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Vanguard Assault Specialist Guide

TACeMossie

By TACeMossie
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drummerinthesun

drummerinthesun

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The next 2 cooldowns are reserved for cases where High Impact Bolt didn't proc, which means it procced in cooldown #4. In additon, GCD 6 is ammo reliant, and if you are above 90 ammo dont bother with it as it will cause wasted ammo.

 

[GCD 5] - High Impact Bolt

[GCD 6] - Hammer Shots (<90 ammo)

 

These 2 cooldowns are non-negotiable due to the absolute requirement of staying in the high ammo regen zone, and ignoring them results in a downward spiral of low regen zones. Delaying IR or AP by 1-2 cooldowns is no where near as bad for DPS as being forced to HS -> HS -> HS -> SS -> IP -> HiB 5 times in a row to recover your resources.

 

This section is a little confusing to me. Are you saying that you must use GCD 5 and 6 every single time? I wouldn't think so since the 100% on the 6 sec IA proc requires a 4 GCD rotation (or 8 GCD rotation if you wanted to extrapolate it more). Or do you mean that IF you get the situation where IA doesn't proc on GCD 3, you MUST use GCD 5 and 6 and then flow back into the 4 GCD rotation?

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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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This section is a little confusing to me. Are you saying that you must use GCD 5 and 6 every single time? I wouldn't think so since the 100% on the 6 sec IA proc requires a 4 GCD rotation (or 8 GCD rotation if you wanted to extrapolate it more). Or do you mean that IF you get the situation where IA doesn't proc on GCD 3, you MUST use GCD 5 and 6 and then flow back into the 4 GCD rotation?

 

Its the second case - when IA doesnt proc in GCD3

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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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I couldn't hit 3500 :(. I was consistently in the high 3300s and mid to low 3400s. Just couldn't get above 32% crit on RS which killed me.

 

Damn. Well on the bright side, tomorrow you're gonna be hitting 3.8k consistantly :D

 

If you can link the parse and the updated AMR I can look at it again for you (I finally got full dread forged... well minus the earpiece/implants, those are still comm stuff, and im between 3.55 and 3.6k average, so its not a gear thing anymore... unless you're still lacking datacrons/companion bonus)

 

And if you want to link a video showing you killing the dummy, that would be even better (its much easier to analyse a parse when theres a visual representation of it)

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NateSoGross

NateSoGross

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I don't play enough to go get all the datacrons, nor do I really feel like raging when I miss a jump or something, but I have all the gear except my chest and enhancement in gloves, and got my crit companion up. I have only done 7 or so parses but I'm averaging 3700 range. I can't seem to hit 3800, it probably takes more tries but my best was this:

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/694901/time/1402371213/1402371478/0/Overview

I know I can do better, but I might be doing something wrong. I would be trying a lot more but I have a bday party to go to. This is a little upsetting since some people who are just trying it out are hitting better numbers than me, and I've been playing since the start of TOR.

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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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I don't play enough to go get all the datacrons, nor do I really feel like raging when I miss a jump or something, but I have all the gear except my chest and enhancement in gloves, and got my crit companion up. I have only done 7 or so parses but I'm averaging 3700 range. I can't seem to hit 3800, it probably takes more tries but my best was this:

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/694901/time/1402371213/1402371478/0/Overview

I know I can do better, but I might be doing something wrong. I would be trying a lot more but I have a bday party to go to. This is a little upsetting since some people who are just trying it out are hitting better numbers than me, and I've been playing since the start of TOR.

 

Id be willing to say its probably the lack of datacrons - in 2.8 they add about 80 dps to you. Ill check over the posted parse and update this post in a minute.

 

EDIT - there were a couple of times where you missed a cooldown by a full 1.5 seconds, which resulted in a DPS loss. killing the dummy as little as 1 cooldown earlier would have been a DPS increase of 21.4, and 2 cooldowns earlier would have been 43.1 dps more - getting you over 3.8k dps.

 

And by the 60 second mark I've found 5 cooldowns where you did nothing.

 

Make sure you're using the ability queue as to avoid these situations, as if you got all those cooldowns hit I wouldn't be surprised if you get it down at 3.85+k dps

Edited by TACeMossie
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NateSoGross

NateSoGross

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You are probably sick of seeing me posting, but i keep having a problem where my RS wont proc and it causes me to over heat and i f up. kind of frustrating since i cant parse as good as everyone else who is now dominating this spec. here is a list of parses with my problem:

http://www.torparse.com/a/696593

ugh this gets upsetting, and thanks a lot, i appreciate it.

Edited by NateSoGross
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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You are probably sick of seeing me posting, but i keep having a problem where my RS wont proc and it causes me to over heat and i f up. kind of frustrating since i cant parse as good as everyone else who is now dominating this spec. here is a list of parses with my problem:

http://www.torparse.com/a/696593

ugh this gets upsetting, and thanks a lot, i appreciate it.

 

The first one I looked at was this:

http://www.torparse.com/a/696593/2/0/Log

 

There were a large number of times where you were using Thermal Detonator or Incendiary Missile in cooldown 3 - If following the priority lists in the guide, incendiary Missile will happen only in cooldown 2 (basic rotation) or cooldown 1 (advanced rotation), and Thermal Detonator should only be used in cooldowns 2 and 4. There were also cases of you delaying Rail Shot for a Flame Burst - As I have observed before, the invisible 'stacks' of PPA that cause the auto-proc dont start happening unless you already used PPA, so the flame burst was doing damage, nothing else, causing you to have to worry about RNG.

 

All the other PPA failures were just bad luck, where it was the TD -> IM -> RS -> RP -> RS or RS -> IM -> TD -> RP -> RS section (though you surprisingly got all the TD -> RP -> RS -> FB -> RS procs), which as noted in the advanced rotation is only a 60% chance of actually working thanks to the joys of RNG :(

 

I chose that one because it was the best performing one out there, but I suspect the mistakes in that parse rolled over into the other ones.

Edited by TACeMossie
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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I added a new section on Ammo Dumping to finish off targets under "The Burn". Feel free to check it out but be warned, its very, very delicate trying to pull it off, and can result in a snowball effect if you start it too early or without enough ammo.
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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So basically the "burn" is not using any hammer shots in the last 20-25% and therefore counting on just your cooldowns?

 

Yep, but start it too early and BAM - You're out of ammo and you're DPS drops like a rock

Edited by TACeMossie
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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http://www.torparse.com/a/706609/time/1403426223/1403426484/0/Damage+Dealt

I think I'm doing everything right, I believe my problem is just rng now, do you agree?

 

Well you did hit flamethrower once and your rocket punch rate is a little low, but that is typical for the less-prone-to-RNG-but-still-prone-to-RNG-rotation, so yeah, looks like you got it.

 

If you wanna go fishing for high numbers though, rocket punch needs to be used on cooldown (unless a proc fails) - might get you over 4k if you do that.

 

Hell a guy hit 4.23k DPS without dread masters gear by fishing for procs and having stockstrike/AP/IR all on cooldown the entire fight. He didn't miss a single proc and had an unnaturally high crit rate (I mean sure, 42% may be a little high but its still pretty expected. He got 46%), but still...

 

Why didn't I include flamethrower in the rotation? Because while in theory Flamethrower is better, in practice this isn't true since Flame Burst has a 60% chance to proc CGC, using Flame Burst will typically get better DPS than using flamethrower in that cooldown. And it also prevents RNG in GCD 3 when you do it.

Edited by TACeMossie
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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When you say keep ss on cd does that include when I just got a proc for RS, because I usually hit RS then a ss because it bought that was priority?

 

Yeah thats what I meant - your ave CD for RP was 10.5 secs while it should be closer to 9 secs

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-Xela-

-Xela-

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I don't understand the rotation after the ADVANCED opener, it says standard rotation after the opener is finished but I don't see where that is posted if it even has been. Please help me out because I do not know what I am doing during the 'Standard rotation' phase after the advanced opener.
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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I don't understand the rotation after the ADVANCED opener, it says standard rotation after the opener is finished but I don't see where that is posted if it even has been. Please help me out because I do not know what I am doing during the 'Standard rotation' phase after the advanced opener.

 

If I spoke to you last night, then it was explained. If not, I've been meaning to look at formatting this better, though when I updated that section I must have overlooked that. Im going back to fix it up now.

 

Put simply, either use the Beginner or the Advanced section. Beginner doesn't have to deal with RNG, but has less DPS potential.

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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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Why not the Eliminator set? (Bare with me. Really new to Vanguard and DPS in general.)

 

Well I put it in the other thread, but since this thread is probably gonna be around a lot longer and new people might see it, I'll copy my reply across here:

 

 

If its PvP, take eliminator. If its PvE, take Combat Techs.

Its highly possible the fleet guy thought you were talking about PvP, as with PvP the set bonus's are different between the DPS specs, while PvE they are the same.

 

So why is it better for PvP but not PvE?

 

The PvP bonus is:

 

COMBAT TECHS

2-piece gets reduced cooldown on CC breaker as well as longer neural surge

4-piece gets +15% crit rate to stockstrike

 

ELIMINATORS

2-piece gets reduced cooldown on a random mando skill

4-piece gets +15% crit rate to High Impact Bolt.

 

Since High Impact Bolt is used every 6 seconds, while stockstrike can't even be used every 9 seconds unless its optimal conditions, the 4-piece for eliminators in PvP will always be better.

 

But what about PvE?

 

COMBAT TECHS

2-piece reduces cooldown on battle focus

4-piece increases High Impact Bolt damage

 

ELIMINATORS

2-piece increases crit rate of mando skills by 15%

4-piece increases High Impact Bolt damage by the same as the combat techs

 

This means a 4-piece Combat Techs in PvE will have the same benefits to High Impact Bolt, but instead of buffing a mando-only skill it buffs a vanguard-only skill, so its superior there.

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undiess

undiess

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Hey Kwerty,

 

So far I've gotten solid experience in Sentinel and Shadow, breaking over 3.8k dps in both. It's my happy spot, around 4m20sec. I'm now working on Vanguard.

 

This guide is great, but one suggestion that you dont have to take at all, but is to drop the low threat opener and instead have everyone focus on the high threat opener and when to use their aggro drop. If they can throw out a ridiculous amount of damage at first and pull aggro, with the tank(s) waiting for it to happen, it will greatly benefit the tank(s). Additionally if the tanks are double taunting then they can tell the dps when to drop aggro (just before the second taunt). This will of course catapult the tanks threat and sink the dps's threat.

 

This is of course covered already very well in Dulfy's guide, but it always has saved me in pug runs where I know that I can pull off a tank no matter what. I just make sure to rip aggro right off and then drop right as I see the boss switch back to the tank. I never have problems the rest of the fight.

 

I know there are some fights where pulling the aggro in the beginning can be dangerous, but if it's timed or made aware in the beginning, then the ridiculously high burst opener will work out for the tank much better.

 

Maybe it would serve better in the Tips section I guess as a reminder on how to optimize threat drops.

 

Either way, thanks for the guide, I have to study it more because I have energy management problems at the moment. Too many hammer shots having to be used.

Edited by undiess
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TACeMossie

TACeMossie

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Hey Kwerty, could you take a look at my parse? I was able to pull 3833 I think, but I only have like 99.28 acc and atm I dont have the four piece set bonus and for this parse I was only able to get 20%ish crit for my railshot. :( I feel like I am overheating too much. http://www.torparse.com/a/723247/42/0/Damage+Dealt

 

That was a pretty good parse - not having the 4-piece lost you 50 dps.

However, what killed you a lot was the opener:

I wrote down the first bit, and had everything done wrong written down (as in, it caused more issues than you thought it did)

 

TD

IM

RS

RP

RS

FB

FB - WRONG - This flame burst should have been a rapid shots, especially since you still used rapid shots under explosive only 3 cooldowns later. It lets you use... (continued in next cooldown with problems)

FB

RS

RapidS - WRONG - Rocket Punch!, as having Rocket Punch on cooldown improves damage output

TD

RP - WRONG - Well, this should be a flame burst. I guess you could say it's correct given that it was available here, but it really should have been a flame burst because rocket punch should have been on cooldown

RS

IM

RapidS

FB

FB

RS

RP

RapidS

TD - WRONG - This was an Ionic Accelerator proc cooldown - You should have used either Flame Burst or Rocket Punch here.

FB

RS

IM - WRONG - It still had 3 seconds left before it would have fallen off

RP - WRONG - using rocket punch here means that it will conflict itwill have conflicting cooldowns with rail shot 9 seconds later.

FB

RS

 

After that I stopped looking at it really - but its showing that a simple mistake in the opening can have a landslide effect that screws up the 'smooth' rotation and energy management of assault/pyro spec, so getting it right is almost necessary.

 

Fix up those few problems, and you should have it down.

Edited by TACeMossie
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