PvP'ers get the shaft when it come to money making options!

[ivanhedgehog]

50k would be perfect - 3 wins is stupid.

 

pve missions dont pay out if you fail. pvp shoulldnt either.

[CyberneticDucks]

1 - Well that's a bug... and it's not comparable to the repair costs of PvE.

 

2 - Well they are... you can't compare dying in an Op to dying in PvP.

 

3 - Yeah, but you can only do CZ once per day... It would be comparable if you could only do one Voidstar per day.

 

as for 1, it is a glitch if he has to repair for PvP, i was really confused at first!

 

as for 2, that was exactly what i was trying to point out. in group content, you have to fight a boss many times, and if you die the boss's health fills up again once combat ends (when everyone dies). in PvP, if you die, no biggie, just respawn and hop back in! the only time that isn't true is arenas, which i stated.

 

as for 3, the specifics vary, there are very short group content, and very long warzones like voidstar, which seems to be pretty consistent in its legnth. if teams are evenly matched, a warzone will be bloody, long, and aggravating. if they are really one-sided, boom, its done in a heart beat!

 

generally however, group content is pretty long if you look at the majority of cases, and pointing out just one, short PvE activity, and just one long PvP activity to up your side of the argument like he did is not very effective. thank you for seeing that.

 

still, he does have a point.

[CyberneticDucks]

That would be a pain. Imps suck on my server.

 

i think the (wins count X2, losses are X1) system works perfectly. even if you do lose, you should still always get something.

[Sangrar]

i think the (wins count X2, losses are X1) system works perfectly. even if you do lose, you should still always get something.

 

While still making wins worth something

Edited May 24, 2014 by Sangrar

[robertthebard]

i think the (wins count X2, losses are X1) system works perfectly. even if you do lose, you should still always get something.

 

Why? If I don't complete an Op, I lose money, depending on why, anyway, but if it's due to wipes, definitely I lose money. I've always seen this like "all I should have to do is pick up the dailies, and then turn them in". The argument that "if we don't reward failure, they won't play any more" doesn't really cut it for me. If I were that way, I'd have quit playing chess after my first game, instead of learning how to play through what I did wrong. Yes, you can always find yourself on the wrong side of a face rolling, but there is something to be garnered from that. In this case, it would be "make a group, get them in voice chat, and learn to coordinate". Is it going to guarantee a win? No, there are not guarantees, but it's sure going to make it easier than having 4 John Wayne characters running all willy nilly because they know, no matter what happens, they're going to be rewarded.

 

Isn't that the point of competitive game play? I mean, the main argument against repair costs in PvP is that it's known that you're likely to die. Somebody wins, somebody loses, and the loser doesn't get credit. I see this as actually helping team based instances, in that it encourages team based play. If, as some in this thread have claimed, they spend the whole instance face rolling noobs, then they shouldn't have any problem with this scenario. The other side to this is, of course, that you can run these instances all day long, even if you win. Ops lock you out for a week on a win, and dailies are, of course, done once a day. If somebody can't win three matches in a day, when they have time to dedicate to it, then mechanics of the dailies are the least of their worries.

[GrandLordMenace]

The Title says it all. But see why below... (edited for clarity)

 

Here are a few key points to consider:

 

1. This is a game. A game should be fun for the player and each person should be able to play the way they like without having to feel gimped because they pvp.... I understand that there are many different ways in the game to make money and I do indeed utilize all of them, but I shouldn't be gimped in the pocketbook when I decide to play pvp.

 

2. The difference in money making opportunities- I have decided to limit my example to pve dailies for simplicity:

If I spend the whole day pvp'ing and I put all my comms toward buying pvp credit boxes....I would be lucky to walk away with a total earning potential of 200k for the whole day. If I spend that same day doing pve dailies (and yes I can spend the whole day doing dailies....I have more than one character.) I can make easy 1 million credits and that is pure profit (I have already subtracted repair costs)....but wait... I also get to turn in my basic comms for isotope 5 and sell them at 100k each! In a week it works out to around this:

pvp: Max: 1.4 million for the week.

pve dailies: 8.5 million between daily payout and selling isotope 5's.

 

With less time... I can go to cz-198 and in 15 minutes earn 65-75k easy. In pvp to make that it takes over 2 hours. If I need or want money (which everyone does) why should I make that much less when I am pvp'ing. This only hurts an already hurting pvp queue.

 

3. Sure pvp can make money, but as you can see from above there is a huge difference!

 

4. Why do I a pvp'er want to make money? Um it should be obvious, but I want things. I want to be able to get the new mounts and adaptable gear that comes out. I want to have a guild and be able to afford a few guild bank tabs and maybe a guild ship. I need to have money to switch mods so I can wear adaptable gear. PvP'ers should be able to make a comparable amount when pvp'ing as they do when they are participating in the pve counterpart...... it makes no sense right now considering that on many servers the pvp queue's are very slow- perhaps because we have to leave pvp to go make money doing something else!

 

I am not suggesting anything negative toward the pve'ers. All I am asking is that Bioware would add a PERMANENT way for pvp'ers to have the OPORTUNITY to make near equal to what our pve counterparts can make (minus repair costs).

 

Here is my suggestion on how to add this money making opportunity for pvp'ers...

 

Add a material that is say equivalent to isotope 5 to pvp....purchaseable via ranked comms.

1. Since it is only purchaseable through ranked comms.... all pvp'ers could get them since reg warzone comms can be traded for them, however because of the exchange rate it would take a lot of work to get them.

2. Because pvp ALREADY pays those who do not do so well in the match a lot less.... those who would want to "push a button" for easy money would find it would take them far too long to earn comms.

3. Because ranked pvp comms are only available at lvl 55.....the increase would not affect those in lower levels.

This would not only increase the amount of money available to pvp'ers who are willing to put forth the effort, but it would increase queue pop.....since those who would normally leave to go make money could do so where they are.

 

As a PVPer, you should NOT be making as much money as PVErs for one reason: You barely have to pay repair costs and therefore won't have as much of a usage for credits. Want credits, get them the way everyone else does: dailies and crafting.

[ivanhedgehog]

i think the (wins count X2, losses are X1) system works perfectly. even if you do lose, you should still always get something.

 

If you want parity with pve, you have to be willing to accept the downsides along with it.

[CyberneticDucks]

Why? If I don't complete an Op, I lose money, depending on why, anyway, but if it's due to wipes, definitely I lose money. I've always seen this like "all I should have to do is pick up the dailies, and then turn them in". The argument that "if we don't reward failure, they won't play any more" doesn't really cut it for me. If I were that way, I'd have quit playing chess after my first game, instead of learning how to play through what I did wrong. Yes, you can always find yourself on the wrong side of a face rolling, but there is something to be garnered from that. In this case, it would be "make a group, get them in voice chat, and learn to coordinate". Is it going to guarantee a win? No, there are not guarantees, but it's sure going to make it easier than having 4 John Wayne characters running all willy nilly because they know, no matter what happens, they're going to be rewarded.

 

Isn't that the point of competitive game play? I mean, the main argument against repair costs in PvP is that it's known that you're likely to die. Somebody wins, somebody loses, and the loser doesn't get credit. I see this as actually helping team based instances, in that it encourages team based play. If, as some in this thread have claimed, they spend the whole instance face rolling noobs, then they shouldn't have any problem with this scenario. The other side to this is, of course, that you can run these instances all day long, even if you win. Ops lock you out for a week on a win, and dailies are, of course, done once a day. If somebody can't win three matches in a day, when they have time to dedicate to it, then mechanics of the dailies are the least of their worries.

 

sure, be competetive, do your best, but what if you are getting kicked in the arse? if we don't reward failure, people will quit before they get good enough to win. the key is to reward winning more, but still encourage losers to still play.

[CyberneticDucks]

As a PVPer, you should NOT be making as much money as PVErs for one reason: You barely have to pay repair costs and therefore won't have as much of a usage for credits. Want credits, get them the way everyone else does: dailies and crafting.

 

with the whole ranked/unranked thing the OP was talking about, i really find it stupid that you need 30 unranked comms for 10 ranked, but 10 ranked for 10 unranked. the whole idea of that is like, ***?!

 

(lol, the abreviation for "what the f___" is edited out, i'd imagine three letters already counts as censorship! i hate censorship, especially when it replaces "g0d d@mn" with "gosh darn", that just makes me sound like a politically correct retard!)

 

sure, it encourages people to play ranked, but the encouragement is entirely ineffective. i sometimes queue for ranked for 2 hours a pop, only to get destroyed by the enemy. i had won my first-ever ranked arena, but lost the next 12 or so. i have to "WIN" the damn arenas to get the dailies/weeklies, but that has only happened once in my whole career! so i give up and queue for unranked and everyone is there!

 

by giving up and queuing for unranked, i am hurting the ranked population. now, without me, it is even more likely that the next person will not queue and go to unranked, and this system continues.

 

i think that ranked comms should only be obtainable through unranked, and vice-versa

 

with this, people will be forced to play ranked for ranked comms, and unranked for unranked, evening out the queue population.

Edited May 24, 2014 by CyberneticDucks
it censored me, i have to go and encript it

[CyberneticDucks]

If you want parity with pve, you have to be willing to accept the downsides along with it.

 

what do you mean? i am not trying to make PvE like PvP, that is what the OP wants! if that's what you meant by "parity", i only want things to stay the same. maybe a little adjustments to how things are, but BW can work that out.

 

i do not want to make PvP like PvE, there would be no variation in the game if that was the case!

[robertthebard]

sure, be competetive, do your best, but what if you are getting kicked in the arse? if we don't reward failure, people will quit before they get good enough to win. the key is to reward winning more, but still encourage losers to still play.

 

I answered this in the post you quoted. The encouragement is the carrot. In my day, we didn't get trophies for failing to make the Little League team, and our mom's didn't run to the attorney's office to ensure it wouldn't happen again. PvP is a team based instance. It would behoove all the John Wayne players to learn to PvP as a team. So I see this as being good for PvP, instead of a detriment, because maybe, people will learn how to play.

[LordArtemis]

Yea, personally I don't think the point made about repair costs really holds water. Repair costs exist ACROSS THE GAME except in PVP, however there are tasks in the game that do not pay well AND still have repair costs.

 

So in some cases, casuals get the shaft actually WORSE than PVP players.

 

But I still think, considering the type of gameplay and the likelihood that a PVP player does not participate much in the rest of the game based on their preferred play style (PVP is very different from PVE after all) I think a viable form of income would be fine.

 

My main interest is to boost interest in PVP (this game's PVP system is rather poor IMO), but overall I can see the OPs point.

[Valethar]

PvP gets a whopping two dailies, PvE gets like how many?

 

PvP is a minority of the player base. The Dev team focuses on things that affect the majority first, since that's where the money is.

 

It's like this in most games. If you choose to play a PvE game that has some PvP thrown in as an afterthought, it's not the Dev teams fault if you're not happy with the experience.

[OddballEasyEight]

PvP gets a whopping two dailies, PvE gets like how many?

 

Well, they get two dailies that gets completed automatically by just doing what they usually do... namely playing PvP matches.

It takes no time away from what they like doing and it doesn't disrupt their normal gameplay.

 

PvE dailies tho are doing just that. I can EITHER do a Daily OR play the game the way I like.

There are no dailies for leveling up an alt for example, which happens to be my main form of entertainment.

 

Those PvP dailies just kinda get completed over the regular gameplay.

The closest thing PvE players have to that would be the FP dailies. But those only work for the people who like FP's as their main form of gameplay.

[Superman_AZ]

PvP gets a whopping two dailies, PvE gets like how many?

 

It's a PvE game. Look at how many dailies League of Legends, a pure PvP game has.

[Zoom_VI]

It's a PvE game. Look at how many dailies League of Legends, a pure PvP game has.

 

Its a PvE game therefore a portion of the playerbase should be treated as second class.

 

God I hope you are never a game designer.

 

Also the majority of people PvP with some regularity there are only a minority that do not ever do PvP.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Superman_AZ]

Its a PvE game therefore a portion of the playerbase should be treated as second class.

 

God I hope you are never a game designer.

 

Also the majority of people PvP with some regularity there are only a minority that do not ever do PvP.

 

I would never willingly choose to be a game designer. Excessive whining gives me a headache

 

If the game were PvP-centric, that might be true. But just because some people roll on a PvP server, filled with PvE content, from a PvE game, and choose to spend their time leveling and playing in PvP, does not automatically mean BW should chuck the PvE way of doing things. There are PLENTY of ways to make money in this game that are neither PvE nor PvP specific. We ALL have options, and we ALL have the same choices. If you choose to ignore those options and only demand PvP options, that's on YOU. The other 95% of the gaming community seems OK with the way things are. And, since forums are dominated by a vocal minority, and most players never even step foot in here, I see this thread, and the OP's issue as a First World Problem.

[ivanhedgehog]

I answered this in the post you quoted. The encouragement is the carrot. In my day, we didn't get trophies for failing to make the Little League team, and our mom's didn't run to the attorney's office to ensure it wouldn't happen again. PvP is a team based instance. It would behoove all the John Wayne players to learn to PvP as a team. So I see this as being good for PvP, instead of a detriment, because maybe, people will learn how to play.

 

too many times I have seen the healers in a wz slaughtered with no help from their team, then not 2 min later people are screaming "where are the heals?" part of the problem is that we reward kills, not things like cleanses or bubbles.

[ivanhedgehog]

Its a PvE game therefore a portion of the playerbase should be treated as second class.

 

God I hope you are never a game designer.

 

Also the majority of people PvP with some regularity there are only a minority that do not ever do PvP.

 

do you have any proof of that statement or did you pull that from your nether regions? only the devs know the numbers as to what game styles people prefer. I dont recall you being a Dev.

[MiaRB]

PvP gets a whopping two dailies, PvE gets like how many?

 

pvp has 3 dailies. 4 if you include GSF daily.

[OddballEasyEight]

pvp has 3 dailies. 4 if you include GSF daily.

 

And it should since the OP considers everything not-PvP to be PvE (as in one group and everyone who plays PvE likes everything in the PvE genre)

[Grue_Hunter]

PvPers can make money too. WZ Comms for Credit boxes?

 

The only time those really start to pay off is if you have finished the grind for gear. And even then, the value of the medium credit box from the pvp vendor has not kept up with the price levels in the rest of the game.

[Grue_Hunter]

PvP is a minority of the player base. The Dev team focuses on things that affect the majority first, since that's where the money is.

 

It's like this in most games. If you choose to play a PvE game that has some PvP thrown in as an afterthought, it's not the Dev teams fault if you're not happy with the experience.

 

Well, it was made into a minority by a bunch of early decisions and some subsequent events that has caused a number of players to leave. PvP in this game may not be dying but it is on life-support.

[Elfa]

If PVP is all you do, then you don't actually need credits for much other than armor work. You basically just sit on the PVP mission box and queue up.

[Grue_Hunter]

too many times I have seen the healers in a wz slaughtered with no help from their team, then not 2 min later people are screaming "where are the heals?" part of the problem is that we reward kills, not things like cleanses or bubbles.

 

That's an issue related to the balance between the hp gain/loss of players caused by teammates' actions. At the moment, I'm getting the feeling based on the unranked games I am seeing, that the balance is far in favour of the teams that have more smashmonkeys than healers. This was especially clear yesterday when I was seeing teams with low healers (one or none) but 3 or 4 high level DPS actually beating teams which have two or more healers. (Incidentally, yes, I was on both winning and losing sides - playing everything from tanks to heals to DPS).

 

I won't deny that there's some variance depending on the type of wz and the chemistry of the teams. But I am getting this nagging suspicion that the balance has shifted so far towards DPS that unless the healer is really high-output (800k up), the presence of healers could even be detriment to a team.