This Crap Needs to go... NOW!

[Toggy]

Ranged has solid advantages over melee.

 

This was known in beta.

 

Being FOTM (May be a few months since it just got released) is fun, but the nerf stick hits hard later.

 

Conspiracy theorists believe they did this to push more away from jedi/sith classes. As if being a bounty hunter or smuggler is not cool enough :-p

 

 

Things will change. First things first though... I think they will concentrate on brackets at the moment though.

[Valnarr]

See, this is the MOST ANNOYING THING about MMORPG PVP in that I've got to juggle a dozen hotbars of skills while dealing with bunny hoppers and circle strafing. The fact I actually aim is a good thing. Not only do I not have to worry about being strafed, I don't have to try doing it myself.

 

Learn how to not rely on a design flaw to win rather than complain about losing access to an exploit too many MMOs let happen.

 

I guess anyone who has a backstab like attack are just **** outta luck because moving behind someone is apparently a design flaw.

[Arumat]

Keyboard turner spotted.

 

 

On a serious note you can still LoS casters, not really sure what the issue OP is having.

 

"dancing" in pvp doesn't work in this game, which is something I was good at.

 

"dancing" is when 2 players are constantly moving trying to get back shots to eliminate avoidance chances and incease time they take to hit you by small ammounts.

 

In this game everyone autofaces upon attacking so long as your not moving. So that means anything ranged or melee just has to stand still and will always be facing the opponent for every ability.

 

This is something I'm not a fan of.

[Stealthsultan]

"while melee casters are fighting through multiple CCs, low FPS in warzones, rubberbanding opponents, and having to face directly at the target and be within 4m to use any attack."

 

The input lag and rubberbanding of people with bad connections are a bigger problem then autoface. This is a major issue for backstabbing classes; it compounds with the input lag and generally makes it a crapshoot for us. My back blast hits about as hard as a charged burst from cover; however, getting it off without a stun is extremely wonky. I'm a highly experienced wow pvp'er and this is not a L2P issue; its a consistency one.

 

I know the trolls are gonna come after me so I'll head you off first;

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=184375

 

Here's a movie of my wow playin (its the closest mele class to scoundel I had, and its entertaining and popular with lots of views!); if you don't think its me why don't you read the first line.

Look under my username: ulthwengsta I mainly played warlock up to the 2.4k bracket and you can watch some of my vids there, even look up my old armory. You want you bring out L2P; bring it!

[Arumat]

I know the trolls are gonna come after me so I'll head you off first;

 

http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=184375

 

At first I saw a Death Knight in a 2V1. I was about to just close it till I noticed something. Wait a pvp DK not blood?

 

Very nice. I commend you on your play skills.

[Ohaiguis]

To the OP, you may have a valid point but you have not shared with us any evidence. Could you upload a video or some screen shots? If that is not possible can you perhaps tell us what specific skills you are talking about?

 

As a ranged dps class I have always had to face my opponents to fire off skills.... so I am unsure what you are even talking about?

 

I'm Talking about working a ranged class as a mellee... the general plan of attack is to work their back... however, the current mechanic implimented into this game causes ranged attacks to automatically "face" the target after youve begun to cast them. Regardless of where your facing when the cast goes off, the cast will hit because at the time of cast, you were facing them. Its a crap system. period.

[Lidasel]

The auto-turn needs to go.

Example: Commando vs Assassin

 

The Commando will just spamm GravRound / Charged Bolts until the Assassin is down. The Assassin will never land a backstab because the Commando will always have his front turned to him because of auto-turning.

[EvanSnowWolf]

I am all in favor of getting rid of the strategy of running around people for the sole purpose of screwing with their targeting. Fight like a man.

[iSay]

This actually annoys me as a caster. I feel like I'm completely out of control of my character, I like to be the one playing the game - I'll face people manually thanks!

[Ohaiguis]

I am all in favor of getting rid of the strategy of running around people for the sole purpose of screwing with their targeting. Fight like a man.

 

o i'm sorry is it so hard for you to hold down the right mouse button and move ur player urself? I guess that would require you to not be using your arrow keys to move and clicking ur action bar tho....

[iSay]

I am all in favor of getting rid of the strategy of running around people for the sole purpose of screwing with their targeting. Fight like a man.

 

Yea, because us men just stand there and punch each other in face until one of us gives up.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Yea, because us men just stand there and punch each other in face until one of us gives up.

 

That's correct. Boxing is not a series of trying to rump the other guy from behind.

 

Seriously, this is an Assassin whine only. If you are a Warrior and are still trying that circle strafe crap, you need to DIAF.

[Arumat]

That's correct. Boxing is not a series of trying to rump the other guy from behind.

Boxing has rules.

 

A fight revolving around like and death + hatred towards eachother doesn't.

[EvanSnowWolf]

Boxing has rules.

 

A fight revolving around like and death + hatred towards eachother doesn't.

 

Circle stafing is not a rule.. it is an exploit. Your are basically admitting that your skill is lacking and you need to take advantage of a targeting flaw that's been in place in WoW since day one, and now that your precious elitist attack style is threatened, you act like everyone that doesn't believe in it is the scrub.

 

Wrong.

[EternalFinality]

Boxing has rules.

 

A fight revolving around like and death + hatred towards eachother doesn't.

 

Video games have rules too. You just don't need a referee, as the code of the game enforces them.

 

So....terrible counterargument.

Edited December 24, 2011 by EternalFinality

[Ohaiguis]

That's correct. Boxing is not a series of trying to rump the other guy from behind.

 

Seriously, this is an Assassin whine only. If you are a Warrior and are still trying that circle strafe crap, you need to DIAF.

 

Your posts hurt my brain... Boxing = MMO PvP.... I forgot... Try watching a UFC match if your gonna make rediculous comparisons, they DO try and work the back, quite often at that. i'm assuming you play a sniper? Explain how if you start cast snipe as i walk past you and when i'm 15m behind you chasing someone else and ur snipe goes off with our a hitch and nails me while ur still facing forward in your cover that that makes sense whatsoever. It's a crap system, just admit it and l2p

[EvanSnowWolf]

Your posts hurt my brain... Boxing = MMO PvP.... I forgot... Try watching a UFC match if your gonna make rediculous comparisons, they DO try and work the back, quite often at that. i'm assuming you play a sniper? Explain how if you start cast snipe as i walk past you and when i'm 15m behind you chasing someone else and ur snipe goes off with our a hitch and nails me while ur still facing forward in your cover that that makes sense whatsoever. It's a crap system, just admit it and l2p

 

UFC match? Speaking of things that hurt brains...

 

It isn't a crap system. And I do know how to play just fine. My point is that if these so called super awesome key binder folk are so awesome, then they don't need to try to exploit PvP opponents by trying to be behind them solely to try to axe their ability to target. That's like calling yourself a great hockey player because you break all the other team's sticks before the game.

[Ohaiguis]

UFC match? Speaking of things that hurt brains...

 

It isn't a crap system. And I do know how to play just fine. My point is that if these so called super awesome key binder folk are so awesome, then they don't need to try to exploit PvP opponents by trying to be behind them solely to try to axe their ability to target. That's like calling yourself a great hockey player because you break all the other team's sticks before the game.

 

lol? yes its exactly like that. and what keybinding have to do with working someones LoS? I'm still waiting for a valid argument from you other than "I don't like it myself" I think i'll be waiting a while.

[EvanSnowWolf]

lol? yes its exactly like that. and what keybinding have to do with working someones LoS? I'm still waiting for a valid argument from you other than "I don't like it myself" I think i'll be waiting a while.

 

Because it is the keybinders that usually defend that circle strafe nonsense with "lol cuz you click, scrub. lern 2 mouserun" or some other barely legible nonsense.

 

Here is the only valid argument you need:

 

Circle strafe is not a measure of skill, because you are just trying to make the other person unable to play (and not in that legit stun/cc way). You should be able to PvP just fine with your awesome skills without it. I do just fine in PvP and never, EVER do this crap. It isn't needed. Most of you people make claims like "It's part of the game, deal with it."

 

Guess what? Circle strafe obfuscation is NOT a part of this game. Deal with it.

 

 

WoW is that way ---------->

[Jjix]

Nah, you're just wrong. Circle strafing is no different than any other type of movement used to your advantage, including getting out of melee range, kiting, using terrain to break LoS.

[Grantag]

I learned a few things from this thread:

 

 

• Some people think facing (or not) others is hard and somehow represents skill or lack thereof
  
• Some people think that 180 spazzing around is skill
  
• Some people must not find choke (eliminates cover), push, charge, snare, own ranged to be more effective than said spazzing
  
• Some people believe that someone who is completely aware and actively attacking you should still be "back stabbable" even though it goes against any degree of immersion or prior rpg implementation of such a mechanic
  

 

 

Keep it going. I find this amusing.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Grantag

[Ohaiguis]

Because it is the keybinders that usually defend that circle strafe nonsense with "lol cuz you click, scrub. lern 2 mouserun" or some other barely legible nonsense.

 

Here is the only valid argument you need:

 

Circle strafe is not a measure of skill, because you are just trying to make the other person unable to play (and not in that legit stun/cc way). You should be able to PvP just fine with your awesome skills without it. I do just fine in PvP and never, EVER do this crap. It isn't needed. Most of you people make claims like "It's part of the game, deal with it."

 

Guess what? Circle strafe obfuscation is NOT a part of this game. Deal with it.

 

 

WoW is that way ---------->

 

Actually WoW is This way <---------.This game isnt designed for autoface, period, especially when the ranged are the only classes that do it. And How is it not a measure? someone who can play a ranged class well can easily deal with it. and provided all the freaking knockbacks and slows that every ranged class has in this game its absolutely no problem distancing yourself from mellee...So we should eliminate, or I guess in the case of this game, continue to leave out a level of differentiation betwen players because we want to baby ranged classes who join PvP? PvP entails... competition? possibly meeting ppl who are better than you? no... not that, ANYTHING but that! lets just have em stand here in the middle of the map and click their action bar and be successful. I'd like to see your level of doing just fine because if you've played a mellee in this game for more than 2 matches you'd know ranged deffinately has the upper hand, in almost all aspects of whats needed to PvP sucessfully. I'm pointing out one, and its a big one.

 

1. Mellee classes need to be manually controlled and posistioned.

2. Ranged don't, and in SWTOR they dont even have to face thier target as long as they casted when they were, o and whoops, autoface, so now they are in position to do it again.

 

You see the problem here? Your demanding mellee to actually do something, and you demanding ranged to just smack their face off the keyboard, it's a balancing issue, whether you like it or not.

 

If we wanna play by your theory then the swingbox for mellee needs to be buffed to about a 280 degree angle, then it'd be balanced... then I could stand next to ppl and be lazy like you.

 

Btw, you still havnt explained the validity of my sniper comment... i'm waiting... 15m behind you while your facing the other direction...elaborate on it please.

[Ohaiguis]

Because it is the keybinders that usually defend that circle strafe nonsense with "lol cuz you click, scrub. lern 2 mouserun" or some other barely legible nonsense.

 

Here is the only valid argument you need:

 

Circle strafe is not a measure of skill, because you are just trying to make the other person unable to play (and not in that legit stun/cc way). You should be able to PvP just fine with your awesome skills without it. I do just fine in PvP and never, EVER do this crap. It isn't needed. Most of you people make claims like "It's part of the game, deal with it."

 

Guess what? Circle strafe obfuscation is NOT a part of this game. Deal with it.

 

 

WoW is that way ---------->

 

Actually WoW is This way <---------.This game isnt designed for autoface, period, especially when the ranged are the only classes that do it. And How is it not a measure? someone who can play a ranged class well can easily deal with it. and provided all the freaking knockbacks and slows that every ranged class has in this game its absolutely no problem distancing yourself from mellee...So we should eliminate, or I guess in the case of this game, continue to leave out a level of differentiation betwen players because we want to baby ranged classes who join PvP? PvP entails... competition? possibly meeting ppl who are better than you? no... not that, ANYTHING but that! lets just have em stand here in the middle of the map and click their action bar and be successful. I'd like to see your level of doing just fine because if you've played a mellee in this game for more than 2 matches you'd know ranged deffinately has the upper hand, in almost all aspects of whats needed to PvP sucessfully. I'm pointing out one, and its a big one.

 

1. Mellee classes need to be manually controlled and posistioned.

2. Ranged don't, and in SWTOR they dont even have to face thier target as long as they casted when they were, o and whoops, autoface, so now they are in position to do it again.

 

You see the problem here? Your demanding mellee to actually do something, and you demanding ranged to just smack their face off the keyboard, it's a balancing issue, whether you like it or not.

 

If we wanna play by your theory then the swingbox for mellee needs to be buffed to about a 280 degree angle, then it'd be balanced... then I could stand next to ppl and be lazy like you.

 

Btw, you still havnt explained the validity of my sniper comment... i'm waiting... 15m behind you while your facing the other direction...elaborate on it please.

[Birdflew]

It could be abused the other way around too.

 

If a melee is hitting someone in the face, and the enemy uses a channeled spell, running through the caster would work as an interrupt.

 

I'm not sure, but wouldn´t that be even a bigger problem?

 

/Bird

[Sedisp]

Ranged classes simply have more tools to cc than melee classes do. The only reason I ever need to move is on my sage and thats less "he'll prevent me from casting" and more "I have little armor"

 

As a Gunslinger? Lol full damage at melee why bother?

 

I mean if your argument is melee should have tools to get in range fine but there should be a massive dps loss by having someone humping your leg as a ranged class and there currently isn't.

 

If ranged has tools to keep someone at range why should they also have tools to free cast at melees range.

 

That literally means adding a disadvantage to melee and melee only since ranged doesn't have a minimum range to engage.

 

The only way to make this fair would be for melee classes to have 100% up time (which they don't) or deal such stupid amounts of damage that getting into melee range against a caster would be insta game over.

 

Neither exists and neither is a particularly attractive option.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Yvin
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