Non-force users vs. Force Users

[DarthMurloc]

Like the title suggested, could a non force user stand a chance against a sith/jedi and be able to keep up with the jedi/sith during the fight, or even win? Or would they get pummled to the ground and smashed in mere seconds?

 

Like for example would a mandalorian warrior be able to take down a sith 1v1 without giving the mandalorian the element of surprise? It just seems that force users are a little overpowred in the story compared to the non-force sensitives.

 

And my last question, assume we take one of the absolute best bounty hunters of all time, Boba Fett. And make him face a powerful sith lord like maybe Malak/Malgus/Revan, Boba wouldn't have a chance right?

[Darth_Wicked]

Didn't Jango stand on his own against Obi-Wan?

[Wolfninjajedi]

You guys need to stop making these kinds of threads. << EVERY time I wanna take a break from the forums after my sub, some interesting thread pops up and I'm compelled to resub just to post my thoughts again...

 

At any rate...this all comes down to who you are speaking about.

 

Example OP in your instance?

 

Random Mando vs Random Sith, in a random encounter 1 on 1? Sith will slaughter.

 

Boba Fett vs Malak? Probably Malak

 

Boba Fett vs Malgus? Probably Malgus

 

Boba Fett vs Darth Revan? Probably Revan.

 

It all depends on who you put against. Some Non-Force users CAN defeat Jedi/Sith, but this depending on who said Non-Force user is and who said Jedi/Sith is.

 

Didn't Jango stand on his own against Obi-Wan?

 

No he didn't, well...he did but Jango had a number of things in place for him to do as well as he did.

 

1. Boba helped him out, blasting Obi-Wan with Slave 1's cannons

 

2. Obi-Wan was sent to capture Jango, not kill him.

 

3. Jango's armor protected him from Obi-Wan while H2H and Jango utilized several of his gadgets and BFR'd Obi-Wan off the platform.

 

As per the novel, Jango pretty much flat out stated that he was on the ropes after his missile attack too.

 

Jango Fett slumped back in his seat and breathed a sigh of relief, his expression softening almost immediately. "Well, that was a bit too close," he said with a laugh.

"You smashed him good," Boba replied, his excitement beginning to bubble up again. "He never had a chance against you, Dad!"

Jango smiled and nodded. "To tell the truth, Son, he had me in real trouble there," he admitted. "After he dodged that explosive pack, I'd about run out of tricks."

Boba frowned at first, wanting to argue against anyone ever getting the upper hand on his father, but then, as he considered the moment Jango had mentioned, his frown became a wide smile. "I got him good with the laser cannon!"

"You did great," Jango replied. "You fired at just the right time, and were right there, ready to help me in when it was time for us to go. You're learning well, Boba. Better than I ever believed possible."

 

--Taken from Attack of the Clones

Edited June 12, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Cross_Fade]

The Fetts are the most overrated characters in star wars, in my opinion.

Ask Mace Windu how awesome Jango Fett is.

[Ventessel]

The Fetts are the most overrated characters in star wars, in my opinion.

Ask Mace Windu how awesome Jango Fett is.

 

You deserve a medal for that, my good sir.

[imehiel]

Force sensitives seem liker higher beings, as if partly ascended, thus normally they would stand against any non force sensitives. And that's what makes me a little uncomfortable, rp-wise, about this game- they're all on par. I fully understand the reasons and have nothing against it, it simply sometimes hurts my immersion.

[Beniboybling]

It depends on what they are prepared to do. Against a Sith non-Force users loose 99% of the time because a Sith is prepared to just choke the guy out, and nothing is stopping him. Jedi aren't always ready to resort to such measures.

 

There have been quite a few confrontations between Mando's and Jedi/Sith however. Specifically Pre Vizsla:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWwpJlfzNjQ&t=0m54s

 

 

[DerSchneider]

Only a few non force users have a chance against force users. Generaly 2-3 per movie/game.

If we refer to the clone wars - Kad Bane vs. Obi-wan and Voss, Pre vizsla vs. Maul

KOTOR - Kalo nord vs. Revan & co, but failed many times

Movie - Grievous, Jango vs. Obi-wan.

[Wolfninjajedi]

It depends on what they are prepared to do. Against a Sith non-Force users loose 99% of the time because a Sith is prepared to just choke the guy out, and nothing is stopping him. Jedi aren't always ready to resort to such measures.

 

There have been quite a few confrontations between Mando's and Jedi/Sith however. Specifically Pre Vizsla:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWwpJlfzNjQ&t=0m54s

 

 

 

Ah yes the PIS machine. Cad Bane had some moments too with that..

Edited June 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Nairolfus]

Force users will always have the upperhand, but not every jedi or sith is Revan or Mace Windu.

 

Some exceptionnal non-force users warriors can stand their own against very powerful force users.

 

Harron Tavus bested Darth Angral in a 1c1 fight, per exemple.

[DarthMurloc]

I absolutely love mandalorians and their whole culture (and that's exactly why I'm a Bounty Hunter ingame), but my problem is that it doesnt matter how ****** the writers make them out to be because against a force user they'd get pummeled in seconds (maybe not against a jedi but certainly against a sith lord) and that just squeezes out the fun I have when rp:ing with my mando.

 

And I'm not delusional of course the most powerful force users (Palpatine,Yoda Naga Sadow etc.) would wipe the floor with mandalorians and I'm fine with that. It just bugs me that regular sith/jedis can wipe the floor with them aswell. And the few times when a non-force user has been able to hold his own against a jedi/sith he either got reeally lucky or the jedi/sith wasn't that strong of a fighter

[Wolfninjajedi]

It also depends if said Non-Force User has prep or not, if they know what they are facing, they could plan accordingly to do what needs to be done. However said prep will only go so far and may not always work.

[Setta]

Sorry but it all comes down to the writers, and nothing more. That's how it's always been, and how it will always be. Since all writers have a hard on for force users, then force users win more often then not. In every Star Wars book, or movie, a force user is the main character, and the main character will always win. I suppose I should include Star Wars video games too, like Kotor 1 & 2. I understand that the force is a major aspect of the Star Wars universe but come on people try something a bit more original. However take this game for instance which also has main characters that are not just force users. If you're playing a Trooper, BH, IA, or even Smuggler, you get to go up against a Sith, or a Jedi, and win. Why because that's what the writers want. You might not take on the Emperor as a trooper, but you take on some powerful Sith Lords, and Darths even. Other none force using classes have other high ranking force users they go up against, and win. Again why because the story requires it. It's that simple.

 

Truth be told, I fully believe that plot shields aside, yes a none force user can take on a force user and win. They would need prep, understanding of a force users capabilities, and potentially a little bit of outside help, but it's very possible. General Grievious for instance killed Jedi, and he is not a force user. The only Jedi he failed to kill, were the ones protected by plot. Mandalorians have also taken on Jedi and won, in a number of stories. Again only loosing to the major power players, who were the main characters of said story. If I had it in me to take the time and actually write a book (as well as the okay from well Disney now I guess to do so) I could write a book about how Joe Schmoe, goes through his journey to become a great and powerufl bounty hunter, and in the end, ends up killing the all powerful Godlike Luke Skywalker, and most of his family single handedly because he's just that awesome, and boom it's canon all of a sudden.

[Kaedusz]

I absolutely love mandalorians and their whole culture (and that's exactly why I'm a Bounty Hunter ingame), but my problem is that it doesnt matter how ****** the writers make them out to be because against a force user they'd get pummeled in seconds (maybe not against a jedi but certainly against a sith lord) and that just squeezes out the fun I have when rp:ing with my mando.

 

And I'm not delusional of course the most powerful force users (Palpatine,Yoda Naga Sadow etc.) would wipe the floor with mandalorians and I'm fine with that. It just bugs me that regular sith/jedis can wipe the floor with them aswell. And the few times when a non-force user has been able to hold his own against a jedi/sith he either got reeally lucky or the jedi/sith wasn't that strong of a fighter

 

Nope.

If a mandalorian in really good,he would defeat a regular jedi or sith,unless we are talking about above average force users.

Obi-Wan proved that he is not one of them.

 

In-lore the Emperor's Wrath and Darth Nox would kill any non force user whatsoever in 5 sec, in a perfect scenario.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Kaedusz

[Aurbere]

Unless the non-Force user is really good at what s/he does, Force users will most likely win in most, if not all, situations.

[Dayshadow]

Not every Jedi is a Obi-wan or Mace Windu. Most aren't really that strong in the force and can be killed, even easily, by a bounty hunter or trooper. Even in the movies there were many who died vs. cannon fodder battle droids. The protagonists and antagonists are the elite.

 

That being said, I look at all the non-jedi/sith class as extremely powerful force sensitives with guns. They have to be force sensitive. Heck, their blaster bolts actually turn in mid air to hit their targets . Some of the force user enemies they fight and/or defeat can't be rationalized as just being Sith who only made it because their class on Korriban was full of weaklings. Some of them are fighting Dark Council members or Jedi Masters of great renown. Hence, Chiss is the only viable Agent race Any other race would be dragged to the academy on Korriban. If your agent is not Chiss you are invalidated:) .

 

From the Warrior and Inquistor stories most do seem to be pretty weak in the force and would have probably became Sith if left to themselves without your character there to weed them out. Which is a problem with the Sith way. There is no objective criteria. Weaklings will become Sith as long as they have weak competition. But a potentially stronger person might not make it because his competition is VERY strong. Just like the Warrior's rival. So you end up with better candidates not making it based on circumstances. It's such a waste. Meanwhile the Jedi are getting the full benefit of numbers. Not wasting anything.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Dayshadow

[Wolfninjajedi]

Not every Jedi is a Obi-wan or Mace Windu. Most aren't really that strong in the force and can be killed, even easily, by a bounty hunter or trooper. Even in the movies there were many who died vs. cannon fodder battle droids. The protagonists and antagonists are the elite.

 

That being said, I look at all the non-jedi/sith class as extremely powerful force sensitives with guns. They have to be force sensitive. Heck, their blaster bolts actually turn in mid air to hit their targets . Some of the force user enemies they fight and/or defeat can't be rationalized as just being Sith who only made it because their class on Korriban was full of weaklings. Some of them are fighting Dark Council members or Jedi Masters of great renown. Hence, Chiss is the only viable Agent race Any other race would be dragged to the academy on Korriban. If your agent is not Chiss you are invalidated:) .

 

From the Warrior and Inquistor stories most do seem to be pretty weak in the force and would have probably became Sith if left to themselves without your character there to weed them out. Which is a problem with the Sith way. There is no objective criteria. Weaklings will become Sith as long as they have weak competition. But a potentially stronger person might not make it because his competition is VERY strong. Just like the Warrior's rival. So you end up with better candidates not making it based on circumstances. It's such a waste. Meanwhile the Jedi are getting the full benefit of numbers. Not wasting anything.

 

 

Just because someone is on the Dark Council or a Jedi Master or a Sith Lord or whatever, doesn't make them anymore powerful than anyone else.

 

They have to have sufficient evidence that can back up their standing.

 

Could Non-Force Users take out Jedi Masters/Sith Lords? ....Yeah sure they can, but just to note

 

Titles/Position =/= Skill/Power level.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Sangrar]

the one main weakness I see in Foreusers is that they trust their own power too much. Especially the Sith think that they are untouchable, that they cannot be beaten. They think that with their powers they are untouchable. Meanwhile to survive, a non force user has to be alert at all times, use the right equipment, right skills, maintain a high level of intellect and creativity, hone their reflexes, accuracy, and keep their bodies in the highest possible condition, because they know that all of those contribute to their continued survival, and that is the one weakness I definitely see in force users. The Jedi never thought or dreamed that the Clones were turned on them, as the final season of the Clone Wars showed they began to get suspicious but they did not act on it, they decided to just let things play out, they did not look further, they did not begin to question and look closely at their troops, the only Jedi who looked was Yoda, who realized what was about to happen and killed 2 clones who were dispatched to kill him. Also, the imperial agent storyline,

 

Jadus did not count on the Imperial Agent defeating him and besting him, one of the most powerful dark council members, at all

 

 

also, non-force users can still be chosen by the force, it was no accident Han Solo and Luke Skywalker crossed paths, no accident that Niko Okarr was present during the Sith Empires return to the known galaxy, even a non force user can be guided by the force regardless and have a destiny in front of them, even to best a force user.

 

Lastly, General Grievous, he killed many Jedi in his time, was trained in Lightsaber combat by Count Dooku himself, his cybernetics allowed him to move and react a lot faster than an organic being and even with the reflexes and strength competent against a force user, I know there was this episode of the Clone Wars where a newly minted Mon Calamari Jedi Knight, against his masters warnings, and despite all the evidence of trophies taken from fallen Jedi, faced General Grievous, and lost getting blasted in the chest by grievous who pulled a blaster in a lightsaber duel (which again points to me earlier point of the overconfidence of force users).

 

so yeah thats about it.

[Dayshadow]

Just because someone is on the Dark Council or a Jedi Master or a Sith Lord or whatever, doesn't make them anymore powerful than anyone else.

 

They have to have sufficient evidence that can back up their standing.

 

Could Non-Force Users take out Jedi Masters/Sith Lords? ....Yeah sure they can, but just to note

 

Titles/Position =/= Skill/Power level.

 

Bounty Hunter spoiler

 

 

For Jedi, yes, although in the case of the BH story at the end of chapter one that Jedi Master was a renowned combatant among the Jedi.

 

 

And If you are on the Dark council you are powerful. It's not like the Jedi were your knowledge of the force is more important. The Dark Council may not be the absolute most powerful sith alive, but they aret not weak in the force.

 

Agent spoilers:

 

 

Jadus was referred as the strongest member of the Dark Council and the Agent is able to hold him off.

 

[Wolfninjajedi]

Bounty Hunter spoiler

 

 

For Jedi, yes, although in the case of the BH story at the end of chapter one that Jedi Master was a renowned combatant among the Jedi.

 

 

And If you are on the Dark council you are powerful. It's not like the Jedi were your knowledge of the force is more important. The Dark Council may not be the absolute most powerful sith alive, but they aret not weak in the force.

 

Agent spoilers:

 

 

Jadus was referred as the strongest member of the Dark Council and the Agent is able to hold him off.

 

Yeah I'm not saying that there can't be powerful beings. But it really doesn't matter if someone is on the council or a Master/Lord, it just comes down to what the person has and what they have done.

 

I mean...out of a group of 4 Jedi Masters or Sith Lords, 1 could be that exception of the group and deemed powerful by comparison of the other members of the group solely because the others literally have done nothing that would even warrant them as powerful as the 1 exception.

 

It's all fine and dandy that there are powerful guys as Jedi Masters or Sith Lords and so forth....but title doesn't really mean jack squat if they don't have much to back up.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi