What?!?! 14k Maul?

[Sosajoshua]

14k crit? Hmm probably could happen if your target has enough debuffs or something. On my shadow (lowbie) i can consecutively hit 8k with ShadowStrike so i see no reason why at 55 with min/max and gear you could hit for between 10-12k average and maybe crit for 14k

[sithBracer]

I got a 13k hit yesterday ... against a sorc of course and I am not even close to min/max (still have partisan/conqueror gear + PvE gear). Most likely this was a double relic proc.

[TACeMossie]

oh yes totally forgot alacrity!

 

Yes me either, I would take alacrity alqways because we still can't achieve 100% hit chance.

 

I'd stay away from alacrity till they fix it though. It screws with procs, cooldowns, and everything-in-general.

 

e.g. 6 second lockout on maul proc rng? With 0.1% alacrity and a stable connection, thats a 7.4925 second lockout on maul RNG. with the 1% from an enhancement or implant/earpiece, its a 7.4257 second lockout on maul proc RNG

 

Similarly, surging charge. Normally 4.5 second lockout, the 1% from the implant/earpiece/enhancement is now a 5.9406 second lockout.

 

See? Its screwing with your RNG!

 

Also, lets say its a choice between 1% accuracy, or 0.5% surge (cause im too lazy to hop on askmrrobot ). Accuracy only affects a few of your attacks, but then again surge requires a crit to do anything so if you do 5 attacks, 3 of them crit (recklessness), that 0.5% surge is gonna be a 0.3% damage increase. However, that 1% accuracy increase could very well win you the game. You need a maximum of 30% of your damage to come from melee sources for accuracy to be worse than surge for the opening burst. And even then, throw in another 5 attacks, and its probably gonna drop down to 0.25% damage increase from surge, which is 25% of your damage from melee sources. And the longer this goes on, the less the burst of surge at the start is worth. See whats happening here?

 

Now if this was for a sorc or an AP Powertech, i'd agree with you. Both of these pretty much ignore melee/ranged attack options (well rail shot, but thats 13% of the damage and it auto-crits so the surge is completely useful). But its not. So we can leave the argument.

 

BTW you cant hit 100% accuracy and have 75% surge until dread masters gear

[IInox]

I'd stay away from alacrity till they fix it though. It screws with procs, cooldowns, and everything-in-general.

 

e.g. 6 second lockout on maul proc rng? With 0.1% alacrity and a stable connection, thats a 7.4925 second lockout on maul RNG. with the 1% from an enhancement or implant/earpiece, its a 7.4257 second lockout on maul proc RNG

 

Similarly, surging charge. Normally 4.5 second lockout, the 1% from the implant/earpiece/enhancement is now a 5.9406 second lockout.

 

See? Its screwing with your RNG!

 

Also, lets say its a choice between 1% accuracy, or 0.5% surge (cause im too lazy to hop on askmrrobot ). Accuracy only affects a few of your attacks, but then again surge requires a crit to do anything so if you do 5 attacks, 3 of them crit (recklessness), that 0.5% surge is gonna be a 0.3% damage increase. However, that 1% accuracy increase could very well win you the game. You need a maximum of 30% of your damage to come from melee sources for accuracy to be worse than surge for the opening burst. And even then, throw in another 5 attacks, and its probably gonna drop down to 0.25% damage increase from surge, which is 25% of your damage from melee sources. And the longer this goes on, the less the burst of surge at the start is worth. See whats happening here?

 

Now if this was for a sorc or an AP Powertech, i'd agree with you. Both of these pretty much ignore melee/ranged attack options (well rail shot, but thats 13% of the damage and it auto-crits so the surge is completely useful). But its not. So we can leave the argument.

 

BTW you cant hit 100% accuracy and have 75% surge until dread masters gear

 

there is a problem. you can't really use this logic in pvp. Still, I don't use accuracy.

Edited April 13, 2014 by IInox

[DarkSyn]

for pvp wouldnt it be good to stack some alacrity over accuracy, doesnt it also effect your Global Cooldowns? so it thts the case wouldnt it be better to get your melee attacks off faster?

[Xinika]

for pvp wouldnt it be good to stack some alacrity over accuracy, doesnt it also effect your Global Cooldowns? so it thts the case wouldnt it be better to get your melee attacks off faster?

No. Alacrity is plain useless. Accuracy affects your white hits which are subject to misses which may in turn cost you.

[Evolixe]

No. Alacrity is plain useless. Accuracy affects your white hits which are subject to misses which may in turn cost you.

 

And they might as well still miss at crucial moments untill you cap it. Hence it's kinda pointless.

 

I'd stay away from alacrity till they fix it though. It screws with procs, cooldowns, and everything-in-general.

 

e.g. 6 second lockout on maul proc rng? With 0.1% alacrity and a stable connection, thats a 7.4925 second lockout on maul RNG. with the 1% from an enhancement or implant/earpiece, its a 7.4257 second lockout on maul proc RNG

 

Similarly, surging charge. Normally 4.5 second lockout, the 1% from the implant/earpiece/enhancement is now a 5.9406 second lockout.

 

See? Its screwing with your RNG!

 

Also, lets say its a choice between 1% accuracy, or 0.5% surge (cause im too lazy to hop on askmrrobot ). Accuracy only affects a few of your attacks, but then again surge requires a crit to do anything so if you do 5 attacks, 3 of them crit (recklessness), that 0.5% surge is gonna be a 0.3% damage increase. However, that 1% accuracy increase could very well win you the game. You need a maximum of 30% of your damage to come from melee sources for accuracy to be worse than surge for the opening burst. And even then, throw in another 5 attacks, and its probably gonna drop down to 0.25% damage increase from surge, which is 25% of your damage from melee sources. And the longer this goes on, the less the burst of surge at the start is worth. See whats happening here?

 

Now if this was for a sorc or an AP Powertech, i'd agree with you. Both of these pretty much ignore melee/ranged attack options (well rail shot, but thats 13% of the damage and it auto-crits so the surge is completely useful). But its not. So we can leave the argument.

 

BTW you cant hit 100% accuracy and have 75% surge until dread masters gear

 

This is news to me, do you have a source or some sort of proof to back up your claim?

I'm genuinely interested.

 

And I know, right now I have 74.84% surge with full BiS 78. I was just making a point.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Evolixe

[Xinika]

And they might as well still miss at crucial moments untill you cap it. Hence it's kinda pointless..

It's a noticeable difference quite frankly.

[IInox]

but you can still miss. asd.

 

btw yes this bug on alacrity i didin't know it. more infos pls!

 

And btw about accuracy it depends even which build are you using.

[TACeMossie]

but you can still miss. asd.

 

btw yes this bug on alacrity i didin't know it. more infos pls!

 

And btw about accuracy it depends even which build are you using.

 

I had a long post typed out and my browser closed itself -_-

 

So ill do the TLDR

 

Go to a class with a lockout on a 100% proc e.g. lightning sorc, concealment op, arsenal merc

If they have an alacrity boost its easier (which they all do. Yay!)

Find the perfect alacrity values (5% for sorc/operative, 12.5% for merc) BTW at 20% alacrity 8GCDs = 10 seconds so with a sorc you just have to get some crappy gear and stuff it with quick savant enhancements till you get between 5% and 20%. Make it bigger than this. Bigger is better cause it fights lag better. Could also use healer gear if you want

Go to the dummy

Hammer away at it with the attack that procs the proc (or auto attack)

 

Operative would open with acid blade hidden strike, then lacerate, then 6 GCDs of filler making sure you have a tactical advantage at the end and a poison effect on the target

Merc is spam tracer Missile with an unload after the first one. Normally procs 6 GCDs (5 attacks) apart but with 13+% alacrity you need a 7th.

Sorc is normally 7GCDs of Lightning strike but >5% alacrity adds an 8th, >20% adds a 9th, ect...

Edited April 13, 2014 by TACeMossie

[IInox]

uhm weird KBN didin't see this bug on combat sentinel where zen gives -0.5c GCD

 

well obv i was talking with a no bugged alacrity before. have u never tryed to make a 3d about that to allow dev to know this bug?

[TACeMossie]

uhm weird KBN didin't see this bug on combat sentinel where zen gives -0.5c GCD

 

well obv i was talking with a no bugged alacrity before. have u never tryed to make a 3d about that to allow dev to know this bug?

 

It was pointed out in the PT questions in regard to Ionic Accelerator. For now, they just said they were getting rid of the default alacrity for pyro, instead of reducing the lockout on ionic accelerator like we wanted -_-

 

Also 30% alacrity from zen gets the 18th cooldown to be 20.769 seconds, well within the 20-21 second window for precision slash.Granted thats wrong because it only affects 6 attacks, but move to 1 zen per PS window and its 15 attacks in 20.423 seconds - within the 20-21 seconds for optimal Hand of Justice procs

 

Why am I saying 20-21 second lockout? Because the lockout is 20 seconds, but at 0% alacrity the shortest time between lockouts is 21 seconds cause of the 1.5 sec GCD.

Edited April 14, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Aetrus]

That is too much crit. 25% crit for Arenas, 21-23% for solo play. Rest in power and surge.

 

Tell me you don't run the 2.0 Wakajinn hybrid in arenas over full Deception. I see you running it a lot in your vids but those are mostly regs.

[Xinika]

Tell me you don't run the 2.0 Wakajinn hybrid in arenas over full Deception. I see you running it a lot in your vids but those are mostly regs.

I run Darkness Hybrid and full Deception.

[Evolixe]

Tell me you don't run the 2.0 Wakajinn hybrid in arenas over full Deception. I see you running it a lot in your vids but those are mostly regs.

 

You mean Death Field hybrid? Yes I am. It's far more potent than full Dec imo.

[MidichIorian]

Some ******e PT-sin combo killed my "almost full brutalizer" sage in one GDC + some medium ranged attack by the PT as I was running away, only had an ounce HP at that point though. Unfortunately I had just wiped my PC and forgot to put on combat logging so I couldnt tell exactly what had been going on but it was pretty crazy. I think it's a bit over the top that someone should be able to hit that hard on the highest armor rating. Take into account all the people who run around with 25-30K in lower armor ratings and it becomes even more ridiculous.

 

I do think there's more to it than just the white balance fix though because my own FiBs can, under some circumstances hit for noticeably more than they used to and I do not have that much more bonus damage than I had pre-2.7. It feels like bonus damage, in the character screen, went up 2,7 % but the actual damage output on certain attacks by 15 %.

Edited April 17, 2014 by MidichIorian

[Aetrus]

I run Darkness Hybrid and full Deception.

Excellent. <3

You mean Death Field hybrid? Yes I am. It's far more potent than full Dec imo.

It puts up higher numbers, but it's less kill pressure. It's like...the difference between the 0/30/16 Sorc hybrid and full Lightning back when rateds 8s existed. I wanted to like the Death Field hybrid (it will always be Wakajinn to me) but I feel like without Recklessness it does crap for burst damage. And in group arenas (solos are a different animal) you're not really out of combat enough for Recklessness resets.

 

AoE internal damage is good but...but...dat full Deception burst.

[Evolixe]

It puts up higher numbers, but it's less kill pressure. It's like...the difference between the 0/30/16 Sorc hybrid and full Lightning back when rateds 8s existed. I wanted to like the Death Field hybrid (it will always be Wakajinn to me) but I feel like without Recklessness it does crap for burst damage. And in group arenas (solos are a different animal) you're not really out of combat enough for Recklessness resets.

 

AoE internal damage is good but...but...dat full Deception burst.

 

Less kill pressure? You sir, are confused.

 

With DF hybrid, I put out far more kill pressure on their healer than I ever could as full Dec.

 

I've done 1800 dps in full matches as 31/15.

[TACeMossie]

Some ******e PT-sin combo killed my "almost full brutalizer" sage in one GDC + some medium ranged attack by the PT as I was running away, only had an ounce HP at that point though. Unfortunately I had just wiped my PC and forgot to put on combat logging so I couldnt tell exactly what had been going on but it was pretty crazy. I think it's a bit over the top that someone should be able to hit that hard on the highest armor rating. Take into account all the people who run around with 25-30K in lower armor ratings and it becomes even more ridiculous.

 

I do think there's more to it than just the white balance fix though because my own FiBs can, under some circumstances hit for noticeably more than they used to and I do not have that much more bonus damage than I had pre-2.7. It feels like bonus damage, in the character screen, went up 2,7 % but the actual damage output on certain attacks by 15 %.

 

Probably Rail Shot, combined with a low slash-boosted maul and a thermal detonator explosion. Just needs some kind of DoT to use it.

Edited April 17, 2014 by TACeMossie

[EatenByDistance]

I wanted to like the Death Field hybrid (it will always be Wakajinn to me)

 

thx man rock on

 

I still don't think Wakajinn 2.0 is very good but I sometimes enjoy playing the revamped Mad Maul hybrid I posted about awhile ago: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=703269

 

If I'm DPSing in arenas I still prefer full Deception for both Solo and Group play. For Solo the burst punishes stupid (read: most) people for making mistakes and the ability to stealth out and get Recklessness back makes switches and the need for immediate, controlled burst in Group play makes Deception more appealing than hybrid.

 

btw ya I still play

 

p.s. white damage op now

 

p.p.s. mad maul/wakajinn2.5 hybrid i linked could run the recklessness reset, would lower sustained deeps but be better for switches. something to consider. might be quite good :]

Edited April 23, 2014 by EatenByDistance

[IInox]

thx man rock on

 

I still don't think Wakajinn 2.0 is very good but I sometimes enjoy playing the revamped Mad Maul hybrid I posted about awhile ago: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=703269

 

If I'm DPSing in arenas I still prefer full Deception for both Solo and Group play. For Solo the burst punishes stupid (read: most) people for making mistakes and the ability to stealth out and get Recklessness back makes switches and the need for immediate, controlled burst in Group play makes Deception more appealing than hybrid.

 

btw ya I still play

 

p.s. white damage op now

 

p.p.s. mad maul/wakajinn2.5 hybrid i linked could run the recklessness reset, would lower sustained deeps but be better for switches. something to consider. might be quite good :]

 

I play your build too sometimes just to change gameplay! is fun!

 

btw i don't see so much difference on white damage..i'm feeling at same lvl of pre 2.7 tbh

[Xinika]

Has anyone actually ran full Madness against Deception Assassins? I find it easy to kite them and even win 1v1s

[AGSThomas]

Has anyone actually ran full Madness against Deception Assassins? I find it easy to kite them and even win 1v1s

 

I haven't played AS madness but I've played as against a few of them as Deception. I've noticed the bad ones run around helter skelter, but the good ones use force slow, LS, and creeping terror to keep you at 10m and not just casting them whenever. I don't seem to have a problem with them unless they get off a crushing darkness.

[Aetrus]

Currently in the process of hoarding reg comms so I can buy a few Obroan crit pieces (Implants, Ear) so I'll at least hit over 23% crit, see how that feels.

 

If I'm DPSing in arenas I still prefer full Deception for both Solo and Group play. For Solo the burst punishes stupid (read: most) people for making mistakes and the ability to stealth out and get Recklessness back makes switches and the need for immediate, controlled burst in Group play makes Deception more appealing than hybrid.

 

btw ya I still play

 

p.s. white damage op now

 

When I see you stream its of LoL. And yeah, white damage so good. 5k Massacres every game on my Mara with 69% Surge (I'm running Carnage with a very specific and probably inferior setup, but it gets results). 10k Mauls every single game on my Sin. Crazy stuff.

 

And I haven't played Madness since like 2.2 or 2.3, but I really don't find them to be difficult when I play Deception barring they don't get the drop on me first. If they do that it can be really hard to close the distance. I like to save my Shroud for their first Creeping Terror usually and try to close and blow them up from there. Haven't played against many good ones. And I've never actually dueled a Madness Sin on my Deception Sin (I have on my Leth sniper, and it was hilariously one-sided in my favor on multiple occasions.)

[Xinika]

I haven't played AS madness but I've played as against a few of them as Deception. I've noticed the bad ones run around helter skelter, but the good ones use force slow, LS, and creeping terror to keep you at 10m and not just casting them whenever. I don't seem to have a problem with them unless they get off a crushing darkness.

Problem is there aren't many good Madness Assassins. With a set Phase Walk, kiting a Deception Assassin is actually... easy.