OrionSol Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yes, another SWG post. I love this SWTOR game. I do. But the time frames in between REAL content is killing activity. Fill the void with some legit Sand, and people get invested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 If themepark MMO is so bad, why does WoW have 10x the people SWTOR does? Also, Minecraft isn't an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudenfusz Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Also, Minecraft isn't an MMO. Pretty much this! Look, sandbox is nice and dandy when everybody has his or her own, but in an MMO that is not that easy, that is why most MMOs give just little instanced sandboxes for housing or other small features, but the general gameplay is the theme park rides one can enjoy with friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 If themepark MMO is so bad, why does WoW have 10x the people SWTOR does? Also, Minecraft isn't an MMO. bingo! Its sad OP didnt understand this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinatorz Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Actually I too have came to the same conclusion that the original poster has come to. Fortunately on top of player housing we will be given the ability to conquer and semi own planets! To be honest I actually have never played a true sandbox mmo but that owning planets sounds pretty sand box to me! Also it might just be me but I feel like not everyone is aware of the new feature of being able to claim planets, anyone else got that feeling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Pretty much this! Look, sandbox is nice and dandy when everybody has his or her own, but in an MMO that is not that easy, that is why most MMOs give just little instanced sandboxes for housing or other small features, but the general gameplay is the theme park rides one can enjoy with friends. That is because the masses want an easy to figure out tour. SWG made sandbox work great a long time ago. The problem is that it didn't spoon-feed players like how they love to be fed their games now. Someone else mentioned WoW. WoW took everything that was great about EQ and made it easy, which in-turn made it very popular. LA took a peak at the popularity and tried to make SWG easy so that they can compete with WoW and we all know that tragic story. As for Minecraft not being an MMO... That is not even considering all of the great themed RPG Minecraft servers that are out there. Edited June 19, 2014 by TheBBP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinatorz Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Also why not both, it does not have to be one or the other. Sand box style just seems like it would have a lot of replay value in a sense. Fortunately I think a mixture of both is actually the direction I think this game is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Also why not both, it does not have to be one or the other. Sand box style just seems like it would have a lot of replay value in a sense. Fortunately I think a mixture of both is actually the direction I think this game is going. I don't think that anyone is advocating for one over the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) That is because the masses want an easy to figure out tour. SWG made sandbox work great a long time ago. The problem is that it didn't spoon-feed players like how they love to be fed their games now. Someone else mentioned WoW. WoW took everything that was great about EQ and made it easy, which in-turn made it very popular. LA took a peak at the popularity and tried to make SWG easy so that they can compete with WoW and we all know that tragic story. The entire premise of the OP's post was that "Sandbox is more popular than themepark"... and you just proved that wrong. Thank you. As for Minecraft not being an MMO... Having 2000+ players on a server with just a flat surface and nothing else is hardly an MMO... Otherwise, apparantly Just Cause 2 is now an MMO too... Edited June 19, 2014 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The entire premise of the OP's post was that "Sandbox is more popular than themepark"... and you just proved that wrong. Thank you. Since below we are able to prove that Minecraft does fit the definition of an MMO and there is no way that you can refute the amazing continued world-wide success of said game on PCs, consoles and otherwise, then you have to agree that the OP has a point. Having 2000+ players on a server with just a flat surface and nothing else is hardly an MMO... Otherwise, apparantly Just Cause 2 is now an MMO too... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.[1] MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices. MMOGs can enable players to cooperate and compete with each other on a large scale, and sometimes to interact meaningfully with people around the world. They include a variety of gameplay types, representing many video game genres. Minecraft is all of that and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Since below we are able to prove that Minecraft does fit the definition of an MMO and there is no way that you can refute the amazing continued world-wide success of said game on PCs, consoles and otherwise, then you have to agree that the OP has a point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game Minecraft is all of that and then some. You know as well as I that in this context we are referring to MMORPG's and not just MMO's. People just use the shorter MMO term in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Also, Minecraft isn't an MMO. Let's replace it with real sandbox MMO then. http://www.eveonline.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You know as well as I that in this context we are referring to MMORPG's and not just MMO's. People just use the shorter MMO term in general. Even if you go that route, many people have made many successful RPG servers with Minecraft. Thus making it also an MMORPG. The point being made is that player-created content is VERY popular. Even in a genre of gaming where many folks like to congregate to play together. You cannot dispute how insanely popular that Minecraft is. Because it is quite literally a blank canvas of a game, players are allowed to let their imaginations run wild. Any traditional MMO would sell their mothers to have Minecraft's fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yes, another SWG post. I love this SWTOR game. I do. But the time frames in between REAL content is killing activity. Fill the void with some legit Sand, and people get invested. You lost any ability to sell your point with the title of your thread. If Sandbox was so great, why did SWG peak at a number then what SWTOR was at when it failed? If Sandbox is so great, how come the most successful Sandbox MMO, EVE, has taken over a decade to grow past 500k subs. I think modern Themepark MMOs do need to bring in much more robust Sandbox features to help players occupy themselves, but a Sandbox is hard to self sustain in the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghoul_drool Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 People complain there is nothing to do NOW, how would a sandbox feature (which I never understood) alleviate that? Isn't sandbox the very essence of 'there's nothing to do' unless you invent the content yourself? In other words, what would SWTOR need to do in order to add successful sandbox features to the already existing game features? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) If Sandbox is so great, how come the most successful Sandbox MMO, EVE, has taken over a decade to grow past 500k subs. - Most players don't like PvP especially when it's added to mix when they least expect it (mining in hisec and then that evul player comes and destroyes your ship). - Most players don't ever go to lowsec or nullsec in EVE. Hisec gets boring after a while. They started with very small player base 11 years ago. As far as I know massive player base isn't their top priority. They have even better goals in their minds: - everything can be build by players and yes, that includes stargates. - this also means that everything can be destroyed too, including stargates. Edited June 19, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Let's replace it with real sandbox MMO then. http://www.eveonline.com/ Yep, when people say Sandbox I think EvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Even if you go that route, many people have made many successful RPG servers with Minecraft. Thus making it also an MMORPG. The point being made is that player-created content is VERY popular. Even in a genre of gaming where many folks like to congregate to play together. You cannot dispute how insanely popular that Minecraft is. Because it is quite literally a blank canvas of a game, players are allowed to let their imaginations run wild. Any traditional MMO would sell their mothers to have Minecraft's fan base. Sure, but I can RP on tons of games, but that doesn't make them RPG's... And what you are talking about is effectively mods for minecraft. The fact remains that it isn't designed as an MMORPG. The OP's reasoning was that "Minecraft is popular, therefore sandbox MMO's are more popular and SWTOR is doing it wrong." I could hold up call of duty: Ghosts to claim the same thing. Both games are capable of multiplayer but neither are built to be MMO's. It's plain to see that sandbox MMO's are not as popular as themepark MMO's (and I like sandbox games). Let's replace it with real sandbox MMO then. http://www.eveonline.com/ You mean "pretty much the only sandbox MMORPG out there"? Yeah, it's doing alright, but I wouldn't call it a raging success. I certainly wouldn't hold it up as some sort of example that proves that sandbox games are more popular than themepark ones. Edited June 19, 2014 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Sure, but I can RP on tons of games, but that doesn't make them RPG's... And what you are talking about is effectively mods for minecraft. The fact remains that it isn't designed as an MMORPG. The OP's reasoning was that "Minecraft is popular, therefore sandbox MMO's are more popular and SWTOR is doing it wrong." I could hold up call of duty: Ghosts to claim the same thing. Both games are capable of multiplayer but neither are built to be MMO's. It's plain to see that sandbox MMO's are not as popular as themepark MMO's (and I like sandbox games). You mean "pretty much the only sandbox MMORPG out there"? Yeah, it's doing alright, but I wouldn't call it a raging success. I certainly wouldn't hold it up as some sort of example that proves that sandbox games are more popular than themepark ones. I don't contend that they are more popular. I contend that sandboxes are wildly popular. Of course your average MMOer (The masses, the bulk of the playerbase.) does not want a sandbox, because the average MMOer wants everything guided and explained to him/her. Today's premier MMOs are made to be played by a short attention span crowd with Nightmare-level endgame being the only thing that takes substantial dedication and effort. Everything else is a hand-held tour on rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You mean "pretty much the only sandbox MMORPG out there"? Yeah, it's doing alright, but I wouldn't call it a raging success. I certainly wouldn't hold it up as some sort of example that proves that sandbox games are more popular than themepark ones. Which one was it: You have never even tried it. You got ganked and quit. - Economy created by players. - Most expensive (and expansive?) space battles ever seen in virtual universe. - Remember: "Internet spaceships are serious business". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manweth Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 EVE is a niché game with a very select clientele. They have hardly over 100k players, and that's a maybe. It's not for the masses. That, and Sandbox MMOs with today's graphics and the Bioware styled storytelling requirements? You'd need to spend north of 1 Billion dollars to make a single game. Not financially viable. The reason why you guys don't have that "CHOSEN ONE OF MMOS, THE SANDBOX HEAVEN" is very obvious. Money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Minecrafts player base consists mostly of children and hipsters. It has no sub fee, and and can be played on a machine with less processing power than the average toaster. Some of these might explain it's individual popularity, but let's not get carried away and suggest sandboxes MMO's are super popular too. SWG was never a popular game, even before it was butchered by the NGE/CU SOE considered it a commercial failure and basically redesigned it in a desperate bid to attract subs which also failed. I'll never understand why people continue to bring it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demotivator Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Every time I hear people complaining that there is nothing to do, I feel like asking how many achievement points they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalfear Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Every time I hear people complaining that there is nothing to do, I feel like asking how many achievement points they have. agree on this as well! Though I do wish they would make the last achievement super long to achieve (IE rather then final stage being 500 kills make a final stage of 50000 kills) But yeah, I bet maybe 1% of game have done all the doable acheivements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Which one was it: You have never even tried it. You got ganked and quit. - Economy created by players. - Most expensive (and expansive?) space battles ever seen in virtual universe. - Remember: "Internet spaceships are serious business". I tried it. Never got ganked. Just found it pretty dull and boring. And here's a shocker for ya... Not everyone likes what you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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