Death_By_Smiley Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The thread in question. I know we as gamers may often sound whiny when we say there should be new content, but endgame content in this game has basically come to a standstill. Flashpoints are nice for advancing a story, but they are not a substitute for operations for PvE players. If I had a choice between the five flashpoint released in the last year or a new operation, I would take the new operation each time, and I think most endgame PvEers would agree. This wouldn't be so bad except there has been no talk of operations in the near future. We are almost 9 months removed from 2.4 with not even a sniff of something new. And guilds are suffering for it. Serious, hardcore guilds that have become the backbone of the community like Hatred are gone or going. These guilds that are based on PvE are basically giving up hope. In short, give us something. We shouldn't be 9 months away from the last operation without even a hint of when to expect new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Reddit. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goukakyuu Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 In SWTOR's defense OP this isn't even a hardcore or even moderately friendly MMO. There's been an endgame content drought ever since 2012 and it will always remain this way due to the fact that the devs are going to try and cater to multiple playstyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunav Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) In SWTOR's defense OP this isn't even a hardcore or even moderately friendly MMO. There's been an endgame content drought ever since 2012 and it will always remain this way due to the fact that the devs are going to try and cater to multiple playstyles. I don't quite agree with your reason - it will remain this way because much of the development staff was let go or moved. Until EA decides to change direction with SWTOR, it will be more of the same, though 2014 has been worse than in the past. BW did not have much pre-launch content left to slowly finish and release. 3.0 will be interesting, when it finally arrives - we'll see the new team's ability to put together a new planet or planets, compared to the original staff's - Makeb included. Edited June 25, 2014 by arunav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Most of the stuff written there is true. They have run out of content and don't have the capacity to put it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goukakyuu Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I don't quite agree with your reason - it will remain this way because much of the development staff was let go or moved. Until EA decides to change direction with SWTOR, it will be more of the same, though 2014 has been worse than in the past. BW did not have much pre-launch content left to slowly finish and release. 3.0 will be interesting, when it finally arrives - we'll see the new team's ability to put together a new planet or planets, compared to the original staff's - Makeb included. Well that is another major point, but so is mine. This is a casual MMO that is heavily oriented to the singleplayer playstyle. Just go to the planets and most of them are SOLO quests. The previous dev team stressed story but that just is NOT what the MMO community wants at all. A leveling experience should be tolerable at least but the endgame experience needs to be FANTASTIC. Unfortunately the devs have that flip-flopped when they should not have because MMO'ers CRAVE difficulty and progression. Edited June 25, 2014 by Goukakyuu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daekarus Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Kind of a circle jerk going on here... The majority of players never achieve what that redditor is talking of - 5 fully-gear alts - because most people don't have the incredible amount of spare time that requires. The "hardcore" raiders (a laughable term compared to what it used to mean in old games: permadeath) need to understand that they are the minority, always will be the minority, and need to recognize the pattern here: in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. Get it through your heads, just because you ran the race ten times faster than Joe Public, that doesn't mean it makes sense for a game studio to try to crank out content at a rate sufficient to please you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled complaint session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I don't quite agree with your reason - it will remain this way because much of the development staff was let go or moved. Until EA decides to change direction with SWTOR, it will be more of the same, though 2014 has been worse than in the past. BW did not have much pre-launch content left to slowly finish and release. 3.0 will be interesting, when it finally arrives - we'll see the new team's ability to put together a new planet or planets, compared to the original staff's - Makeb included. You are assuming they don't have any leftovers from what the original team envisioned at one time. I could be wrong but it's possible that such is not the case. Oricon for example... Was at one point a single operation, preceded first by a briefing and once done a debriefing, like the operations who came before. Commander Nol on Section X even mentions this one Commander that was supposed to make an appearance for that operation but I guess that he was cut and replaced by Lord Hargrev. Also, on Scum & Villainy, Styrak wasn't apparently supposed to die. Same thing with Brontes in Dread Fortress, seeing that it was apparently only one operation.Regardless, it still remains to be seen if everything pertaining 3.0 is actually brand new. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Kind of a circle jerk going on here... The majority of players never achieve what that redditor is talking of - 5 fully-gear alts - because most people don't have the incredible amount of spare time that requires. The "hardcore" raiders (a laughable term compared to what it used to mean in old games: permadeath) need to understand that they are the minority, always will be the minority, and need to recognize the pattern here: in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. Get it through your heads, just because you ran the race ten times faster than Joe Public, that doesn't mean it makes sense for a game studio to try to crank out content at a rate sufficient to please you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled complaint session. I agree with everything this man said. I have nothing further to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arunav Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) You are assuming they don't have any leftovers from what the original team envisioned at one time. I could be wrong but it's possible that such is not the case. Oricon for example... Was at one point a single operation, preceded first by a briefing and once done a debriefing, like the operations who came before. Commander Nol on Section X even mentions this one Commander that was supposed to make an appearance for that operation but I guess that he was cut and replaced by Lord Hargrev. Also, on Scum & Villainy, Styrak wasn't apparently supposed to die. Same thing with Brontes in Dread Fortress, seeing that it was apparently only one operation.Regardless, it still remains to be seen if everything pertaining 3.0 is actually brand new. I'm sure almost any update that is being released, CM fluff aside, is in some way tied to what was initially planned and produced. Even something "new" like the Oricon daily area was in large part assets from the Voss Nightmare Lands. I guess my point was BW is really running out of what the original team had started, thus the lack of real updates to the basic game in 2014, compared to last year and since 1.4. Edited June 25, 2014 by arunav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Smiley Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Kind of a circle jerk going on here... The majority of players never achieve what that redditor is talking of - 5 fully-gear alts - because most people don't have the incredible amount of spare time that requires. The "hardcore" raiders (a laughable term compared to what it used to mean in old games: permadeath) need to understand that they are the minority, always will be the minority, and need to recognize the pattern here: in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. Get it through your heads, just because you ran the race ten times faster than Joe Public, that doesn't mean it makes sense for a game studio to try to crank out content at a rate sufficient to please you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled complaint session. Most MMOs I have played have had more than 10 boss fights released a year. And, no, the flashpoint ones don't count since they are all effectively tank and spanks. The closest they get to "challenging" is don't stand in circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daekarus Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Most MMOs I have played have had more than 10 boss fights released a year. And, no, the flashpoint ones don't count since they are all effectively tank and spanks. The closest they get to "challenging" is don't stand in circles. You must not play the same flashpoints I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawginole Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Most of the stuff written there is true. They have run out of content and don't have the capacity to put it back. They don't have the capacity because they have spent the last year or more working on projects they can monetize like GSF and GSH. I warned people in a thread over a month ago that it was very apparent based on their current schedule that the big expansion would not be released this year. It is very obvious to me that it will have been way over a year since DF/DP dropped when the next operation is released. I do want all PvE players to understand however, that this is what the PvP community has dealt with since launch....constant content drought of years between warzone maps. My hope is that the PvE community becomes very aware of the drought as well and begins chiming in rather than always chiding the PvP community when they ask for more content. Edited June 25, 2014 by Dawginole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death_By_Smiley Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 While I'm aware of some parts of PvE community seeing PvP players as inferior and deriding them as such, much of that reddit thread just talks about how content across the board is suffering and several guilds are suffering because of it. Guilds are the backbone of any MMO, and with the continue losses, it doesn't bode well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I'm sure almost any update that is being released, CM fluff aside, is in some way tied to what was initially planned and produced. I guess my point was BW is really running out of what the original team had started, thus the lack of real updates to the basic game in 2014, compared to last year and since 1.4. That's my point. It's actually possible they're still partly relying on whatever the original team devised, which if accurate... Is not exactly good news. Imagine what will happen when all that material truly runs out. After all... Stuff that was first leaked over two(!!!) years ago, such as the Imperial Warlord, doesn't appear to have been repurposed yet. On the other hand, stuff like Varl and an alliance between the Hutt Cartel and the Dread Masters has apparently been replaced with Makeb; The alliance is never actually discussed. Implied but not discussed. ^^ For what is worth, Charles Boyd did mention in a Twitch stream they had scrapped a story arc or something a while back. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Mention of the... Commander I brought up previously below... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F294WQoCs5U#t=01m19s Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. From release at December 2011 to October 2013 there were 6 operations released (KP, EC, TfB, SnV, DF and DP). That is an average of 3.5 months per operation. If you treat DF/DP into a single operation, that is still 4.5 months per operation, quite respectable. I don't know about you, but every single person I know in this game that raided seem satisfied with that release pace. During that time add the expansion (Makeb), daily areas including Black Hole, Section X, Czerka, Oricon, and new HM Flashpoints including Kaon, Lost Island, HMs for Hammer Station, Athiss, Mando Raiders, Cad, and the two Czerka HMs. This makes for a decent pace of content release. Not much to complain about from an end-game PvE perspective. Since October 2013 we've had four SM tactical flashpoints (without HM versions), no operations, no new daily areas, one new event (currently running). With the lack of concrete information about upcoming releases, it's not much of a stretch to think that 2.9 will be mostly housing, which would leave 3.0 for new end-game content. So we've moved from a 4-month release pace of operations to a potentially 12-month delay to the next operation? Without a new daily area or HM flashpoints to tide anyone over? Surely you can see that the pace of PvE content has gone way down. Had the 2012-2013 pace of content release continued in 2014, it would have been (in my opinion) just fine. Edited June 25, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 In SWTOR's defense OP this isn't even a hardcore or even moderately friendly MMO. There's been an endgame content drought ever since 2012 and it will always remain this way due to the fact that the devs are going to try and cater to multiple playstyles. I have no idea what game you were playing last year, but it was not SWTOR. This year has (so far) been abysmal for new content, but 2013 saw ROTC and 3 new ops with 17 bosses and the CZ daily area and FP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnoblesse Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Kind of a circle jerk going on here... The majority of players never achieve what that redditor is talking of - 5 fully-gear alts - because most people don't have the incredible amount of spare time that requires. The "hardcore" raiders (a laughable term compared to what it used to mean in old games: permadeath) need to understand that they are the minority, always will be the minority, and need to recognize the pattern here: in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. Get it through your heads, just because you ran the race ten times faster than Joe Public, that doesn't mean it makes sense for a game studio to try to crank out content at a rate sufficient to please you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled complaint session. What you (and the person that agreed with you) are missing, is that even though the OP of that thread is reasonably hardcore - many, many of the people replying to him and stating that their guilds are starting to suffer from the same issues...are not. Eventually, if we don't get new classes..or class stories...etc - even the most casual among us is going to run out of things to do. This isn't just a hardcore problem anymore. (I'm a PvPer, btw. Standing up for you PvE folks that are having guild attrition issues because I know exactly how you feel.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well that is another major point, but so is mine. This is a casual MMO that is heavily oriented to the singleplayer playstyle. Just go to the planets and most of them are SOLO quests. The previous dev team stressed story but that just is NOT what the MMO community wants at all. A leveling experience should be tolerable at least but the endgame experience needs to be FANTASTIC. Unfortunately the devs have that flip-flopped when they should not have because MMO'ers CRAVE difficulty and progression. I underlined something to discuss it: The devs have said that they are going to put efforts to "group play" instead of "solo play" (class stories). Who knows if that will change, but at least I endorse that direction. I've grown weary of the many plz-give-moar single player content (class stories) threads there have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goukakyuu Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I underlined something to discuss it: The devs have said that they are going to put efforts to "group play" instead of "solo play" (class stories). Who knows if that will change, but at least I endorse that direction. I've grown weary of the many plz-give-moar single player content (class stories) threads there have been. This is something they should have been doing from the beginning. However I will take what they said with a grain of salt since they've said there are going to do <insert dev action here> in the past and never have fulfilled their response or instead done something completely different that was just as much of a slap in the face like not doing anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBos Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I think that the real issue here is not getting attention. Not long after the game came out, the DEV team got WIPED. If I remember correctly, the people who are running the company laid off most of the DEVS to just a skeleton crew in order to cut costs. Like every other video game with AMAZING potential, it will be CORPORATE decisions that kill it. I'm not saying that the DEVS who are working now are incompetent, but they don't have much to work with. Right now there's only a handful of people who are working to try and keep up with the amount of content we are demanding but they can only crank out SO much. This is not a problem with the DEVS this is a problem with stupid corporate management who thinks that with only a skeleton crew maintaining the game they'll still keep most of their subs. The DEVS are the punching bags who get blamed for everything but in this case I'm sure they're trying their best, it's management's fault for cutting most of the people and leaving this small team to try and keep the game afloat. In the end, if this game dies, it will be because of stupid management decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruskaeth Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Saying "handful of devs" is simply not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Saying "handful of devs" is simply not true. Resources are not as high, that is a fact. There is only one person for entire PVP for example Edited June 25, 2014 by tanerb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yep, actually they are less than that. No one knows for sure how many people are working in the game but stuff like this is hardly comforting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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