Watchman is still not PvP viable (some suggestions)

[FarizAA]

Devs, thanks for more damage for watchman, but to make this class PvP viable it is not enough. To deal good damage watchman need time, and to get time it shall stay alive for longer, than now. Yes, it has some extra healing abilities, and in theory shall survive better, than combat, but well, in the real PvP situation it does not. Too much stuns and burst in the game, which totally negate these slow 1% heals.

 

To keep this thread constructive, here is what can be done.

 

1. GBTF for watchman -- add to Zealous Ward smaller penalty for GB (When GBTF ends lose 30%/10% of your health).

 

2. Increase healing of Zealous Ward at least to 5% (actually it shall be more). This talent works really bad as it is now, it heals to very small amount, it is on 1.5 sec., long cooldown, and it is attached to something which gives clear visual clue (bubble), and make people to switch of you, which negates its effect.

 

Or (better), make it 2% heal every 1.5 seconds for the duration of Saber Ward even if no one attacked Watchman. It will be granted 16% heal attached to Saber Ward.

 

3. Weakening Wound can give more damage reduction. 5/10% looks ok, and will make Watchman a slightly better dueler (right now it is one of the worst dueler out there). It also will make it more team oriented, because Watchman can work as a doc protector.

 

4. Critical hits can heal to 1.5%. It was 2% before nerf, and it was when generally much less damage was in SWTOR. Making it 2% will be OP probably, but 1.5% seems fine.

 

5. ZEN crits can heal your team for 1% (as it is now), AND add 1% to your crit healing, so when ZEN activated you get +6% of health of total 12% (1% from Merciless Zeal + 1% from ZEN for 6 stacks). Not a huge, but seems logical.

 

6. Make it DoT resistant by adding to some talent a 25%/50% resistance to DoTs (damage reduction from DoTs). This will work only against some classes, but will make a watchman a better dueler against some classes, will generally increase its survivability in WZ, and will slightly move it down the target list in ranked.

 

Any of this, or combination of few can be used to bring Watchman to PvP game.

 

Hope for a discussion here.

[DarrelK]

Looks like someone wants to make Watchman a v2 of Vigilance and the heal-to-full as dps...

[AngusFTW]

It is pvp viable now.. Lacks mobility with slows sometimes but the dmg boost makes up for it tbh, overall its pretty nice currently. Edited June 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[FarizAA]

Looks like someone wants to make Watchman a v2 of Vigilance and the heal-to-full as dps...

 

I clearly do not want this. There is a problem with Watchman as a PvP spec., and you can't add more damage to it (because it has a good damage for PVE already), or make it bursty (because it is not what this tree is about, and it is a Combat tree already). I just want it to be balanced to the level when it will be a justified choice for PvP. It is a class which need some time to start dealing damage, and it shall has this time. It is clear, that this is already understood (that is why this class has a self-heal), but at the moment what it has is not enough. Really, no one need it to be OP. But it shall not be a burden for a team as well.

[FarizAA]

It is pvp viable now.. Lacks mobility with slows sometimes but the dmg boost makes up for it tbh, overall its pretty nice currently.

 

It is not. Check how many watchmans in ranked at the moment. People switched to check this tree from combat and took from shelves their old alts, but after a week Watchmans already back to shelves and combats respected back.

[JouerTue]

i didn't switch from combat at all (1)

 

how many TTK LT sages/sorcs you see?

how many focus/rage players you see?

and scoupratives not healing?

[FarizAA]

i didn't switch from combat at all (1)

 

how many TTK LT sages/sorcs you see?

how many focus/rage players you see?

and scoupratives not healing?

 

So what if not only watchman is broken PvP wise? The more trees are PvP viable, the more variety in PvP. It is a pain to see all the same classes/specs all the time.

Edited June 17, 2014 by FarizAA

[AngusFTW]

Watchman/annihilation are a lot more common on my server since the buff and with good reason.... Lol

[eerinbastile]

Sadly OP you might "just" have a L2P issue on your hands because the spec is fine right now.

[FarizAA]

Sadly OP you might "just" have a L2P issue on your hands because the spec is fine right now.

 

I waited for this comment. Thank you.

 

Anyway, l hope that devs will check statistics after a while, hardly I can do anything more here.

[Metallistic]

Unbelievable... The good players always managed to perform with it in pvp before 2.7. Now it is INCREDIBLY powerful for those who know how to push the spec to its limits. (Been playing watchman since release.)

[Vodrin]

It is pvp viable now.. Lacks mobility with slows sometimes but the dmg boost makes up for it tbh, overall its pretty nice currently.

 

It was quite viable before the recent buffs, if still slightly weaker than combat. Now the gap has closed a bit. I still think the spec could use a method to front load merciless stacks for PvP. If valorous call and it's mirror gave full merciless stacks I think the spec would be about perfect. Although GBTF/ Undying Rage could use a buff for all specs.

[FarizAA]

Unbelievable... The good players always managed to perform with it in pvp before 2.7. Now it is INCREDIBLY powerful for those who know how to push the spec to its limits. (Been playing watchman since release.)

 

Incredibly powerful, you say. Probably those good players do not play at my server, because I have not yet meet a single one. In global ranks best sentinel is at 42nd place, and in top 50 it is only 2. And you can cut my hand out if any of them is watchman. I doubt any watchman is in top 100 as well.

 

But, sure, it does not show the problem. It is clearly TCs L2P issue, and spec is incredibly powerful.

 

I love this forum, really.

 

Again, leaving it to devs. and statistics now.

[AngusFTW]

Stop judging class balance on meaningless yolo queue Edited June 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Rhylass]

Been Watchman in PvP since day one.

 

I am grateful for the last patch, do know how to prevail in BGs and doing fine.

Thank you.

 

FarizAA, don't mind the needless commentaries you got so far.

IMO merciless slash still isn't there where it belongs. Please Devs take a look, watchman still lags behind in PvP.

[DarthOvertone]

Stop judging class balance on meaningless yolo queue

 

Fair point. However, are there any Group Ranked teams consistently running Annihilation/Watchman at the present time? If so, I haven't seen them.

 

My Guild teams are still running Carnage/Combat when we bring a Mara/Sent.

[Vodrin]

Fair point. However, are there any Group Ranked teams consistently running Annihilation/Watchman at the present time? If so, I haven't seen them.

 

My Guild teams are still running Carnage/Combat when we bring a Mara/Sent.

 

I think most are still running combat/carnage. Watchman/annihilation just does not bring enough with it's healing to offset the loss of burst damage, and group buffing you have with combat/carnage. Combat is also significantly harder to kite.

[AngusFTW]

Most of the serious group ranked players left the game with wildstar release however a bunch where running watchman on tofn yday.

Combat/Carnage would still be the go to spec for hard switch setups but for pressure comps watchman def has a place.

Edited June 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Uber_the_Goober]

hue Hue HUe HUE

 

Come PvP with me bro.

 

If I had stronker self-heals...I'd be strutting like Goku with the Super Saiyan swagger....

[PhatMcMuffins]

Fair point. However, are there any Group Ranked teams consistently running Annihilation/Watchman at the present time? If so, I haven't seen them.

 

My Guild teams are still running Carnage/Combat when we bring a Mara/Sent.

 

<Midian> ran DoT cleave madness sin + anni mara and kinda stomped <Clickers> over and over. Granted its Gudarzz, one of the best maras playing the spec he's always loved to play, along with Waka. But who better to showcase the ability of these two specs than these guys?

 

Also, how ya been Alpha? Our playing times haven't lined up for a while unfortunately.

[Obviousenuendo]

the biggest problem sents/mara have is every good move that they need to be useful/viable in pvp doesn't come until all at once around 42-50, which is the end of your class story pretty much,

 

unlike my sage I made, between 27-29 I was an unstoppable god, it was crazy op.

 

but looking at the moves and talents I don't have yet, compared to my OG guardian and every other AC I've played sent's and maras are definitely on the lowest end right now. looking at their abilities they look like gimped gunslingers who have to fight in melee range.

 

compared to my guardian when I was low level with him, my mara feels so slow, never has enough rage or fury to use and force cream and ravage are my only decent attacks, but after that burst you're a sitting duck and then it's all over.

 

examining all anil and ataru spec I notice those trees have a lot of talent point bloat, value's that are very minor at max points or require a lot of points to do something trivial (im looking at you bottom tier 3 point anil talent)

 

I'm not about to say sent/maras are the worst pvp class..maybe they are, but some..NOT A LOT, but some survivability increase is definitely in order. and that's going off of what I see in 55's

 

 

either way you look at it Sage's and sorc's dominate the battle field right now at any level above 15. when you are up against 3 or 5 of them in one match your best option is literally to just leave.

[TheCourier-]

Force camouflage needs to break roots as a base ability. There are way too many roots and snares for marauder to not have a root breaker in 2 specs. Marauder would be 100% fine if the undying rage nerf was reverted, and force camouflage broke roots.

[FarizAA]

It was quite viable before the recent buffs, if still slightly weaker than combat. Now the gap has closed a bit. I still think the spec could use a method to front load merciless stacks for PvP. If valorous call and it's mirror gave full merciless stacks I think the spec would be about perfect. Although GBTF/ Undying Rage could use a buff for all specs.

 

Valorous call giving full merciless in an interesting idea, but it won't happen I afraid. It ruins idea behind the spec -- watchman is like a locomotive, it needs time to build a steam. Also, any further change in Watchman shall be considered from the PVE perspective. At the moment Watchman is totally fine for PVE, and adding more damage to it, straight or thru fast stacks building, will make it OP in PVE.

[FarizAA]

<Midian> ran DoT cleave madness sin + anni mara and kinda stomped <Clickers> over and over. Granted its Gudarzz, one of the best maras playing the spec he's always loved to play, along with Waka. But who better to showcase the ability of these two specs than these guys?

 

Also, how ya been Alpha? Our playing times haven't lined up for a while unfortunately.

 

There are always people who can push classes to their limits. But what will happen if you give such people classes with a better potential? They will clearly get better results. It is a max potential of a class I am talking about.

 

I play Watchman from release as my main, because I like it more, than other classes I played in game. After I came back after a break, I rerolled watchman and played it almost exclusively. Prior to 2.8 it was not easy, though still fun. I think damage changes in 2.8 are nice and needed, they brought Watchman back, but just not back enough PvPwise. Sure, in WZ against random opponents watchman can shine in right hands, but it is still bad choice for ranked.

 

Well, watchman does not require anything major now, just a little love here and there. I think making it last longer is right thing to do, and that giving it more damage is not. Let see where it goes, BW is not great in constant adjustments for a balance sake, they more into fixing things which are clearly broken (or, sometimes, things, which are not), so it may take some time, before they will look back at Watchman. But when they do, I hope they will balance it in par with other specs.

[PhatMcMuffins]

There are always people who can push classes to their limits. But what will happen if you give such people classes with a better potential? They will clearly get better results. It is a max potential of a class I am talking about.

 

I play Watchman from release as my main, because I like it more, than other classes I played in game. After I came back after a break, I rerolled watchman and played it almost exclusively. Prior to 2.8 it was not easy, though still fun. I think damage changes in 2.8 are nice and needed, they brought Watchman back, but just not back enough PvPwise. Sure, in WZ against random opponents watchman can shine in right hands, but it is still bad choice for ranked.

 

Well, watchman does not require anything major now, just a little love here and there. I think making it last longer is right thing to do, and that giving it more damage is not. Let see where it goes, BW is not great in constant adjustments for a balance sake, they more into fixing things which are clearly broken (or, sometimes, things, which are not), so it may take some time, before they will look back at Watchman. But when they do, I hope they will balance it in par with other specs.

 

You missed my point. People who are the best at their class/spec can bring out the full potential. If the full potential is competitive, that is what matters.