A Modest Proposal for Ending the Spamminess of Goldfamers

[Sidenti]

(With no apologies to Swift, because I'm actually serious about this.)

 

This is an offshoot of a discussion about goldfarming in general that I wanted to set aside for in-depth dissection and discussion (if anyone's into that sort of thing - I realize economics isn't EVERYONE'S passion).

 

Lately, the goldfarmer problem on SWTOR has been getting much worse. Last night, the main violator began advertising the sale of in-game craftables and droppables. It's become clear these folks intend to stay.

 

Historically, MMOs have a devil of a time getting rid of goldfarmers. The current favored tactic - tag and bag - puts a pile of work on game developers that could be better spent refining and adding new content. Further, the tactic doesn't work. Goldfarmers just end up making new F2P accounts, powering them through to 10, hitting Fleet and spamming like mad over all channels until they log off (as Bioware doesn't seem to take a very proactive approach to dealing with the problem - and frankly, I can't blame 'em in today's work environment as there's just SO MUCH TO DO!).

 

Goldfarming will not go away. It's a multibillion-dollar-a-year industry globally, one that even has the potential to become an economic driver for many developing countries. That's why these guys are here. There's money to be made, and like the snake-oil salesmen of the Victorian and Industrial Revolution eras, they aren't going away so long as there's someone willing to purchase their product.

 

And there will always be wallet warriors.

 

So. Here we are. Spam on all channels that isn't going away, and is likely to only get worse as the game becomes more and more popular. More spam means either more dev time wasted on enforcing ToS, or more annoyance for US, the players, should Bioware decide they don't have the manpower to spare.

 

My proposal? Legalize it.

 

I can't help but notice the parallels between MMOs' goldfarmer problems and the marijuana criminalization situation that exists in the United States. Pot was and remains, in many places, a huge headache for law enforcement. The American War on Drugs hasn't had the intended effect - instead leading to ballooning incarceration costs, a large number of American individuals with (arguably) unjustifiable stains on their criminal records, even farmers being forbidden from growing hemp, which merely LOOKS like weed (and is far more useful).

 

Colorado recognized this, and legalized marijuana finally. The result? Revenue is up, crime is down. I know, I know. Correlation doesn't equal causation. But it's a helluva coincidence - and one that got me thinking about applying it to goldfarmers.

 

Now, this is just a barebones framework of a proposal. Feel free to bolt on or remove anything you like. That's collaborative brainstorming. But the way I see it?

 

* Added revenue for the developers - EA/Bioware can charge goldfarmers a licensing fee to sell their wares in a specific channel, set aside from the normal channels, that advertises to the wallet warriors. I imagine they'd also want a cut of sales.

 

* We get our Genchat back - Spam sucks. We hate it almost universally (excepting, of course, the few people who profit off that mess - I imagine they don't hate it). Legitimizing goldfarmers would force the legit ones to advert in their own channels, while obligating EA/Bioware to protect its legitimate sellers by being more proactive about blocking illegitimate, unregistered businesses. The result? Communications channels that are far less cluttered with spam.

 

* Some poor bastard halfway across the world gets to eat - As stated above, goldfarming has been identified as an economic method that has strong potential to help developing countries create jobs and bring in much-needed revenue. Why not feed them with the cash of wallet warriors? It's not like their money's doing any good where it is - they're just gonna spend it on something stupid.

 

So, from where I stand, everyone wins except the illegitimate outfits, who will never follow any kind of rules if it stands in the way of profit. Those are the actual enemy here. They're the ones making MMO life quite a bit troubling in regard to communication and commerce. But thanks to the US Treasury's new rules governing virtual currency exchangers, it's now possible to do more than tag-and-flag the worst offenders.

 

Now they can be locked out of participation in the US financial system - a death sentence for any goldfarmer, as they will no longer be able to get paid by the vast majority of the planet.

 

What do you guys think? -bp

Edited May 24, 2014 by Sidenti

[scratcha]

It's one option, though I don't think it will be warmly received.

 

Another option would be working with TOR's existing Cartel Coins (CC) system, but would expand to feature a CC exchange (an added component to the GTN, where players can buy and sell CC for credits). I think this would reduce some of the third-party gold selling, adds an additional revenue stream for BW, and provides those players who choose not to spend real money on the game increased access Cartel items. Arguably, this will affect the in-game economy, but whether that would be detrimental is up for grabs.

 

I'm not fond of legalizing third-party gold-selling because much of their business practice is frequently founded on nefarious activities, like stealing credit card numbers and hacking into players' game, Email, and banking accounts.

[Rankyn]

Personally, I'm more annoyed by all the LFG/WTS/WTB/Recruitment spam in general chat than by the credit sellers.

 

Two clicks of the mouse and the credit seller disappears from my chat but all that other stuff persists.

[Brenfield]

Interesting idea though it seems like it would be a nightmare for Bioware to manage since the illegitimate sellers would probably continue trading but would just lower their prices and sell cheaper than the officially recognized traders.

 

I think a better solution would be to go along the lines of the steam community market whereby players can sell their excess credits for real money to other players and Bioware takes a 10% cut of all the sales. This would solve all the main problems as it would likely price the gold sellers out of the market because the prices would probably be much lower than what they currently are maybe something like 50p per Mill rather than the £5-£6 that the sellers charge. It would also allow the wallet warriors to continue flashing their cash like they are now but rather than the money going to the Chinese mafia it would go to Bioware and other players, generating a new revenue stream for bioware (at a cost of almost no effort on their part) which could be re-invested into the game.

 

The only drawback with this would be that if buying money became so easy that everyone was doing it then it would wreck the in game economy and may require vendor prices to be re-balanced. However this could probably be solved by careful balancing of the prices when setting it up, perhaps a minimum sale price to prevent credits from becoming too cheap.

[Sangrar]

Of course crime is down in Colorado no one is getting arrested for possession and use of marijuana anymore!

[Sidenti]

I like to reply to these things by paragraph within the body of the quote.

 

It's one option, though I don't think it will be warmly received. I'm not surprised - it took decades for the US to even warm up to the idea of legalizing marijuana in certain areas.

 

Another option would be working with TOR's existing Cartel Coins (CC) system, but would expand to feature a CC exchange (an added component to the GTN, where players can buy and sell CC for credits). I think this would reduce some of the third-party gold selling, adds an additional revenue stream for BW, and provides those players who choose not to spend real money on the game increased access Cartel items. Arguably, this will affect the in-game economy, but whether that would be detrimental is up for grabs.It will likely only increase spam activity, if Neverwinter Online's Astral Diamond Exchange is any indicator. On NWO, players can exchange Astral Diamonds (grindable in-game as well as obtainable through their auction house, as AD is the currency it uses) for Zen, Perfect World's premium currency. That game is nothing BUT spam. Doing so may also leave the door open for EA/Bioware to be forced to register as a virtual currency exchanger, which would arguably complicate matters economically. (Registration ain't free; it's relatively new legal territory so there will likely be attorneys' fees involved, etc.)

 

I'm not fond of legalizing third-party gold-selling because much of their business practice is frequently founded on nefarious activities, like stealing credit card numbers and hacking into players' game, Email, and banking accounts. I'm not fond of those practices either, which is why it bears mentioning that legitimized businesses tend to not want to engage in such deeds.

 

Thanks for the input! -bp

[Sidenti]

Personally, I'm more annoyed by all the LFG/WTS/WTB/Recruitment spam in general chat than by the credit sellers.

 

Two clicks of the mouse and the credit seller disappears from my chat but all that other stuff persists.

 

It appears you simply have a problem with communication in general, then. I can't help with that, unfortunately. I hope your situation improves. -bp

[Sangrar]

anyway though this should not be allowed: spam in fleet would get out of control, people could be tricked into using websites that just steal their credit card info, and most of all it comes very very very close if not completely into pay to win considering then someone could pay enough money to then buy everything good on the gtn, buy the credits they need to augment their gear quickly than someone who has to grind, and buy crafted gear off the gtn. It would ruin the in game economy, and should not be allowed.

[Sidenti]

Same format as with the other.

 

Interesting idea though it seems like it would be a nightmare for Bioware to manage since the illegitimate sellers would probably continue trading but would just lower their prices and sell cheaper than the officially recognized traders. This is a true concern. The "bads", so to speak, won't go away. Global economic history has proven this. Virtually every legitimate economic activity has an illegitimate underside. At least with registration, however, Bioware can cease worrying about ALL the goldfarmers and just focus on the ones that aren't part of the program.

 

I think a better solution would be to go along the lines of the steam community market whereby players can sell their excess credits for real money to other players and Bioware takes a 10% cut of all the sales. This would solve all the main problems as it would likely price the gold sellers out of the market because the prices would probably be much lower than what they currently are maybe something like 50p per Mill rather than the £5-£6 that the sellers charge. It would also allow the wallet warriors to continue flashing their cash like they are now but rather than the money going to the Chinese mafia it would go to Bioware and other players, generating a new revenue stream for bioware (at a cost of almost no effort on their part) which could be re-invested into the game. I'm not sure the goldfarming outfits would get on board with that, as it appears (I don't know for certain, though) that Steam Wallet funds can't be converted back into cash. The Wallet appears to act like our Cartel Coins, in the fact that once we buy those suckers we can't convert them back to foldymoney. And the goldfarmers (a few really massive raiding communities aside) are the only ones with the infrastructure to mass-mine virtual items. Since supply can't be consistently assured as a result, I don't know if it would have the effect you seek. But it'd be great if it did.

 

The only drawback with this would be that if buying money became so easy that everyone was doing it then it would wreck the in game economy and may require vendor prices to be re-balanced. However this could probably be solved by careful balancing of the prices when setting it up, perhaps a minimum sale price to prevent credits from becoming too cheap.It's pretty easy to get money NOW. The only difference is that there's hardly any legal recourse available for individuals who get shafted, which - to be honest - is my primary concern. I don't care too much about hindering legitimately working gamers. I DO want to slam the banhammer down on the ones that steal information, cheat players and make the rest of our lives miserable with their constant abuse of the ToS in communications channels. -bp

[TheNahash]

To be honest, I'm surprised gold sellers are interested in SWTOR.

I mean I love the game but cmon...there have to be games with more players than swtor.

[Sidenti]

anyway though this should not be allowed: spam in fleet would get out of control, people could be tricked into using websites that just steal their credit card info, and most of all it comes very very very close if not completely into pay to win considering then someone could pay enough money to then buy everything good on the gtn, buy the credits they need to augment their gear quickly than someone who has to grind, and buy crafted gear off the gtn. It would ruin the in game economy, and should not be allowed.

 

I had addressed these concerns already, but I'll address them again in greater detail:

 

* Spam would likely DECREASE because, as part of this proposal, legitimate third-party sellers who contract with the developer to properly sell their wares will be required to use a channel separate from the in-game communication channels that already exist. Simply turning off that channel - as I imagine the bulk of gamers would do - would hide all that from the player while allowing the legitimate businesses to better target their product instead of having to spray-n-pray with the spam on all channels. This would also help Bioware better and more effectively police the existing channels for illegitimate spam (and, arguably, help them be more proactive at it since the only ones that will advertise in that channel are the ones who don't have a lucrative guaranteed contract to lose).

 

* As part of the program, goldfarmers would also have to reasonably assure their websites are safe. (Actually, this is something they'd have to do anyway as part of registering with FinCEN as a virtual currency exchanger, as any participating in this kind of program would have to do to ensure continued uninterrupted access to the US financial system - the largest in the world.) The biggest risk will continue to be using illegitimate services, and I don't feel too sorry for anyone who gets their account hacked because they chose to go down a dark alley. However, it would be prudent of Bioware/EA to identify and promote the legitimate businesses so at least the reasonably-intelligent consumer has a list of what's good.

 

* I hate to tell you this, but pay to win already exists on SWTOR because these companies are already selling the creds to the wallet warriors. Pay to win's gonna exist anywhere money can be spent, legitimately or otherwise, to gain an advantage. I don't understand it either, but I'm more than willing to get a cut of the proceeds diverted to the game for further development (which I imagine legitimate goldfarmers would encourage, as new content = new stuff for them to sell). I understand it's a distasteful concept, but it is what it is. (It also bears mentioning that wallet warriors are a phenomenal source of revenue.

 

* Generally speaking, regulation helps STABILIZE economies. The US tried lassiez-faire with mortgage lending in the latter parts of the 20th century (and a bit of the 21st), and it was an unmitigated disaster as fly-by-night brokers and lenders dragged the entire WORLD into a rather massive recession (the effects of which are still being felt in many areas of the globe).

 

I'd like to remind you again: they're starting to sell in-game craftables and droppables now. It's only a matter of time before this affects in-game economics anyway. If banning and denials don't work, perhaps it's time to try something else. -bp

Edited May 24, 2014 by Sidenti

[scratcha]

To be honest, I'm surprised gold sellers are interested in SWTOR.

I mean I love the game but cmon...there have to be games with more players than swtor.

 

I think it's largely a matter of economy of scale. The gold sellers already have mechanisms and infrastructure in place. In short, the more MMOs they can service the greater their net profit.

[ZionHalcyon]

Won't happen for one reason.

 

Those illegal gold sites take people's credit card numbers and use them illegally - selling information to other crooks for their schemes.

 

Even if you were to legitimize it, it won't make the bad go away.

 

Just like how Pot is legal in Cali, is the gov. in control of the substance? Nope, the drug cartel is, and police those fields the way they do in mexico - talked with a cop down there where one of the pot farms was in Cali, and a person who dared the guys guarding the crops was found the next day in front of the crops - stacked in pieces. And the cops don't want to get involved with those nutjobs to prosecute for fear of their own lives.

 

The point is, just because you make the bad guys legit businessmen, doesn't mean they're going to stop being bad or stop doing bad things.

[Brenfield]

(In the same format at Sidenti's post)

 

"This is a true concern. The "bads", so to speak, won't go away. Global economic history has proven this. Virtually every legitimate economic activity has an illegitimate underside. At least with registration, however, Bioware can cease worrying about ALL the goldfarmers and just focus on the ones that aren't part of the program."

 

I think the number of goldfarmers that would get licences form bioware would be a tiny fraction of the total farmers so i suspect that it would make little to no difference in terms reducing the workload on bioware.

 

"I'm not sure the goldfarming outfits would get on board with that, as it appears (I don't know for certain, though) that Steam Wallet funds can't be converted back into cash. The Wallet appears to act like our Cartel Coins, in the fact that once we buy those suckers we can't convert them back to foldymoney. And the goldfarmers (a few really massive raiding communities aside) are the only ones with the infrastructure to mass-mine virtual items. Since supply can't be consistently assured as a result, I don't know if it would have the effect you seek. But it'd be great if it did."

 

The main purpose of the system would be to render the goldfarming outfits redundant as individual players will likely sell their credits for a fraction of the price of the farmers due to them not having any running cost to pay. The outfits could still operate but it would be much harder for them to compete.

 

I see the problem however with the steam wallet aspect of it in that the money is stuck in the Swtor game or perhaps bioware (maybe could be used on other bioware games) so maby it would better if this money could then be used for things such as buying subscriptions or CC. but again this would also kill all the goldfarmers as any money they make would be stuck in swtor and so they wouldn't be able to make a profit.

 

"t's pretty easy to get money NOW. The only difference is that there's hardly any legal recourse available for individuals who get shafted, which - to be honest - is my primary concern. I don't care too much about hindering legitimately working gamers. I DO want to slam the banhammer down on the ones that steal information, cheat players and make the rest of our lives miserable with their constant abuse of the ToS in communications channels. -bp"

 

This would be the biggest benefit of having a system like the steam market run by bioware, any transaction done through the market would be covered by corporate law. And if you did get shafted u would know exactly who shafted you and would be able to take legal action.

[Rankyn]

It appears you simply have a problem with communication in general, then. I can't help with that, unfortunately. I hope your situation improves. -bp

No, I'm annoyed by repetitive messages filling up the chat.

In fact, credit sellers clutter the chat less than all the other spammers do especially since there's usually only one of them at a time.

 

The only thing that truly bothers people about the credit seller spam is the "moral outrage" attached to such practices and thus all the threads about the "need to do something about it."

 

If it weren't for that, people would just report them then ignore them and forget about them.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Rankyn

[MrGoldsilver]

As others said, they would still steal account info, and credit cards.

 

Another way is that any account that is caught spamming isn't banned. All their characters are muted in chat, but they don't know it. So they keep on spamming. Sure they can get around this, but it would add one more step. Also bioware should put "Tips" in the loading screen, and some of the "Tips" say the dangers of using 3rd party sites.

[MiaRB]

 

My proposal? Legalize it.

 

 

should shop lifting be legalized? how about stealing cars? or robbing banks? or pirating software?

 

have a problem with crime? just make crime legal. brilliant.

[TheNahash]

I think it's largely a matter of economy of scale. The gold sellers already have mechanisms and infrastructure in place. In short, the more MMOs they can service the greater their net profit.

 

I guess that makes sense.

[Andryah]

I think it's largely a matter of economy of scale. The gold sellers already have mechanisms and infrastructure in place. In short, the more MMOs they can service the greater their net profit.

 

/Agree... particularly since most MMO currency seller are actually just brokers now days.... profiting off the float between a buy price (the price they pay players for credits) and a sell price (the current competitive sell price).

 

And as commented earlier....... there is no way for an MMO to support some 3rd party sellers and deny others. It will just end up in court litigation if they support/allow even one 3rd party seller to sell as an "endorsed" supplier. So this entire thread is pointless really... other then to provide additional thread venue to complain and whine about players performing bannable offenses inside an MMO.... for which currency hawking is no where near the top of the offenses list in this game.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Andryah

[Deewe]

I think it's largely a matter of economy of scale. The gold sellers already have mechanisms and infrastructure in place. In short, the more MMOs they can service the greater their net profit.

Although such activity needs a healthy MMO and TOR doesn't look much like it.

 

Still only the gold spammers can answer that

[Andryah]

credit sellers clutter the chat less than all the other spammers do especially since there's usually only one of them at a time.

 

This has been my experience as well. There is a whole lot more race baiting, personal attacks and nonsensical spam-for-attention in game then credit spam. Which is why I usually have chat channels closed when in places like Fleet, or any other hub.

[Rankyn]

This has been my experience as well. There is a whole lot more race baiting, personal attacks and nonsensical spam-for-attention in game then credit spam. Which is why I usually have chat channels closed when in places like Fleet, or any other hub.

Exactly.

In fact, the only thing that truly bothers me about the credit spam is the poor grammar.

The ignorance and hate vomited into general chat by actual players is so much worse than that.

[Dras_Keto]

*IF* (And by if, I mean, never) EA was going to 'legalise' this, they would just cut the goldfarmers off at the knees and sell the credits themselves. Of course, the second they do that, its basically game over, any legitimacy that TOR has would vanish in the blink of an eye.

[HelinCarnate]

I like how wildstar is planning to reduce the demand for gold farmers/spammers. You will be able to buy 30 days of game time and sell that on the market for whatever the going rate happens to be (similar to Eve online). Want to trade in game currency for real money? Buy 30 days for 15 bucks and sell it to another player. There would be no reason for someone to go buy credits and risk getting banned when there would already be an in game solution.

 

The only hang up here would be people would demand that they make it available for CC which would be a bad move since those are already given away for free to those who sub.

[HelinCarnate]

This has been my experience as well. There is a whole lot more race baiting, personal attacks and nonsensical spam-for-attention in game then credit spam. Which is why I usually have chat channels closed when in places like Fleet, or any other hub.

 

Forgot to mention all the people crying about all the credit spammers. Sure on my tank or healer I can just ignore them too but when Im on my DPS toons I would like to have a FP take less than 2 hours to pop so ignoring everyone who annoys me is a bad move there. I end up just turning chat off on fleet totally.