So.... when will bombers be balanced, exactly?

[Korithras]

They're broken as hell when it comes to domination matches. Essentially whichever side brings the most bombers and parks them on the sats will win. Scouts and strikes can't do anything about it without becoming fodder for turrets, drones and mines. And this is the way it's been since bombers were introduced to the game. It's a well-known problem, and there's no official word on when we can expect them to be balanced so that they're fair for domination matches.

 

So I ask you Bioware, when will you balance them so that they don't break domination?

[WillCaedes]

They're broken as hell when it comes to domination matches. Essentially whichever side brings the most bombers and parks them on the sats will win. Scouts and strikes can't do anything about it without becoming fodder for turrets, drones and mines. And this is the way it's been since bombers were introduced to the game. It's a well-known problem, and there's no official word on when we can expect them to be balanced so that they're fair for domination matches.

 

So I ask you Bioware, when will you balance them so that they don't break domination?

 

Not anytime soon unfortunately, after all Bioware themselves consider GSF to be in a "healthy state". Read into that what you may.

 

I sure loved having my Sting (at least until I stopped Kamikaze'ing Sats) turned into cannon fodder for 3 Defense Turrets, 3+ Mines depending on set up, at least 1 Drone, not to mention the bombers own laser armaments. Over kill much?

 

Now days I skim the edge of range on Sats and burst down what I can, and catch the stragglers. I've had to change my playstyle to fit this atrocious ship class and it sucks.

[Verain]

I'm very glad that a battle scout can't take a node from a bomber.

 

As to when bombers will be toned down a bit, it doesn't seem like they are really into the kind of tweak that this would take. I think we all would like them to be a little more mortal, and the EMP pulse buff planned will help (the EMP is going from an unuseful 3000 to a very good 4500- this is huge in terms of mine detonations). But I think the flipside of that would be giving them some role besides circling sats. The dronecarrier isn't nearly so frustrating here, as she can fly out and shoot missiles, but she's pretty darned vulnerable to a scout unless she has seeker mines instead and is orbiting sometihng- at which point she's worse than the minelayer at it.

 

I'd rather bombers be too strong than too weak at their role of area denial, because if you take that away, they have nothing.

[Scrabs]

I'd rather bombers be too strong than too weak at their role of area denial, because if you take that away, they have nothing.

 

I agree with this despite having lost 4 games in a row to 3-5 bombers in domination on The Bastion last night which was very hard to counter even with geared players.

 

With that being said though, I feel there are very viable builds that can take out bombers rather efficiently, I just wish more players would tune their "older" builds to deal with the new threat. If 1 or 2 more scouts used my build, or a variety of it, then those matches could've looked different.

 

Rocket pods people... Rocket pods.

[SammyGStatus]

I agree with this despite having lost 4 games in a row to 3-5 bombers in domination on The Bastion last night which was very hard to counter even with geared players.

 

With that being said though, I feel there are very viable builds that can take out bombers rather efficiently, I just wish more players would tune their "older" builds to deal with the new threat. If 1 or 2 more scouts used my build, or a variety of it, then those matches could've looked different.

 

Rocket pods people... Rocket pods.

 

So no more "buff bombers" then? haha

[Scrabs]

So no more "buff bombers" then? haha

 

LOL. In most cases this is still true, don't worry :>

 

Unfortunately almost everyone are in the defeatist mindset as soon as they see a bomber on a node, they cower in fear and fly away. People have to man up a little bit!

[Cekis]

LOL. In most cases this is still true, don't worry :>

 

Unfortunately almost everyone are in the defeatist mindset as soon as they see a bomber on a node, they cower in fear and fly away. People have to man up a little bit!

 

Heh... EXACTLY... there are plenty of domination matches where I'll go a negative K-D ratio, but... I... will... get... that... sat...

Edited May 2, 2014 by Cekis

[Ramalina]

One thing I recently noticed, is that despite EMP missile being the obvious anti-bomber weapon, Thermites are sort of the hidden gem of anti-bomber.

 

Mines are still a great hazard, but if you can clear 'em out a bit the debuff from a Thermite makes melting a bomber much more practical with pretty much any blaster choice.

 

Scout builds with EMP and Thermite will have some interesting anti-bomber potential after the patch.

[Sindariel]

I'm very glad that a battle scout can't take a node from a bomber...

 

A single battle scout can't take a node from a single bomber, but a single bomber can take a node from 6 battle scouts. Yeah, great balance...

[tunewalker]

A single battle scout can't take a node from a single bomber, but a single bomber can take a node from 6 battle scouts. Yeah, great balance...

 

wait... how did a single bomber get to a node and not get raped by Rocket pods and Burst lasers. 6 well played battle scouts should tear the stuffing out of a lone bomber.

[Scrabs]

A single battle scout can't take a node from a single bomber, but a single bomber can take a node from 6 battle scouts. Yeah, great balance...

 

LOL okay this troll post was actually hilarious. Gj.

[Drakkolich]

A single battle scout can't take a node from a single bomber, but a single bomber can take a node from 6 battle scouts. Yeah, great balance...

 

Well I think what Verain meant is that the battle scout can do everything but kill the bomber on the node. It's just the idea that one class of ship can do 1 thing really really well that seems to be pissing everyone off, when you guys want each ship to be able to do everything. These arn't classes, you can fly more then one ship in one game. I really don't see why everything has to be good at everything.

[Kuciwalker]

It's just the idea that one class of ship can do 1 thing really really well that seems to be pissing everyone off,

 

In Domination, that "1 thing" they can do really well is "win the game".

[Scrabs]

Well it's not like it's impossible to kill a bomber 1v1 in a scout, I do it all the time. Maybe a typical "battle scout" has a hard time, I don't play burst lasers so I wouldn't know.

 

It becomes a problem when they have a lot of backup or if there's multiple bombers on a node at once.

[TrinityLyre]

A single battle scout can't take a node from a single bomber, but a single bomber can take a node from 6 battle scouts. Yeah, great balance...

This isn't even worth devoting a real reply to, so have this instead.

Edited May 2, 2014 by TrinityLyre

[Altheran]

It becomes a problem when they have a lot of backup or if there's multiple bombers on a node at once.

 

Well, when one class in a game does decent (note I said "decent", not "good") 1vs1 damage while actually doing (almost exclusively) AoE damage, it's bound to end in a disaster.

 

I already saw that done by Bright Wizards/Sorcerers in Warhammer Online... It wasn't pretty.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Altheran

[Nemarus]

Well it's not like it's impossible to kill a bomber 1v1 in a scout, I do it all the time. Maybe a typical "battle scout" has a hard time, I don't play burst lasers so I wouldn't know.

 

It becomes a problem when they have a lot of backup or if there's multiple bombers on a node at once.

 

And this is what almost every Domination match devolves into.

 

One team brings a Minelayer to a node. Then the other team brings one. Then the first team brings two...

 

...except most of the time one team is full of new pilots who don't have a Minelayer unlocked, and those new pilots, stuck in T1 Strikes and Scouts, are thereafter excluded from being able to approach any node to try and hold or cap.

[Kuciwalker]

And this is what almost every Domination match devolves into.

 

One team brings a Minelayer to a node. Then the other team brings one. Then the first team brings two...

 

I'm going to challenge you on this. Your team attempted to do that last night on Denon. The bombers tended to make it to the node just fine... and died anyway to my (T3) slug. Over and over. Because they had no freaking clue how to use LOS.

 

In my 50 matches on TEH I have yet to actually see this dreaded unbreakable bomber-node.

 

Also, you need to react faster to being hit by a railgun

Edited May 2, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[JeepWithGuy]

Well I think what Verain meant is that the battle scout can do everything but kill the bomber on the node. It's just the idea that one class of ship can do 1 thing really really well that seems to be pissing everyone off, when you guys want each ship to be able to do everything. These arn't classes, you can fly more then one ship in one game. I really don't see why everything has to be good at everything.

 

This is exactly right. If you'll notice, every person in this thread speaking against bombers is using the example of scout versus bomber. Strikes, gunships, and other bombers should handle enemy bombers. Scouts should avoid bombers at all costs unless properly equipped. NovaDive/Spearpoint and Blackbolt/Bloodmark scouts can be good against bombers, but you need to gear them properly. Thermite torpedoes, proton torpedoes, rocket pods, EMP, etc are weapons of choice for them.

[Kuciwalker]

In fact, the only time I've seen bombers be game-changers on TEH was actually in a TDM last night (Kuat), where we were losing badly until the L siblings (Liaxia or something and someone similar) set up a ridiculous drone fort and I parked my gunship in the middle of it.

 

They then tried the same thing in the next TDM on Shipyards, but didn't account for the fact that I was on the other team and promptly dismantled the fort.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[Rollory]

...except most of the time one team is full of new pilots who don't have a Minelayer unlocked, and those new pilots, stuck in T1 Strikes and Scouts, are thereafter excluded from being able to approach any node to try and hold or cap.

 

See the TEH space-shout-out thread. Am I a bad bomber pilot? I seriously doubt that, but if you think I make it easy for T1 strikes and scouts to kill me, I'm all ears as to what I'm doing wrong. If it wasn't for the fact that half my team was backing me up while the nodes were contested, they'd have cleared me off and kept me off. Using T1 strike and T1 scout.

 

I really think your raw numbers, while accurate, do not reflect the full complexity of what actually happens in these fights.

 

Rhodogast / Kelril, The Ebon Hawk

[Nemarus]

In my 50 matches on TEH I have yet to actually see this dreaded unbreakable bomber-node.

 

<tangent>

You haven't seen it because the Imperial GSF community on TEH was already killed by it before you arrived.

 

The Ebon Hawk is no longer a place to gather any legitimate evidence of balance, especially in any match <Damage Overcharge> is in. Competitive combat between factions on The Ebon Hawk is already dead. The combination of the Barrel Roll nerf (which I support), the proliferation of S/I Minelayers, and the arrival of <Damage Overcharge> quickly killed the interest of the few remaining Imperial pilots. I'm the only remaining native Imperial Elite who flies with any regularity.

 

Republic has always had superior numbers of skilled pilots on TEH (with several regular premade groups), but the Empire had a few Elites who could carry matches and keep our less skilled pilots queuing. But now that is no longer the case. If <Damage Overcharge> rolled Imperial instead, it would actually create a pretty good balance of numbers and skill across both factions. I talked to Aimbot about it. It's something you guys should consider if you're really interested in more consistent serious competition on TEH.

 

Otherwise you will likely just keep getting paired up with a smattering of Imperial scrubs (occasionally including me). And meanwhile your group will be put on the same team as native Republic aces such as Large, Phil, Sookat, Irialle, etc. Eventually, the trickle of Imperial lambs will stop marching to the slaughter, and the server will just be Republic wargames. Then you might get the competition you seek, but it'll take a little while yet to get to that point.

 

</tangent>

 

Getting back to the topic at hand, I had no "team" last night, just some guild newbies and PUG's who had no clue how to deal with the two SIM's fielded by your team. Near the end I got in my own SIM out of desperation/frustration, but as I approached (A) I had no support or distraction, so of course you could nail me before I got on the node.

 

But before you arrived, when only Aimbot and Swansea were here, there was a brief period on TEH when Minelayers were running 2-4 a match. And that's when I wrote my "Domination on TEH is a farce" post. And then a week later, it wasn't really an issue anymore because the Imperial side had simply given up.

[Nemarus]

See the TEH space-shout-out thread. Am I a bad bomber pilot? I seriously doubt that, but if you think I make it easy for T1 strikes and scouts to kill me, I'm all ears as to what I'm doing wrong. If it wasn't for the fact that half my team was backing me up while the nodes were contested, they'd have cleared me off and kept me off. Using T1 strike and T1 scout.

 

I really think your raw numbers, while accurate, do not reflect the full complexity of what actually happens in these fights.

 

Rhodogast / Kelril, The Ebon Hawk

 

I know from personal experience that my own SIM was rarely threatened by Strikes (even if piloted by Large) once I got to a node.

 

But judging anything on The Ebon Hawk these days is very difficult, given the weakness of the Imperial side.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Nemarus

[Armonddd]

<tangent>

All the problems for imps on TEH that were introduced by <Damage Overcharge> were initially introduced to pubs by <Eclipse Squadron>. Matches had degraded to is_present?("Eclipse Squadron") ? pub_victory() : imp_victory();

 

Matchmaking has been a major issue for a long time.

</tangent>

[Kuciwalker]

<tangent>This doesn't explain why I haven't seen the SIM swarm in pub-v-pub matches either.</tangent>