KDY still not 2x

[TheGreatFrosty]

I'm speaking about the base numbers for non-doubled experience.

 

What I mean by multiplicative(as opposed to flat-stacking), is when you multiply the bonuses.

 

Rested Experienced is multiplicative.

Double Experience is multiplicative.

Experience boosts(the CM items) are flat stacking.

Character Perks are flat stacking.

 

 

Multiplicative would look like this: 1.25*1.25=1.5625, for a subscriber using an experience boost during normal experience. This is NOT how character perks and experience boosts work. This is only how double xp and rested xp works.

 

Flat stacking(which is what all boosts except for rested and double xp use) looks like this: 1+.25+.25=1.5

 

I'm tired and much of what you say is going over my head, but I appreciate the attempt to explain.

 

But am I right in thinking you mean to suggest that boosts are not affected by these double EXP weekends? The original idea, as proposed by Eric, was for a straight double on the boosts used and then that new % increased applied to the new base. So 25% would be 50%, and legacy would become 60%. Then these values were applied to the base.

[OddballEasyEight]

not sure what needs "clarification"

 

i don't think it works any differently. The problem as I understand it. people go into KDY with fully rested XP and get XXX xp per mob.

 

go in during double XP weekend and see XXX xp rather than 2x(XXX) and people complain that double XP isnt working.

 

The explanation being that rested XP IS double XP If you run around with Green XP bars normally, you are ALREADY getting double XP and would expect half that normally. Which on a double XP weekend woudl be what you would normally see if you previously had a green bar.

 

If you run around with yellow xp bar normally, on double XP weekend you will see 2x the normal experience which would be equal to having rested XP the entire time.

 

Now this varies for those who are FTP or Subscription

 

I'm too tired to read the entire thread so I'll just quote this part.

 

The problem many had during last double xp weekend wasn't that they were getting the same xp as they usually did with rested xp.

It was that they were getting what they would usually get without rested xp and thus were getting less than they normally would when it wasn't a double xp weekend.

It wasn't that people were too dumb to figure out that rested xp would give them the same as double xp on mobs, but they were not getting double xp for mobs and that meant that they were getting less than they would normally get from their first run on KDY (with rested xp).

I hope I'm making myself clear here because I'm so tired that I can barely keep my eyes open right now

 

That said, I think it's working for me at least. I was playing with a lvl 30 using only the legacy boost and guild boost and getting slightly over 200 xp for normal mob kills.

And according to musco I would get 190 something for a normal mob on double xp/rested xp without any boosts so that sounds ok to me.

Edited April 11, 2014 by OddballEasyEight

[Vandicus]

I'm tired and much of what you say is going over my head, but I appreciate the attempt to explain.

 

But am I right in thinking you mean to suggest that boosts are not affected by these double EXP weekends? The original idea, as proposed by Eric, was for a straight double on the boosts used and then that new % increased applied to the new base. So 25% would be 50%, and legacy would become 60%. Then these values were applied to the base.

 

Boosts are affected. The only complaint being made in Eric's original thread is that character perks and experience boost items don't seem to be working to the degree that people expect.

 

 

To go back to my example of the 25% boost item, also visible if you look at eric's numbers.

 

Since people view the 25% boost as only a 20% boost, when doubled it only appears to be a 40% boost(so you appear to be falling a full 10% short).

 

Eric's original March To Makeb post is misleading, because it doesn't account for subscriber bonuses.

 

What is actually happening is:

100%

25%(subscriber)

25%(boost)

30% (perk)

=180%

Doubled=360%

 

What appears(if you don't realize that f2p is the base experience) to be happening is

100%

20% (boost)

24% (perk)

=144%

Doubled =288%

 

 

The 288% more than normal (I stress the word normal here, because that's what people are actually concerned with) is what people will have happen. Mathematically, its 360% of the experience that someone using baseline experience would received.

 

*EDIT

 

Most importantly, if Eric's numbers from the testers don't match what's seen in game, there's a problem. If the in-game experience matches Eric's numbers, which are mathematically consistent with the promised bonuses, then everything's good.

 

2nd EDIT

 

The numbers from Eric's thread that I quoted I believe were the solo run numbers. The party run numbers are also available in the thread. Hopefully those numbers are correct.

 

I have no idea how experience multipliers interact in a party environment

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[Jeweledleah]

KDY in general seems to be nerfed. completing bonus quests gives very little xp (on my lvl 27 assassin - it gave a me little over 6k for completing a bonus. normal flashpoints give significantly more than that even without double xp)

 

however - its still worth it to run at least once a day for the planetary coms (especially when you need so much more of them with outleveling gear much faster) and doubled quest turn in.

my plan is basically - one a day Kyat, pvp daily, flashpoint daily while planetary questing and bounty even because why not?

[DawnAskham]

All of these questions could be answered if we had a simple and clear post from the developers stating exactly how XP is calculated and how each and every possible boost, buff or subscriber benefit affects XP.

 

All we have now are pieces and parts of the data and a lot of extrapolation from the small bits of data we can see.

 

It would be great if the game and most of its communication hadn't been designed with obfuscation in mind, and actually provided simple details in game like showing the base XP awarded along with any and all boost, buffs, or subscriber benefits.

 

Then everyone would have the same information to work from and could verify if the XP they receive for any given activity with any combination of boos, buff or subscriber benefit matched the way it was described by the developers.

 

This of course would mean Bioware having to explain things like why a boost marketed as providing a 25% benefit doesn't really provide such a benefit unless you apply the 25% to a hidden base and ignore the subscriber 'bonus' XP which is already built into the base and displayed when awarded to subscribers.

 

It would also mean stating that double xp weekend is basically the same as rested with the addition of a 2X bonus to mission rather than try to hype up the benefits of boosts and unlocks to drive Cartel Market sales.

 

And the above is why I get ticked a bit over this issue.

 

It isn't that double XP weekends are bad or that CM boosts are worthless or that there aren't plenty of ways to leverage all the possible XP modifiers, but rather that Bioware seems disingenuous when they market all this stuff so heavily while failing to fully disclose and clarify how it all is designed to work.

Edited April 11, 2014 by DawnAskham

[Vandicus]

 

Then everyone would have the same information to work from and could verify if the XP they receive for any given activity with any combination of boos, buff or subscriber benefit matched the way it was described by the developers.

 

This of course would mean Bioware having to explain things like why a boost marketed as providing a 25% benefit doesn't really do so unless you apply the benefit to a hidden base and ignore the 'bonus' XP awarded to subscribers.

 

It would also mean stating that double xp weekend is basically rested with a bonus to missions. rather than try to hype up the benefits of boosts and unlocks to drive Cartel Market sales.

 

And the above is why I get ticked a bit over this issue.

 

It isn't that double XP weekends are bad or that CM boosts are worthless or that there aren't plenty of ways to leverage all the possible XP modifiers, but rather that Bioware seems disingenuous when they market all this stuff so heavily while failing to fully disclose and clairify how it all is designed to work.

 

That's a very fair way of looking at it. Mob experience is no better off on double exp, than it is on rested exp. Bioware has given the impression to people that it is.

 

Double XP doubles xp from quests, warzones, space missions, GSF,(including their respective boosts and perks) but not from mobs(its equivalent to rested xp on mobs). Easiest way to look at it.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[DarthTHC]

All of these questions could be answered if we had a simple and clear post from the developers stating exactly how XP is calculated and how each and every possible boost, buff or subscriber benefit affects XP.

 

All we have now are pieces and parts of the data and a lot of extrapolation from the small bits of data we can see.

 

It would be great if the game and most of its communication hadn't been designed with obfuscation in mind, and actually provided simple details in game like showing the base XP awarded along with any and all boost, buffs, or subscriber benefits.

 

Then everyone would have the same information to work from and could verify if the XP they receive for any given activity with any combination of boos, buff or subscriber benefit matched the way it was described by the developers.

 

This of course would mean Bioware having to explain things like why a boost marketed as providing a 25% benefit doesn't really provide such a benefit unless you apply the 25% to a hidden base and ignore the subscriber 'bonus' XP which is already built into the base and displayed when awarded to subscribers.

 

It would also mean stating that double xp weekend is basically the same as rested with the addition of a 2X bonus to mission rather than try to hype up the benefits of boosts and unlocks to drive Cartel Market sales.

 

And the above is why I get ticked a bit over this issue.

 

It isn't that double XP weekends are bad or that CM boosts are worthless or that there aren't plenty of ways to leverage all the possible XP modifiers, but rather that Bioware seems disingenuous when they market all this stuff so heavily while failing to fully disclose and clarify how it all is designed to work.

 

Double exp works like they say it works. A player's inability to understand math doesn't make BioWare deceitful or evasive.

[TheGreatFrosty]

Boosts are affected. The only complaint being made in Eric's original thread is that character perks and experience boost items don't seem to be working to the degree that people expect.

 

 

To go back to my example of the 25% boost item, also visible if you look at eric's numbers.

 

Since people view the 25% boost as only a 20% boost, when doubled it only appears to be a 40% boost(so you appear to be falling a full 10% short).

 

Eric's original March To Makeb post is misleading, because it doesn't account for subscriber bonuses.

 

What is actually happening is:

100%

25%(subscriber)

25%(boost)

30% (perk)

=180%

Doubled=360%

 

What appears(if you don't realize that f2p is the base experience) to be happening is

100%

20% (boost)

24% (perk)

=144%

Doubled =288%

 

 

The 288% more than normal (I stress the word normal here, because that's what people are actually concerned with) is what people will have happen. Mathematically, its 360% of the experience that someone using baseline experience would received.

 

*EDIT

 

Most importantly, if Eric's numbers from the testers don't match what's seen in game, there's a problem. If the in-game experience matches Eric's numbers, which are mathematically consistent with the promised bonuses, then everything's good.

 

2nd EDIT

 

The numbers from Eric's thread that I quoted I believe were the solo run numbers. The party run numbers are also available in the thread. Hopefully those numbers are correct.

 

I have no idea how experience multipliers interact in a party environment

 

I'm with you now.

 

I still think there must be something going in (possibly in party groups) because I get less EXP per mob kill from double EXP weekends than I do from rested EXP. And that's not just me being derpy - I saw it before and tested it again this time.

 

I do appreciate the help though.

 

My opinion towards Bioware on this remains the same, however. I still solidly believe that a well-explained post could have cleared this up. But as another poster pointed out, not ducking their heads underneath the table would have meant explaining why boost returns are not as advertised etc. It's more annoying that so much input was given to the other thread, which was in turn entirely ignored. As I said, it's either an ability to articulate the above or a reluctance to admit certain inaccuracies in the previously provided formula.

[Vandicus]

I'm with you now.

I still think there must be something going in (possibly in party groups) because I get less EXP per mob kill from double EXP weekends than I do from rested EXP. And that's not just me being derpy - I saw it before and tested it again this time.

 

I do appreciate the help though.

 

My opinion towards Bioware on this remains the same, however. I still solidly believe that a well-explained post could have cleared this up. But as another poster pointed out, not ducking their heads underneath the table would have meant explaining why boost returns are not as advertised etc. It's more annoying that so much input was given to the other thread, which was in turn entirely ignored. As I said, it's either an ability to articulate the above or a reluctance to admit certain inaccuracies in the previously provided formula.

 

That first part sounds like something is wrong. The test numbers that Eric's team brought us are internally correct, but that doesn't mean there isn't something off with how live is granting xp.

 

Bioware has not(to my knowledge) provided a super clear explanation of how experience works. To my recollection, we didn't realize that perks were flat stacking until experience boosts were introduced with the CM(having only one multiplier meaning we never had anything to compare it against except baseline). I suspect that the game devs understand how the xp works, but the community team isn't as solid on the details and the message gets a little garbled when relayed from the dev team to the community team, to us.

 

*EDIT

 

However the understanding that boosts are flat stacking while rested xp and double xp did come from dev posts.

 

The distinction is not made explicit outside of the formulas they showed us though.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[Cernow]

It's a mess really. For whatever reason (working as intended or bugged) KDY is giving the same xps from kills during Double XP as it does during normal xp. The only thing different is the completion mission xps. All in all, it's not hugely better than running KDY during normal xps.

 

Furthermore, pre-55 KDY does not qualify for the Weekly Searching For Allies, despite being listed under Flashpoints.

[DOHboy]

It's a mess really. For whatever reason (working as intended or bugged) KDY is giving the same xps from kills during Double XP as it does during normal xp. The only thing different is the completion mission xps. All in all, it's not hugely better than running KDY during normal xps.

 

Furthermore, pre-55 KDY does not qualify for the Weekly Searching For Allies, despite being listed under Flashpoints.

 

if you are rested and using boosts during "normal" xp when you move to double xp it will be similar. If you are not using any of the above and unrested then there would be a problem.

[ZionHalcyon]

So without Legacy bonuses but with XP boosts, about on average how full are people filling up their XP bar on one run of KDY?

[Cernow]

if you are rested and using boosts during "normal" xp when you move to double xp it will be similar. If you are not using any of the above and unrested then there would be a problem.

 

Yep, that about the sum of it.

 

(Normal XP + Rested + 25% Boost + Legacy boost) = (Double XP + 25% Boost + Legacy boost).

 

I guess this is working as intended because the Double XP replaces (rather than doubles) the Rested bonus.

[Jeweledleah]

So without Legacy bonuses but with XP boosts, about on average how full are people filling up their XP bar on one run of KDY?

 

on my level 25 operative? about 3/4 of a bar. counting the quest turn in at the end, but not counting the daily.

 

It's a mess really. For whatever reason (working as intended or bugged) KDY is giving the same xps from kills during Double XP as it does during normal xp. The only thing different is the completion mission xps. All in all, it's not hugely better than running KDY during normal xps.

 

Furthermore, pre-55 KDY does not qualify for the Weekly Searching For Allies, despite being listed under Flashpoints.

 

that is false. I just did 2 KDY on 2 different characters and it counted towards weekly for both of them. (though I did have both types of flashpoints selected, but both times, I was dropped into KDY)

Edited April 11, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Cernow]

that is false. I just did 2 KDY on 2 different characters and it counted towards weekly for both of them. (though I did have both types of flashpoints selected, but both times, I was dropped into KDY)

 

Edit: just tested this and it doesn't work. I queued with Group Finder with all Flashpoints for my level (41) ticked and all Tactical Flashpoints (i.e. KDY) ticked. Naturally being Double XP weekend, KDY popped. Completed it. But the Weekly Searching For Allies did not update and complete.

 

Seems there is a problem pre 55 (I know that you can complete the Weekly Searching For Allies at 55 by just queueing for tacticals).

Edited April 12, 2014 by Cernow
Further info

[NoFishing]

It would also mean stating that double xp weekend is basically the same as rested with the addition of a 2X bonus to mission rather than try to hype up the benefits of boosts and unlocks to drive Cartel Market sales.

 

In the bit you quoted earlier from Eric had:

 

*THIS BONUS DOES NOT STACK WITH RESTED EXPERIENCE

 

Also in the game, when you hover over the experience bar, it says "During this time rest experience will not be applied or consumed."

 

Seems like they have made it pretty clear that rested XP had no impact during double XP periods. Also, it is worth bearing in mind that rested XP caps at +1 level of XP. No way are you going to run KDY more than a couple of times and not burn through all your rested XP. Double XP is only capped by the number of hours you play.

[CmdrShpd]

Edit: just tested this and it doesn't work. I queued with Group Finder with all Flashpoints for my level (41) ticked and all Tactical Flashpoints (i.e. KDY) ticked. Naturally being Double XP weekend, KDY popped. Completed it. But the Weekly Searching For Allies did not update and complete.

 

Seems there is a problem pre 55 (I know that you can complete the Weekly Searching For Allies at 55 by just queueing for tacticals).

 

I was able to complete the Searching for Allies weekly just doing KDY (though queueing for everything).

[Jeweledleah]

Edit: just tested this and it doesn't work. I queued with Group Finder with all Flashpoints for my level (41) ticked and all Tactical Flashpoints (i.e. KDY) ticked. Naturally being Double XP weekend, KDY popped. Completed it. But the Weekly Searching For Allies did not update and complete.

 

Seems there is a problem pre 55 (I know that you can complete the Weekly Searching For Allies at 55 by just queueing for tacticals).

 

that seems definitely off.

 

becasue I swear to you, I got it completed on 2 different characters today in their mid 20ties. turning in weekly searching for allies was a huge chunk of xp for them and I know I didn't complete it earlier in a week, becasue I deliberately didn't even pick it up from a terminal until after double xp weekend started, becasue I didn't want to turn it in for regular amount of xp by accident.

 

I would file a bug report, seriously. this does not seem like working as intended situation.

[Arkerus]

Close topic. Drive yards gives double xp. It does not stack with rested.

[Jeweledleah]

and I just tested a theory by queuing ONLY for Kyat drives. lvl 34 (lvl 35 at the end) powertech. weekly counted. so if it doesn't count for you, something is very off and bug report should be filed

[CmdrShpd]

Also worth noting: we are able to pick up the level 55 tactical FP weekly mission well before reaching level 55. I don't think this is intentional, but that's beside the point. If you do KDY 5 times, you can turn this mission in for some seriously good XP (I got 120,000 at level 44).

[Tannatra]

Also worth noting: we are able to pick up the level 55 tactical FP weekly mission well before reaching level 55. I don't think this is intentional, but that's beside the point. If you do KDY 5 times, you can turn this mission in for some seriously good XP (I got 120,000 at level 44).

 

only if you are on republic... Imp players dont get that quest until 55 like it should be lol

[CmdrShpd]

only if you are on republic... Imp players dont get that quest until 55 like it should be lol

 

Huh. What a strange bug! Not that I'm complaining!

[Jeweledleah]

those numbers in a Eric's post are all off. and/or experience in a world is all off?

 

leveling my 37 powertech on Hoth. killing lvl 37 Talz.

 

regular talz gives me upper 500 xp. strong Talz give me 1700ish. elites give around 3k. and so on.

 

go into Kyat Drives? half that. sounds like its STILL giving regular not rested xp. at this point, the only reason I'm doing it once a day is because of the double initial quest turn in. one for the random tactical and one for KDY specifically. that and planetary coms. otherwise, I'm literally better off just grinding random mobs on a planet of my level.

[Vandicus]

those numbers in a Eric's post are all off. and/or experience in a world is all off?

 

leveling my 37 powertech on Hoth. killing lvl 37 Talz.

 

regular talz gives me upper 500 xp. strong Talz give me 1700ish. elites give around 3k. and so on.

 

go into Kyat Drives? half that. sounds like its STILL giving regular not rested xp. at this point, the only reason I'm doing it once a day is because of the double initial quest turn in. one for the random tactical and one for KDY specifically. that and planetary coms. otherwise, I'm literally better off just grinding random mobs on a planet of my level.

 

Eric's first post is solo Kuat Drives, not party xp. Double XP is basically the same as Rested XP for KDY(except for the quest xp, which is doubled)

 

*EDIT

 

By off, do you mean off as in compared to what's in game, or off in relation to each other? Because they're perfectly consistent in relation to each other.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Vandicus