Is the F2P/Preffered system too prohibitive, and if so, what should change?

[Styxx]

League of Legends, DotA2, AirMech, Spiral Knights (SK even allows trading of hard currency for soft currency between players), TF2, RIFT, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, Path of Exile. All games where you can literally get EVERYTHING that isn't superficial or superfluous (cosmetics, skins, server changes, etc. Exception is TF2, where there is nothing you can't get for free eventually) for free. Not to mention those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head, there's probably a lot more out there.

 

Then you`re just wasting your time with this highly monetized game, no?

 

I also heard WOW and WOT are free too.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Styxx

[LordArtemis]

Then you`re just wasting your time with this highly monetized game, no?

 

I also heard WOW and WOT are free too.

 

In all fairness that is not a very nice response to the fact that your inaccurate post was corrected (politely I might add).

[Umbura]

...I'd like to introduce you to a little concept called "bandwidth costs". Freeps do indeed cost Bioware money, because Bioware has to pay to host and transmit their services to us, the players.

 

That's nowhere near "free to Bioware". Bandwidth costs, particularly for businesses, can be RIDICULOUS. Also, while it's true freeps and preems don't get in-game service like the subs do, Bioware still employs people to maintain the game for all its players to play. Freeps and preems share in that cost because they play here too.

 

Nothing's ever "free" except advice. -bp

Haha ! Very good joke.

Let me introduce you to an old-school concept called Hitchhiking (1).

Free player are no cost players.

They just pay their ISP for the traffic on the network.

Bioware has already dimensioned the system to respond to the subscriber demand (and a little more). It's already payed by your subscription. Free players just play with the resources that are already payed but unused.

 

Ok maybe the space of a profile in DB. Do you have an idea of the price of a Tera for Bioware ? lol.

Thank you.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Umbura

[Styxx]

In all fairness that is not a very nice response to the fact that your inaccurate post was corrected (politely I might add).

 

I pointed 2 games for a reason - one is THE MMO, which has a free variant too, I`m told, while the other is the number 4 best making money game.

 

As for one of the games on that list, Crossfire, that is a straight PAY TO WIN game: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/20/crossfire-tencents-top-earning-free-to-play-game-youve-never-heard-of/ - and it is only the number one money making game.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Styxx

[BuriDogshin]

As for one of the games on that list, Crossfire, that is a straight PAY TO WIN game: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/20/crossfire-tencents-top-earning-free-to-play-game-youve-never-heard-of/ - and it only the number one money making game.

No, it isn't. The chart in that article shows only revenues from microtransactions. As the article you refer to itself points out, WoW pulls in over $100 million a month from subscription fees alone, do the math, you'll see that WoW gets substantially more revenue from just its subscriptions than Crossfire gets from microstransactions.

[Khevar]

As for one of the games on that list, Crossfire, that is a straight PAY TO WIN game: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/20/crossfire-tencents-top-earning-free-to-play-game-youve-never-heard-of/ - and it only the number one money making game.

Interesting article. I'd never heard of Crossfire before.

 

What saddens me, is how successful that game is (in terms of revenue) with a blatantly Pay to Win microtransaction model. Why would developers listen to people arguing against the idea of P2W, when there are enough people willing to pay almost a BILLION dollars to win.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Khevar

[Styxx]

No, it isn't. The chart in that article shows only revenues from microtransactions. As the article you refer to itself points out, WoW pulls in over $100 million a month from subscription fees alone, do the math, you'll see that WoW gets substantially more revenue from just its subscriptions than Crossfire gets from microstransactions.

 

Have you seen what I was replying to?

[DarthTHC]

Interesting article. I'd never heard of Crossfire before.

 

What saddens me, is how successful that game is (in terms of revenue) with a blatantly Pay to Win microtransaction model. Why would developers listen to people arguing against the idea of P2W, when there are enough people willing to pay almost a BILLION dollars to win.

 

The word you're looking for is integrity.

[Styxx]

The word you're looking for is integrity.

 

You are looking for integrity among some nobodies who`s only achievements come from pixels. They will only care about "pwning noobs / carebears / bads". They are so bad and averse to hard work that they need a fat wallet to do it. To them, that word means nothing.

 

In all fairness that is not a very nice response to the fact that your inaccurate post was corrected (politely I might add).

Also, those games INVITE you to spend money. This one FORCES you. All of them offer some reward for real cash. If forcing is not his thing, then he shouldn`t be here, or play those very free games he linked. He already thinks the sub is P2W.

 

Interesting article. I'd never heard of Crossfire before.

 

What saddens me, is how successful that game is (in terms of revenue) with a blatantly Pay to Win microtransaction model. Why would developers listen to people arguing against the idea of P2W, when there are enough people willing to pay almost a BILLION dollars to win.

If this game will start selling +60 crystals it will probably double it`s revenue. The usual suspects will just flock the forums in disgust, only to spend small fortunes to gamble or buy some of them ingame. I know a certain vanguard that`s on the FIFTH page on PoT5 that would love to get his hands on some.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Styxx

[OddballEasyEight]

The base game is not F2P and never was - not in the sense that it is 100% free. It offers ONLY restricted access for free - nowhere it is said that Free is the new model. No game in the world is completely free and this game is no exception.

 

Be happy - you or anyone that plays or wants to play without spending money - that you can play as it is. Lacking any proof they spent ANY money, or money up to at least 15 bucks per month, freeloaders will never be more than "beggars can`t be choosers".

 

Compared to any other F2P game it certainly is as free as they are.

 

Let's see what cannot be removed with unlocks (that can be bought in-game for in-game credits, not a single dime of real money needs to be spent).

 

Less xp earned.

Less credits earned.

Not all the mission rewards available.

 

That's about it.

 

Compare that to other F2P games with Premium Account options.

 

No premium account:

Less xp earned.

Less credits earned.

Usually other restrictions that vary depending on the game.

 

Sounds pretty similar to me. So are you telling me those other games are not "truly" F2P as well?

 

Oh and I've been here since the start and have paid for every month played (even though I had to stop subscribing for a few months when I was unemployed).

So you can take your attitude and space it.

 

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you since you have an incredibly rude and obnoxious attitude.

 

Good day sir.

[DarthTHC]

Compared to any other F2P game it certainly is as free as they are.

 

Let's see what cannot be removed with unlocks (that can be bought in-game for in-game credits, not a single dime of real money needs to be spent).

 

Less xp earned.

Less credits earned.

Not all the mission rewards available.

 

That's about it.

 

Compare that to other F2P games with Premium Account options.

 

No premium account:

Less xp earned.

Less credits earned.

Usually other restrictions that vary depending on the game.

 

Sounds pretty similar to me. So are you telling me those other games are not "truly" F2P as well?

 

Oh and I've been here since the start and have paid for every month played (even though I had to stop subscribing for a few months when I was unemployed).

So you can take your attitude and space it.

 

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you since you have an incredibly rude and obnoxious attitude.

 

Good day sir.

 

Aren't there things you can buy from CM (and GTN) that give 1 or 3 hour experience and credit boosts (though not at the same time)? I'm certain of the former, but not the latter. In that regard, SWTOR has those other "free" games beat, right?

[Khevar]

The word you're looking for is integrity.

Sooth.

 

Of course, when I look back on the history of video games, there are plenty of blatant no-integrity cash grabs. The cycle seems to go:

 

1. A bright team of developers made some good games.

2. People play them and they are successful.

3. Corporate-suit-types want to cash in on this success.

4. Quality declines until,

5. Another bright team of developers makes some more good games.

6. Rinse and repeat.

 

The one unfortunate side effect of the power of the modern computer's ability to make fancy graphics is that most people expect a good game to have awesome visuals, requiring more people, artists, etc, requiring more money, requiring publishers that prefer a sure thing to something innovative (e.g. "why don't you make a game like Crossfire, it made a billion last year?")

[yeldarbnotned]

I don't think its too prohibitive. I think there is some silly stuff against free to play such as no cargo hold, no unify colors, no hide head slots, no medical probes (deaths) after a certain level, etc.

 

Basically as a preferred, one can enjoy the game almost at the same level as a subscriber if he/she prepares ahead of time by acquiring the unlocks.

 

However, the two greatest things that annoy me while playing as preferred is the experience penalty and crafting. After hitting like level 20, "free to play/preferred" suffer a 25% experience penalty coupled with losing all "rested experience." This really makes leveling alts a chore. And, its the only reason I subscribe from time to time, so I can lessen the grind.

 

The other annoyance is crafting. Even after unlocking the third crew skill, a preferred player can only assign three crafting jobs (example: making hilts) at one time instead of twenty-five! This is a huge setback to those who like to craft and sell on GTN.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

Let them trade items.

They should be able to give and receive. When I get stuck with an undergeared group I often try to improve their gear with some leftovers and them not being able to trade affects the whole group in such case. But also the other way around, if they won the roll on an item that someone else wants or needs more, they should be able to trade it. F2P are often also new players who are not yet familiar with the gear/stats for their class/role and the timer on the roll does not always give the time to explain or discuss before they roll.

 

Yeah, can't say how many times I've tried to open trade with someone who accidentally ninjaed an item and had it tell me "You can't trade with f2p players" or whatever it says. I'm a subscriber (since launch, sans one week total) yet this is a restriction than harms ME much more than them.

[DarthTHC]

I don't think its too prohibitive. I think there is some silly stuff against free to play such as no cargo hold, no unify colors, no hide head slots, no medical probes (deaths) after a certain level, etc.

 

Basically as a preferred, one can enjoy the game almost at the same level as a subscriber if he/she prepares ahead of time by acquiring the unlocks.

 

Almost at the same level as a subscriber, you say? You're getting almost as much value from the game for the $5 plus some credits you spent as someone who pays $15 per month, every month, you say? Sounds like a very generous system!

 

However, the two greatest things that annoy me while playing as preferred is the experience penalty and crafting. After hitting like level 20, "free to play/preferred" suffer a 25% experience penalty coupled with losing all "rested experience." This really makes leveling alts a chore. And, its the only reason I subscribe from time to time, so I can lessen the grind.

 

The other annoyance is crafting. Even after unlocking the third crew skill, a preferred player can only assign three crafting jobs (example: making hilts) at one time instead of twenty-five! This is a huge setback to those who like to craft and sell on GTN.

 

You can get 1 and 3 hour duration 25% experience boosts from CM or GTN. Might help a bit.

[yeldarbnotned]

Almost at the same level as a subscriber, you say? You're getting almost as much value from the game for the $5 plus some credits you spent as someone who pays $15 per month, every month, you say? Sounds like a very generous system!

 

I know of no other game that offers eight unique adventures filled with cinematic dialogue, interesting companions, much character customizations, pretty fun combat, and many hours of gameplay. I have never spent so many hours in one game as this one. Although, I have spent some money on this game, some other soul can do this all for free. I concur. It is generous.

[Volthorne]

I also heard WOW and WOT are free too.

 

WoW has a (IIRC) a level cap of 20 before they force you to pay a subscription, and WoT only allows you to have 3 tanks before you need to buy more garage slots (only having 3 tanks is really, really ******, let me tell you. Once you enter a battle with a tank you can't use it in another until the first one is over, which means in some circumstances you could potentially be locked out of all 3 for up to 10 minutes).

 

Almost at the same level as a subscriber, you say? You're getting almost as much value from the game for the $5 plus some credits you spent as someone who pays $15 per month, every month, you say? Sounds like a very generous system!

 

Not even CLOSE to the same level. Sorry, but that last guy is mistaken. Preferred still get shafted for what they can and cannot do, even if they were subs at one point. Not nearly as bad as Freeps but still really badly. You can't even unlock ~90% of the account-wide Legacy stuff unless you buy CC because it's so damn expensive.

[LordArtemis]

I pointed 2 games for a reason - one is THE MMO, which has a free variant too, I`m told, while the other is the number 4 best making money game.

 

As for one of the games on that list, Crossfire, that is a straight PAY TO WIN game: http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/20/crossfire-tencents-top-earning-free-to-play-game-youve-never-heard-of/ - and it is only the number one money making game.

 

Fair enough.

[LordArtemis]

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you since you have an incredibly rude and obnoxious attitude.

 

Good day sir.

 

That's a bit harsh, dont you think?

 

I'm pretty sure we can make our points without insulting each other.

[LordArtemis]

Remember folks, the question is.....

 

Is the F2P/Preffered system too prohibitive, and if so, what should change?

 

I am of the opinion it is, only in the ways I indicated. But my view is not even close to the last word on the matter, nor is it meant to be presented as a fact...only an opinion.

 

The title sets the tone...there are those that feel it is fine, others feel it needs more restrictions, others less, all valid opinions IMO....that is what the thread is for.

 

I for one appreciate the dialog.

[Styxx]

WoW has a (IIRC) a level cap of 20 before they force you to pay a subscription, and WoT only allows you to have 3 tanks before you need to buy more garage slots (only having 3 tanks is really, really ******, let me tell you. Once you enter a battle with a tank you can't use it in another until the first one is over, which means in some circumstances you could potentially be locked out of all 3 for up to 10 minutes).

 

Add WOT offering a flat HALF xp and money for freeloaders. And that game is ALL ABOUT xp and money, nothing else.

 

If I am to believe the first spots in that graph, this game should sell power, PLUS free ONLY UP TO lvl 14 (20 out of 80 is roughly 14 out of 55) AND give ONLY half xp and cash to freeloaders.

 

Let`s make it happen, shall we? Since we like to quote other games, let`s quote games on both sides of the fence too.

 

So, you qualify, as a free player, for free play up to lvl 14, with half xp and cash AND can end up ROFLSTOMPED in PvP by a wallet warrior with 2 +200 crystals at 55. A perfect world, I tell you.

 

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you since you have an incredibly rude and obnoxious attitude.

Oh, the one where I keep insisting that we only get what we pay for? That discussion might be? Because that is the main underline - we only get what we pay for and, if we don`t pay nothing, why should we have ANYTHING? And some folks seem to be too vocal about the quality of FREE things, instead of, you know, be grateful.

 

Free is the norm, right? And bandwidth and dev wages are paid with FREEDOM coins, right?

Edited May 22, 2014 by Styxx

[DarthTHC]

Not even CLOSE to the same level. Sorry, but that last guy is mistaken. Preferred still get shafted for what they can and cannot do, even if they were subs at one point. Not nearly as bad as Freeps but still really badly. You can't even unlock ~90% of the account-wide Legacy stuff unless you buy CC because it's so damn expensive.

 

Really? Putting $5 into a game once and getting some serious restrictions lifted forever is shafted? I'd sure as heck hate to have General Motors force me to drive a Corvette with a manual transmission for free, or even a one-time payment of $100. I'm sure my... backside... would never recover from that shafting!

 

Come on man. It's still just about free. And people still know exactly what they're buying when they pay their $0 or $5 to play the game. So it's all perfectly well and good. In fact, I personally would like every F2P account permanently squelched except guild and party chat, since BioWare isn't willing to do anything else about the credit spam.

Edited May 22, 2014 by DarthTHC

[LordArtemis]

Here is where I think a third free tier is needed....like "veteran" for instance.

 

Someone that has subscribed to the game at least 6 months or has paid out at least 200.00 in CM purchases should have a tier or access that is a bit more lenient than the current Preferred tier, though still not completely open like it is for subs.

 

I would suggest almost all restrictions are lifted except chat, costs, XP and limitations on end game play.

[BrintoSFJ]

Here is where I think a third free tier is needed....like "veteran" for instance.

 

Someone that has subscribed to the game at least 6 months or has paid out at least 200.00 in CM purchases should have a tier or access that is a bit more lenient than the current Preferred tier, though still not completely open like it is for subs.

 

I would suggest almost all restrictions are lifted except chat, costs, XP and limitations on end game play.

 

People who preordered the game or bought the game after launch and played at least for 3-6 month before f2p conversion should have had their own tier. it is quite unfortunate how they are treated the same way as someone who only spend 4.99$ to buy CC.

[OddballEasyEight]

 

Oh, the one where I keep insisting that we only get what we pay for? That discussion might be? Because that is the main underline - we only get what we pay for and, if we don`t pay nothing, why should we have ANYTHING? And some folks seem to be too vocal about the quality of FREE things, instead of, you know, be grateful.

 

Free is the norm, right? And bandwidth and dev wages are paid with FREEDOM coins, right?

 

Ummm no?

We were discussing changing the term Subscriber to Premium Account or something else to stop people from focusing on the number of subscribers the game have to instead focusing on if the game is making a profit or not.

 

But I'm not surprised you lost track of what we were talking about in your fanatical fervor to prove a point about how NOTHING is free and this game ISN'T of the free-to-play model.

 

I personally couldn't give a rats *** about what F2P do or do not get.

I'm just saying that people are too focused on the number of subscribers and not the actual profit the game is making and that would change quickly if they just renamed the term subscriber.

And it probably wouldn't hurt the game if they switched from "you are not a subscriber so you get this and that restriction" rhetoric to "this is the base game, if you become a VIP player, you get these bonuses" which is how other F2P games "disguise" their free-player limitations.

Edited May 24, 2014 by OddballEasyEight