Turn the Capital Ship Turrets Back on in Deathmatch

[MisterBlackJack]

One good gunship, one good bomber, camping one spawn point, u really think you can get out that ok? Moment u appear u got face of mines, a drone shooting you, and an ace gunship just zapped u and ya team mates with ion railgun, if you think you can get out that ok then u only met crap gunships. Coz that combo waiting for you and ya 1-2 mates will not survive, before u say boost away, remember you just took a full charged ion hit so ya engine pool, shield pool, weapon pool none existent.

 

I have seen this and it does happen from time to time, extremely common in TDM one sided match it ends up in a blood bath camping on spawn areas.

 

The changes in 2.8 helps slightly for those that don’t know about how to change spawn areas but it don’t solve the issue – spawn camping is happening and is the single biggest reason newbies get sick of any form of pvp.

 

You completely missing the point that we are saying. Which is you can simply switch spawn points. problem is people needed to be hand held through everything.

[mattycutts]

You completely missing the point that we are saying. Which is you can simply switch spawn points. problem is people needed to be hand held through everything.

 

No im not missing the point, you have missed my point, if you have that combo on one spawn point, what u think the other 6 are doing, I have seen a game where for parts actually had all 3 spawn points locked down, I was on the winning side, I quit coz I was disgusted.

 

but yes i do agree some really need hand helding and hopefully 2.8 fixes that bit slightly, but issue still exhists for all 3 points to be camped for even parts of a match and is no good for any of us if people stop gsf over it or worse just keep quitting every TDM if it pops. has to be a more middle ground that suits the majority and prevents spawn camping of any sort.

[SammyGStatus]

No im not missing the point, you have missed my point, if you have that combo on one spawn point, what u think the other 6 are doing, I have seen a game where for parts actually had all 3 spawn points locked down, I was on the winning side, I quit coz I was disgusted.

 

but yes i do agree some really need hand helding and hopefully 2.8 fixes that bit slightly, but issue still exhists for all 3 points to be camped for even parts of a match and is no good for any of us if people stop gsf over it or worse just keep quitting every TDM if it pops. has to be a more middle ground that suits the majority and prevents spawn camping of any sort.

 

This will not happen - it was in game, and it was taken out. There is no reason why your entire team should spawn at different locations and not be able to reclaim ONE of the three sats. This is a player fault, not the game fault, and I don't mean the attacking players. You should be able to push them them back / coordinate a group spawn at the same location. If you can't, turns out your team had bad chemistry. I don't ask for FPs to be altered to make up for that healing op with light armor in defensive gear ruining the FP run. Tak your lumps and understand that this isn't entirely your fault, but putting these back is a big negative.

[General_Brass]

This will not happen - it was in game, and it was taken out. There is no reason why your entire team should spawn at different locations and not be able to reclaim ONE of the three sats. This is a player fault, not the game fault, and I don't mean the attacking players. You should be able to push them them back / coordinate a group spawn at the same location. If you can't, turns out your team had bad chemistry. I don't ask for FPs to be altered to make up for that healing op with light armor in defensive gear ruining the FP run. Tak your lumps and understand that this isn't entirely your fault, but putting these back is a big negative.

 

Trying to coordinate a team re-spawn and a break out through the ingame chat system is a ridiculous effort, ironically having boice com is usually what makes it easy to spawncamp.

[SammyGStatus]

Trying to coordinate a team re-spawn and a break out through the ingame chat system is a ridiculous effort, ironically having boice com is usually what makes it easy to spawncamp.

 

When we voice comm, we actually have one of our guildies who specifically notes that we never call targets, or are even talking about the game besides "How the hell did they get A" or something. The VoIP isn't the big advantage - playing with your friends (who are either already good or will get better by playing with / against you)just allows you to be in the same match which still has a reasonable statistical probability of occuring regardless of whether or not you group queue (this varies depending on the amount of games active at one time)

[havokhead]

Uuummmm, wouldn't this situation be the purpose of bombers in TDM?? Isn't it common practice now to have defensive bomber "nests" where there's 1 or 2 repair drones, a hyperspace beacon, 1 or 2 rail gun or missile turrets all enveloped in a floating mine-field? Doesn't that sound like a nice place to retreat to? You get healed, you buy a little time to get your bearings and some fellow pilots to back you up. You don't even need to stop and sit in it, just fly through it!! Chances are the interdiction mines have slowed your pursuer, if, he hasn't been outright blown to smithereens by mines & drones.

 

The beauty of this is that players get just enough time to recoup without camping under some guns, this bomber nest is also mobile AAANNNDDD it gives your team points if someone is dumb enough to pursue you through it and gives your squadron mates some req. Isn't this the purpose of bombers in TDM?? Create a defensive cloud of doom to help protect & support team-mates and hinder/kill the enemy?! It sounds like the solution is already in-game no??

 

A scout with tensor field can put a bomber anywhere on the map quickly, use the right tools for the right job. Get that hyperspace beacon to the other side of map!! GSF has checks & balances for every situation, it's up to players to find and use them. Tired of being spawn camped? Then YOU be the person to grab a spearpoint or blood mark with tensor field and say "Not today spawn campers!!" There are already solutions to many of the games "problems" out there that bioware put in place but no one is using. How many pikes/quells have maxxed EMP missiles? How many GS target mines or drones instead of players? How many novadives/black bolts have maxxed out EMP fields? Hardly any because everyone is too busy wanting to be the killer that's why...

[Fractalsponge]

Any tactic can be countered in the game. Part of the problem though is that the toolset to do so often comes after a long series of upgrades. If you didn't pick HLC and didn't go all the way to T4 armor pierce on your strike, good luck clearing a node. If you went with rapids, good luck in general, lol.

 

I don't think upgrades should be given away, but I do think all components (and even all ship types), should be available at start, and the key effects core to the component. That way a newbie starting GSF isn't tricked into taking the wrong component or not getting an effective ship type. Really, bombers with a heal should be a starting ship. Most pilots are much more useful just taking one of those, and contributing by healing or node guarding, at least until they skill up a bit.

[Icebergy]

I fly with and against you all the time. I have never seen two spawns locked down by a single pilot.

 

That comment is no reflection on your skill/ability...I don't doubt that you can lock down one spawn in a good ship, I can do that too. But two? Not saying it's impossible or that it's never happened, but it absolutely does not happen with any regularity, or I would have witnessed it at some point.

 

On my mastered Nova and/or FlashFire I can easily nuke down a team of newbies spawning at one spawn point, then burst over to the other spawn point and take down everything spawning from the second spawn point as they are still trying to figure out which way to fly.

 

As I said, I try to avoid flying my mastered ships, and I try to take it easy on new pilots as much as I can. But I can do it, and I don't think its fair. Adding the turrets back would prevent that. Or add a barrier or something that the other team can't pass.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Icebergy

[MisterBlackJack]

That works for me.

 

Then the team with the higher score will just sit on them. Remember you don't need to get to 50 to win you just need to have more kills overall before the match ends. I agree with majority of people that Captial Ship turrents need to stay off.

 

There are other spawn points people can move to. Use common sense

[Verain]

There could actually be a few other spawn points that are available if your team is behind by eight or whatever.

[Icebergy]

Then the team with the higher score will just sit on them. Remember you don't need to get to 50 to win you just need to have more kills overall before the match ends. I agree with majority of people that Captial Ship turrents need to stay off.

 

There are other spawn points people can move to. Use common sense

 

Did not read the thread.

[RatPoison]

I'd sanction turning them on under this suggestion:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7514417&postcount=12

 

Might be more useful to discuss solutions than to complain about the knowns. Despite never having a match where the winning team hid at their cap ships... I presume somebody had that experience; albeit a rare one. So... hence the suggestion given above.

 

Read, discuss, drink alcohol, etc...

[Icebergy]

I also have never once seen a match where the winning team hid from the other team.

[MaximilianPower]

I also have never once seen a match where the winning team hid from the other team.

 

While I agree this is incredibly rare (so this is admittedly OT) - funny you should say this, because I was just in one of these the other day. It was bizarre. My team got ahead 15 - 5 or so, and then more or less hid the rest of the match. Final score was something like 20 - 16 when time expired, probably the lowest overall score I've ever seen. No discussion in chat, other than when I asked "where is everyone?" (no answer to that).

 

I was on a new shiny alt with zero upgrades, which is why I was personally playing it safe (and not particularly effective), and there were a lot of 2/3-shippers on both sides...but it was really inexplicable. Should have gotten a screenshot, but I think I was too perplexed to function logically.

[RatPoison]

Other low scoring matches tend to be the bomber, gunship love fests where people sit on other sides of the map shooting across no-mans land. But admittedly, those matches, while they usually end by timer, have a higher score.

 

On a side note, while it was a low scoring match, the other team's tactic seemed to be at least partially effective as the gap between the two scores certainly constricted.

Edited July 11, 2014 by RatPoison

[Sinapus]

I'd like to make a suggestion I made when I made a similar topic:

 

To keep one team from turtling when they have the lead, have the cap ship turrets start targetting them.

 

Not sure how that could be justified for the Republic, but I'm sure the Empire would see it as a way to encourage more valor in the Emperor's pilots.

 

[Verain]

That idea is of course awful.

 

 

So, there's two arguments against cap ship turrents in TDM.

 

1)- I chaseded this gunshipe and he runneded and didn't died!

2)- Enemy team is 8 gunships on their cap spawn with a score of 7-5.

 

 

The first isn't a concern. The second is.

 

 

While it was VERY rare to see a team group up and exploit this, it was not that uncommon to see a hybrid scenario where a few gunships and girl bombers would stack up and the foodships would all fly right at the cap ship turret edge getting eaten. This could turn what should have been a loss into a win for the few players doing it, and that was a lot more common than the full exploit thing.

 

 

Currently we have three spawn points. I would be totally fine with:

 

 

1)- A redesign that has cap ship turrets but also some objective in the middle that is trivial to neutral. This would prevent a team from sitting on their cap ships in any reasonable numbers without losing, AND speed up unbalanced games, AND remove spawn camping.

 

2)- What we have now. It's mostly ok.

 

3)- Open up three "ceiling spawns" and three "floor spawns" near the middle and north/south parts of the map, only available if a team is behind by 10 or more. This would spread out the ships and prevent a spawn camp, but it could have other downsides (you might see a ball of farming-team in the middle, taking out lone ships at edges).

 

 

What is never discussed is that a team spawning in a wave of 3-4 ships on one node actually CAN push back a spawn camp in many situations, or get a few hits in. It isn't discussed because it doesn't sound fair, having four foods spawn in and start pewpewing at a couple good players, slowly attritioning them down to some degree- sounds fun for no one. But it's a reasonable interpretation of a TDM concept, and it's what we have now.

 

 

 

Plenty of options also available with invincible (not easier to kill) turrets that stack a debuff, or are not instantly fatal, to guard the area without making it crazy, but all of these are both not intuitive and very gameable.

 

 

I think the situation we have here is at least explainable to everyone, and the results follow logically- if your team is awful, you get pushed back to spawn, which is still your strongest area to be in, but if you are pushed back to spawn winning wasn't on your plate anyway.

[RatPoison]

Complicated ideas/solutions are rarely ever implemented.

[Icebergy]

Perhaps they could code in a solution where the Capital Ships engage for a losing team if they team is down by say 10 or more points. That would prevent spawn camping while giving no assistance to a team that wants to turtle (I still have a hard time believing this actually happens ever).

[Kissakias]

There are 2 other spawn points you can take...

 

And NO to putting back capital ship turrets back on in TDM. Just NO.

 

And that is the correct answer, i was ready to type it myself when my see it.

And scouts arent overpower man, not even close.

 

but we cant avoid the cheaters, are 2-3 cheats in the game so far, Ea dosnt give a **** for them so far, even if 3-4 people report them.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Kissakias

[Hanak]

 

 

 

 

 

 

3)- Open up three "ceiling spawns" and three "floor spawns" near the middle and north/south parts of the map, only available if a team is behind by 10 or more. This would spread out the ships and prevent a spawn camp, but it could have other downsides (you might see a ball of farming-team in the middle, taking out lone ships at edges).

 

 

 

This is a great suggestion - I have seen this in tons of other games (thinking a behind enemy lines deployment in FPS games). To make it fit, have another ship hyperspace in, for example, to the bottom right for the Republic and the top left for the Imperials when a team gets 15 behind (10 is too few to offer up a larger advantage like this). If they wanted, they could get fancy and have this alternate. Anything to open up the spawn arc available from the current 90 degrees to something closer to 120 degrees. This pushes the optimal camping spot closer toward the middle of the map.

 

Have a vocal message "Enemy reinforcements have arrived" so you know you have to watch your back.

 

Problems are that the current maps are not designed with these spawn points in mind so the design team would have to carefully consider the placement and of course actually getting the change made.

[Icebergy]

And that is the correct answer, i was ready to type it myself when my see it.

And scouts arent overpower man, not even close.

 

but we cant avoid the cheaters, are 2-3 cheats in the game so far, Ea dosnt give a **** for them so far, even if 3-4 people report them.

 

Did not read the thread.