LordArtemis Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) The issue is not game mechanics IMO...the issue is that the game allows you to attack players that are flagged when you are not. On a PVE server this should not be the case IMO....you should have to flag yourself as PVP before you can target another player. Just my slant. Edited July 23, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) The issue is not game mechanics IMO...the issue is that the game allows you to attack players that are flagged when you are not. On a PVE server this should not be the case IMO....you should have to flag yourself as PVP before you can target another player. Just my slant. In other games if you intentional target another player on a PVE server you get a message that says in other words "you must raise or activate your PVP flag before engaging". That is what we need to avoid any conflict, if you are not flagged you CANNOT attack other players on a PVE server. And the player you are targeting must be already flagg him/herself. So even if you flag yourself you CANNOT attack those who are not flagged. Edited July 23, 2014 by Kantaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Look, I understand you're frustrated with getting flagged. That said, if the problem is with auto-target, then the best solution is to turn it off. I don't begrudge you the opportunity to request BW to change the way the system works, but at least in the meantime you could reduce your changes of falling prey to the bug? I haven't had this problem myself because I do exactly that. Doesn't mean I'm going to stand here and pretend like there's no issue at all like the rest of you guys are intent on doing. The only way changes happen is when people recognize they need to happen. Not when they make excuses for poor wannabe pvper behavior because "well you can just turn it off" or "stop being sloppy" or whatever the hell else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The same kind of arguments were used strenuously when Bioware was considering removing the AoE element of flagging. I believe the counter argument could be summed up as.... 1) Working as intended 2) If you want to avoid the flag turn off your AoE It seems that Bioware did not agree. Naturally, after the change was made the rage was noteworthy. There is a reason AoE exists, there is a reason autotarget exists. Shutting off normal game mechanics to prevent PVP oriented players from having the ability to grief PVE players is not the solution IMO. Preventing PVP oriented players from griefing PVE players in ANY way is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Easy solution dont allow PVP flagging on PVE servers. Period. If you feel like PVPeing move to a PVP server. Or do the PVP alternatives already created in game. Huttball etc, etc Edited July 23, 2014 by Kantaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I haven't had this problem myself because I do exactly that. Doesn't mean I'm going to stand here and pretend like there's no issue at all like the rest of you guys are intent on doing. "The rest of you guys are intent on doing". Really? I've been pretty even-keeled on the subject. I even took the time to trying and verify some of the complaints about PvP flagging. Sounds like you're just here for a forum fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Apparently some of you guys don't even know how the game works. And yet you're defending it. With auto-target on (and it is by default) if I hit an attack key with no target it not only targets the next valid target in range, but it performs said attack on them. All with ONE button press. It makes the decision for you to flag you. Perhaps now you can see where the issue is with flagged players. No lol, the issue is that you're being LAZY, SLOPPY and INATTENTIVE! Pay attention, target the next mob yourself...I have auto target off since beta because it works terribly and I want to KNOW what I'm targeting. Play the game, stop being a number presser, get involved and take responsibility for what YOU attack. If it's a player because of your sloppy play, don't whine to Bioware about it...they've done all they need to on this issue. This is a player created issue and player created drama as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 No lol, the issue is that you're being LAZY, SLOPPY and INATTENTIVE! Pay attention, target the next mob yourself...I have auto target off since beta because it works terribly and I want to KNOW what I'm targeting. Play the game, stop being a number presser, get involved and take responsibility for what YOU attack. If it's a player because of your sloppy play, don't whine to Bioware about it...they've done all they need to on this issue. This is a player created issue and player created drama as far as I'm concerned. I agree with you, but why have PVP toggler in a PVE server? LIke I said before you want PVP roll a character in a PVP server. Simple as that, automatically remove PVP flag and you will never have a problem or abuse created by those who look to grief other players in a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I agree with you, but why have PVP toggler in a PVE server? LIke I said before you want PVP roll a character in a PVP server. Simple as that, automatically remove PVP flag and you will never have a problem or abuse created by those who look to grief other players in a game. Are you under the impression that nobody on a PvE server enjoys PvP? Or that the ONLY thing that happens on a PvP server is PvP? The toggle is there...it's your target box. Watch it. Use it. Pay attention to it. You're looking for a PvPless server...those don't exist. I'm not a fan of being able to target flagged players and blindsiding them, I'd prefer a system that allows you to see them coming in some form...I also don't condone what these jackholes do...it's not "PvP", it's greifing. But the tools are there to avoid flagging yourself...use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I agree with you, but why have PVP toggler in a PVE server? LIke I said before you want PVP roll a character in a PVP server. Simple as that, automatically remove PVP flag and you will never have a problem or abuse created by those who look to grief other players in a game. Because not everyone wants to be PVP 24/7 Now ultimately the flag system is a failed system. We really need the RVR system implemented by Mythic in early DAoC Can be no mistake with that system You enter a RVR area, you are agreeing to RVR/PVP You dont enter, you will never see PVP (unless you accept a duel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I do plenty PVP on my server, you know, huttball, etc etc, is not that enough? To me doing PVP in group is better than roaming alone around the maps trying to screw up a PVE player. And lets be honest and remove the pretender maks, those who intentionally go after a PVE player doing quests to try to flag them are a bunch of jackholes. They are doing this intentionally, when I quest and another player comes close I just move and go do something else, I try no to bother anyone. So c'mon lets be honest. Edited July 23, 2014 by Kantaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebevo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Easy solution dont allow PVP flagging on PVE servers. Period. If you feel like PVPeing move to a PVP server. Or do the PVP alternatives already created in game. Huttball etc, etc Yeah it isn't like people can enjoy playing the entire game. All of them only play one or the other, but not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 You dont enter, you will never see PVP (unless you accept a duel) Do that and you'll see players complaining about being "tricked" into PvP by fake trade windows popping up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I do plenty PVP on my server, you know, huttball, etc etc, is not that enough? To me doing PVP in group is better than roaming alone around the maps trying to screw up a PVE player. I don't think anyone here is defending the griefing that is happening, but sometimes players like to roam around with that extra bit of "danger", like on Oricon or Ilum...not knowing if you should attack or run...it can be fun to some people (myself included) to have a little more risk than NPCs that I should NEVER die to in the open world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Yeah it isn't like people can enjoy playing the entire game. All of them only play one or the other, but not both. are you been sarcastic? I play both styles, when I want to PVP I go to the PVP area, like I mentioned several times, Hutball, etc etc, so c'mon anyone trying to justify the attitude of jackholes are jackholes themselves. And again we are talking to those who intentional trying to get PVE players flagged. Is not abouyt just a little bit of fear, it is about going out of your way to grief, gank and aggravate another player who chose a PVE server to avoid this same problem. Edited July 23, 2014 by Kantaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 are you been sarcastic? I play both styles, when I want to PVP I go to the PVP area, like I mentioned several times, Hutball, etc etc, so c'mon anyone trying to justify the attitude of jackholes are jackholes themselves. So are you trying to say that EVERYONE who PvPs in the open world is a "jackhole"??? Warzones SUCK! I MUCH prefer open world to freaking e-sports...I'm not alone in that opinion either. PvP isn't limited to only certain areas thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kantaso Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) So are you trying to say that EVERYONE who PvPs in the open world is a "jackhole"??? Warzones SUCK! I MUCH prefer open world to freaking e-sports...I'm not alone in that opinion either. PvP isn't limited to only certain areas thank God. If you want Open World go to a PVP server. We PVE players chose a PVE server to avoid people that are gankers, griefers and e-peeners. SWTOR provides PVE servers and PVP servers, you choose the style of game according with the rules. People who are trying to bypass the rules to aggravate other players need to be removed from the game. Edited July 23, 2014 by Kantaso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 "The rest of you guys are intent on doing". Really? I've been pretty even-keeled on the subject. I even took the time to trying and verify some of the complaints about PvP flagging. Sounds like you're just here for a forum fight. That's apparently all this is when people are throwing out the "sloppy" and whatever crap instead of acknowledging systems aren't working the way they should. If I am not flagged, I should not be auto-flagged because someone runs in front of me. Guess what, that happens right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 If you want Open World go to a PVP server. We PVE players chose a PVE server to avoid people that are gankers, griefers and e-peeners. SWTOR provides PVE servers and PVP servers, you choose the style of game according with the rules. People who are trying to bypass the rules to aggravate other players need to be removed from the game. PvE servers are not PvPless servers...according to the game rules. Stop being lazy and target your intended target. Report the griefers and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That's apparently all this is when people are throwing out the "sloppy" and whatever crap instead of acknowledging systems aren't working the way they should. If I am not flagged, I should not be auto-flagged because someone runs in front of me. Guess what, that happens right now. Wait, so now all a person needs to do is run in front of you to flag themselves? Is that seriously what you're saying? Come on lol. Until YOU target AND attack them, you aren't flagged...unless you're sloppy and ignoring your target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Wait, so now all a person needs to do is run in front of you to flag themselves? Is that seriously what you're saying? Come on lol. Until YOU target AND attack them, you aren't flagged...unless you're sloppy and ignoring your target. Those aren't always two separate actions and it's incredibly easy to do, Mr. Perfect. Edited July 23, 2014 by hadoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) If I am not flagged, I should not be auto-flagged because someone runs in front of me. Guess what, that happens right now. I don't believe you. I tried this with AOE attacks and was unable to get flagged. Can you actually reproduce this exploit on demand? If you can reproduce it, please detail how it happens and I will go try it myself. Edited July 23, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It appears a consensus is brewing that griefing jackholes are now simply jackholes, not PVPers. May word spread on the winds to the ears of all idiots who use the generic term "PVPer" to label evildoers perpetrating such jackholery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Those aren't always two separate actions and it's incredibly easy to do, Mr. Perfect. Thank you...but I do have my flaws...not many, but like one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I don't believe you. I tried reproducing this with AOE attacks and was unable to do so. Can you actually reproduce this exploit on demand? If you can reproduce it, please detail how it happens and I will go try it myself. Have auto target on, have someone flagged run in front of you while you don't have a target, and hit an attack. The system has just decided you want to be ganked (when chances are you wanted to hit another mob in range, like you had been doing the last 50 levels) because someone flagged ran in front of you (knowing exactly what would happen). What should happen is a "no target in range" error or whatever error you typically get if you hit an attack and there's nothing to shoot. This should happen unless you are flagged yourself (or click/tab target them). Edited July 23, 2014 by hadoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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