3.0 New Tank Abilities/Perks Wishlist

[UTlNNl]

Assuming a new level cap of 60 and 5 additional skill points, I'll list two perks and one new ability for each class that would make me giggle and squirm with excitement. Numbers and percents I give are very approximate - don't take them strictly at all.

 

Some of this might be OP and some of it might not be strong enough. I'm very bad with numbers - try to take away the overall ideas

 

[#/#] indicates values increased by committing additional skill points

 

 

 

Assassin

 

Perk 1: Assassin's Acumen

Exiting stealth increases Accuracy by [5%/10%] for 15 seconds; this effect can only occur once every 3 minutes. Additionally increases the stack limit of Dark Protection by [1/2] and increases stacks of Dark Protection granted by exiting stealth by [1/2]. (Passive)

 

Tied to Conspirator's Cloak (requiring both points)

 

Perk 2: Voltage Arcing

Overcharge Saber additionally reduces the damage taken from Force and tech attacks by [12%/25%] over its duration. (Passive)

 

New Ability: Looming Redoubt

Increases armor rating by 20% and reduces all damage done by 30% for 15 seconds. (Instant, 2 minute cooldown)

 

 

Jugg

 

Perk 1: Strong-arm

Increases the threat generated by Saber Throw by [100%/200%]. Saber Throw additionally increases Accuracy by [5%/10%] for the next 15 seconds; this effect can only occur once every 3 minutes. (Passive)

 

Perk 2: Denigrate

The critical chance of Backhand is increased by [50%/100%] on targets affected by your armor reduction. Backhand additionally decreases the damage the target deals by [1%/2%] for 8 seconds (overlapping the 4 seconds of the stun, if applied).

 

Tied to Backhand.

 

New Ability: Cleaving Scream

Activation: 3 second cast. Places a red graphic on the ground in a 10-meter cone during the cast. At the end of the activation cast, all enemies within the 10-meter cone are hit for 3500-4500. Uninterruptible. Generates a high amount of threat. (3 second activation, 5 rage, 45s CD)

 

(Think Raptus' basic attack with the narrow purple graphic... except during the channel you're building up tons of energy, and then letting out an absolutely massive Force Scream.)

 

 

Powertech

 

Perk 1: Ensnare Prey

Increases the threat generated by Grapple by [100%/200%]. Grapple additionally increases Accuracy by [5%/10%] for the next 15 seconds; this effect can only occur once every 3 minutes. (Passive)

 

Perk 2: Combusted Oil

Enemies hit with any fire effects while affected by Oil Slick catch fire, further reducing melee and ranged accuracy by [5%/10%], and burning affected targets for [250/500] over six seconds. Stacks up to two times. (Passive)

 

Tied to Oil Slick

 

New Ability: Thermal Shock

Encases the target in carbonite, then quickly engulfs the target with a burst of flames. Deals 3000 damage over the duration, and leaves the target more vulnerable to elemental and kinetic damage for the next 10 seconds. Lowers the active cooldown of Energy Shield by 2 seconds. Generates a high amount of threat. (2 second channel, 24 heat, 15s CD)

 

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With these rough estimates of the threat generated from the following abilities:

Assassin - Force Pull: 8500 threat

Jugg - Saber Throw: 2700

Powertech - Grapple: 2800

 

The buffs I suggest would increase the threat values:

Assassin - Force Pull: 8500

Jugg - Saber Throw: 8100

Powertech - Grapple: 8400

 

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Any and all feedback welcome. Post your own ideas, too!

Edited May 22, 2014 by UTlNNl

[TACeMossie]

Argh my post dissapeared and im on a tablet

 

Anyway, your as bad as Bioware when it comes to giving PTs new DCDs

 

my changes for PTs:

 

Guard Cannon + Heat Screen moved to Tier 8 (Guard cannon is almost useless untill level 51 anyway), Heat Blast moved to Tier 9 (new tier)

 

Tier 7 consists of Coolant, Shield Overcharge and Shield Charger. Coolant remains unchanged and is in the same 'spot'

 

Tier 8 consists of Emergency Countermeasures, Heat Screen and Guard Cannon

 

Ability Descriptions:

 

SHIELD OVERCHARGE

Active Ability

Increases shield chance to 100% while active, and makes the user immune to Energy/Kinetic Crits while active. 15 second duration, 120 second cooldown.

 

SHIELD CHARGER

Passive Ability, requirea Shield Overcharge.

2 points for maximum effect.

Whenever an attack is shielded, the active cooldowns of energy shield and shield overcharge have a 50/100% chance of being reduced by 1.5 seconds. This can only happen every 1.5 seconds.

 

EMERGENCY COUNTERMEASURES

Passive Ability, Requires Coolant.

Whenever the user is below 35% health and Kolto Overload isn't active, its active cooldown is reduced by 3/6 seconds. This can only happen every 1.5 seconds. Also if a new skill is brought in for the level cap it gets tied into this if used defensively

Edited May 22, 2014 by TACeMossie

[UTlNNl]

Anyway, your as bad as Bioware when it comes to giving PTs new DCDs

 

ha, I guess I tried to compensate for the weaknesses of Sins and Juggs, but continued on the track that PT's are already on, for whatever reason. Fair assessment.

 

I do like your suggestions (Shield Overcharge especially).

[Methoxa]

Overcharge Saber additionally increases Force and Tech defenses by [12%/25%] over its duration. {Passive)

 

Force/Tech attacks can not be defended they are only shieldable

 

ncreases the threat generated by Saber Throw by [100%/200%]. Saber Throw additionally increases Accuracy by [5%/10%] for the next 15 seconds; this effect can only occur once every 3 minutes. (Passive)

 

Even if the thread modifier on Saber throw would be tripled this skill wont be used often as it does too little damage. It also has a big cd and can only be used in ranged combat ( meaning it wouldnt increase your tps ). Even for opening most tanks rarely use it bc in the time you cast saber throw+force jump you already could have casted cb+ret+backhand which will give you far more threat. I would love to see cb also adding a dot on the target which deals about 2-3k damage over 10seconds + reducing the damage of the target by 3%.

 

The critical chance of Backhand is increased by [50%/100%] on targets affected by your armor reduction. Backhand additionally decreases the damage the target deals by [1%/2%] for 8 seconds (overlapping the 4 seconds of the stun, if applied).

 

Backhand is not really a major threat skill. That would be Crushing Blow. Furthermore backhand has a 60sec cooldown ( or 45 sec, not sure) meaning the damage decrease debuff wouldnt be up all the time. Therefore my suggestion to move the debuff to crushing blow, which would ensure that you can debuff more than 1 target all 60 seconds.

 

Activation: 3 second cast. Places a red graphic on the ground in a 10-meter cone during the cast. At the end of the activation cast, all enemies within the 10-meter cone are hit for 3500-4500. Uninterruptible. Generates a high amount of threat. (3 second activation, 5 rage, 45s CD)

 

A three second casttime as a tank is nearly impossible to maintain. In this 3 seconds you would've used 2 attacks +1 ret. Depending on what attacks you would've used those 2 attacks already generate more threat than this new skill. Either make it an instant ( for example using force scream reduces the casttime of this new skill by 1 second, stacking up to 3 times) or make it leave a dot on the targets affected. Besides good juggernaut tanks dont have problems with aoe threat. I dont really see the neccessity of a new aoe spell.

 

The biggest problem of a juggernaut atm is his poor single target tps. Comparing a juggernaut to the other two tanks, juggernauts can pull the best dps on a static encounter ( nefra ) but even if their dps is the highest their tps is poor. A sin who does 1200 dps generates more than 3k tps. A juggernaut tank needs to have 1400 dps in order to achieve 3k tps, which is near impossible on most encounters (exception : Nefra ). Dont forget i am talking about single target here. Conclusion : A Jugger tank wants to use dps armorings on belt/offhand and bracers + dps hilt in order to be on par with the other tankclasses tps-wise.

 

Another downside of the Juggernaut is his bad shield and absorb. Each tankclass besides the juggernaut has a skill that either increases the chance to block or the amount of absorption or even both. The Juggernaut doesnt. Meaning a juggernaut tank doesnt offer good protection against f/t damage. But most bossfights contain these damagetypes ( exception Nefra, Operator, Warlords, Calphayus, Grobthok Nm ). That means that juggernauts take the most dmg on those bosses who are not mentioned under the exception besides Tfb ( his scream can be reflected on all difficulties). So i would love to see a skill that increases shieldchance of the juggernaut. I.e. remove the force scream bubble ( currently in 186 gear it absorbs 1900 damage, near to useless as you can cast about 4 x per minute a force scream absorbing 6700 per min ) and change it so that using force scream will increase your shieldchance by 30% for 12 seconds. Comparable to Dark bulwark of the sin.

 

Otherwise the juggernaut is fine in my opinion

 

I think you did a math error on determining how much threat a saber throw generates :

 

 

Jugg - Saber Throw: 2700

New : Saber throw : 8100

 

Saber throw deal about 1.5k damage. In tank stance that would be 3k Damage. A threat modifier of 3 (100% more threat) would increase the threat of the saber thow to 4500. A modifier of 4 (200% more threat) would increase the threat to 6k . So nowhere close to the other tankclasses rangeattacks. Making it a poor choice regardless of what the modifier will be. Another downside of saber throw is that you cant use it in close combat ( when i started tanking i was thinking about the 2x dps jugger set bonus).

 

Another thing i want to mention here are the poor setboni for juggernauts. The first one increases the duration of one of your def cd's. by 1 second and the duration of the other def cd by 2 seconds (which is a very poor def cd). The other one increases the damage force scream bubble absorbs by 20% ( 400 absorption more) . Sins get 5% shieldchance and 2% dmg reduction. Pt's get a duration buff of both their def cd's and 2% more defense. Comparing the setboni the bonus for the sin is the best, second best has the pt and juggernauts have the weakest. Those setboni are not even vital for a juggernaut making them nearly useless.

 

Nefra NM with setbonus full 180 Merc +operative healer no sorc bubble : 1941 dtps fight length 2min40sec

Nefra NM without setbonus full 180 Merc +operative healer no sorc bubble : 1957 dtps 2min 39sec

 

Def cd's are on cooldown and force scream used all 12 seconds.

 

Setbonus is useless for juggers, make them more vital for juggernauts within the next patches, repair their problems with f/t damage and give them a little more tps and everything would be fine.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Methoxa

[Petnil]

I like the extra accuracy effect. I'd like it even more if it was ready for all pulls. How about instead of a 3 min CD make the reset require you to be out of combat ?

[Kuciwalker]

Force/Tech attacks can not be defended they are only shieldable

 

Yes they can, although the term is technically "resisted".

[tanerb]

Let me guess, you are an assassin tank. Because only that explains the things you are asking for the jugs.

[Methoxa]

Resistance against forece / tech attacks are not improved by shieldrating or defense rating. So you want 25% resistance against force/tech attacks for sins while all other tanks only have the 5% base resistance chance? That would be totally op Edited May 22, 2014 by Methoxa

[UTlNNl]

Force/Tech attacks can not be defended they are only shieldable

Resistance against forece / tech attacks are not improved by shieldrating or defense rating. So you want 25% resistance against force/tech attacks for sins while all other tanks only have the 5% base resistance chance? That would be totally op

 

Ah, I copied parts of the wrong tooltip. Should say, "Reduces the damage taken from Force and tech attacks by 25%" I'll go change that in the OP.

 

 

Even if the thread modifier on Saber throw would be tripled this skill wont be used often as it does too little damage. It also has a big cd and can only be used in ranged combat ( meaning it wouldnt increase your tps ). Even for opening most tanks rarely use it bc in the time you cast saber throw+force jump you already could have casted cb+ret+backhand which will give you far more threat. I would love to see cb also adding a dot on the target which deals about 2-3k damage over 10seconds + reducing the damage of the target by 3%.

 

Force Pull does 0 damage and 8500 threat, and is always the opening move for Sins. It can only be used >10m. Force Pull isn't used to increase the overall TPS over the course of a fight, but to give you a massive lead in threat right at the start of combat.

 

Having to leap afterwards does throw this off a bit if Saber Throw were made the equivalent to Force Pull. I would say make Leap the strangely high threat-generating ability for Juggs and PT's, but it's on a much shorter CD than Force Pull.

 

Backhand is not really a major threat skill. That would be Crushing Blow. Furthermore backhand has a 60sec cooldown ( or 45 sec, not sure) meaning the damage decrease debuff wouldnt be up all the time. Therefore my suggestion to move the debuff to crushing blow, which would ensure that you can debuff more than 1 target all 60 seconds.

 

Backhand generates more threat than anything else a Jugg has other than Crushing Blow. My idea was to make it a mini-defensive CD as well. If the numbers I suggested were too low, either moving it to Crushing Blow would would work with the same numbers, or simply raise the numbers a bunch if it was kept on Backhand.

 

A three second casttime as a tank is nearly impossible to maintain. In this 3 seconds you would've used 2 attacks +1 ret. Depending on what attacks you would've used those 2 attacks already generate more threat than this new skill. Either make it an instant ( for example using force scream reduces the casttime of this new skill by 1 second, stacking up to 3 times) or make it leave a dot on the targets affected. Besides good juggernaut tanks dont have problems with aoe threat. I dont really see the neccessity of a new aoe spell.

 

Ravage, Lightning, and (unprocced) Flamethrower are all 3 second casts that tanks have and use in their normal rotations. Juggs have no 10-meter abilities like the other two tanks do (other than Saber Throw), and Jugg AoE is currently limited to melee range (not counting Saber Reflect and clever usage of Crushing Blow)

 

The biggest problem of a juggernaut atm is his poor single target tps.

 

If Juggs' new ability is a "Generates a high amount of threat" ability with an extra multiplier, it might be enough to offset that.

 

Another downside of the Juggernaut is his bad shield and absorb. Each tankclass besides the juggernaut has a skill that either increases the chance to block or the amount of absorption or even both.

 

I think the Dev's intend Juggs and Sins to be opposites like that. I agree Juggs would need a shield/abs buff or CD, but I don't think Juggs would get something new just for that. It might happen that one of their current DCD's could be changed towards shield/abs

 

 

I think you did a math error on determining how much threat a saber throw generates :

 

Yes, I'm horrendous at maths. A 100% increase means twice the original, and a 200% increase means thrice, I thought? Idk. Just make it so that Saber Throw is a mirror to Force Pull's crazy threat boost at the start of combat, haha.

 

Thanks for your input!

 

I like the extra accuracy effect. I'd like it even more if it was ready for all pulls. How about instead of a 3 min CD make the reset require you to be out of combat ?

 

Thanks! I'm tired of having to worry about the "perfect storm" where you execute your rotation perfectly during your opener, but can still lose aggro if you miss/resist and your DPS get lucky with crits.

 

Having it reset when combat is over would work as well. Some long fights like Draxus though with multiple targets, you might want it more than once. How about 3 minutes or combat reset - whichever comes first?

 

Let me guess, you are an assassin tank. Because only that explains the things you are asking for the jugs.

 

I run all three tanks. Feel free to post your own ideas.

Edited May 22, 2014 by UTlNNl

[OMGITSJAD]

Jugg

 

Perk 1: Strong-arm

Increases the threat generated by Saber Throw by [100%/200%]. Saber Throw additionally increases Accuracy by [5%/10%] for the next 15 seconds; this effect can only occur once every 3 minutes. (Passive)

 

Perk 2: Denigrate

The critical chance of Backhand is increased by [50%/100%] on targets affected by your armor reduction. Backhand additionally decreases the damage the target deals by [1%/2%] for 8 seconds (overlapping the 4 seconds of the stun, if applied).

 

Tied to Backhand.

 

New Ability: Cleaving Scream

Activation: 3 second cast. Places a red graphic on the ground in a 10-meter cone during the cast. At the end of the activation cast, all enemies within the 10-meter cone are hit for 3500-4500. Uninterruptible. Generates a high amount of threat. (3 second activation, 5 rage, 45s CD)

 

(Think Raptus' basic attack with the narrow purple graphic... except during the channel you're building up tons of energy, and then letting out an absolutely massive Force Scream.)

 

Really like the opening accuracy increasing talents. Just fits nicely as a passive part of some new skill at the second highest tanking tree tier so that DPS/hybrids can't access it. The Backhand buff sounds nice too, not sure if I would prefer it to have the crit buff or a flat cooldown reduction. Probably the same threat result in the long run while one allows better burst while the other allows better sustained. Crit buff would massively increase opening threat so long as the accuracy talent was added as well because it would always hit, while the cooldown buff would allow it to be used more frequently on different enemies. I think I would prefer the crit buff because we already have Smash/Sweeping Slash/Crushing Blow for multiple target threat generation.

 

When you mention Raptus, you made me think of his whirlwind attack. What if we had a move where we charged up for a few seconds and then spun around the battlefield with our saber/sword bashing around destroying everything in our wake? It could even leave a trail of dirt behind us, showing the destruction we did as we moved. It could sort of be like a slightly mobile Orbital Strike that required casting time and a high rage cost prior. I would say 6-8 Rage cost with a 3 second cast time. During the cast, we would stand there and build up anger(while generating some threat during the cast) before finally going berserk and doing a nice bit of AOE damage(and could even give us some damage reduction during the cast as a pseudo short-DCD that hinders your movement speed). Not sure how viable it would even be in PvE because of the cast time, but it would be cool to see and be a real juggernaut-esque skill in my opinion.

Edited May 25, 2014 by OMGITSJAD

[Petnil]

Vanguard tank. I was thinking about an ability to cast a damage reduction shield on a friend. Could be a top tier talent maybe with a reduced cooldown on our own shield linked into it.

 

A talent like that would ofc need to have a fairly long cooldown, 1-3 min. or it would be too good in pvp.

 

Good pvp value, and even pretty usefull for pve in a 2 tank situation.

[Marb]

There is an expectation that with a level cap increase we get a new ability, but I think in some cases they should remove some abilities or merge them with others to make room for a new button.

 

I can think of lots of ways to change or add things to existing abilities for juggernauts, but I can't think of a good reason for an entirely new button to press outside of a dedicated threat drop that isn't tied to the AoE taunt. But then, that really isn't exciting or fun for an expansion ability is it?

 

Chilling scream could be made passive, and we could loose endure pain (or merge some of its effects into enraged defense) to make room for something entirely new, but it's a tough call to make and there is a huge stigma around ability pruning like that.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Marb

[fire-breath]

Resistance against forece / tech attacks are not improved by shieldrating or defense rating. So you want 25% resistance against force/tech attacks for sins while all other tanks only have the 5% base resistance chance? That would be totally op

 

Read again mate, he is saying 25% DTR not 25% DR ;-) Whether its op or not doesn't matter that much. The intent is to provide bioware with ideas. The idea is nice but it needs some finetuning. Which is totally acceptable imo since this is brainstorming and during brainstorming you are never disregarding ideas which are even remotely useable.

 

1 more thing. Guardians and vanguards are not having the same resist DR. To lazy to check the actual numbers but they are different.

[Shraydin]

an across the board tanking ability that redirects x% damage from allies within 20 yds over a short duration say 6 or 8 sec. with a 2 or 3 min. cool down. Would be a good group saving ability for both pve and pvp.

[Grumpftard]

I still like the idea someone had for Sins (and you could make it the top tier talent if they extend the tiers)...the idea to tie Recklessness to an old style self heal on Force Lightning. Makes Recklessness a little more useful, gives the whiners a sense of old days past (but with a CD), and gives us something more akin to a Jugg's Enraged Defense.