KDY still not 2x

[lordkamiel]

What a shame.

[DarthTHC]

Rested experience and 2x will give exactly the same result on mob kills. You can only tell if it's 2x by comparing quest experience rewards.

 

My plan is to run KDY once on each character, from the group finder, to get all the bonuses from the missions that way. Then move on to more quest-based experience gathering methods because those are the big gifts during 2x weekend.

Edited April 11, 2014 by DarthTHC

[TheGreatFrosty]

Maths is hard for Bioware. No explanation as to why it isn't fixed, with an entire thread dedicated to providing numbers stating emphatically how it is still broken.

 

Two explanations:

• Bioware is stupid
  
• They are trying to revert initial double EXP gains without being transparent about it
  

[Infernixx]

Maths is hard for Bioware. No explanation as to why it isn't fixed, with an entire thread dedicated to providing numbers stating emphatically how it is still broken.

 

Two explanations:

• Bioware is stupid
  
• They are trying to revert initial double EXP gains without being transparent about it
  

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php?page=3

 

Go to his post concerning XP gains.

[DOHboy]

Maths is hard for Bioware. No explanation as to why it isn't fixed, with an entire thread dedicated to providing numbers stating emphatically how it is still broken.

 

Two explanations:

• Bioware is stupid
  
• They are trying to revert initial double EXP gains without being transparent about it
  

 

well, that, or maybe you just are not understanding how it works...people using it while rested and then expecting it to be double that.

 

rested XP is equivalent to double XP so if you constantly run chars while rested, you will never see a difference between rested XP and double XP weekends other than on the quest rewards. The difference being that you don't burn through your rested XP very fast.

 

I think eric explained it quite correctly how the numbers work, I think its more just people not understanding that rested XP does not work with double XP.

[TheGreatFrosty]

http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php?page=3

 

Go to his post concerning XP gains.

 

It explained nothing? It provided categories of samples which were too few and flawed, as was stated by the many posts after. It never got another reply.

 

What was the purpose of pointing me there? :S

[TheGreatFrosty]

well, that, or maybe you just are not understanding how it works...people using it while rested and then expecting it to be double that.

 

rested XP is equivalent to double XP so if you constantly run chars while rested, you will never see a difference between rested XP and double XP weekends other than on the quest rewards. The difference being that you don't burn through your rested XP very fast.

 

I think eric explained it quite correctly how the numbers work, I think its more just people not understanding that rested XP does not work with double XP.

 

Go look at the original post advertising these weekends. If it no longer functions that way, or if they've decided to alter it, an explanation / clarification would be useful. However all their replies so far have suggested a lack of knowledge, rather than a reluctance to clarify.

Edited April 11, 2014 by TheGreatFrosty

[Darth_Wicked]

It explained nothing? It provided categories of samples which were too few and flawed, as was stated by the many posts after. It never got another reply.

 

What was the purpose of pointing me there? :S

 

There's no point at all I believe, other than an attempt to dismiss whatever critique really.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[wainot-keel]

http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php?page=3

 

Go to his post concerning XP gains.

 

uff.. as soon as i get to home i'll test those numbers, now they are too low imo. the ones musco previously posted were accurate for me (during the last double xp weekend)

 

according to these new numbers for lvl 50 an elite with double xp and rested xp would grant 2770. that's utter garbage. i remember getting like 3.5k for one elite on voss. this is all messed up

[Vandicus]

It explained nothing? It provided categories of samples which were too few and flawed, as was stated by the many posts after. It never got another reply.

 

What was the purpose of pointing me there? :S

 

Eric Musco's posts were accurate(only his original double XP post back from March to Makeb was missing information as it didn't mention subscriber bonus xp), but unfortunately many people don't understand how base experience worked(which is expounded upon later in the thread)

 

*EDIT

 

To illustrate, the main point brought up against Eric's numbers was the XP boost item(25%). People frequently claim that its actually 20%.

 

 

Since F2P is base.

Subscribers get a 25% bonus.

Another 25% means you operate at 1.5x normal.

 

Going from 1.25x to 1.5x looks like 1.5/1.25=1.2 to people, so subscribers using the experience boost items frequently conclude(erroneously) that the experience booster is only granting 20% extra experience.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[ikinai]

The only way to get good accurate data is to run the instance as F2P with no boosts and then do the same with the same level sub account with no boosts and record what the differences are.

[Vandicus]

uff.. as soon as i get to home i'll test those numbers, now they are too low imo. the ones musco previously posted were accurate for me (during the last double xp weekend)

 

according to these new numbers for lvl 50 an elite with double xp and rested xp would grant 2770. that's utter garbage. i remember getting like 3.5k for one elite on voss. this is all messed up

 

Not that I've ever experimented much with it, but I know experience from mobs at level 50 when it was the old cap, was significantly lower than mid-late game experience from mobs.

[DOHboy]

Go look at the original post advertising these weekends. If it no longer functions that way, or if they've decided to alter it, an explanation / clarification would be useful. However all their replies so far have suggested a lack of knowledge, rather than a reluctance to clarify.

 

not sure what needs "clarification"

 

i don't think it works any differently. The problem as I understand it. people go into KDY with fully rested XP and get XXX xp per mob.

 

go in during double XP weekend and see XXX xp rather than 2x(XXX) and people complain that double XP isnt working.

 

The explanation being that rested XP IS double XP If you run around with Green XP bars normally, you are ALREADY getting double XP and would expect half that normally. Which on a double XP weekend woudl be what you would normally see if you previously had a green bar.

 

If you run around with yellow xp bar normally, on double XP weekend you will see 2x the normal experience which would be equal to having rested XP the entire time.

 

Now this varies for those who are FTP or Subscription

[DawnAskham]

well, that, or maybe you just are not understanding how it works...people using it while rested and then expecting it to be double that.

 

rested XP is equivalent to double XP so if you constantly run chars while rested, you will never see a difference between rested XP and double XP weekends other than on the quest rewards. The difference being that you don't burn through your rested XP very fast.

 

I think eric explained it quite correctly how the numbers work, I think its more just people not understanding that rested XP does not work with double XP.

 

Please show me where they changed how it works from:

 

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Thanks for the segue! Let me blow your minds

 

My understanding of the system is that all of our boosts will multiply from the new base of 200%, so now is the perfect time to get those Legacy perks and XP boosts. I will show you why.

 

Let's say you planned to level during the March to Makeb entirely through... Flashpoints.

 

200% base experience

+25% Flashpoint Boost

+30% Flashpoint Legacy perk

 

*THIS BONUS DOES NOT STACK WITH RESTED EXPERIENCE

 

Since both of the boosts are being applied to double base XP, they are also doubled. Do you know what that means?!

 

+310% bonus experience! That is over triple the experience. Enjoying your leveling my friends!

 

TLDR, yes they stack and for the math nerds it is multiplicative on top of the new base of 200% (assuming I understood it all correctly)

 

-eric

 

Rested has always been a bonus on top of base XP, and all other buffs / boosts active while rested have always been applied against the same base.

 

Double XP was explained to be a doubling of the base, with all other buffs / boosts active during double XP applied against the doubled base (though no rested bonus), effectively doubling the benefit of all bonuses / buffs / boosts.

 

So according to Bioware's own explanations of how double XP works, a player with with all boosts running should see MORE XP during a double XP event than they would with all boosts running while rested.

[Vandicus]

Please show me where they changed how it works from:

 

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Thanks for the segue! Let me blow your minds

 

My understanding of the system is that all of our boosts will multiply from the new base of 200%, so now is the perfect time to get those Legacy perks and XP boosts. I will show you why.

 

Let's say you planned to level during the March to Makeb entirely through... Flashpoints.

 

200% base experience

+25% Flashpoint Boost

+30% Flashpoint Legacy perk

 

*THIS BONUS DOES NOT STACK WITH RESTED EXPERIENCE

 

Since both of the boosts are being applied to double base XP, they are also doubled. Do you know what that means?!

 

+310% bonus experience! That is over triple the experience. Enjoying your leveling my friends!

 

TLDR, yes they stack and for the math nerds it is multiplicative on top of the new base of 200% (assuming I understood it all correctly)

 

-eric

 

Rested has always been a bonus on top of base XP, and all other buffs / boosts active while rested have always been applied against the same base.

 

Double XP was explained to be a doubling of the base, with all other buffs / boosts active during double XP applied against the doubled base (though no rested bonus), effectively doubling the benefit of all bonuses / buffs / boosts.

 

So according to Bioware's own explanations of how double XP works, a player with with all boosts running should see MORE XP during a double XP event than they would with all boosts running while rested.

 

Yep, all boosts should be doubled in effectiveness. No one's shown anything indicating otherwise as of yet. BTW Eric's original post does not include the subscriber bonus.

 

*EDIT

 

Oh, btw, rested experience is not flat stacking, its multiplicative, at least on some boosts. I'll have to verify sometime whether its multiplicative on everything.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[TheGreatFrosty]

Eric Musco's posts were accurate(only his original double XP post back from March to Makeb was missing information as it didn't mention subscriber bonus xp), but unfortunately many people don't understand how base experience worked(which is expounded upon later in the thread)

 

*EDIT

 

To illustrate, the main point brought up against Eric's numbers was the XP boost item(25%). People frequently claim that its actually 20%.

 

 

Since F2P is base.

Subscribers get a 25% bonus.

Another 25% means you operate at 1.5x normal.

 

Going from 1.25x to 1.5x looks like 1.5/1.25=1.2 to people, so subscribers using the experience boost items frequently conclude(erroneously) that the experience booster is only granting 20% extra experience.

 

This seems wrong.

 

There is a 25% different in EXP between F2P and sub, not 50%. Whichever way you take it. If they are 75% then we're 100%, meaning there's a 50% different with this, then add the % differences from double bonus.

 

If you take it as 100% v 125%, same deal. It's a much greater different than you're suggesting - and more importantly, it isn't properly factoring in the boosts from either consumable or legacy.

 

Whichever way, it needs competent clarification from somebody (if that person exists) who actually understands it at Bioware.

[Przemo_No]

What a shame.

 

Geez, what's the problem? Any other FP or OP or Heroics gives the 2x, so go play those.

[Vandicus]

This seems wrong.

 

There is a 25% different in EXP between F2P and sub, not 50%. Whichever way you take it. If they are 75% then we're 100%, meaning there's a 50% different with this, then add the % differences from double bonus.

 

If you take it as 100% v 125%, same deal. It's a much greater different than you're suggesting - and more importantly, it isn't properly factoring in the boosts from either consumable or legacy.

 

Whichever way, it needs competent clarification from somebody (if that person exists) who actually understands it at Bioware.

 

There is a 25% difference between f2p and sub. But they are not at 75%, they are the base line. We get a 25% boost off of their base line.

 

So normal is

 

100% f2p

125% sub

Then when you add a 25% boost(from the cartel market item), you get 150%(since boosts are non-multiplicative as a rule of thumb).

 

To people who normally operate at 125%, 150% looks like a 20% boost over their normal experience(1.5/1.25=1.2)

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[wainot-keel]

Not that I've ever experimented much with it, but I know experience from mobs at level 50 when it was the old cap, was significantly lower than mid-late game experience from mobs.

 

I really don't remember xp gains back when the cap was lvl 50, though I do remember that killing elites (at your lvl) was much more rewarding than class quests for example. By far. And still is.

[Vandicus]

I really don't remember xp gains back when the cap was lvl 50, though I do remember that killing elites (at your lvl) was much more rewarding than class quests for example. By far. And still is.

 

I'm not quite sure how that's relevant. All I'm saying regarding diminishing mob experience, is that mobs gave less experience at level 50 than they did at 47, at launch. Unless they revised the formulas(which would actually be a reasonable thing to do), that's in keeping with how things were.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus

[ZionHalcyon]

Here's what I think is going on.

 

 

Given the discussion of double XP, and Musco's numbers being off, It wasn't a week after this was brought up that it was announced that there was ANOTHER Double XP weekend occuring in May.

 

While it would be nice if the devs were more communicative about why so soon, I also remember Eric hinting when Kuat was broken that they would repeat as necessary double XP until they got it right.

 

 

So my prevailing theory is that after Eric's last batch of numbers got roasted, he went to the team handling the XP fix, and whatever tweaks they needed to do, they didn't forsee getting accomplished before this weekend's batch of double XP. Therefore, they put in the new weekend in May to further test and try to get the numbers to what was advertised - and simply just didn't notify the community about it (yet).

 

That's my theory anyway.

[Vandicus]

Here's what I think is going on.

 

 

Given the discussion of double XP, and Musco's numbers being off, It wasn't a week after this was brought up that it was announced that there was ANOTHER Double XP weekend occuring in May.

 

 

The numbers in Musco's thread are correct mathematically. If they aren't matched in game, then we have a problem.

[DOHboy]

Please show me where they changed how it works from:

 

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Thanks for the segue! Let me blow your minds

 

My understanding of the system is that all of our boosts will multiply from the new base of 200%, so now is the perfect time to get those Legacy perks and XP boosts. I will show you why.

 

Let's say you planned to level during the March to Makeb entirely through... Flashpoints.

 

200% base experience

+25% Flashpoint Boost

+30% Flashpoint Legacy perk

 

*THIS BONUS DOES NOT STACK WITH RESTED EXPERIENCE

 

Since both of the boosts are being applied to double base XP, they are also doubled. Do you know what that means?!

 

+310% bonus experience! That is over triple the experience. Enjoying your leveling my friends!

 

TLDR, yes they stack and for the math nerds it is multiplicative on top of the new base of 200% (assuming I understood it all correctly)

 

-eric

 

Rested has always been a bonus on top of base XP, and all other buffs / boosts active while rested have always been applied against the same base.

 

Double XP was explained to be a doubling of the base, with all other buffs / boosts active during double XP applied against the doubled base (though no rested bonus), effectively doubling the benefit of all bonuses / buffs / boosts.

 

So according to Bioware's own explanations of how double XP works, a player with with all boosts running should see MORE XP during a double XP event than they would with all boosts running while rested.

 

Normal (non-green XP @ 100% so lets say its 100xp)

 

so that 100xp is what the baseline would be

now rested that XP is now 200 (2x 100)

rested plus a 25% boost is 225xp (2*100 + .25*100)

rested plus a 25% boost + 30% legacy + 10% guild = 265 (2*100 + .25* 100 + .3*100 + .1* 100)

 

non-rested xp with boost + legacy + guild = 165

 

Double XP weekend

with boost + legacy + 10% guild =

2(100 + 25 + 30 + 10) = 370 = 370% of normal XP

 

double XP weekend with no boost no guild and no legacy

= 2 * 100 = 200

 

so rested xp = double XP, double XP does not work with rested (just off the base)

Boosts and legacy and guilds work as an additive with rested, but with double xp weekends they are also doubled.

 

How is this any different than what they have said in the past?

or is math hard for me too?

[TheGreatFrosty]

There is a 25% difference between f2p and sub. But they are not at 75%, they are the base line. We get a 25% boost off of their base line.

 

So normal is

 

100% f2p

125% sub

Then when you add a 25% boost(from the cartel market item), you get 150%(since boosts are non-multiplicative as a rule of thumb).

To people who normally operate at 125%, 150% looks like a 20% boost over their normal experience(1.5/1.25=1.2)

 

Again, what?

 

What do you mean a rule of thumb? This is why the communication on these issues is so poor.

 

The only resource or evidence we have is what was originally stated prior to the first weekend. That said that these are, in fact, multiplicative (and obviously in ALL scenarios a major 25% will stack with say the 30% from flashpoints). I'm not talking about 25+25, I'm talking about 25+30 (legacy).

 

If we go off their base, then how do you come to 150% :S. If the base is 100%, then 200%... Surely?

[Vandicus]

Again, what?

 

What do you mean a rule of thumb? This is why the communication on these issues is so poor.

 

The only resource or evidence we have is what was originally stated prior to the first weekend. That said that these are, in fact, multiplicative (and obviously in ALL scenarios a major 25% will stack with say the 30% from flashpoints). I'm not talking about 25+25, I'm talking about 25+30 (legacy).

 

If we go off their base, then how do you come to 150% :S. If the base is 100%, then 200%... Surely?

 

I'm speaking about the base numbers for non-doubled experience.

 

What I mean by multiplicative(as opposed to flat-stacking), is when you multiply the bonuses.

 

Rested Experienced is multiplicative.

Double Experience is multiplicative.

Experience boosts(the CM items) are flat stacking.

Character Perks are flat stacking.

 

 

Multiplicative would look like this: 1.25*1.25=1.5625, for a subscriber using an experience boost during normal experience. This is NOT how character perks and experience boosts work. This is only how double xp and rested xp works.

 

Flat stacking(which is what all boosts except for rested and double xp use) looks like this: 1+.25+.25=1.5

 

*EDIT

 

I'm going to pull some numbers from Eric's thread, give me a couple minutes

 

 

 

Level 50

 

Normal(No Boost)

Standard - 152

Strong - 461

Elite - 1155

 

Normal(w/Boost)

Standard - 184

Strong - 553

Elite - 1407

 

Rested/Double XP(No Boost)

Standard - 305

Strong - 922

Elite - 2308

 

Rested/Double XP(w/Boost)

Standard - 366

Strong - 1105

Elite - 2770

 

 

So here we've got some experience numbers for levels 50 subscribers under certain circumstances. If these don't match what's in game, there's something wrong, but mathematically, its internally consistent.

 

The starting number is 152 for a normal mob. With a 25% boost item(without double experience), it goes to 184. 184/152 is not 1.25 *152, but around 1.2* 152. The reason for this is that 152 is not the base number.

 

Likewise for strong mobs, you'll see that 553/461 is also not 1.25*461.

 

That is because the base is f2p, so what you see instead looks like a 20% boost.

 

However, no matter what the baseline is, rested experience and double experience are multiplicative. They outright double the experience, including the multipliers.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Vandicus