AP PvP: Static Crit vs. Power Stack

[DarksideWK]

I'm not a theorycrafter, but has anyone tried static crit + pwr and main stat relics vs. stacking power and pwr/crit relics for AP PvP and can verify it's THE way to go?

 

Conceptually: 24 or 25% crit and less power might make your flame burst hit less, but Immolate, RP, and FT critting more often w/ a bump to power AND pwr/crit every 20 secs or so seems pretty nice.

 

Would appreciate some feedback.

[TACeMossie]

I'm not a theorycrafter, but has anyone tried static crit + pwr and main stat relics vs. stacking power and pwr/crit relics for AP PvP and can verify it's THE way to go?

 

Conceptually: 24 or 25% crit and less power might make your flame burst hit less, but Immolate, RP, and FT critting more often w/ a bump to power AND pwr/crit every 20 secs or so seems pretty nice.

 

Would appreciate some feedback.

 

I prefer the mainstat/power option, but random fact:

 

Grabbing 550 crit rating gets your tech crit rate to 29%. Due to all your talents and the set bonus, this means Rocket Punch has a 50% crit rate

Not recommended, but hey. Its there

Edited April 16, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Brunner_Venda]

I prefer the mainstat/power option, but random fact:

 

Grabbing 550 crit rating gets your tech crit rate to 29%. Due to all your talents and the set bonus, this means Rocket Punch has a 50% crit rate

Not recommended, but hey. Its there

 

Not going to knock this since so many AP abilities have a 30% surge bonus.

 

I'm wondering though, would it work out better to use the crit relic instead?

 

Or is that too much RNG (that is, RNG chance for more RNG, lol)?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[Sosajoshua]

i was kind of thinking the same thing. i use matrix cubes because i prefer them but idk if i want serpend-assault relic or another. i wont switch out matrix cube but ideas on other relic?

[Aetrus]

I'm not really clear on exactly what you're asking, so if I'm saying something you're already saying OP feel free to ignore it. I've run both full power/surge with the mainstat and power relics, as well as 23% static crit (216 crit rating) with the mainstat and crit relics.

 

I can tell you that in duels/1v1s I would go with the full power/surge option. However, in my experience inside full length WZs and arenas the static 23% crit pulls higher numbers. Not by a considerable margin, we're talking a 30-80 DPS gain, but it's there. Pyro is the same way.

 

Credentials?

[DarksideWK]

I'm not really clear on exactly what you're asking, so if I'm saying something you're already saying OP feel free to ignore it. I've run both full power/surge with the mainstat and power relics, as well as 23% static crit (216 crit rating) with the mainstat and crit relics.

 

I can tell you that in duels/1v1s I would go with the full power/surge option. However, in my experience inside full length WZs and arenas the static 23% crit pulls higher numbers. Not by a considerable margin, we're talking a 30-80 DPS gain, but it's there. Pyro is the same way.

 

I'm speaking about having SOME crit/surge gear and crit/surge implants as a "go to" setup, as opposed to running full power/surge and relying on the crit relic to proc.

 

With a full power/surge build plus crit/pwr relics...you're basically getting 3 gcd's every 20 secs or so worth of crit, plus the stuff you'd get running 18-20% crit. To me (with no math to back it up), it seems more optimal to have a higher static crit rate (24/25), and watch your power and main stat relics boost those crits instead.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

I prefer the mainstat/power option, but random fact:

 

Grabbing 550 crit rating gets your tech crit rate to 29%. Due to all your talents and the set bonus, this means Rocket Punch has a 50% crit rate

Not recommended, but hey. Its there

 

That number of 550 crit to get 29% Tech crit is bullcrap. my dad has a Merc healer with 30% crit with 0 crit rating, sure there's 4% from Talents and buffs other than Agent, but that would mean that without Crit rating, and about 3000 Aim (roughly what my dad has) that's 26% Tech Crit, not factoring in Cunning, and having more than 3000 Aim, and not factoring in any other crit buffs, like Adrenals, and Relics. So, i call bull on needing 550 crit for 29% Crit.

[Aetrus]

I'm speaking about having SOME crit/surge gear and crit/surge implants as a "go to" setup, as opposed to running full power/surge and relying on the crit relic to proc.

 

With a full power/surge build plus crit/pwr relics...you're basically getting 3 gcd's every 20 secs or so worth of crit, plus the stuff you'd get running 18-20% crit. To me (with no math to back it up), it seems more optimal to have a higher static crit rate (24/25), and watch your power and main stat relics boost those crits instead.

 

I'd say if you're going to run crit, you want the crit relic. You'll get roughly 9% extra ranged crit when it procs, which is a significantly better investment than killing your bonus dmg by trying to hit 25% static crit.

[TACeMossie]

That number of 550 crit to get 29% Tech crit is bullcrap. my dad has a Merc healer with 30% crit with 0 crit rating, sure there's 4% from Talents and buffs other than Agent, but that would mean that without Crit rating, and about 3000 Aim (roughly what my dad has) that's 26% Tech Crit, not factoring in Cunning, and having more than 3000 Aim, and not factoring in any other crit buffs, like Adrenals, and Relics. So, i call bull on needing 550 crit for 29% Crit.

 

Assuming PvP Gear: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/b1089b4e-ad3f-4e7d-90c3-2ae11b74c76b

Slightly more than 29% tech crit, slightly more than 550 crit rating. The website used runs using the standard system for calculating crit rating. This is not a completely serious set up, but was put together to show that you have only a 20% tech crit rate without getting crit rating, even augmented.

 

The boost from Crit Rating has been confirmed in game.

As such, your entire post here was unnecessary and completely wrong.

 

As for your merc healer... Gets +3% Ranged crit, +6% tech crit. So a 26% tech crit makes sense. No idea why your dad has a much higher ranged crit rate when mercs can't get ranged crit without getting tech crit though. Unless you typod. Or are making up numbers to look like a big man.

 

Also, crit rating from mainstat = 20*( 1 - ( 1 - ( 0.01 / 0.2) )^( Aim / 302.5 )) % bonus crit.

so for 3000 aim, you get 7.9744% bonus crit. The 155.4 cunning max you can get equates to 0.5201% bonus crit. The base crit is 5%, and agent buff + companion buff is 6%. Overall, these get you 19.4945% tech crit rate. Much less than the 30 your dad has.

 

Then we add in the 3% for ranged and 6% for tech that merc healers have and its 25.4945% tech crit rate.

 

Hell, if you want a Pyro Merc (highest ranged crit rate) thats running 2/8/36 to hit 30% ranged crit without using crit rating, you need 4710 Aim. Good luck hitting that (well it happens with the Focused Retribution relic, but thats it)

 

However, you inspired me to look at my numbers and they too are wrong! You need 534 crit rating to beat a 29% tech crit chance when in optimized Brutalizer gear.

 

I'd say if you're going to run crit, you want the crit relic. You'll get roughly 9% extra ranged crit when it procs, which is a significantly better investment than killing your bonus dmg by trying to hit 25% static crit.

 

That may be the case, but its significantly easier to optimize gear if you put crit in some of it instead of power. The 'bad' AMR I linked above had only 1 enhancement swapped out, and that one carried alacrity. The Belt + Bracer also came pre-optimized.

 

Sure its a little over the top with crit, but swap the earpiece/crit implant/crit belt/crit bracer for power ones, and you are pretty much optimized. (gets 297 crit, which is 95.76% of the damage from tech attacks, but a much higher tech crit rate)

 

Also the damage on ranged attacks is much better too (Ranged attacks AKA Rail shot have a much lower effect from power and a much higher effect from base weapon damage, as such crit is more useful there)

Edited April 17, 2014 by TACeMossie

[OM-AR]

I am currently testing going full crit.

The other day I went head to head with a geared sniper at DF HM, it was definitely a race as we would both pull on each other at different times. I was expecting to get wiped against everyone else but was shocked to see I was battling for -#1 spot.

 

Before anyway tells me that sniper should L2P. I will continue testing and report how it goes.

[Aetrus]

Before anyway tells me that sniper should L2P. I will continue testing and report how it goes.

Okay. Here's a more generous spin on it: maybe you're just a much better player than he is.

 

Also, this thread is about PVP.

[Kooziejr]

I am currently testing going full crit.

The other day I went head to head with a geared sniper at DF HM, it was definitely a race as we would both pull on each other at different times. I was expecting to get wiped against everyone else but was shocked to see I was battling for -#1 spot.

 

Before anyway tells me that sniper should L2P. I will continue testing and report how it goes.

 

Full crit is not smart. sorry. doesn't matter pve or pvp. theorycrafting says the DR is crap. This isn't really up for debate or testing at this point. It just means ur stubborn or stupid if you think you are "testing" it.

[TACeMossie]

Full crit is not smart. sorry. doesn't matter pve or pvp. theorycrafting says the DR is crap. This isn't really up for debate or testing at this point. It just means ur stubborn or stupid if you think you are "testing" it.

 

I explained it in another thread: Its not the DR thats crap, its the initial returns.

 

The formulae for crit is:

 

Bonus Crit % = 30 x (1 - (1 - (0.01/0.3))^(Crit/49.5))

The first point of crit gives 0.021% crit chance, which is not that good without lots of bonus power to back it up.

If you went max crit with Dread Masters gear (though still using a power proc + mainstat relic), you get 20.36% crit chance from your crit rating, which is 0.0123% crit chance per point, which, sure its bad, but remember in dread masters gear you have on average 1757.6 tech power before mods/enhancements/earpieces/implants/crystals, So with Immolate, Rocket Punch, Flamethrower and Retractable Blade, you end up with 0.262% more damage with crit like that, while power is 0.0144% more damage per point (give some more for elemental attacks)- though more crit increases the value of power and vice versa. This also doesn't account for the auto-crit for rail shot, or the reduced surge on Flame Burst, Rapid Shots and Shoulder Cannon.

 

But then again, if we look at the Beserker level of gear, you have much less tech power, and by extension you have power being worth much more.

Max Crit for Beserker gear is 1028, which is 15.16% bonus crit, or 0.0147% crit per point, and with the average tech power being 1262.1 at max crit, 1 point of power is 0.019% power increase per point with the same rules about crit and power increasing the value of each other.

 

Ok I guess the way I put it was wrong, but still, it says that avoiding crit is bad, but going max crit isn't the end of the world either. Maths stated in a sustained situation, max crit or max power is only 2% off an optimized crit to power ratio. More crit means the lucky crits happen more often, but more power means the lucky crits hit for more. Its up to personal preference.

 

Though remember - In AP spec, Crit does literally nothing to Rail Shot, while Power has the full effect of auto-crits with it.

 

If you judge DR by the half-life, crit is somewhere in the 2.5k range for DR to kick in, while Shield/Defense/Absorb/Accuracy/Alacrity are all around 1.5k, Surge is about 250, and power is... at 2 power (the increase from 1 power to 2 power in % damage is twice that of 2 power to 3 power)

Edited April 19, 2014 by TACeMossie

[OM-AR]

Okay. Here's a more generous spin on it: maybe you're just a much better player than he is.

 

Also, this thread is about PVP.

 

Might have missed the pvp part