Unable to kill in PvP

[Drethius]

So ive been playing Marauder for some time now, tried most types of spec's in PvP and for some reason i am unable to kill say an Assassin/shaow, or for the most part anyone with heavy defence cooldowns. is this really how the marauder is supposed to be? i mean if i attack an assassin he just pops his shield and BAM! Im dead, and there is really not much i can do about it, i know this seems abit selfish but considering that im almost always at the bottom of the lists in PvP and cant really do much about it unless i go and reroll to some other class.

feels like someonee with the Medium armor type should have the advatage over some one with "cloth" armor (light armor) i know this seems stupid to most ppl, but there are just nothing i can do against them not eaven the sorc's (if they have any sort of brain that is), besides im wielding 2 lightsabers wich should give me the advantege over some one with one or a saber staf, and to see ppl rage about marauders being to over powerd has just resulting in the class being nerfed to oblivion, this is so wrong, we are suppose to be the best melee dps class, seeing as we are pure dps. And for the record - yes i have tried useing all my cooldowns in order to win but that just dont work- are the marauder a broken class? where they so over powerd that no one could beat them? well they should be in the right hands, im not saying im a bad or awsome player im an avrage player. still i stand no chance against some one with stealth or say a juggernaught when it comes to pvp. is this because marauders are getting so much hate that bioware just desided that they should be so nerfed that no one would like to play them again? i rarely see marauders in the 55 pvp, and thats a shame because they are after all the master of saber combat and should be playable as such, but no because that would imply that they would be to over powerd, no they are not if you cant beat an marauder well then he is just you're superior gamer, but as it stands now, doesnt matter how good or bad player you are when you are rolling with an marauder you just get steamrolled where ever you show up in pvp scenarios. is this really what the dev's had in mind when they desinged the class? no i dont think so.

BUT nerfing them becuase people cant handle getting asskicked once or twice by an marauder does not make a good case for nerfing them to oblivion, and also as it stands right now, we dont have any form of "strong" AoE to help out in PvE, what has gone wrong the last 1½ year that made this game so unbalanced in pvp that inorder to be able to win in pvp you MUST have stealth or be in a tank spec? am i just wrong here guys or is this just not working? yes we WAS insanly OP back in the days when the game came out but it got balanced rather fast, and seeing as ppl like the "zerg" tactic in pvp we just dont stand a chance, anywhere, perhaps in PvE where we are superior to some other classes but shouldent that also be the case in PvP?

i can go on alot more about this, but im gonna end this here, and hope that the developers comes with an answer to all these questions, and explain why they decided to just kill the class overall.

do share your experience here and perhaps we can make them realise that we are really pissed about the changes they made with ouer class.

 

and plz do remember to keep it civil, no need to go all nerd rageing on this post, its not worth it, try useing your words and explain why you are so mad at ppl (yes haters gonna hate) but show them your PoV and perhaps change their minds

[twotilmidnite]

Didn't read the whole post, but from what I did read - It's all a matter of knowing the matchup. Sometimes it helps playing the lass to learn their strengths and weaknesses. It's one of the reasons I can absolutely obliterate Sins/Shadows (My original main before I went on a bit of a hiatus was a Sin), but I always have trouble with DPS PTs/VGs cuz I've never played them. There's been nerfs, yeah, but just gotta adapt. Some things can't be adapted to, obviously. One thing I would like to see is for Obfuscate to reduce Tech and Force accuracy as well. Maybe not as much as ranged or melee, but maybe shave off 60% or make us take 30% less from those sources. Also with the way things are going now, I wouldn't mind seeing a reworking of Undying. Maybe revert it to the old way where health is taken at the start of the CD, but reduce our received healing by like 70% or something for 10 seconds. We're a bit weak at the moment, but not unplayable imo. Just fool around a bit more and see how things go.

[JouerTue]

carnage is tricky, but once you know enemies' cds and you jump with a good gor window they melt..obviously on a lone target..guarded players, cross healed healers are an hard kill for any class atm

[Drethius]

ive played all classes and there for knows their weaknesses but when it comes to all the stuns from assassins and shadows there is only so much you can do, and yes i have adapted to the nerfs, but is it really nessesary to make the nerf so hard that its near on imposs to be the victor from a one on one fight? and eaven if there are some one guarded that does not help the case, seeing as guarding someone does not affect the damage you take from the player guarding, and carnage i found is to unreliable in pvp, as it is mostly focus on dishing out alot of dmg while standing still, and that just wont happen in PvP, i does works wonders in the PvE area, however annih does more dmg in pvp to player cause of all the bleeds and has an overall higher dps than carnage.

tho there are many things to take in to account when fighting an stealther, such as they have "vanish" and whatnot. but still seeing as the assassins/shadow's have so much stuns and you can only break one, its bit annoying to not be able to do some sort of dmg on them eaven if they use thier defencive cool's. and sure they need it pve but for PvP? hardly think so.

when it comes to PT's and Vanguards they arent that hard to kill, just make sure you interupt their flamethrower / pulse thingy, and then just keep bashing them and stick on them like fly's on poop

[mtanios]

This can't be anything but trolling...

[Drethius]

This can't be anything but trolling...

 

ok so let me spell it out for you with less words.

is it just me or have the marauders become so weak now days that we cant eaven kill one assassin/shadow in a fair fight? is it wrong of me to think that someone with medium armor are easaly beaten by someone with light armor? was the marauders so overpowerd that theey had to nerf us in to oblivion? hardly not, if you are good at the game you should not have to be punished buy some kids because they cant handle loss, this is just flat out wrong!

and no this is not trolling i just wanna see and know if im the only one that thinks like this, and if not perhaps we can make Bioware realise the error they made with the marauder, yes you might be the guy who sits on a 2k rateing as a marauder, but not every one is on that level of commitment to the game and or choose to persue other aspects of the game but still want to be able to enjoy the gameplay and the class in an player versus player scenario

[Gyronamics]

ok so let me spell it out for you with less words.

is it just me or have the marauders become so weak now days that we cant eaven kill one assassin/shadow in a fair fight? is it wrong of me to think that someone with medium armor are easaly beaten by someone with light armor? was the marauders so overpowerd that theey had to nerf us in to oblivion? hardly not, if you are good at the game you should not have to be punished buy some kids because they cant handle loss, this is just flat out wrong!

and no this is not trolling i just wanna see and know if im the only one that thinks like this, and if not perhaps we can make Bioware realise the error they made with the marauder, yes you might be the guy who sits on a 2k rateing as a marauder, but not every one is on that level of commitment to the game and or choose to persue other aspects of the game but still want to be able to enjoy the gameplay and the class in an player versus player scenario

 

What do you reckon to the theory that the assassin that killed you was a better player. Faster with his keybinds, knew what cooldowns to use and did it without panicking and mashing them all at once.

 

However you reply it can only be your point of view on that fight since the assassin isn't telling us his side and I doubt you have a video of how it played out.

 

Try recording yourself fighting players and giving that as unbiased evidence.

[mtanios]

ok so let me spell it out for you with less words.

is it just me or have the marauders become so weak now days that we cant eaven kill one assassin/shadow in a fair fight? is it wrong of me to think that someone with medium armor are easaly beaten by someone with light armor? was the marauders so overpowerd that theey had to nerf us in to oblivion? hardly not, if you are good at the game you should not have to be punished buy some kids because they cant handle loss, this is just flat out wrong!

and no this is not trolling i just wanna see and know if im the only one that thinks like this, and if not perhaps we can make Bioware realise the error they made with the marauder, yes you might be the guy who sits on a 2k rateing as a marauder, but not every one is on that level of commitment to the game and or choose to persue other aspects of the game but still want to be able to enjoy the gameplay and the class in an player versus player scenario

 

I don't know if your the only one, but i cant tell you i don't agree with you at all. Your saying the class has been nerfed to oblivion? what nerfs except for the undying rage and smash nerf?

 

I do play an Annihilation marauder as one of my alts, i have no problem beating any class in a 1v1.. i don't win all fights because im not the most skilled player alive but i do win like 85% of most 1v1s. You keep repeating the part that Assassins woop your ***, i have to guess that you have problems fighting that class then. I can give you few tips how to deal with them, although i don't know what spec you are playing.

 

- know what stun the Assassin is using on you when he stuns you, don't use your cc breaker on low-slash or spike.

- when he uses Deflection just choke him, that will take off some time of him being harder to hit.

- Use cloak of pain right from the start and and saber reflect if your getting close to 50% hp

- If he uses force shroud (thats when he will look very shiny) dont use force scream or any force skill on him. use white damage instead.

- Try to time your Obfuscate, this will make him miss on Maul or low-slash.

- You can also pop frenzy and bloodthirst from the start to give you that extra edge.

 

I'm not saying you will win every fight with these tips but you have to start learning how to counter Assassins, that's how you shut them down (any class actually). I know it's not easy, cause when i'm on my Assassin i burn down Marauders before they can even react. This doesn't mean Assassins are overpowered, this just means most marauders don't know how to play against them.

 

Also all the nerfs this class got were totally needed in my opinion, pre 2.0 this class was really overpowered. I used to team up with another marauder (both of us rage specced) we would obliterate the entire opposite team. getting damage numbers in a million while other dps classes struggled to get half of that damage. Doing 2v1 and 3v1 even. nowadays only 2v1s are possible and if those 2 players are really bad. So i think the class is finally in par with the other classes.

Edited May 26, 2014 by mtanios

[BRSSW]

"when i'm on my Assassin i burn down Marauders before they can even react."

 

This sums it up the problem right here. Same goes for Operatives.

[Drethius]

thanks for the tips and tricks, ill keep them in mind, and i am rolling annihilation at the moment, and still strugle with most classes, and i do consider myslef an avrage pvper with a lot of room for improvements but still, when assassins opens on you and they stun you for like 10 seconds and the cc breaker is on cooldown im ****ed no matter what and eaven if i do mananage to survive those 10 seconds im still pretty much dead. and this i feel is something that is not compleatly right, altho we are in par with most classes still dont take in to account those classes that are superior to every one els, would be nice to see a bit more defencive or some sort of minor heal that could help get out of tricky situations, perhaps im wrong in this but that just what I feel should be done to the class, not saying that these abilitys should be game changeing just that it would be nice to have some "better" defence for a class that is pure dps, dont get me wrong those few defenses we do have are good and does help alot but still the fact that we dont have ANY sort of self heal, makes it a bit unfair, i know for example that the sniper has one and most other classes have yet none for the marauders, altho we can do crazy bursts we dont have any sort of good survivability. would be nice to see some but they should not be so powerful that we get to be immortal, if you ask me undying is abit op when timed right, i liked the way it was before, also obfuscate seems to only affect melee and not spells and tech abilies, wich in my honest opinion is wrong, i mean if you cant see your target how on earth should you then be able to hit them eaven if you have a blaster or "magic" abilitys :S just doesnt make sense

 

again i thank you for the good advices, i will keep it in mind to next time i go in to pvp

[mtanios]

Not every class can heal itself tho, also as an Annihilation Marauder your dots heal you for 1% of your health when they crit, also Saberward heals you for 2% health every 1.5 sec when you get hit. I would like to see the dot healing change to 2%, as crit rating is much less valuable after 2.0. Just keep watching your opponent's buffs and your own and you'll do much better

[HaoZhao]

ok so let me spell it out for you with less words.

is it just me or have the marauders become so weak now days that we cant eaven kill one assassin/shadow in a fair fight?

 

Deception assassin is the best 1-on-1 class in the entire game. Every class is going to lose to them in a fair fight if the skill of both players are equal. The only spec topping them right now is (some) vengeance juggernauts who are abusing the ED healing that's going to be nerfed in a couple of weeks. The lesson here is that you should not be trying to duel assassins by yourself. Getting into duels is a bad PVP habit in general, but it's particularly bad for marauders. Marauders are more or less a support DPS class. You will excel if you target enemies that are already being targeted by other teammates. Marauders are easily controlled and you'll maximize your potential if you learn to fight enemies who are fighting someone else on your team, so you can avoid all of those nasty controlling effects that will shut down your burst.

 

Carnage is an awesome spec, but it's a terrible spec to learn marauder PVP with. Anything that heavily relies on RNG like carnage does is not a good spec for newbies. Re-spec to rage and you'll almost certainly see an immediate improvement.

[Xertasian]

Deception assassin is the best 1-on-1 class in the entire game..

 

i have to say you is wrong on that statement..best 1 vs 1 spec is vengeance juggs..before they got buff to ED..they could easily kill a deception sin 1 vs 1..

[Aztian]

we are a jooke in pvp

[Lotharofxev]

Due to this thread I've been keeping track of class / DPS in 30-54 WZs. Marauders, without exception, rank near the bottom of all DPS.

[xMaranathax]

Due to this thread I've been keeping track of class / DPS in 30-54 WZs. Marauders, without exception, rank near the bottom of all DPS.

 

Level 30-54 bracket, Marauders won't shine nearly as much as in the 55 bracket. However, Carnage has the best burst in game at the moment aside from possibly concealment operatives.

 

But here's the kicker: Carnage Marauder is not a spec you pick up one morning and start doing amazing damage and killing with it that same night. It takes time, patience, and practice to learn how to properly play a carnage.

 

I've been seeing many posts and comments on fleet about how terrible Marauders have become since 2.7. The thing about it is, all them Smashers don't have an "Easy" button to press and win now. Carnage Marauders are a time devoted class and only those with the patience and skill will stick with it to become good at it. Also, gear plays a big part in Carnage, so just picking up an Obroan set doesn't do. Having the proper amount of Crit, Accuracy, and Surge is a must.

[BRSSW]

Due to this thread I've been keeping track of class / DPS in 30-54 WZs. Marauders, without exception, rank near the bottom of all DPS.

 

I have been doing the same in the 55 bracket while also playing one myself full time in pvp and its the same story. The poster above me is full of crap. They do not "shine" in 55 pvp. Not one single Marauder can get any higher then the bottom of the WZ list or near the bottom at best. This class is no longer the Warrior it once was. Now it is a brutal lesson in frustration and humiliation. Every single class in this game can face roll a marauder now. We cant even handle ourselves in a 1v1 anymore. It is so wrong. I do not know why all other classes have received so much benefits and we have gotten nothing. All classes have multiple CC which you can do nothing about no matter what. Staying on target is harder than it has ever been. This is a big part of the problem because you cannot dps when stunned, rooted. And if you purge one, the opponent has another hard cc to immobilize you again. People saying we have the best defensive cool downs in the game are full of crap. Not one time since my return has saber ward or cloak done anything to protect me. I really am starting to question if these even work anymore at all. I feel like Bio-ware is neglecting / punishing this class and trying to balance it around the assumption that we have a healer covering us at all time which is not the case more often that not. Why are we the only class in the game which is expected to have a full on healer guarding us to even perform? We are supposed to be warriors, we are on the front line of combat not some weak support class that cannot function alone. We have 2 light sabers yet we are routinely out damaged by the others who have one. In today's game Marauder is a complete joke.

 

For the record i played since game launch up until Ancient Hyper Gate patch i think it was, then i took a long break and returned 2 months ago. I never even played hybrid smash or whatever that spec is that people talk about as being easy mode. I always choose a tree and spec it to the top with a few skills at the bottom of the other trees.

[xMaranathax]

If all you are looking at is the numbers at the end of a match, then yes, Marauders will be one of the worst. We have 2 conal abilities, and thats about it for AoE. But I think all of you are forgetting the very short TTK of a Marauder compared to other classes. On top of that, you are forgetting about the utility the class brings to your group. Predation, Blooodthirst, IntRoar to peel for healers, Deadly Throw for helping to peel for healers, etc.

 

The only 1v1 spec that we have is Annihilation, and if you can't win with that, then you should consider rerolling as a jugg. I have 1v2'd several times at grass interrupting the Republic's cap on Civil War spec'd as Annihilation. But here's more food for thought: Aside from duels, you shouldn't ever be in a 1v1 situation. A Marauder left on node guard is fail, simply put.

 

Big numbers don't win matches.

 

I am not saying that we aren't hurting, because I certainly do believe we need help, but its still a viable class for pvp.

Edited May 30, 2014 by xMaranathax

[Lotharofxev]

All classes have multiple CC which you can do nothing about no matter what. Staying on target is harder than it has ever been. This is a big part of the problem because you cannot dps when stunned, rooted. And if you purge one, the opponent has another hard cc to immobilize you again. People saying we have the best defensive cool downs in the game are full of crap. Not one time since my return has saber ward or cloak done anything to protect me.

 

x 1000

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. Something is not right with our "defensive" CDs.

[chosonman]

"when i'm on my Assassin i burn down Marauders before they can even react."

 

You wrote all that other BS when you could have just said this. I play both Sent and Shadow and in a fair fight it's pretty much impossible for me to get beat by a Mara/Sent when I play shadow.

Edited June 2, 2014 by chosonman

[Sarkos]

Here is what you need to stack :

 

[Rowdieranger]

Someday people will learn that PvP isn't about high damage numbers and 1v1's. Until then I will continue farming the bads on both my assassin and mara.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Someday people will learn that PvP isn't about high damage numbers and 1v1's. Until then I will continue farming the bads on both my assassin and mara.

 

Someone needs to start teaching classes on "How To PvP In SW:TOR". Because the people on The Harbinger need to take these classes... Though, everyone should be forced to take a basic IQ test before playing objective based PvP...

[Miston]

Someday people will learn that PvP isn't about high damage numbers and 1v1's. Until then I will continue farming the bads on both my assassin and mara.

 

^This

[Vodrin]

I have been doing the same in the 55 bracket while also playing one myself full time in pvp and its the same story. The poster above me is full of crap. They do not "shine" in 55 pvp. Not one single Marauder can get any higher then the bottom of the WZ list or near the bottom at best. This class is no longer the Warrior it once was. Now it is a brutal lesson in frustration and humiliation. Every single class in this game can face roll a marauder now. We cant even handle ourselves in a 1v1 anymore.

 

This is complete and utter BS. My combat sent is almost always tops in killing blows for my team in a warzone, and my damage is competitive with anything that is not a fluff damage class (I'm looking at you sages). All this and I would say I am merely above average at PvP. Is the class as strong as it once was, no. But it was borderline OP for much of the game's existence. Now it is simply competitive, while being one of the more difficult classes to play well.

 

Also, combat/carnage is not as bad 1v1 as some here have made it out to be. You just have to be comfortable with falling behind and getting the lead back with a well set up burst cycle. You can kill almost any class in 4.5 seconds if you can get them to white bar you when your proc's are up.

 

And please refrain from complaining about how weak the class is until you have at least 830 bonus melee damage. Because combat/carnage is so dependent on burst damage you need this to be strong.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Vodrin