Why do people care about immersion so much?

[Tsillah]

The problem with discussions like this is that a word like immersion actually means different things to different people. I am more like the poster above me, but in the end there are things that are immersion breaking for me as well. What that means to me is that there is too high a level of pop culture into the game's culture. Sure, games are for fun but at the same time, if it's too much like my actual life, why would I need to play a game that mimics what I already have? It's about variety.

 

I used to play Aion years ago but one of the things that really turned me off was the introduction of contemporary clothing in this fantasy setting. At that point I feel immersion is broken for me. I see normal clothing around me all the time. For a Sci Fi style game there is more you can get away with in that sense, but there are things that just cross a border for people and for different people that border is at a different place.

 

What you don't understand is that people have different thresholds for different things. The reason why people care about immersion and you don't is because your borders haven't been crossed and theirs have. There is no right or wrong there, just people who are different from yourself.

[SgtJeremy]

I have always wondered about this question. I understand the feeling that a game should have an overall atmosphere depicting the type of game it is, but I don't understand why people get so upset over small things being "immersion breaking."

 

I play games solely for fun and not to escape problems of life. I have never wanted to be "immersed" in a game world. I can think the story is great, but I never once place myself as the protagonist in the game. It also amuses me when people say things like this game failed largely due to the immersion whereas the most popular game, LoL, is not immersive in the slightest.

 

I'm betting many people cry about immersion so much due to the fact that they want to escape the real world which is honestly sad.

Because I don't play games for the pure enjoyment of pressing buttons/keys. I'd like to get lost in the world that I invested money in. I don't do it to avoid the real world but it does serve as an escape for people who have had a ****** day. Why this deserved it's own thread is amazing, or even warranted being asked at all. But hey who am I to judge?

[Elite-Defender]

I've never understood it either, but I also don't understand why people dress up as anime characters either...

 

For some people it is important and I'm okay with that as long as they realize that the health of the game overall is more important than immersion.

 

I guess you never went to fancy dress parties as a kid.

 

And thats your opinion that the health of a game is more important than immersion. That's just how you prefer to see the game.

 

This game flopped badly and development was slowed down but i still play it because i like star wars

[BrintoSFJ]

I have always wondered about this question. I understand the feeling that a game should have an overall atmosphere depicting the type of game it is, but I don't understand why people get so upset over small things being "immersion breaking."

 

I play games solely for fun and not to escape problems of life. I have never wanted to be "immersed" in a game world. I can think the story is great, but I never once place myself as the protagonist in the game. It also amuses me when people say things like this game failed largely due to the immersion whereas the most popular game, LoL, is not immersive in the slightest.

 

I'm betting many people cry about immersion so much due to the fact that they want to escape the real world which is honestly sad.

 

So you will be perfectly fine if EAWare Introduce a paladin class that use holy magic and stomp the jedi/sith and yells "GOD OF LIGHT give me strength!!"? or an elf druid class that turn into bear or wolf or tiger and yells "Nature is restless!! Nature gives me power!!!"?

[Strajder]

So you will be perfectly fine if EAWare Introduce a paladin class that use holy magic and stomp the jedi/sith and yells "GOD OF LIGHT give me strength!!"? or an elf druid class that turn into bear or wolf or tiger and yells "Nature is restless!! Nature gives me power!!!"?

Something like this?

[BrintoSFJ]

I guess you never went to fancy dress parties as a kid.

 

And thats your opinion that the health of a game is more important than immersion. That's just how you prefer to see the game.

 

This game flopped badly and development was slowed down but i still play it because i like star wars

 

If the game did not have name "star wars" then it would have died a long time ago. you are the 1st one to admit that you only play because of the name "star wars", rest of the people always try to avoid that topic entirely.

Edited May 25, 2014 by BrintoSFJ

[robertthebard]

Sorry, this point is false. Games like LoL and Dota prove this statement invalid.

 

Do they? So nobody playing those games are playing them to step out of reality for a bit? I read books to take a break from what's going on in my day. Am I hiding from it? No, I'm just taking a break. But if the story isn't any more interesting than my car's technical manual, I won't be reading it long. Something in the story has to grab me, to keep me interested in what's going on in it, aka "immersed". The same is true for gaming. I'm betting that the vast majority of people playing LoL or Dota are just picking up doing in game what they do IRL, are they? They're taking a break from the hustle and bustle world. However, I'd like to see where you're pulling your information from, or is this one of those "out of my arse" claims?

[DeltaBos]

I have always wondered about this question. I understand the feeling that a game should have an overall atmosphere depicting the type of game it is, but I don't understand why people get so upset over small things being "immersion breaking."

 

I play games solely for fun and not to escape problems of life. I have never wanted to be "immersed" in a game world. I can think the story is great, but I never once place myself as the protagonist in the game. It also amuses me when people say things like this game failed largely due to the immersion whereas the most popular game, LoL, is not immersive in the slightest.

 

I'm betting many people cry about immersion so much due to the fact that they want to escape the real world which is honestly sad.

 

For me, at least, I feel connected to my toons. I view them as individuals with individual personalities and lives. For that reason I like them to at least "make sense." I'm not sure if this is what you mean but my logic is: if my toon is a mandalorian, he should wear mando armor and posses mando honor. If my toon is a sigh he shouldn't rub around in biohazard armor and have a pacifist personality. I even care about what my comps where, that their gear makes sense as well. So for me, I just care that all my toons look and act their parts.

[BrintoSFJ]

Something like this?

He was not using **holy magic**, was he? he was using force, despite how lame that "army of light" sounds they were still using force. my question can simply be this : If EAWare simply puts all kind of fantasy creature/race/class/power in SWTOR will OP still say "I don't see the problem"?

[BrintoSFJ]

Do they? So nobody playing those games are playing them to step out of reality for a bit? I read books to take a break from what's going on in my day. Am I hiding from it? No, I'm just taking a break. But if the story isn't any more interesting than my car's technical manual, I won't be reading it long. Something in the story has to grab me, to keep me interested in what's going on in it, aka "immersed". The same is true for gaming. I'm betting that the vast majority of people playing LoL or Dota are just picking up doing in game what they do IRL, are they? They're taking a break from the hustle and bustle world. However, I'd like to see where you're pulling your information from, or is this one of those "out of my arse" claims?

 

DOTA and LoL are pure pvp games and people who are playing them; they play for the sake of pvp not for story or immersion. you don't have to believe me or anyone else; if you have any idea what kind people pvp players are you would not bring those game into this topic of immersion.

Edited May 25, 2014 by BrintoSFJ

[robertthebard]

DOTA and LoL are pure pvp games and people who are playing them; they play for the sake of pvp not for story or immersion. you don't have to believe me or anyone else; if you have any idea what kind people pvp players are you would not bring those game into this topic of immersion.

 

I didn't bring them in, I asked because the person I quoted did. However, I'm betting my premise is right, people in LoL and Dota aren't running around all day killing people and then log in and kill virtual people. BTW, just as an aside, but immersion doesn't have to be tied to story content. PvP can be an immersive experience too.

[Strajder]

DOTA and LoL are pure pvp games and people who are playing them; they play for the sake of pvp not for story or immersion. you don't have to believe me or anyone else; if you have any idea what kind people pvp players are you would not bring those game into this topic of immersion.

People who prefer PvP often neglect immersion, but PvP is not in conflict with it. RP-PvP is possible.

 

Now, I haven't played DotA and LoL, but from what I can see they do have some measure of lore going on with them. Granted, much less in scope than a game with Star Wars in its title, or even other e-Sports games like StarCraft.

[BrintoSFJ]

I didn't bring them in, I asked because the person I quoted did. However, I'm betting my premise is right, people in LoL and Dota aren't running around all day killing people and then log in and kill virtual people. BTW, just as an aside, but immersion doesn't have to be tied to story content. PvP can be an immersive experience too.

Yes they can be, in mmorpg they are immersive, in this game too. people have already explained them in previous posts. But in case of LoL or DoTA or HoN or SMITE or any other MoBA i can not see the immersion; simply because when same champion/hero is fighting on both side the question arises "which side that guy is really on?" or "what the f is going on here? why the hell that guy is fighting himself? and how the hell there are 2 of them? i thought The great giant killer Moronic Beard is one person!!!", in the end all that remains is the thrill of competition, the pvp. MoBA were never developed to immerse the players into a game world, it was always to give players the thrill of competition against another player in a fair ground. comparing moba to mmorpg is like comparing a singer to a carpenter, both are creating art but both are not same.

Edited May 25, 2014 by BrintoSFJ

[BrintoSFJ]

People who prefer PvP often neglect immersion, but PvP is not in conflict with it. RP-PvP is possible.

 

Now, I haven't played DotA and LoL, but from what I can see they do have some measure of lore going on with them. Granted, much less in scope than a game with Star Wars in its title, or even other e-Sports games like StarCraft.

 

Yes each character have some background and each faction too but when the same hero is playing on both faction and fighting each other that can not be considered immersive. see my previous post.

[Jessabeans]

Have you ever been watching a movie, trying to care about the plot and had someone come in and talk over it to tell you about some ascine, unrelated thing? It's like that, some people just want to enjoy their little escape/entertainment time without dealing with unrelated things or outside influence from others. Edited May 25, 2014 by Jessabeans

[Sendrel]

I'm betting many people cry about immersion so much due to the fact that they want to escape the real world which is honestly sad.

 

It sounds less like you're trying understand and more like you're pronouncing judgement.

 

I don't fully understand the complaints about lack of immersion either. And that's ok. The validity or lack thereof doesn't depend on my understanding.

[Rhalius]

Immersion can make or break a game.

 

Rome 1 total war has immersion, Rome 2 does not. To give a good example of it.

 

As for TOR... I feel its too cartoony in many regards. A lot of armor designs are just silly, it often does not look like its from the same universe. Yes its a different time, but KOTOR had it right. The best kind of armors and weaponry for this game are the stuff that looks like it could have been in the movies even though it wasnt in there.

Same kind of art style, you know?

 

It goes for the story too. Most jedi are mary sues, most sith are cartoon villains and everyone but the player is extremely incompetent just to make the player feel extra special.. all common sense is thrown aside for this, often dramatic tension is created to get some light/dark decision even when its not logical.

 

Take the esseless flashpoint for example. WHat kind of idiot would design a ship in a way that when a reactor is reset, everything is blown into space? That doesnt make sense.. also, everyone is very relaxed and casual despite the dramatic situation. Taking their sweet time to talk about a plan. Ironfist isnt doing anything either once securing the bridge.. just waiting there for you to come fight him.

And now compare this with the opening of KOTOR. That's the kind of desperation there should be when a ship is under attack. The music, the dialogue.. it all fits.

 

And esseless is still one of the best flashpoints, most dont even much dialogue or choices.

[robertthebard]

Yes each character have some background and each faction too but when the same hero is playing on both faction and fighting each other that can not be considered immersive. see my previous post.

 

Rather than multi-quote you here, I'm just going to use this quote to point out that the fact that you even thought of this shows that you had some level of immersion to notice the discrepancy. Immersion isn't limited to "I am my character, and am 'the mighty hero of old' ordeal. It can be something as simple as getting into a song, which I have been doing for the last couple of hours, although not just one, just music in general. Just because I'm singing along, or if the guitars are hooked up, playing along, doesn't mean I think I'm the musicians in question, but noticing my neighbors standing at the door is "immersion" breaking.

 

My favorite example of that is that we were having a cookout at a friend's house, and my little band I was trying to have set up our gear in the yard, and were jamming. Everyone else decided to hop on the porch for a beer, and I got "in the zone", and was just jamming to jam. I don't know how long I was lost in the frets, but I came to realize that everyone on the porch was trying to get my attention. I turned around, and there were two cops standing at the fence, watching me play. One of them handed me a card and told me "if you play anywhere local, call me, I want to come see the show, but we have to ask you to turn it down". I was totally immersed in the act of creating music, I couldn't tell you to this day what I was playing, and the cops totally broke it for me.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Sorry, this point is false. Games like LoL and Dota prove this statement invalid.

 

Lands Of Lore ? I played the first game, yes, and found it somewhat immersive.

 

Immersion is important to those of us that need more than a simple "press buttons in this order" experience. If immersion weren't important then we would still be playing text-based RPGs - EVERYONE, whether or not they realize it needs immersion. Without immersion a computer game is nothing but a green light that illuminates when you less the right sequence of buttons. Immersion gives the actions of the player meaning. Those that worry about immersion more are simply those that crave the fantasy and meaning behind what is fundamentally a series of repetitive actions.

 

I agree, but I personally believe that text-based games can create the most immersion - I'm talking of text adventurees here, because everything MUST be rendered in your brain ... graphical stuff is just like fast food, pre-defined so that the brain isn't that much bothered with work ...

 

And, besides, your definition of immersion is why I hate the action-RPG genre so much.

Edited May 25, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Sangrar]

Still I do not think immersion should be written off so easily, it can be fun sometimes to live out a fantasy, as long as you do not get obsessed/crazy with it.

[robertthebard]

Still I do not think immersion should be written off so easily, it can be fun sometimes to live out a fantasy, as long as you do not get obsessed/crazy with it.

 

I think that that's what the issue in this thread is to be honest, the OP doesn't think you can be immersed w/out being obsessive about it.

[Rhalius]

Only people with a complete lack of attention span cannot be immersed in anything.

 

Using movies as an example, immersion can help a great deal, depending on the genre. You don't need to be immersed in most comedies, its simply stuff to laugh at most of the time.

 

However westerns and horror movies are some good examples of where immersion is everything.

 

Dawn of the Dead has rather simple special effects for example, but it somehow manages to capture the atmosphere so well.. the desperation, the struggle for survival. Thats some great immersion there.

 

The typical western takes its time to set the tone, slowly building up tension, making you wonder when it will come to a breaking point. Again, immersion. Hence why the western genre is dead now. These days everything must be fast, shallow and with non stop action.

[Graydon]

Only overweight and lonely people get bent over immersion breaking.

 

Most people give bigger leeway.

[BrintoSFJ]

Rather than multi-quote you here, I'm just going to use this quote to point out that the fact that you even thought of this shows that you had some level of immersion to notice the discrepancy. Immersion isn't limited to "I am my character, and am 'the mighty hero of old' ordeal. It can be something as simple as getting into a song, which I have been doing for the last couple of hours, although not just one, just music in general. Just because I'm singing along, or if the guitars are hooked up, playing along, doesn't mean I think I'm the musicians in question, but noticing my neighbors standing at the door is "immersion" breaking.

 

My favorite example of that is that we were having a cookout at a friend's house, and my little band I was trying to have set up our gear in the yard, and were jamming. Everyone else decided to hop on the porch for a beer, and I got "in the zone", and was just jamming to jam. I don't know how long I was lost in the frets, but I came to realize that everyone on the porch was trying to get my attention. I turned around, and there were two cops standing at the fence, watching me play. One of them handed me a card and told me "if you play anywhere local, call me, I want to come see the show, but we have to ask you to turn it down". I was totally immersed in the act of creating music, I couldn't tell you to this day what I was playing, and the cops totally broke it for me.

 

Nope, i used common sense. i play SMITE simply for the thrill of competition, not for story or lore of the gods; i don't even take the role of the gods i play. i simply just mash skills and fire away/kill away/die away. ohh wait, there is another thing..the sexy goddess...umm...that is for another discussion. but on topic, as for why i thought about it like that was because someone was making a fuss about story and lore in smite and i had to describe it out for him; even though i gave him a even more detailed explanation with scenarios but that is not necessary here.

What we can agree on is that the term "immersion" is different for everyone and immersion is necessary for people to enjoy what they are doing.

[ScarletBlaze]

immortalityftw;7443686]I have always wondered about this question. I understand the feeling that a game should have an overall atmosphere depicting the type of game it is, but I don't understand why people get so upset over small things being "immersion breaking."

 

The reason for immersion is different for each person but most people that care about immersion here could very well grew up with the Star Wars Universe (both movies and books) and when this game was announced they loved the idea of playing in a Star Wars Universe. The people that get upset is not solely because it is immersion breaking so much but that is going against a set of Lore that had been established for the Star Wars Universe, even though the Lore is somewhat changing.

 

I play games solely for fun and not to escape problems of life. I have never wanted to be "immersed" in a game world. I can think the story is great, but I never once place myself as the protagonist in the game. It also amuses me when people say things like this game failed largely due to the immersion whereas the most popular game, LoL, is not immersive in the slightest.

 

You are judging this by your standards and not everyone has the same standards. As someone already pointed out we should never judge another person. I am a roleplayer and so is my boyfriend and my friends and we enjoy that aspect but we also respect other individuals that don't play like us. We accept their playstyle and all we ask is the same courtesy. You may have played a lot of games but for some of us we are quite particular on what games we play. The only other online I have played was SWG. I have tried Wow and STO but I just couldn't get interested in the game as the was nothing in the game that caught my attention so you have to step into someone else's shoes and learn to accept them, which most people are not willing to do.

 

I'm betting many people cry about immersion so much due to the fact that they want to escape the real world which is honestly sad.

 

Again you are judging them. Would you like for the tables to be turn and people to start judging you by the same standards you are applying here. I seriously doubt 99% of the people that care about immersion are trying to escape the real world. Most of us have jobs, families, school and responsibilities and we would never take those things lightly but we also enjoy playing and we may like immersion.

 

Maybe what everyone needs to do is stop judging someone. There is a verse that I live by regarding judging someone:

 

Romans 2:1-3: Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

 

I would suggest to you that even if you don't understand why immersion is so important to others, that you just learn to accept it.

 

 

Have a great Weekend!

Edited May 25, 2014 by ScarletBlaze