Is SWTOR still canon?

[Mozepy]

None of the other examples you mentioned had an official unified canon at some point. That's part of what made the Star Wars canon special. That's part of why losing it now sucks so much. It's got nothing to do with one or two things changing. It's everything getting thrown out the window.

 

Not true. Star Trek's canon was very specific. It Was all the TV shows (except TAS) and the Movies for a long time. Later it became All the TV Shows and the Movies. Now they say they reserve the right to change that.

 

Star Wars was never that specific. Everything was classified into various canon categories and George reserved the right to change anything on a whim.

 

What people forget is that official canons don't exist for fans anymore. They are created for licensing and merchandising purposes. There needs to be a canon so the marketing people know how to label and market things.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Mozepy

[Fantazm]

I'm still surprised how much some people care about this.

 

Whether it is or not, or whatever is or not doesn't bother me at all really.

[Mozepy]

I'm still surprised how much some people care about this.

 

Whether it is or not, or whatever is or not doesn't bother me at all really.

 

The obligatory "I don't care about this topic" post.

[Fantazm]

The obligatory "I don't care about this topic" post.

 

I'm genuinely surprised at how bent out of shape people get about it.

 

I know I probably shouldn't be.

[LordArtemis]

Well, I would guess at least for some folks having something recognized by those that control the IP as part of the official universe gives it life, makes it more real with respect to that world.

 

When the official channel rejects it as something that does not fall in line with expected and accepted storylines it becomes something that has little meaning.

 

For me, I often reject canon elements I find unacceptable to my view of the storyline, which is very personal for something I enjoy. So perhaps I might ignore certain characters, "established facts" or events if they ruin the overall story for me.

 

I was happy to accept the idea that this may very well be part of the "legends" set, because some of the established facts with respect to this storyline are difficult for me to swallow (light side sith come to mind). It makes it easier for me to accept and enjoy for what it is.

[Arkerus]

Not true. Star Trek's canon was very specific. It Was all the TV shows (except TAS) and the Movies for a long time. Later it became All the TV Shows and the Movies. Now they say they reserve the right to change that.

 

Star Wars was never that specific. Everything was classified into various canon categories and George reserved the right to change anything on a whim.

 

What people forget is that official canons don't exist for fans anymore. They are created for licensing and merchandising purposes. There needs to be a canon so the marketing people know how to label and market things.

 

We've been trying to tell him that but its not going to work. Somw people just don't like to hear the reality of the situation.

[TheBBP]

I thought it was pretty clear that Disney defined canon as the movies and Clone Wars TV show AND NOTHING ELSE. Someone else mentioned a few storylines that they accepted as canon.

 

From what I understood everything else was considered Legend.

 

It is MORE than clear and VERY easy to understand. The only people who are having a hard time with it are trying to hold onto things that they want to be canon. There is no gray area on the matter, there is nothing needed to be defined any further. If it is not one of the 6 (soon to be 9) movies or is not Rebels or TCW, it is NOT canon.

 

Publishing-wise they have also been clear. There is no gray area there either. A New Dawn is the first book released officially under the new StoryGroup. It and the novels coming later ARE canon.

 

Also, the old post-RotJ EU was NEVER canon. Ever. Uncle George was always consistent with his stance on the difference between the novels and his movies. Those books have ALWAYS been an alternate universe set apart from the movies, so their status as canon is the same now as it has always been.

 

KotOR and SWTOR are not canon. However, that is not to say that they cannot be later brought into canon (which would be awesome).

[Aries_cz]

However, that is not to say that they cannot be later brought into canon (which would be awesome).

 

That is the point I was trying to make. Given that SWTOR is still creating new stories (and probably bringing much more money than all republished books will), there is a chance that it could be brought into canon (as all new stories are supposed to be canon).

[TheBBP]

That is the point I was trying to make. Given that SWTOR is still creating new stories (and probably bringing much more money than all republished books will), there is a chance that it could be brought into canon (as all new stories are supposed to be canon).

 

They got VERY close to canonizing Revan in TCW (even as far as making digital models for him) and went with Darth Bane instead.

Edited September 27, 2014 by TheBBP

[CrutchCricket]

Not true. Star Trek's canon was very specific. It Was all the TV shows (except TAS) and the Movies for a long time. Later it became All the TV Shows and the Movies. Now they say they reserve the right to change that.

 

Star Wars was never that specific. Everything was classified into various canon categories and George reserved the right to change anything on a whim.

 

What people forget is that official canons don't exist for fans anymore. They are created for licensing and merchandising purposes. There needs to be a canon so the marketing people know how to label and market things.

If that's the case, why is Star Trek constantly cited as an example when the canon was never unified "and it doesn't matter"? It can't be both. Either there was a unified canon or there wasn't. So which is it?

 

And why do people keep bringing up that Lucas could change whatever he wanted? No one in the history of anything has ever contended that. He could change whatever he wanted at anytime. Great. Did that mean he had to **** on everything, or more importantly did he? The answer's a resounding "NO". Lucas did what he wanted, the rest of the franchise revolved around him. And it was excellent (well, prequels aside).

 

Disney did not do what Lucas did. Lucas's actions were necessary, Disney's were not. How many more different ways can I say this?

 

We've been trying to tell him that but its not going to work. Somw people just don't like to hear the reality of the situation.

If you have something to contribute by all means, share. Implying more and more than I'm irrational, "out of touch" or whatever is not contributing. In fact it's bordering on the personal.

[Aries_cz]

They got VERY close to canonizing Revan in TCW (even as far as making digital models for him) and went with Darth Bane instead.

 

Actually, from what I read, they were both meant to be there, but Revan got cut at the last second by GL.

[Darth_Wicked]

Actually, from what I read, they were both meant to be there, but Revan got cut at the last second by GL.

 

The man can't do anything right nowadays, even if the very universe depended on it.

[Sarfux]

The whole reason they made the EU non canon (which is mostly the stuff after the movies) is BECAUSE of the direction of the new movies so they could be free to do what they wanted with the galaxy and new trilogy and beyond.

 

I don't think anything has an impact on the new stuff this far behind so they didn't even have to mention it because this was already common sense that things THIS far behind would have 100 percent NO impact on the direction of the new movies whatsoever. They just assumed people would pick up on that.

 

Jedi Civil War? No impact on the new movies

Hyperspace Battle? No impact

Creation of the Jedi/Sith orders? No impact

The Old Republic era? No impact

 

All the stuff that's THIS far back is just them assuming people will use common sense. I think they didn't even mention The Old Republic Era and all that stuff, history of the Jedi, Sith, Mandalorians etc this far back BECAUSE it's so far back it wouldn't even matter even IF they said "yes, all that stuff is canon." It's just assumed it is

 

Just use common sense guys. It's all obvious what they did.

[Aries_cz]

The man can't do anything right nowadays, even if the very universe depended on it.

 

We are talking about guy who thought Jar Jar was a good idea that would win over American youth with its humor, so, go figure...

[Pietrastor]

If there's gonna be any official announcement it will go with 3.0 announcement. It needs clarification as Disney said that all new SW material from now on will be under new canon and 3.0 WILL be new SW story material. So if they're gonna clarify one way or another at any point, it would have to be next week. Edited September 27, 2014 by Pietrastor

[CrutchCricket]

The whole reason they made the EU non canon (which is mostly the stuff after the movies) is BECAUSE of the direction of the new movies so they could be free to do what they wanted with the galaxy and new trilogy and beyond.

 

I don't think anything has an impact on the new stuff this far behind so they didn't even have to mention it because this was already common sense that things THIS far behind would have 100 percent NO impact on the direction of the new movies whatsoever. They just assumed people would pick up on that.

 

Jedi Civil War? No impact on the new movies

Hyperspace Battle? No impact

Creation of the Jedi/Sith orders? No impact

The Old Republic era? No impact

 

All the stuff that's THIS far back is just them assuming people will use common sense. I think they didn't even mention The Old Republic Era and all that stuff, history of the Jedi, Sith, Mandalorians etc this far back BECAUSE it's so far back it wouldn't even matter even IF they said "yes, all that stuff is canon." It's just assumed it is

 

Just use common sense guys. It's all obvious what they did.

Again, either dynamically overwriting the canon as they go or specifically removing only what stood in their way would've ensured their goal of creative freedom without needlessly destroying the rest.

 

And no, it's not assumed that Old Republic stuff is canon. It''s all gone. When asked specifically about stuff in the Old Republic era that had nothing to do with their new movies the reply was the same: non-canon. They went out of their way to remove everything. This is the source of the outrage.

[TheBBP]

Again, either dynamically overwriting the canon as they go or specifically removing only what stood in their way would've ensured their goal of creative freedom without needlessly destroying the rest.

 

And no, it's not assumed that Old Republic stuff is canon. It''s all gone. When asked specifically about stuff in the Old Republic era that had nothing to do with their new movies the reply was the same: non-canon. They went out of their way to remove everything. This is the source of the outrage.

 

Where do people get this? Nothing was destroyed or removed. The EU was NEVER at any point within the same canon as the films. Ever. Nobody in any official capacity ever even gave any hope that it would be canon. Nothing has changed in regards to those old novels and the films as they still enjoy the same status in regards to official Star Wars canon that they always have.

[CrutchCricket]

Once more, with feeling:

 

They were not official movie canon. They were official canon (right below the movies and later the Clone Wars).

 

Now they're nothing, because reasons (nothing to do with business decisions or creative freedom, which could've been secured otherwise at no extra cost). Something that once was and now is not can be said to have been destroyed (unless you're talking thermodynamics).

[JediRelentless]

I have no respect for people who are disrespectful toward Mr Lucas.

[TheBBP]

Once more, with feeling:

 

They were not official movie canon. They were official canon (right below the movies and later the Clone Wars).

 

Now they're nothing, because reasons (nothing to do with business decisions or creative freedom, which could've been secured otherwise at no extra cost). Something that once was and now is not can be said to have been destroyed (unless you're talking thermodynamics).

 

The only "official" canon is what Uncle George called canon. How is their previous status compared to the films any different than it is now? Every single mention that Lucas gave about the EU was to explain it as being an alternate universe that is different and not on the same level as his movies. The only thing that has changed is that it is now called "Legends".

[TravelersWay]

The only "official" canon is what Uncle George called canon. How is their previous status compared to the films any different than it is now? Every single mention that Lucas gave about the EU was to explain it as being an alternate universe that is different and not on the same level as his movies. The only thing that has changed is that it is now called "Legends".

 

That's the point he has been missing, or just refusing to accept, all this time. George Lucas repeatedly stated throughout the years that nothing outside of his movies was "official" canon. The only thing that Disney did differently than George, LA, and the Keepers of the Holocron this time around was lump all the non-canon stuff into one category instead of keeping the 5 categories that were used previously (and only used to classify and maintain consistency of the non-canon within itself). All official sources have always stated that only the movies were canon for the last 20-odd years. That's what people are refusing to accept.

Edited September 27, 2014 by TravelersWay

[LordArtemis]

We are talking about guy who thought Jar Jar was a good idea that would win over American youth with its humor, so, go figure...

 

And Midichlorians. "I don't like sand"....."I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM" with tears in his eyes....."Are you an angel?"....Darth Vader built C3PO. Darth Vader moans NOOOOOO.

 

And, of course, Greedo shot first. I shudder at this tomfoolery.

[Mozepy]

If that's the case, why is Star Trek constantly cited as an example when the canon was never unified "and it doesn't matter"? It can't be both. Either there was a unified canon or there wasn't. So which is it?

 

I'm stating to wonder what you mean by "unified". If you mean an official canon that includes everything ever produced under a particular name (Star Trek, Star Wars, Dr. Who...) none of them have had that. I told you what the official Star Trek canon was and that is what it was. The canon did not include the multitude of books.

 

Fans should stop listening to the opinions of businessmen who are barely vested in the universe.

[Fantazm]

6 of one half a dozen of the other.

 

noooooooooooooooooooooo is awful.

most of AOTC is awful.

 

But so is the Vong.

So is the Emperor coming back like some kind of villain of the week.

 

as examples.

[Arkerus]

If that's the case, why is Star Trek constantly cited as an example when the canon was never unified "and it doesn't matter"? It can't be both. Either there was a unified canon or there wasn't. So which is it?

 

And why do people keep bringing up that Lucas could change whatever he wanted? No one in the history of anything has ever contended that. He could change whatever he wanted at anytime. Great. Did that mean he had to **** on everything, or more importantly did he? The answer's a resounding "NO". Lucas did what he wanted, the rest of the franchise revolved around him. And it was excellent (well, prequels aside).

 

Disney did not do what Lucas did. Lucas's actions were necessary, Disney's were not. How many more different ways can I say this?

 

 

If you have something to contribute by all means, share. Implying more and more than I'm irrational, "out of touch" or whatever is not contributing. In fact it's bordering on the personal.

*chuckle*

 

I contributed plenty.