Strike Night Musings

[Nemarus]

I wouldn't go as far as saying they should be nerfed "super hard", but considering how fun it is to play a Strike against Strikes, and how much complaints that comes from others', I really can't understand why some want to bring Strikes at others' level, and not the opposite.

 

Well, to be frank, the main "nerf" directed to Scouts I'd do, would in ractually be an overall buff, mainly beneficial to Strikes... So in a way...

Still, the goal would not be to bring Strikes at the top without dragging down others somehow.

 

Well, one of the early "musings" in this thread is simply that Strike Night is fun mostly because of there being so much less burst damage. Kills are slower, meaning defensive flying and system use is more important. It makes the game feel richer and more tactical, in my opinion.

 

So if you wanted to preserve that slower pace, you've gotta bring all burst damage down. That means dealing with three things, in priority order: BO/TT, BLC's, Slug (and maybe Ion) Railgun.

 

BO/TT should simply never have been in the game to begin with, as giving one class offensive cooldowns (especially ones that boost so many offensive stats simultaneously, making synergizing easy) is very difficult to balance, and Scouts already have plenty of advantages over other ships through superior mobility and evasion. I don't quite know how to put this genie back in the bottle, as the devs won't simply delete a component. But really, I wish all Scout #1 system components had been mobility/utility focused. It'd fit more with the class theme.

 

BLC's just need to be a bit less extremely burst. Slightly faster rate of fire, slightly less damage per shot, same DPS overall.

 

Slugs are similar. Need a slightly faster rate of fire, less damage per shot. Maybe a slight increase in sustained DPS.

 

Make those three changes and Strikes will still probably not be a key part of the meta without some "I'm best at this!" role, but at least they'd be more competitive, and the game would overall be more accessible and feel more like Strike Nights do.

 

That's all my opinion, and others are free to disagree.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Nemarus

[Drakkolich]

The only thing I didn't like about strike night was that with everyone flying only strikes, the game is much slower and it became who can manage there cooldowns better. To get kills on the good pilots we just had to stack missiles on them until it was impossible to break them all. We had a lot of games where we died 0 times because it was so easy to just manage cooldowns so effectively that we took so little damage that the imperiums were able to heal it no problem.

 

Our strategy last monday was Gunsheep on a quell with cluster and concussion spamming on people to get them to blow there engine maneuver, and then Dementia and I were on Imperiums with thermite and proton and sheep would call what target to lock on. Both missile pretty much just insta killed someone.

 

Anyways just my 2 cents, after playing a few strike nights in a row I've had fun doing them, but I'm also very glad that isn't how the game was designed. I would have stopped playing a long time ago had it been like that always.

[Kintosi]

The only thing I didn't like about strike night was that with everyone flying only strikes, the game is much slower and it became who can manage there cooldowns better. To get kills on the good pilots we just had to stack missiles on them until it was impossible to break them all. We had a lot of games where we died 0 times because it was so easy to just manage cooldowns so effectively that we took so little damage that the imperiums were able to heal it no problem.

 

Our strategy last monday was Gunsheep on a quell with cluster and concussion spamming on people to get them to blow there engine maneuver, and then Dementia and I were on Imperiums with thermite and proton and sheep would call what target to lock on. Both missile pretty much just insta killed someone.

 

Anyways just my 2 cents, after playing a few strike nights in a row I've had fun doing them, but I'm also very glad that isn't how the game was designed. I would have stopped playing a long time ago had it been like that always.

 

That is pretty much exactly what my friend and i do. I run HLC/EMP/protorp on a quell, while he runs protorp on an imperium. If the EMP is dodged, we lock our protons and boom, 1600 to armor. if the EMP hits, it turns off their engine ability for 15 seconds and results in the same 1600 to armor. I almost feel bad doing it, but strike fighter's synergy is so strong it isnt even funny. Most people call them the weakest class in the game, but my scores and overall K/D say otherwise.

 

not to mention the above quell build is basically a hard counter to bombers (except the t3 with powerdive where clusters/conc would be better)

[Altheran]

Well, one of the early "musings" in this thread is simply that Strike Night is fun mostly because of there being so much less burst damage. Kills are slower, meaning defensive flying and system use is more important. It makes the game feel richer and more tactical, in my opinion.

 

So if you wanted to preserve that slower pace, you've gotta bring all burst damage down. That means dealing with three things, in priority order: BO/TT, BLC's, Slug (and maybe Ion) Railgun.

 

[shortened for the eye]

 

That's all my opinion, and others are free to disagree.

 

I'd be glad to attest the fun improvement of these strike nights, and really see the absence of burst at work... but I can't because I'm in Europe, and you start it when I sleep.

The only time I can get a taste of a strike heavy match is mostly when I enter noob land. It's fun, but biased as I stomp the ennemy team.

 

 

As for the rebalance thing, we're going off topic so I'll answer in spoiler form :

 

I don't mind BO/TT themselves. As you said, it's rather how insane/gamechanging are the boost they give on top of being built on ships with already greater potential.

 

So "put the genie in the bottle", my first step (the "buff" I hinted in the previous post) would be to more or less "normalize" the cannons.

The most important part is that before tracking penalties are applied, the lowest accuracy at max range of all weapons would be 95%.

The reasons here are various :

- Reduce the importance of abilities like Wingman, and so TT as well.

- Put Scouts back at their place, survivability wise.

This last point is not evident : Scouts' mobility usually forces to attack from the edge of weapons capacities, in both range and firing arc, unless you're a scout yourself. In those conditions, the accuracy is at its lowest, usually ranging in the 60-70%. At these levels, a Scout theoretical durability skyrockets, and are even similar to various Strike builds, in the same conditions. However, non-Scout will usually not be in the same conditions, which put Scouts at the top of the survivability charts against shots, which are the bread and butter of the game.

With the change, the accuracy won't go under 20% in most case, which won't hinder Scouts to have great survivability against shots, but much less ahead of Strikes, which will always be hindered by their lower natural maneuverability.

It is planned to also change the tracking penalties or things like Rails or Pods, so that the change is really "overall"

 

In this normalization there is also a normalization of the damage profile depending on the max range of the weapon (short range ones have better incremental profile as the distance closes) and damage tax as the tracking penalties are lower than another cannon with the same range. HLC, QLC and LLC are mostly unchanged here, and as you can guess, BLC would get hit pretty hard as it won't be allowed to have a theoretical DPS similar to LLC, even at point blank.

Sorry for the lack of numbers, but otherwise I'd have to explain everything about it, and it'd be veeeery long.

 

Back on the accuracy stuff. By itself, it reduce greatly the difference in output between a Scout with TT, and a Strike, since the accuracy difference would have been greatly lowered.

Then, a removal of Crit amplitude, and a little tweak about uptime, and TT would be ready to go.

 

BO on the other hand, just need a hard nerf, 25% of extra damage through RoF is extreme. With upgrades it becomes insanity.

10% of RoF instead of 25%, would probably enough as a change.

 

As for Slug, I just completely disagree with the idea that it should keep the same DPS. I believe it should not work that well as a stand-alone weapon, and what makes it work so nice, is the inconsistent DPS difference with other rails. I believe it should be used paired with another Rail to reach optimal DPS, and that the difference when doing so should noticeable.

In its current form, I blame its DPS for various inconsistencies :

- Plasma has no use. Even pairing both do not increase DPS, because in the end Slug is already at Plasma level.

- Stacking gunship has little downsides. A rail heavy environment, hinders the use of Plasma or Ion, yet using Slug only doesn't drag down the team DPS, allowing slaughter.

- Condor is a bit too godly. In early days, the reason for gunships to be that strong at range was their "melee weakness". Weakness that the Condor do not have, yet isn't less deadly from range. Illogical, IMO.

 

To me, the solution is unique : damage = 1200 instead of 1600.

It forces the use of two different Rails to be lethal. Plasma get a use. Gunship walls are less threatening. Condor is clearly an hybrid, not a super sniper.

 

 

 

That is pretty much exactly what my friend and i do. I run HLC/EMP/protorp on a quell, while he runs protorp on an imperium. If the EMP is dodged, we lock our protons and boom, 1600 to armor. if the EMP hits, it turns off their engine ability for 15 seconds and results in the same 1600 to armor. I almost feel bad doing it, but strike fighter's synergy is so strong it isnt even funny. Most people call them the weakest class in the game, but my scores and overall K/D say otherwise.

Meh. Coincidental Proton is not interesting. You should finish that guy alone while your mate is taking care of someone else, as every ship with a Proton can kill almost every enemy with few to no additional delay than the torpedo landing... Or just shoot together, it will be simpler, and faster than what you did.

 

What you are doing is just overcomplicating your strategy, and hindering your overall performance.

[TrinityLyre]

I'd like the meta as-is if scout burst were brought down a bit. Nothing else screams "rericcurous" to me. That being said, it's fun participating in Strike Night from time to time. I enjoy playing strikes as much as any other ship, especially when they're not mastered and I can get ridiculous stats with them.

 

The problem is it quickly gets boring (because it's the same experience every time), which is why I'm thankful there's so many options available in GSF (and so many ridiculously amusing minigames to play).

[Verain]

That is pretty much exactly what my friend and i do. I run HLC/EMP/protorp on a quell, while he runs protorp on an imperium. If the EMP is dodged, we lock our protons and boom, 1600 to armor. if the EMP hits, it turns off their engine ability for 15 seconds and results in the same 1600 to armor. I almost feel bad doing it, but strike fighter's synergy is so strong it isnt even funny. Most people call them the weakest class in the game, but my scores and overall K/D say otherwise.

 

I have some issues here.

 

First, one of you has to actually lock a missile to get your damned shot. That's time a scout or gunship wouldn't be wasting.

Second, you get the missile lock, leaving them with only their second missile lock. Assuming they don't have distortion missile break (because you assume this for some ludicrous reason, most good targets have a second missile break), then the second guy gets to start locking- again, assuming the targe doesn't LOS.

 

This is frankly absurd to assume, and it is not competitive.

 

If strike 2 was a gunship, he'd be more than able to get a railshot versus the engine component guy.

 

 

 

Strikes do not "stack well". The ability to make an enemy move with right click is not as excellent as making them respawn with quads and pods, BLC and clusters, or slug railgun and a maniacal laugh.

[Kintosi]

I have some issues here.

 

First, one of you has to actually lock a missile to get your damned shot. That's time a scout or gunship wouldn't be wasting.

Second, you get the missile lock, leaving them with only their second missile lock. Assuming they don't have distortion missile break (because you assume this for some ludicrous reason, most good targets have a second missile break), then the second guy gets to start locking- again, assuming the targe doesn't LOS.

 

This is frankly absurd to assume, and it is not competitive.

 

If strike 2 was a gunship, he'd be more than able to get a railshot versus the engine component guy.

 

 

 

Strikes do not "stack well". The ability to make an enemy move with right click is not as excellent as making them respawn with quads and pods, BLC and clusters, or slug railgun and a maniacal laugh.

 

So, let me re-phrase what you just said to make sure i'm understanding correctly.

 

"Your build is dumb because it uses something that has proven to be effective, but that isn't FOTM. Therefor its dumb and you should play FOTM. Having fun is over rated. Go with what makes the other team rage or go home."

 

Did I get that right?

 

EDIT: also, isnt this about strike night? I'm sorry, but what strike has "quads'n'pods" or a railgun? Is there a T4 i'm missing or something? Also, what strikes have distortion field? I'd love a second missile break on strike night.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Kintosi

[Verain]

So, let me re-phrase what you just said to make sure i'm understanding correctly.

 

"Your build is dumb because it uses something that has proven to be effective, but that isn't FOTM. Therefor its dumb and you should play FOTM. Having fun is over rated. Go with what makes the other team rage or go home."

 

No. Not even close.

 

Your build- a strike with proton and EMP- is maybe a bit suboptimal, but it isn't dumb.

 

The problem is this- you are taking a set of coordination and strategy that would be SUPERIOR if executed with better ships, and saying "welp, muh buds an i can stomp sum nubface, looks gud heer!"

 

Double strikes doing silly stuff to land missiles isn't an inherently bad thing, and it can get kills for sure. But the problem is that the comparison isn't "you and your coordinated friends with synergistic strike builds calling targets in vent" versus "randoms on gunships and scouts". But you are arguing with that strawman. You are SHREDDING that strawman!

 

The comparison is "two strikes versus like gunship and scout". Now to that WHOLE MATCHUP, go ahead and apply "solo queuing guys" or "coordinated guys in voice chat".

 

Get it? You can't claim strikes are fine because the most optimal thing you can do with them can beat randoms. Any team can beat randoms in any ship, forever.

 

 

EDIT: also, isnt this about strike night? I'm sorry, but what strike has "quads'n'pods" or a railgun? Is there a T4 i'm missing or something? Also, what strikes have distortion field? I'd love a second missile break on strike night.

 

As it turns out, the posts are not just randomly placed, they follow a chronological order. That means that you might consider reading preceding posts, instead of pretending that we're off topic.

 

 

 

BUT SINCE YOU ASKED:

 

 

That is pretty much exactly what my friend and i do. I run HLC/EMP/protorp on a quell, while he runs protorp on an imperium. If the EMP is dodged, we lock our protons and boom, 1600 to armor. if the EMP hits, it turns off their engine ability for 15 seconds and results in the same 1600 to armor. I almost feel bad doing it, but strike fighter's synergy is so strong it isnt even funny. Most people call them the weakest class in the game, but my scores and overall K/D say otherwise.

 

not to mention the above quell build is basically a hard counter to bombers (except the t3 with powerdive where clusters/conc would be better)

 

This is YOU, man. YOU started this off topic foray!

 

You see, you started saying "This is what my friends and I do on strikes, it's cool." At this point, I was like, yea, that sounds nice for strike night...

 

Then you get to:

 

strike fighter's synergy is so strong it isnt even funny. Most people call them the weakest class in the game, but my scores and overall K/D say otherwise

 

And this is NOT RELEVANT TO STRIKE NIGHT.

 

See, here you state that "OMG STRIKES MUST BE FINE because I do so well!"

 

And that's ludicrous, and off topic, and that's why you are getting eggs thrown at your silly claim that strikes are fine. "I do X on strike night" is reasonable. "I can coordinate and kill a bomber, or other non-strike target, therefore strikes are fine" or "I have a decent KDR and I mostly play a strike, therefore strikes are fine" are both non-sequitur, off-topic, and incorrect.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Verain