hadoken Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 That sort of baiting should be actionable on a PVE server. I can't recall what MMO it was but there was one I played where on PVE servers your AE attacks did not flag you. You had to manually flag yourself if you wanted to engage in PVP. No attack flagging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 That's rather poor form for a PvE server but it's also against the forum rules to name and shame people here. I can't help but wonder if the lack of new PvE content is driving people to boredom and when people get bored this sort of behaviour seems to increase. no the absolute terrible and boring Warzones are driving people to do this stuff Lets not CREATE excuses for the root cause. If this game had real RVR style PVP, you would never hear about this happening in PVE zones. But it doesnt, it has the $$$$fest called warzone pvp so real pvpers find themselves TRYING to create PVP encounters in the playable world. As for OP, hes being a bit overly dramatic honestly For some time now the PVPers on both sides have been facing each other on Oricon in faction vrs faction pvp encounters. I know there is some bug that can flag you but running through their aoes (or them running through yours) no longer flags you. With a little restraint and common sense you can survive the battle area unflagged and continue on your pve in the rest of Oricon. Truth is, is Oricon was a larger land mass map, the PVPers could find out of the way locations to battle. I admit Ive join in on this PVP content a couple times now and had great fun (far more then I ever had in a warzone) and other times I've just skirted around them and gone about my bussiness on Oricon, no harm/no foul. But this is only going to get worse in more locations as long as Warzone junk PVP remains the official supported style of pvp for SW:TOR. EA needs to bring out the RVR content so each side can fight over bases (in the real world and not some time based instance) in a RVR setting that doesn't interrupt the PVE crowds. Illum (the pvp portion of illum) was suppose to be that originally but Illum was massively under utilized and under supported at launch and beyond. This has nothing to do with lacking PVE content. This has everything to do with lacking RVR style PVP content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 no the absolute terrible and boring Warzones are driving people to do this stuff Lets not CREATE excuses for the root cause. So you are convinced that the people participating are all staunch pvp'ers? I don't buy it, I bet there's lots of pve'ers in there as well. However, I can see your reasoning being another reason that makes sense. Bottom line is still that people get bored and start griefing others. It happens in real life as well and it's a sad commentary on your personality when you let yourself go like that, no matter the reason. But please do explain how being bored in pvp is a reason and being bored in pve is an excuse? I find that distinction you make there most remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 They didn't create it they just copied it like all MMOs do. My point stands. Players are using the tools they are given well within the tos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I don't mind people pvp'ing but you know as well as I that people know tricks to sucker pve'ers into it and they use those tricks on purpose to pester people. It's that attitude that is the problem. I neither presume to know nor care why any particular PvPer does this. I regard avoiding being flagged for PvP during the Gree or Rhakghoul events as just another mini-game to play as part of the events. Call it player-created content if you like. Sometimes I lose and get flagged, but usually I win and can go about my business. I think a little advice on how to cope is going to be more productive than complaining about a part of the game that has been here for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 It's not using the system, it's exploiting it. Anyone knows that the flag system is not that great but that the idea on a pve server is still that pvp should be consentual. Exploiting the weakness of the system to go against the core idea of a pve server is not using but abusing the system and therefore an exploit. It's hard to prove for BW if someone did it on purpose or not I guess but we all know damn well people do it on purpose. I agree it should be a two party consent for pvp. But it is still using the system in place! It is flawed, but working as it was implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I agree it should be a two party consent for pvp. But it is still using the system in place! It is flawed, but working as it was implemented. I guess my point is that working as implemented is not the same as working as intended. Exploits are generally working as implemented right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) That sort of baiting should be actionable on a PVE server. Then BioWare should remove the open-world PvP achievements from the PvE servers, rather than encouraging people to do actionable things. But at present, they have not. Edited July 19, 2014 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I think a little advice on how to cope is going to be more productive than complaining about a part of the game that has been here for a long time. I am not complaining about a part of the game. I am commenting on how people abuse that part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I guess my point is that working as implemented is not the same as working as intended. Exploits are generally working as implemented right? Exactly! The mechanic is working as intended to work. The actual use in this case, I imagine not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Keep in mind that BW can, and has, put sanctuary zones on Oricon where (if I understand it correctly) this cannot happen. They could have made the whole planet a sanctuary zone, but they didn't. So allowing this open world PvP on Oricon on PvE servers was a choice BW made. Edited July 19, 2014 by BuriDogshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Exactly! The mechanic is working as intended to work. The actual use in this case, I imagine not? Well and there we disagree. It's not working as intended, most likely because the system as it is can't do what it's supposed to do. It's the best they can do atm but it's still not what it should be. I think it's strange to think that BW wants people to be able to sucker others into PvP on a PvE server. That's just twisting the reality to what you want to see. There are PvE and PvP servers and that's the point of a PvE server. Just cause BW and their Hero engine can't manage a decent system, doesn't mean you should interpret that as fair usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shyroman Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) Then BioWare should remove the open-world achievements from the PvE servers, rather than encouraging people to do actionable things. But at present, they have not. That would be a bad move by bioware imo, just in the past week there have been 2 relatively large owpvp battles on oricon on Jedi Covenant. They have been very fun for the parties involved and removing incentives would just kill pvp more in this game. And no, there were not just pvpers, there were plenty of just pvers there as well taking part. Edited July 19, 2014 by shyroman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Re: "BioWare should remove the open-world achievements from the PvE servers, rather than encouraging people to do actionable things." That would be a bad move by bioware imo. Even though I do not do open-world PvP to any real extent, I tend to agree. As I said, avoiding open world PvP in areas it is allowed is just another mini-game to me. Keeps things interesting. Learning how to occasionally laugh and smile when I wipe improved my enjoyment of SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 In your opinion. the respnse could be pve'ers entering wz's and intentionally losing them. would you like that? 10 wz's for every time a pve'er is auto flagged seems about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurin Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 I play on The Harbinger. I am *mostly* a PVEr. I do however, do some PVP. On raid night, as I'm waiting for the group to form up, if there are flagged people anywhere near the start of DF/DP, I'm going to flag myself and get some kills in, as will a couple of the other people in my ops group. In fact, if there aren't any flagged folks around I'm a little disappointed that I just have to stand around and wait, in which case I often resort to the tedium of banging out a couple of dailies. Since dieing takes literally 5 seconds to come back from, and costs me absolutely no repair bill, I don't give 2 flying rats if I "win" or "lose". The PVP is entertaining me, when otherwise I would just be standing around. I do not, however, roam around the open world part of Oricon, flagged, looking for someone to make a mistake and attack me. All of my PVP takes place in the area between the door of DF and the speeder. It's actually a pretty small amount of space and literally anyone, flagged or not, should be able to get from 1 spot to the other if they have their mind set on avoiding the conflict. Out in the open world of Oricon, if I were to accidentally get flagged (for which I'm pretty sure I need to do a direct damage attack on a flagged person), and I decided I didn't like being flagged any longer, I'd simply go back to "base" and wait out the 5 minute timer. Possibly q up for KDY or (egads) PVP to do something else "productive" while waiting out the timer. As well, there's a high likelihood on Oricon that there are two instances. Just switch instances and even flagged you'll probably be left alone. Anyway, there are simply too many ways for a primarily PVEr to deal with the "issue" that I personally find the occasional open world PVP to be a refreshing change of pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceCorporalDan Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Well and there we disagree. It's not working as intended, most likely because the system as it is can't do what it's supposed to do. It's the best they can do atm but it's still not what it should be. I think it's strange to think that BW wants people to be able to sucker others into PvP on a PvE server. That's just twisting the reality to what you want to see. There are PvE and PvP servers and that's the point of a PvE server. Just cause BW and their Hero engine can't manage a decent system, doesn't mean you should interpret that as fair usage. I think I may not have been clear. I meant the system they put in is technically working. Ie you flag for pvp, somebody hits you, and you can hit them back. But it is flawed in the sense that it can be used in ways not orginally intended such as accidentally hitting a flagged player and auo flagging yourself in the process. Which is why I think a two party flagging requirement would work better to avoid any fuss. The way I would have designed it is for both players to flag for pvp, then all is fair... If only one is flagged and they hit an unflagged player with an aoe, nothing happens... And visa versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 But please do explain how being bored in pvp is a reason and being bored in pve is an excuse? I find that distinction you make there most remarkable. already did explain my post in full Sorry if you didnt grasp it but the answer is already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngelRiku Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Server: Harbinger West Coast PvE Planet: Oricon PvPers in both factions are deliberately flagging PvP then running into a PvE'ers AOE and flagging them for PvP so to prevent them from completing ANY PvE Quest or Daily. I am on a PvE Server because I do not wish to PvP. If I wished to PvP I would have rolled a Character on a PvP Server. PvPers are making me want to cancel my account, and my guild members are thinking of doing the same thing. Please BioWare FIX IT NOW. Solution to your problem is simple OP. Buy some damn PvP gear so the ganking isn't so one sided. Quit complaining about stuff like this. PvP is part of the game, the two factions are in a war for crying out loud. If you were stupid enough to get your PvP flag triggered by walking into a flagged person's AoE, that's on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Server: Harbinger West Coast PvE Planet: Oricon PvPers in both factions are deliberately flagging PvP then running into a PvE'ers AOE and flagging them for PvP so to prevent them from completing ANY PvE Quest or Daily. I am on a PvE Server because I do not wish to PvP. If I wished to PvP I would have rolled a Character on a PvP Server. PvPers are making me want to cancel my account, and my guild members are thinking of doing the same thing. Please BioWare FIX IT NOW. I don't really PvP but I think it's funny when this happens. Get a group together via gen chat and fight em, it's way more fun than the PvP you get from the queues and you actually might like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Then BioWare should remove the open-world PvP achievements from the PvE servers, rather than encouraging people to do actionable things. But at present, they have not. I'm not sure how you drew the line from "forcing someone into a PVP situation that didn't want it" to "encouraging world PVP on a PVE server". They're two completely different things. Those achievements weren't created with the goal of tricking PVE players into PVP to get killed and feed the achievement seekers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 One solution to the issue is to add a toggle so that PvE players would not be able to do ANYTHING that would flag them for PvP. If something, like healing a flagged player, were attempted...it wouldn't work. Damage a PvP flagged player? Nope, no go. They'd have to turn the toggle off to be able to flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanhedgehog Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Solution to your problem is simple OP. Buy some damn PvP gear so the ganking isn't so one sided. Quit complaining about stuff like this. PvP is part of the game, the two factions are in a war for crying out loud. If you were stupid enough to get your PvP flag triggered by walking into a flagged person's AoE, that's on you. you can also que for a wz and quit out as soon as you get in. that will unflag you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorsaLindahl Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 This was supposedly fixed early 2012. The only way to flag, through AoE damage, was to directly attack a flagged player. AoE "splash damage" should not cause someone to become flagged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 (edited) This has happened since the beginning and even though people say it has been fixed, not all instances of this has been fixed. It has happened to me and I don't pvp and will not pvp as pvp does not interest me. Lucky for me when this has happened I am on my shadow and can cloak and then move out of the way and then qt either back to the base or to my ship, but not everyone has stealth that can do this. PVP flags should turned on by both players and no way should AOE flag someone that is not flagged. Even in SWG you could not flag someone by using an AOE on an unflagged person so yes it is very possible. And for the person that said we should get pvp gear, why? If someone is not going to pvp why in the world would they want pvp gear, that is almost as bad as telling you that you have to stay in a roleplay area and roleplay when you don''t want to or like to. People like different things and no one should have to have gear for pvp if they are not going to pvp. The flag system should be fixed where no AOE can flag someone. Edited July 19, 2014 by ScarletBlaze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts