Oversight: NM DF bosses still have same HP

[CycloH]

Yeah, the 50% HP increase to guardians as well as the waves having 5 seconds less each makes Draxus a bigger DPS check, even though the heals check is a joke, and most of the time you dont even have to bother interrupting affliction because its damage is so pathetic.

 

2.8 made Draxus worse for a DPS check while making its healing requirements much easier. I guess the DPS requirements were increased because healers are gonna spend a lot of time DPSing, but I dont think a 50% hp increase and a 9% decrease in time to kill the adds is made up for by having 1 of the healers DPSing.

 

Yeah that's how I feel as well... in dropping the NM buff, we just expected it would ease the difficulty in one area, not necessarily shift it to another group (in this case now it's the DPS). In all honesty, I have no idea what Axiom is saying in that it was a harsh nerf... we had Draxus on farm throughout the entire 2.7 NM Buff (for the most part ), but we have hit a brick wall all of a sudden with 2.8. We are talking about ways to overcome it, but still... for us it is no way near easier... and DEFINITELY no where near a "nerf". I just highly (but respectfully) disagree with using that word here.

 

Honestly, this thread has only talked about HP on Guardians for the most part... but like TACeMossie noted above, there was clearly a change to the timing of the ad phases as well... but why? I don't understand the logic in removing a NM buff, but essentially bringing it back in other ways. I feel that this would be easier to swallow if the Devs would explain their reasoning, as opposed to just saying "it's as intended". That makes me personally feel like my opinion is not important.

Edited June 18, 2014 by CycloH

[-dheco-]

Hey folks,

 

I spoke with the team regarding this, and the health of the bosses in NiM Dread Fortress being left at Nightmare values after the removal of Nightmare Power was intentional. There was some feedback regarding the reversion to Hard Mode values and so the HP was left unchanged.

 

The removal of Nightmare Power does still lower the damage dealt by the bosses.

 

-tait

 

Please can you now go back to them and ask for a detailed explanation to the changes to DF NiM? As it stands none of it makes any sense, you wanted it to more accessible to casual guilds but then left in the dps check that is 9/10 the reason casual guilds cant progress in nightmares. On top of that, add in changes to Draxus that pushes that dps check even further.

 

If you now want it to be like every other Nightmare, then put back in the Nightmare Power and leave it for people to progress as before, if not then change to how you wanted it originally. Stop screwing your player base about with half baked idea's that achieves nothing for either the hardcore or the casual player.

[Bombbuster]

I spoke with the team regarding this, and the health of the bosses in NiM Dread Fortress being left at Nightmare values after the removal of Nightmare Power was intentional.

Yeah right. That doesn't even begin to pass the smell test. And here I thought the lie of the week was going to be "We can't provide the subpoenaed emails because Ms. Learner's computer crashed."

[idnewton]

LOLOLOL - oh, the conspiracy theories...

 

Here's

. At the 10 second mark you will see me target the D-13 Corruption Droid (with the Nightmare Power buff on him) and his whopping 56K HP.

 

Perhaps you should both pay closer attention to your nightmare pulls. You've never noticed that the D-13 droids died faster than the D-15 droids? It's a pretty big difference.

 

Anyway, congratulations on the tinfoil hats. They look great.

 

LOLOLOL - oh, the ignorance...

 

Here's a picture of you being completely wrong. At the 1:12 mark in your video you will see the D-15 Corruption Droid with a whopping 175.5k.

 

Perhaps you should pay closer attention to your nightmare pulls. You've never noticed that the D-15 droid has a completely different HP amount with Nightmare Power off? It's a pretty big difference.

 

Anyways, congratulations on the dunce cap. It suits your attitude.

[Levram]

LOLOLOL - oh, the ignorance...

 

Here's a picture of you being completely wrong. At the 1:12 mark in your video you will see the D-15 Corruption Droid with a whopping 175.5k.

 

Perhaps you should pay closer attention to your nightmare pulls. You've never noticed that the D-15 droid has a completely different HP amount with Nightmare Power off? It's a pretty big difference.

 

Anyways, congratulations on the dunce cap. It suits your attitude.

 

Your reading comprehension skills need a bit of a brush-up.

Yep I'm calling BS, sorry. Zero's melee gold-star has roughly 56k HP, while the ranged one has around 120k iirc. Pretty sure they were both at 120k ish before. Sounds like BW just half-a**'d it and pretends it's intended.

Here's

. At the 10 second mark you will see me target the D-13 Corruption Droid (with the Nightmare Power buff on him) and his whopping 56K HP.

You claimed that the melee Elites (D-13s) had roughly 120K HP when Nightmare Power was on and that it was changed to 56K when Nightmare Power was turned off. I provided you with the evidence that your claim was false. I didn't say a word about the ranged Elite (D-15) droids other than the fact that the D-13s died faster than the D-15s when Nightmare Power was on, which is true.

 

Also, the developers only said that "the health of the bosses in NiM Dread Fortress being left at Nightmare values after the removal of Nightmare Power was intentional." I don't consider an add to be the boss and if they felt like making HP adjustments to the adds, so be it.

 

And the only reason I posted sarcastically in response to you is because you accused the Developers of being "half-a**'d" and lying to the community, when in fact you were the one who was wrong. That's such a productive attitude to hold for your first post in this thread.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Levram

[DarthSpekulatius]

Hey folks,

 

I spoke with the team regarding this, and the health of the bosses in NiM Dread Fortress being left at Nightmare values after the removal of Nightmare Power was intentional. There was some feedback regarding the reversion to Hard Mode values and so the HP was left unchanged.

 

The removal of Nightmare Power does still lower the damage dealt by the bosses.

 

-tait

 

so because you want to keep the challenge you bore healers even more? seriously I'm playing tank all the time but I got to heal it twice and the only difference i noticed compared to hard mode was that I had to be more careful with Supercharge Charged Bolts spam (sometimes SC isn't registered and i end up having to blow my recharge because of it) ?!?

 

haven't healed it since the patch but I've tanked it, damage incoming is a joke, either all get to have fun or no one does.

[Kryand]

TBH this nerf doesn't make any sense. You may as well not have nerfed it at all. Like others have said, healing was never a challenge in any of these fights once you got used to the damage and enemy attack timing. On the other hand, some of the fights with intense DPS checks are still just as intense.

 

Seriously, what the hell was the point? I assumed the point of the nerf was to make the gear more accessible to those who were not up for the challenge of Nightmare Power. In that case you failed miserably. Every single group in that subset was clearing Nefra and wiping on Draxus. But Draxus is actually not any easier, because the only challenge in the first place was meeting the wave 5 DPS check. That DPS check hasn't changed. So in other words, groups that weren't up for Nightmare Power still are never going to see any drop but the implant. This nerf did nothing for the vast majority of players.

 

I suppose the (very) few groups who could kill Draxus but not Grob'thok see a benefit, as Grob'thok is now a solo-tank joke fight. CZ was never a challenge, so forget him. Brontes is definitely a little easier, but any group that can kill her now probably still could have killed her pre-nerf with a little extra practice, because again, the healing was far from the most challenging part of the fight. Aside from that, literally the only other benefit to this nerf is for elitists who got Gate Crasher pre-nerf and like to talk crap about it, because their accomplishment was slightly harder. Kudos for pleasing them, I guess? Except most of them have now quit because of the embarrassing DP NiM deployment, but hey, baby steps.

 

So basically this nerf should never have happened. If the idea was to give added meaning to the Nightmare Power clear titles, let's face it, those titles look dumb (you misspelled conqueror) and are pointless anyway because achievements already come with dates. There are some legit exciting challenges that no longer exist in the game now, like tanking Grob'thok. I only had time to clear it on a DPS and healer, so now I can never take a tank alt through that fight to challenge my tanking ability.

 

But, now that it's too late to take it back without looking like incompetent amateurs (though to be honest, it's a little late to be worrying about that), you may as well go all the way. As it stands now, like I already said, this nerf helped almost no one. If you cut the health a bit to match the damage, you will at least see the benefit of casual groups being able to get 186 gear before the next wave of content, so that you can actually balance the next hard modes to 186 instead of 180.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Kryand

[fushnchips]

The developers in this game have always been 1 step behind, They just can't get anything right if it's Operations, Designing of gear and weapons, getting the correct balance per class but they get the cartel market spot on then again half of the stuff clips and is lacking effort in design. They need to come out and accept they made a bad mistake and fix it because if they continue down the path they are going all players will goto games like Wildstar where the developers are actually pushing out decent content and have great communication with the player base.

[Justbee]

And Tait you wonder why this game is losing serious players in huge numbers for quality games like Wildstar. Sorry to say a game I actually love is really sinking and it's the lack of developer skill and support staff that has put the coffin into the dirt .

 

Wildstar is no quality game, dude.

 

But the problem is, swtor isnt either. and yes its loosing many serious players, in my guild a bunch of ppl cancelled sub ( ) but the problem is a bad lack of playable pve content and the lack of developer info/skill/whatever.

 

waiting 10 month for real content is far too long

[Randor]

Hey folks,

 

I spoke with the team regarding this, and the health of the bosses in NiM Dread Fortress being left at Nightmare values after the removal of Nightmare Power was intentional. There was some feedback regarding the reversion to Hard Mode values and so the HP was left unchanged.

 

The removal of Nightmare Power does still lower the damage dealt by the bosses.

 

-tait

 

I'd like to see who this "feedback" came from, which I'm guessing is the 5-10 guild per server that actually cleared NM DF with nightmare power in place. Not exactly the demographic that should be providing feedback for said operation.

 

SWTOR Dev: "Hey guys, should be change the HP?"

 

A member of the <1% that cleared NM DF: "Heck no. We cleared it at this level, everyone else should too. Don't make it a joke."

 

SWTOR Dev: "OK peace out."

 

Meanwhile, the rest of the non-hardcore raiding guilds (read: more than 1%) are still stuck on DPS-checks.

 

Tait, this might be a topic that needs to be re-opened for discussion, especially with the new HP INCREASES of the guardians in the Draxus fight. Just a thought.

[DarthSpekulatius]

A member of the <1% that cleared NM DF: "Heck no. We cleared it at this level, everyone else should too. Don't make it a joke."

 

SWTOR Dev: "OK peace out."

 

Meanwhile, the rest of the non-hardcore raiding guilds (read: more than 1%) are still stuck on DPS-checks.

 

Tait, this might be a topic that needs to be re-opened for discussion, especially with the new HP INCREASES of the guardians in the Draxus fight. Just a thought.

 

either Way I bet neither Healers nor Tanks were overworked DPS checks are tight and we would have been forced to swap some of our DPS for Draxus if you needed 2 Tanks (luckily there's no reason to use two)

 

but Nefra, Grob, and Zero were perfectly fine the way they were, maybe reduce Grob'add damage by a handful % (faaar less then what they did) (or delay the strong attacks to casts you can run out of/or desyncronize them), increase the duration how long the Fire stays or the time the adds are focused on the tank that got thrown away, but it's nice having a challenge as a tank aside from maximizing you pitiful DPS despite of stuns, knockbacks, switches, and misses so if they want to "keep the Nightmare" they shouldn't change that particular fight at all.

 

I say they turned the wrong screws when they decided to make it easier on the two roles that are challenged far less anyway, it's less fun wiping because of lack of DPS when your challenge isn't any greater compared to HC then if you yourself had more to do then you would in HC.

[Randor]

either Way I bet neither Healers nor Tanks were overworked DPS checks are tight and we would have been forced to swap some of our DPS for Draxus if you needed 2 Tanks (luckily there's no reason to use two)

 

but Nefra, Grob, and Zero were perfectly fine the way they were, maybe reduce Grob'add damage by a handful % (faaar less then what they did) (or delay the strong attacks to casts you can run out of/or desyncronize them), increase the duration how long the Fire stays or the time the adds are focused on the tank that got thrown away, but it's nice having a challenge as a tank aside from maximizing you pitiful DPS despite of stuns, knockbacks, switches, and misses so if they want to "keep the Nightmare" they shouldn't change that particular fight at all.

 

I say they turned the wrong screws when they decided to make it easier on the two roles that are challenged far less anyway, it's less fun wiping because of lack of DPS when your challenge isn't any greater compared to HC then if you yourself had more to do then you would in HC.

 

I agree on Nefra, but can't comment on Grob or Zero because we've never been able to progress past Draxus. The Nefra fight, even with nightmare power, is fine the way it is, as once you learn the mechanics/movements the 'checks' seem to be adequate to make the fight a major step above HM, yet still passable.

 

The more it's discussed, the more it's evident that each fight needs to be adjusted individually, instead of a blanket "less damage" nerf.