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I made that post on reddit, and it's not a 1%'er blowing through content problem. I'm sick of reading that from fanboys.

 

Our guild was not hard core. We did not spend more than 3-4 hours a week raiding progression, and we never blew through HM in a month. We were just a regular group of dedicated gamers who ran a even-keeled guild and enjoyed the game. Everything about the alts, the progression, the valor, and the credits may seem like insane person online 24-7 but it's not even close to that. You can get a lot done if you play a few nights a week for 3 years. With no new raids, no new daily zones, and no new content except a couple ****** tactical flash-points you will kill the game for long time subscribers who are mostly casual in their end game approach.

 

The truth is that Bioware can't monetize raids and they take too much time to develop vs. reskinning armor that's been in the game for 3 years and then selling it for 5 dollars. I understand that they'll do a lot with the Cartel Market but they're disrespecting the subscribers who have been there for them since launch with these inexcusable PvE content cycles.

Very good post. I agree completely with you on it.

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I made that post on reddit, and it's not a 1%'er blowing through content problem. I'm sick of reading that from fanboys.

 

Our guild was not hard core. We did not spend more than 3-4 hours a week raiding progression, and we never blew through HM in a month. We were just a regular group of dedicated gamers who ran a even-keeled guild and enjoyed the game. Everything about the alts, the progression, the valor, and the credits may seem like insane person online 24-7 but it's not even close to that. You can get a lot done if you play a few nights a week for 3 years. With no new raids, no new daily zones, and no new content except a couple ****** tactical flash-points you will kill the game for long time subscribers who are mostly casual in their end game approach.

 

The truth is that Bioware can't monetize raids and they take too much time to develop vs. reskinning armor that's been in the game for 3 years and then selling it for 5 dollars. I understand that they'll do a lot with the Cartel Market but they're disrespecting the subscribers who have been there for them since launch with these inexcusable PvE content cycles.

 

agree!

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I made that post on reddit, and it's not a 1%'er blowing through content problem. I'm sick of reading that from fanboys.

 

Our guild was not hard core. We did not spend more than 3-4 hours a week raiding progression, and we never blew through HM in a month. We were just a regular group of dedicated gamers who ran a even-keeled guild and enjoyed the game. Everything about the alts, the progression, the valor, and the credits may seem like insane person online 24-7 but it's not even close to that. You can get a lot done if you play a few nights a week for 3 years. With no new raids, no new daily zones, and no new content except a couple ****** tactical flash-points you will kill the game for long time subscribers who are mostly casual in their end game approach.

 

The truth is that Bioware can't monetize raids and they take too much time to develop vs. reskinning armor that's been in the game for 3 years and then selling it for 5 dollars. I understand that they'll do a lot with the Cartel Market but they're disrespecting the subscribers who have been there for them since launch with these inexcusable PvE content cycles.

 

/agree

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Devs need to be aware of that reddit thread because there hasn't been anyone saying this on the game's forums.

It's like all the gripes from the past 6 months have been copy pasted to a different site and you are directing traffic there, no... really... that's what it's like.

 

Here's an actual synopsis of what this thread's contents include (complete with vintage video game soundtrack):

 

BTW, that's not to say I disagree with the ideas expressed. But seriously, how much do you all expect to accomplish apart from some fleeting catharsis or vicarious affirmation through people who can just do things like type out "/agree"?

 

I know you're all aware but I'll say it anyway, content release is not some magical thing that happens after a certain number of threads about lack of content are created. Maybe I've just been doing this sort of thing for too long but at least I know when a waste of effort is actually wasted.

 

Carry on.

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3.0 will mark the last major content the old team worked on. Up until this point, this new crew has just been updating or modifying content already in the pipleline from the original crew, minus strongholds, which is the first major update this team created solely on their own.

 

You have the president of EA saying they want to be player first, and yet we've had no significant new Player story content that doesn't involve a flashpoint or daily area since Makeb, and nothing really immersive and meaningful to your player's story since the class stories of the original release, DESPITE more class story being #1 on the wishlists of SWTOR's current and former players in polls, cantina crawls, and just about every other metric EAWare tries to bury.

 

The game has a solid enough core and CAN be turned around. However, it needs MORE staff to work out bugs and increase release timing, and quite frankly, needs a new vision and direction than what the current producer got put here to do, which was anything BUT what the game was based on - STORY.

 

They need new leadership - one that can marry the story-driven vision of the old team with the business sensibilities of the current producer. There needs to be a middle ground.

 

My fear is this isn't going to happen. I have a feeling 3.0 will be the last major story release of this game, and then, they will simply be exactly what they have been to this point - a game borrowing against the work of the people that originally made it, releasing half-baked features over months instead a solid release date, and milking every last thing knowing they don't have anything else of significance or relevance to fall back on anymore now that 3.0 is done and the original material has been bled dry.

 

EAware has done NOTHING to dissuade me of this opinion, and people white-knighting for the game against my criticisms have proven themselves naïve as the game has continued down this path to irrelevance.

 

I don't say all these unkind words to troll. I say them because I care about this game, what it was on release, and that it has gone astray in the core story department it was sold on, and that's what makes it different than any MMO out there. I care because there's still time to right the ship, and it doesn't change if you blow smoke up the devs' rear ends over mundane changes, buggy and grossly drawn out releases and unimaginative updates.

 

I want EA to make me eat these words. But to any white knights out there - EA is the ONLY ones who can - them and Bioware. You championing them is just you fanboi-ing. You don't work for the game. You don't produce results.

 

I love this game and want it to work. But there's been enough blown chances and missed opportunities that Bioware and EA doesn't get my faith any more. They need to step up and prove it FIRST. They need to EARN my loyalty and dollars back. Because its their mismanagement that has driven them off in the first place.

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I didn't read the reddit thing. I don't think that it really matters, but I just wanted to get that disclaimer out of the way.

 

Fortunately, not every player is an "endgame" player. In fact, "end game" players are generally not the majority in any MMO. For a game that is two and a half years old, SWTOR has as much, if not more "end game" content than any other MMO at that point in its lifespan. As much as players like to ignore the fact, you cannot compare 4, 8, 10, 15, or 20 years of content and development to 1, 2, or 3 years of content or development.

 

But the reality is that TOR is competing with other things for people's entertainment dollar, and fair or not, those things include MMOs that have had more development time.

 

There's no magic here. It takes time and money to develop content. But if TOR at least gives players the feeling that they are going to get quality content in the future, that the game is growing, then it seems to me that players are more likely to stick around.

 

And if players stick around? That should lead to more money for the game, both through subs and the cartel market.

 

=============

 

WoW survives in part on sheer momentum. People play and continue to play WoW simply because they have played WoW.

It's where they have their characters and guilds and online friends that they have spent so much time with.

Edited by Mithros
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Kind of a circle jerk going on here...

 

The majority of players never achieve what that redditor is talking of - 5 fully-gear alts - because most people don't have the incredible amount of spare time that requires. The "hardcore" raiders (a laughable term compared to what it used to mean in old games: permadeath) need to understand that they are the minority, always will be the minority, and need to recognize the pattern here: in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. Get it through your heads, just because you ran the race ten times faster than Joe Public, that doesn't mean it makes sense for a game studio to try to crank out content at a rate sufficient to please you.

 

You may now return to your regularly scheduled complaint session.

 

Annnnnd thread.

 

Honestly I think they don't even really know what they want out of this game. End game is kind of lacking on the PvE as well as PvP fronts. Queues are way to long for both FP/Ops and Warzones. People are just rerolling classes for the story and not really end gaming(?). Not sure how GSF is doing, not including the double rewards event going on, in terms of queues popping. But all they really need to do there is possibly add joysticks of some sort. 99 problems and Bioware can't wrestle one of them right now.

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Annnnnd thread.

 

Honestly I think they don't even really know what they want out of this game. End game is kind of lacking on the PvE as well as PvP fronts. Queues are way to long for both FP/Ops and Warzones. People are just rerolling classes for the story and not really end gaming(?). Not sure how GSF is doing, not including the double rewards event going on, in terms of queues popping. But all they really need to do there is possibly add joysticks of some sort. 99 problems and Bioware can't wrestle one of them right now.

 

 

If only we were hard core that quote would be valid, but we're not. We just played the game and now there's been nothing to do for 10 months. It's not a hard core problem, it's a casual been playing since launch problem.

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If only we were hard core that quote would be valid, but we're not. We just played the game and now there's been nothing to do for 10 months. It's not a hard core problem, it's a casual been playing since launch problem.

 

By your own words:

but we are a pre-launch guild from AoC with a mix of casual and hard core nights that was always top 5 IMP side progression on Ordo and then Covenant.

 

At our peak we were 16 EC/TFB HM clears with a pool of 25 solid raiders

 

You have an odd definition of "casual". Casual maybe... by WoW or EQ definition... but not by any means casual for this MMO.

 

And to note:

ever since it's been been downhill with the lull in new raiding and daily zones culminating in barely being able to put together 8 once a week for DF NiM

 

You can't hold a casual guild together because the hard core raiding sucks? :rolleyes: That is precisely what happens when you recruit for a particular segment of game play that is not fed by the MMO to your desired needs.

 

Just be honest. You want permission to leave to play something else because you are for whatever reason, not having fun (as you define fun). Yet you are apparently still enjoying the game at a personal level, so maybe find yourself a new guild that better meets your personal needs. Or better yet... try some of the greener grass on the other side of the fence. You can always come back to SWTOR later when they release content you crave.

Seems like with Wildstar, and maybe ESO (for some), it's just time to move on despite how fun the game can be and how polished and fully featured it's become the past 2.5 years. Seems very bleak; and we can't be the only guild in the same spot?

 

Thing is.. you don't need anyone's permission but your own.

 

And yes... other guilds are in the same spot in some cases....because they want more of something then the game is offering. But you know what..... having played different MMOs for years... your complaint is not new.... nor novel. I've seen it in every MMO gaming forum, including WoW.

 

Guilds flounder for a lot of reasons. Since you brought a guild over from AoC.. and it has since withered... then maybe go wherever the rest of them went... so you can have fun instead of complaining and being unhappy.

 

Be reasonable with yourself. You cannot complain content into an MMO. It either meets your requirements or it does not. Personally, I have yet to see an MMO that meets all my requirements. But I don't complain about it, I simply expand my MMO play... playing a couple or three at a time... each for it's strengths and as it suits my personal mood. I am guilded in three different MMOs right now.. and I spend time in each... playing what I enjoy and avoiding anything that does not meet my requirements. You can do the same.. which would empower your play time and fun, rather then pretending like you are being slighted by the MMO company because the content they release is not what you prefer.

Edited by Andryah
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By your own words:

 

 

You have an odd definition of "casual". Casual maybe... by WoW or EQ definition... but not by any means casual for this MMO.

 

And to note:

 

 

You can't hold a casual guild together because the hard core raiding sucks? :rolleyes: That is precisely what happens when you recruit for a particular segment of game play that is not fed by the MMO to your desired needs.

 

Just be honest. You want permission to leave to play something else because you are for whatever reason, not having fun (as you define fun). Yet you are apparently still enjoying the game at a personal level, so maybe find yourself a new guild that better meets your personal needs. Or better yet... try some of the greener grass on the other side of the fence. You can always come back to SWTOR later when they release content you crave.

 

 

Thing is.. you don't need anyone's permission but your own.

 

And yes... other guilds are in the same spot in some cases....because they want more of something then the game is offering. But you know what..... having played different MMOs for years... your complaint is not new.... nor novel. I've seen it in every MMO gaming forum, including WoW.

 

Guilds flounder for a lot of reasons. Since you brought a guild over from AoC.. and it has since withered... then maybe go wherever the rest of them went... so you can have fun instead of complaining and being unhappy.

 

Be reasonable with yourself. You cannot complain content into an MMO. It either meets your requirements or it does not. Personally, I have yet to see an MMO that meets all my requirements. But I don't complain about it, I simply expand my MMO play... playing a couple or three at a time... each for it's strengths and as it suits my personal mood. I am guilded in three different MMOs right now.. and I spend time in each... playing what I enjoy and avoiding anything that does not meet my requirements. You can do the same.. which would empower your play time and fun, rather then pretending like you are being slighted by the MMO company because the content they release is not what you prefer.

 

You don't seem to understand what a "mix" is with casual being the focus. We raided with progression as a goal 3-4 hours a week (2 nights) with no strict rules on DPS, attendance, and gear. That is not hard core, that is hard core nights; kind of. Our guild was floundering not because we lack NiM or hard core raiding, it's because there's no new raiding or daily zone/end game content in general, as most our raiding nights were geared toward a light atmosphere as to enjoy the game.

 

Don't try to project meaning on my words. There has been no new end game content, hard core raiding or not, in several months and this is destroying most guilds moderately invested in end game operations, faction-dailies, and pvp.

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You don't seem to understand what a "mix" is with casual being the focus. We raided with progression as a goal 3-4 hours a week (2 nights) with no strict rules on DPS, attendance, and gear. That is not hard core, that is hard core nights; kind of. Our guild was floundering not because we lack NiM or hard core raiding, it's because there's no new raiding or daily zone/end game content in general, as most our raiding nights were geared toward a light atmosphere as to enjoy the game.

 

Don't try to project meaning on my words. There has been no new end game content, hard core raiding or not, in several months and this is destroying most guilds moderately invested in end game operations, faction-dailies, and pvp.

 

I can only go by what you wrote. Write better next time. Don't present lack of hard core content as cause and then deny it is the cause. That's circular reasoning.

 

You specifically emphasized the lack of hard core content... by presenting your guilds hardcore successes, and how a lack of new hardcore for success has incapacitated your guilds ability to even run them anymore through player attrition in your guild. So, apparently you went rogue and off-topic in your own post. :rolleyes:

 

And here's a clue for you ----> I never claimed there were not any new hardcore OPs.. that is a given. It's what you personally do with that fact and about it that matters. You can of course complain publicly in gaming forums if you like... but it changes nothing. All it really does is self-reinforce your own unhappiness. Take charge of you happiness in game play IMO... make changes at your end to find your happy-face.

 

And your attempt at a narrative that there has been no end game content of any kind, not just hardmode OPs... that does not hold water. I see plenty of cap level players in game every day, in my guild and out of my guild, that are active, having fun, and enjoying each new patch for what it offers.

Edited by Andryah
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I can only go by what you wrote. Write better next time. Don't present lack of hard core content as cause and then deny it is the cause. That's circular reasoning.

 

You specifically emphasized the lack of hard core content... by presenting your guilds hardcore successes, and how a lack of new hardcore for success has incapacitated your guilds ability to even run them anymore through player attrition in your guild. So, apparently you went rogue and off-topic in your own post. :rolleyes:

 

And here's a clue for you ----> I never claimed there were not any new hardcore OPs.. that is a given. It's what you personally do with that fact and about it that matters. You can of course complain publicly in gaming forums if you like... but it changes nothing. All it really does is self-reinforce your own unhappiness. Take charge of you happiness in game play IMO... make changes at your end to find your happy-face.

 

And your attempt at a narrative that there has been no end game content of any kind, not just hardmode OPs... that does not hold water. I see plenty of cap level players in game every day, in my guild and out of my guild, that are active, having fun, and enjoying each new patch for what it offers.

 

I did not focus on hardcore; I focused on operations in general, daily zones, etc. The most recent "content" is NiM so it was a part of the post. Next time read or think it through a bit before you decide to white knight it.

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I did not focus on hardcore; I focused on operations in general, daily zones, etc. The most recent "content" is NiM so it was a part of the post. Next time read or think it through a bit before you decide to white knight it.

 

Yes you did focus on hardcore... it was the centerpiece of your theme. Yes you did toss in other end game content in general... but you made raids your centerpoint of the collapse of your guild.

 

Yes I did read.

 

Call me a white knight all you like. It's wasted energy on me. Have fun.

 

We can agree to disagree, or we can continue. But either way... you are not getting your personal needs met with SWTOR .. so you need to do something about that IMO. And that is on you, not me.

Edited by Andryah
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I am REALLY getting tired of stating the same thing over and over again

UNTIL BIOWARE SAYS OTHERWISE THEY HAVE SAID THE EXPANSION IS COMING THIS YEAR MULTIPLE TIMES

 

That's great, but by then it will be too late. My guild has gone from a 16man progression group plus an 8man gearing team to just one 8man team and I myself am finding it harder and harder to log in. I have not even set foot in NiM DP yet, and I just can't bring myself to care.

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That's great, but by then it will be too late. My guild has gone from a 16man progression group plus an 8man gearing team to just one 8man team and I myself am finding it harder and harder to log in. I have not even set foot in NiM DP yet, and I just can't bring myself to care.

 

It won't be too late, for the game. It may be for some players... but let's keep in mind that game loyalty in the players is not what it used to be and probably never will be again.

 

Guilds grow and decline all the time in MMOs, for a variety of reasons. Heck I've seen stellar end game raiding guilds in the hey day of WoW go poof overnight.

 

Maybe take a break.. come back when the new content releases. People have been subbing/unsubbing from WoW and other MMOs for years over "content drought". It's both normal and OK in the modern era of MMOs. Me, I simply learned years ago to diversify my MMO play so as to not get boxed into a corner of perpetual boredom with any one MMO.

Edited by Andryah
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"Take a break" is not an acceptable response to what is either poor dev scheduling or slow dev work speed. Even if the game is "not designed for hardcore" as you keep insisting, even casual raiders need more than 10 bosses a year.

 

I am not sure why you are trying to excuse away the hardcore crowd, but without the hardcores, the casuals will suffer. No one will be there to write guides for them, to answer their in game questions, to take them through new operations.

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If only we were hard core that quote would be valid, but we're not. We just played the game and now there's been nothing to do for 10 months. It's not a hard core problem, it's a casual been playing since launch problem.

 

you keep saying that but you refuse to acknowledge any other part of the game besides operations, you claim the game is not growing yet GSF and GSH are huge additions to the game and "grow" it more than another op or click terminal daily area will.

 

your backtracking is obvious, you came in claiming lack of raids is destroying your guild. that I believe, I have see raiding guilds break up with every NIM release so far and have seen very prominent guilds die in the wake of released NIM ops. but you are now trying to claim that because your guild died, [and believe me its not the first to die or the last] that the whole game is dying because of the lack of content and that's where you come off as whiny and entitled.

 

population numbers may be low, some servers drastically more then others but that has to do with a lot of factors, no new ops announced is just a small part of that, remember all the people complaining about muscos no to pvp post, what about the ones who left over the heal to full class rep fiasco, what about the RP guilds that died due to lack chat bubbles and sitting in chairs or the people unhappy about joystick control and cockpit view in GSF, or how about the unhappy with no new class stories, and cant forget 2 major games just released back to back wildstar being a direct competitor for swtor raiders being trinity based theme park focused on endgame raiding and hipster devs who say "hardcore"

 

point is the game is growing and content is going live at a very reasonable pace you and the rest of the "no content crowd" are coming across as self inflated over your current reason to not be happy. we already had the servers are ghost towns thread yours is no different except you want the attention focused on you the content YOU want and your dead guild to point at and say games dead yay wildstar

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you keep saying that but you refuse to acknowledge any other part of the game besides operations, you claim the game is not growing yet GSF and GSH are huge additions to the game and "grow" it more than another op or click terminal daily area will.

 

your backtracking is obvious, you came in claiming lack of raids is destroying your guild. that I believe, I have see raiding guilds break up with every NIM release so far and have seen very prominent guilds die in the wake of released NIM ops. but you are now trying to claim that because your guild died, [and believe me its not the first to die or the last] that the whole game is dying because of the lack of content and that's where you come off as whiny and entitled.

 

population numbers may be low, some servers drastically more then others but that has to do with a lot of factors, no new ops announced is just a small part of that, remember all the people complaining about muscos no to pvp post, what about the ones who left over the heal to full class rep fiasco, what about the RP guilds that died due to lack chat bubbles and sitting in chairs or the people unhappy about joystick control and cockpit view in GSF, or how about the unhappy with no new class stories, and cant forget 2 major games just released back to back wildstar being a direct competitor for swtor raiders being trinity based theme park focused on endgame raiding and hipster devs who say "hardcore"

 

point is the game is growing and content is going live at a very reasonable pace you and the rest of the "no content crowd" are coming across as self inflated over your current reason to not be happy. we already had the servers are ghost towns thread yours is no different except you want the attention focused on you the content YOU want and your dead guild to point at and say games dead yay wildstar

 

The irony of your post is that the "no content" crowd is continuing to grow and express their discontent, to the point where it was acknowledged by the new dev team member, whereas the number of the people such as yourself white knighting for the game remains a fixed constant, as you and your ilk try to drown out the increasing number of unhappy people by increasing your own post count.

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"Take a break" is not an acceptable response to what is either poor dev scheduling or slow dev work speed. Even if the game is "not designed for hardcore" as you keep insisting, even casual raiders need more than 10 bosses a year.

 

I am not sure why you are trying to excuse away the hardcore crowd, but without the hardcores, the casuals will suffer. No one will be there to write guides for them, to answer their in game questions, to take them through new operations.

 

"Take a break" from an MMO that is boring you to the point that you don't want to log in = absolutely sound advice. It's also healthy advice. And I take my own advice on this... though to avoid it to begin with.. I diversify my game play in MMOs across more then one MMO. There are times when I don't log in to SWTOR for days at a time.. though that is more about being actively involved in something in another MMO at the moment.

 

I'm not excusing away the hardcore crowd. I am simply of the view that they do not dictate content plans and release. They seem to think in some cases that they are special class citizens... but they are not. And if you only play one type of content in an MMO (like raiding)... you are destined to burn out and lose interest in any MMO.

 

TL;DR diversify your game play (inside the same MMO, or across multiple MMOs), just like people do in real life to mitigate boredom.

Edited by Andryah
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"Take a break" from an MMO that is boring you to the point that you don't want to log in = absolutely sound advice. It's also healthy advice. And I take my own advice on this... though to avoid it to begin with.. I diversify my game play in MMOs across more then one MMO. There are times when I don't log in to SWTOR for days at a time.. though that is more about being actively involved in something in another MMO at the moment.

 

I'm not excusing away the hardcore crowd. I am simply of the view that they do not dictate content plans and release. They seem to think in some cases that they are special class citizens... but they are not. And if you only play one type of content in an MMO (like raiding)... you are destined to burn out and lose interest in any MMO.

 

TL;DR diversify your game play (inside the same MMO, or across multiple MMOs), just like people do in real life to mitigate boredom.

 

I play every part of the game except ranked arenas. I enjoy raiding, I love GSF, I do PvP, I achievement hunt, I've seen every class story, I even occasionally enjoy rep grinding. It is almost impossible to diversify my SWTOR gameplay any more. I also play other games like you suggest. It is also not a question of playing too much, because I work 50-60 hours per week and don't have time to burn myself out even if I wanted. But SWTOR is "my game", and I want to be excited about "my game".

 

I don't think it is too much to ask that a company who's job it is to make money off "my game" should be able to do something to make me excited about "my game". I am not exactly a hard sell here, I have been rooting for them since the beginning as you well know.

 

An entire year without any update for my favorite type of content is not acceptable and you need to stop excusing it. At this point I am sitting here asking myself, "what exactly am I paying a sub for?" And I do not think I will be renewing it.

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An entire year without any update for my favorite type of content is not acceptable and you need to stop excusing it.

 

I have made no excuses for it. All I said is ... taking a break is a good thing.. a healthy thing.. when you find yourself not wanting to play the game. This is simply common sense.. and applicable to everything in life really. And please... do not tell me what to do... especially when it is an inaccurate characterization of what I have said.

 

At this point I am sitting here asking myself, "what exactly am I paying a sub for?" And I do not think I will be renewing it.

 

Which pretty much proves my point. So.. take break. When content you love comes in a patch you can always resub. For now.. just play preferred so you can stay in touch with things and go find something else to amuse you until they release what you want. Lots of players have left this game over it's life and have come back later and found a fresh and new enthusiasm for the game. Try it.

Edited by Andryah
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Ok folks, re the lack of raid content. as someone who does raid (not a ahrd corer by any means) I definatly feel this myself.

 

That said, It's worth taking a step back and examining the facts.

 

FACT: Oricon and the associated raids came out in October 2013.

Fact: BW has not given us any new dalies or raids since.

Fact: EVERY raid to date has revolved around the dread masters storyline (Soa was set free as a result of the raid to free the DMs. Karagga was acting agressive due to the dreadmasters attacking him)

fact: the two newest tatical flashpoints are the launching point for a new storyline.

 

Honestly I think it's a safe bet the reason for the lack of major new raids is Bioware's working on an expansion/level cap raise.

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