most repeated reason is epeen, bragging rights or however you want to call it. Again, not trying to get on anyone's nerves here, so I apologize in advance. As I said in my first post, this isn't about ego stroking for me, so feeling great about myself for doing more to achieve less isn't reason enough. After leveling an Op and going through the gear grind, and doing some more rounds on my Guardian, I simply cannot think of anything the mara can do that other classes cannot do better, more reliably, and with less effort. The other reason folks have given is the second-to-none burst potential, and this is a valid reason backed by numbers -- even more so now that Carnage is no longer RNG based in 2.10. And that's really great but as the ancient Chinese proverb goes: "a dead man does no DPS".

 

So I guess I'll just forget about my main and become another FOTM scrub, as I have no interest in joining a PvP guild and queuing with a pocket healer and a tank.

 

Thanks all for your input.

[chillshock]

So I guess I'll just forget about my main and become another FOTM scrub, as I have no interest in joining a PvP guild and queuing with a pocket healer and a tank.

 

I am still fighting the urge to move to my (old) powerterch pyro and... do the same burst, just in range and with more surprise.

 

However: mara is style for me. TWO glowsticks.

 

And I have high hopes that there are going to be some additions to the 2.10 patchnotes.

[Cjirucha]

I am still fighting the urge to move to my (old) powerterch pyro and... do the same burst, just in range and with more surprise.

 

However: mara is style for me. TWO glowsticks.

 

And I have high hopes that there are going to be some additions to the 2.10 patchnotes.

 

You and me both. I feel like all the issues have already been beaten to death so now the only thing to do is wait for a response from the devs.