Strike Night Musings

[Nemarus]

So yesterday on Ebon Hawk's Strike Night, I played several matches--all of them Domination.

 

In every match, my team had at least 6/8 or 9/12 Strikes. However, our opposition varied--sometimes the Republic brought all Strikes, and sometimes we got a mixed group (which is fine--Strike Night is optional!)

 

What was interesting was that it seemed like it was much easier to win the Strikes vs. Mixed matches than it was to win the Strikes vs. Strikes matches. And this is with relatively comparable pilot skill make-ups.

 

I've actually noticed this phenomenon on every Strike Night. At the start of a match against mixed opposition, the mostly-Strike side will start angsting and complaining that the enemy isn't participating--but then in the end, the all-Strike team usually wins anyway.

 

I've seen others mention the "Strike synergy" too--enough that I think there is something true there.

 

Now, I do want to stress that I played Domination exclusively last night, so I'm only able to speak to that game type.

 

So why might a team of mostly Strikes fair so well against a group of mixed opposition? I think there are several possible contributing factors:

 

1) Missiles ... missiles (and torpedoes) everywhere. Missiles are a core part of Strike offense. Some have Clusters, some have Concussion, and some have Thermites or Protons. When fighting a team of mostly Strikes, you will almost always have multiple people attempting to lock onto you. But you still have only one engine break (and maybe Distortion Field). Thus with each additional Strike, the number of missiles and torpedoes that connect increases dramatically. This makes life for everyone hard, but especially for Scouts, who don't have the Shields and Hull to withstand all that damage, and for T1 and T2 Bombers without any missile breaks.

 

2) Durability. A well built Strike is difficult to kill. It's got the best shields in the game, decent hull, some base evasion, and some base damage reduction. And unlike most Bombers, it usually has an engine-break. Yes, a Bomber can have more raw effective hit points, but a Strike's increased speed and turning radius help it dance around a node more quickly, preventing sustained line of sight from pursuers. And unlike a Scout, which a Gunship can kill or cripple in 1-2 shots, a Strike can take 3-4, depending on its build. This means that it's harder for a Gunship to actually make a significant dent in a Strike team's node defense before the Gunship is swarmed (with missiles). A team of Strikes just collectively has a crap ton of hit points, so clearing them off nodes is hard.

 

3) Response speed. Unlike a Bomber, a Strike can quickly shift from one node to an adjacent node. This adds to the difficulty of clearing a Strike team's node defense.

 

While a Strike is neither as mobile as a Scout or as durable as a Bomber, the combination of strong mobility and strong durability, combined with the stacking synergy of multiple missiles and torpedoes, makes a squad of mostly Strikes difficult to deal with. And because no one Strike is the key to victory, it lessens the impact of a weak link in the chain.

 

I'm not saying I think a lone Strike is balanced against a Scout or Gunship or Bomber. In a 1v1 situation, a Strike will almost always get "out-specialized" by one of the other classes (except maybe Bombers). A Scout will defeat it using its superior mobility and burst. A Gunship will range/kite it. Even a good Bomber pilot can at least force a draw through clever use of terrain, mines and drones.

 

But when you put a bunch of Strikes together, their combined flexibility and versatility forms a very resilient and hard hitting wall. At least in Domination. So next Strike Night, if you see the enemy team isn't participating, don't wuss out and switch to your "safe ship". Trust in the Strike Synergy. It will likely carry you to victory.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Nemarus

[Kuciwalker]

Yes, most ships have a strong (superlinear) scaling component.

 

Strikes scale with missiles.

Gunships scale with covering fire.

Bombers scale with overlapping mines.

 

However I strongly believe that, for instance, an all-gunship team would totally wreck an all-strike team. Hell, I believe that a mixed composition including competent gunships should wreck an all-strike team (were the gunships you faced using ion effectively?).

[Nemarus]

Yes, most ships have a strong (superlinear) scaling component.

 

Strikes scale with missiles.

Gunships scale with covering fire.

Bombers scale with overlapping mines.

 

However I strongly believe that, for instance, an all-gunship team would totally wreck an all-strike team. Hell, I believe that a mixed composition including competent gunships should wreck an all-strike team (were the gunships you faced using ion effectively?).

 

No they were not. I do think Ion Railgun remains a very strong Strike crippler.

 

And honestly, I think a team of T3 Gunships would wreck Strikes too. They've got almost as much shield and hull, and they can get BLC's and Clusters, meaning they can clear a node close up.

[Kuciwalker]

The scarcity of effective gunship pilots (or rather, effective pilots who prefer to fly gunships) makes it really hard to properly evaluate the meta.

[Slivovidze]

And honestly, I think a team of T3 Gunships would wreck Strikes too. They've got almost as much shield and hull, and they can get BLC's and Clusters, meaning they can clear a node close up.

 

While in my Clarion I feel like these little guys with Clusters and BLC's aren't that much of a threat... Shield-heavy build like mine (Directionals, large reactor, Doc) feels like a robust counter to cattlescouts, and so far it seems to work against T3 gunships, too. As soon as they equip Bypass, the day gets a lot worse, of course.

But I feel like I can finish a Protorp lock while someone is pummeling me with BLC's and Clusters from behind, and fly away unscratched.

 

I am not that sure about T1 and T2 strikes though. They aren't that durable, and I don't fly one.

[SammyGStatus]

The scarcity of effective gunship pilots (or rather, effective pilots who prefer to fly gunships) makes it really hard to properly evaluate the meta.

 

Would love to arrange this. Bastion dudes + our crew in GSs vs Eclipse in strikes.... I don't see that going well simply because the AOE of ion + the sheer volume of shots from distance. Even 6 hot dogs and six normal gunships would still present an issue because there would be 6 ion users (and ion is best cc in game.... well interdiction drones are annoying too, but ion aoe really helps solidify the position)

[QuinMantha]

Would love to arrange this. Bastion dudes + our crew in GSs vs Eclipse in strikes.... I don't see that going well simply because the AOE of ion + the sheer volume of shots from distance. Even 6 hot dogs and six normal gunships would still present an issue because there would be 6 ion users (and ion is best cc in game.... well interdiction drones are annoying too, but ion aoe really helps solidify the position)

 

I'm not sure which side I'd sign up for, truthfully...my propensity for Gunnys is butting heads with my proclivity to root for the underdogs.

 

EDIT: Furthermore, though, Nem, your observations are actually frighteningly in line with my own. But for rare, rare exceptions, Strike Synergy has carried the day for Domination matches. The only instance from yesterday currently logged in my memory where a Republic Strike Flight actually lost was a teeth-squealing 1000-998 8v8 clincher that I can only attribute to some concerted, determined flying by two or three enemy Bombers.

Edited June 17, 2014 by QuinMantha

[Verain]

Bad polling conditions IMO

 

 

Many GOOD players run strike night, and ofc run strikes. The players who aren't in on that, and on other ships, are likely not as skilled.

 

I'm not saying that your idea has no merit, and it may in fact be true, just that it's really not a great comparison. I'd be willing to bet that a balanced team would crush an all strike team. I'd be willing to bet that an all scout team would beat an all strike team as well.

[Purrversion]

Would love to arrange this. Bastion dudes + our crew in GSs vs Eclipse in strikes.... I don't see that going well simply because the AOE of ion + the sheer volume of shots from distance. Even 6 hot dogs and six normal gunships would still present an issue because there would be 6 ion users (and ion is best cc in game.... well interdiction drones are annoying too, but ion aoe really helps solidify the position)

 

Hi. Was someone asking for an all gunship team?

[GrovesK]

Two clarions alternating repair probes and with the hydro spanner are almost indestructible in defending a satellite even against bombers. The only tricky part is more shields vs more armor depending on the meta of the enemy using armor bypassing weapons or not.

 

-Mystogyn

[TrinityLyre]

Would love to arrange this. Bastion dudes + our crew in GSs vs Eclipse in strikes.... I don't see that going well

 

That would be a massacre. Skilled gunship pilots already devastate matches alone, it becomes ridiculous when there's more than one. When a gunship knows how to play evasively and has deadly accuracy they are an absolute nightmare. Can't say the same for a skilled strike fighter.

 

RE: Strike-stacking, I think it all comes down to player skill and team coordination. Assuming everything else equal (let's not kid ourselves, this will never, ever be the case), Manglers/Quarrels/VX-9s are versatile and deadly enough to blow away a team of strike fighters no problem. Better short-range weaponry, long-range weaponry and two missile breaks. Bombers on strikes would be exceedingly boring because TTK would be through the damn roof. Battle scouts on strikes? Edge to the battle scouts for being able to instantly waste the opposing players through cooldowns and superior maneuverability.

Edited June 18, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[arrefmak]

Despite less than full participation, I found Strike Night fun, exciting stuff.

I also talked two new players into coming along.

 

Admittedly, once we got hammered by GS and scouts a couple times... there was switching to other ships by both sides.

 

However, the overall experience and play style is still pretty entertaining.

Thanks to those who participated.

[Nemarus]

Despite less than full participation, I found Strike Night fun, exciting stuff.

I also talked two new players into coming along.

 

Admittedly, once we got hammered by GS and scouts a couple times... there was switching to other ships by both sides.

 

However, the overall experience and play style is still pretty entertaining.

Thanks to those who participated.

 

I'm glad you had fun.

 

From the sounds of it, there were 2-3 matches going at any time. Unfortunately, they were aligned in time pretty perfectly, so that the same people kept fighting each other.

 

From what I heard on [Gsf] on both sides, it sounds like I think there were

* one group which had very good participation in both factions

* one group which had good participation on Republic side but mainly new pilots on Imperial side (I kept being put in this group)

* one group which had Imperials who wanted to participate, but who were forced to fall back to other ships due to the Republic side not getting the memo at all

 

Given not everyone reads the forums or is on [Gsf], it is sometimes hard to get the word out, and I still often saw that I was the only one who would gentle remind and encourage in [Ops] chat every match.

 

Also there are still some who claim to want to participate, but fall back to safe ships as soon as they feel they have the slightest justification in doing so. (i.e. "Bobby got in his Scout first, so I had to get in my Gunship to punish him!" ) As though "punishing" or "countering" is ever going to change anyone's mind or encourage them to participate.

 

This is why I say--if you really want Strike Night to be a success, commit to it. Take everything else off your bar. That show of good faith will often help other people make the same commitment over the course of the night. At least, that's how the first few Strike Nights snowballed into having very high participation.

 

Of course, I do think that we have a lot of new pilots trying GSF now, converts from the double-credit period. So make sure to remind them to /cjoin Gsf!

Edited July 8, 2014 by Nemarus

[havokhead]

I had fun last night despite the fact my imp strikes are lousy. Pub side went better for me. I fought the temptation to jump in another ship to be more "competitive" but fought the urge and took my lumps. I just kept telling myself each match was worth 35-45k xp thanks to double xp + another +30% GSF legacy xp buff and minor GSF xp buff

[havokhead]

Ok, I'm one to give credit where it's due & I'd like to thank Gunsheep & the "Bastion cross-server"crew for participating in strike night and maintaining the "community spirit" of the Ebon Hawk, you guys could've easily come on and trolled but you flew in strikes, you still kicked *** but you did it in strikes (at least in the matches I saw) and I'd have to say this past strike night Monday was the most successful so far with upwards of 80-100% of matches I was in using strikes. I just wish I had a descent imperial striker to be a little more competitive

[Nemarus]

Ok, I'm one to give credit where it's due & I'd like to thank Gunsheep & the "Bastion cross-server"crew for participating in strike night and maintaining the "community spirit" of the Ebon Hawk, you guys could've easily come on and trolled but you flew in strikes, you still kicked *** but you did it in strikes (at least in the matches I saw) and I'd have to say this past strike night Monday was the most successful so far with upwards of 80-100% of matches I was in using strikes. I just wish I had a descent imperial striker to be a little more competitive

 

I had limited time, but I'm thrilled to hear this was the case.

 

Perhaps it's time for double-torp Dustmaker night! I kid, I kid.

[havokhead]

Or!! No weapons scout night, we all just follow each other through asteroids and shipyards til the timer runs out. Whoever has the least self-destructs wins. Hah!! I kid, I kid...

 

-J'exx (republic privateer) 55'slinger THE Ebon Hawk

-Stalker (imperial Intellegence) 44 ops THE Ebon Hawk

[tunewalker]

Or!! No weapons scout night, we all just follow each other through asteroids and shipyards til the timer runs out. Whoever has the least self-destructs wins. Hah!! I kid, I kid...

 

-J'exx (republic privateer) 55'slinger THE Ebon Hawk

-Stalker (imperial Intellegence) 44 ops THE Ebon Hawk

 

BETTER YET.... NO thrusters, or abilities night, mouse and throttle only..... Bastion crew has done that once.... its hilarious.

[Nemarus]

BETTER YET.... NO thrusters, or abilities night, mouse and throttle only..... Bastion crew has done that once.... its hilarious.

 

Hmm, trying to decide what the best ship would be for that. Maybe a Quads/Pods/DF Scout? Nice combination of range + speed + evasion.

 

Though HLC's + Concussion Missiles or torps would be good too, since no one can missile break.

 

Or maybe Jurgoran with Directional Shields, Turbo Reactor, Slug and Interdiction Missiles.

 

Is energy management (F1-F3) allowed?

[tunewalker]

Hmm, trying to decide what the best ship would be for that. Maybe a Quads/Pods/DF Scout? Nice combination of range + speed + evasion.

 

Though HLC's + Concussion Missiles or torps would be good too, since no one can missile break.

 

Or maybe Jurgoran with Directional Shields, Turbo Reactor, Slug and Interdiction Missiles.

 

Is energy management (F1-F3) allowed?

 

NO.....

 

There is 1 thing that was allowed when we did it. The T1 Strike could hit the number 1 key once as long as in that match the person had not fired a shot, once a shot was fired what ever primary weapon the T1 strike was using at the time of that firing MUST be used every time you jump on that strike....

 

This was done just in case the main weapon you normally used was accidentally your second one especially on stock ships. You werent allowed to actually use the weapon swap feature, you just had to choose at the start of the match which weapon you were going to use and use ONLY it.

Edited July 16, 2014 by tunewalker

[Nemarus]

NO.....

 

There is 1 thing that was allowed when we did it. The T1 Strike could hit the number 1 key once as long as in that match the person had not fired a shot, once a shot was fired what ever primary weapon the T1 strike was using at the time of that firing MUST be used every time you jump on that strike....

 

This was done just in case the main weapon you normally used was accidentally your second one especially on stock ships. You werent allowed to actually use the weapon swap feature, you just had to choose at the start of the match which weapon you were going to use and use ONLY it.

 

Oh, right. Derp.

 

Still think a Jurgoran would do pretty well though. Could slug most everyone from range... if things got close it's got BLC's, Directional (just for capacity and quick regen), and good turning speed to compete.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Nemarus

[tunewalker]

Oh, right. Derp.

 

Still think a Jurgoran would do pretty well though. Could slug most everyone from range... if things got close it's got BLC's, Directional (just for capacity and quick regen), and good turning speed to compete.

 

I was about to say, remember cant change direction of directionals

 

Its fun it really is. If everyone played it though Gunships MIGHT have to be disallowed as Railguns pretty much would make everything else (since no thrusters allowed) nearly obsolete. when we did so the only couple times we only used strikes and scouts.

 

(which when you take away the Scouts CD's and greater thruster efficiency.... you find quite quickly they are well balanced .)

Edited July 16, 2014 by tunewalker

[Nemarus]

(which when you take away the Scouts CD's and greater thruster efficiency.... you find quite quickly they are well balanced .)

 

I don't doubt it.

 

I would love to see Scouts, and to a lesser extent Gunships, nerfed super hard. Worst thing that happens is Strikes become dominant for a few months... and that honestly would be perhaps the best thing to happen for the game, in terms of getting new people playing and sticking.

[Altheran]

I would love to see Scouts, and to a lesser extent Gunships, nerfed super hard. Worst thing that happens is Strikes become dominant for a few months... and that honestly would be perhaps the best thing to happen for the game, in terms of getting new people playing and sticking.

I wouldn't go as far as saying they should be nerfed "super hard", but considering how fun it is to play a Strike against Strikes, and how much complaints that comes from others, I really can't understand why some want to bring Strikes at others' level, and not the opposite.

 

Well, to be frank, the main "nerf" directed to Scouts I'd do, would actually be an overall buff, mainly beneficial to Strikes... So in a way...

Still, the goal would not be to bring Strikes at the top without dragging down others somehow.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Altheran

[tunewalker]

Whoops did I just accidentally a Derail....