Kaggath Tournament Finals - Droid Supremacy vs Dark Imperium

[Canino]

Well, I doubt the assassins will be on the front lines. In fact I expect Traya will dispatch them to Nar Shaddaa and Balmorra covertly and have them systematically exposed all of G0-T0s hideouts. In that environment I doubt the droids will be of much difficulty. I mean they have sticks, and they know how to swing em. They can adapt to fight small groups.

 

You have a point though, they are at a disadvantage in this respect, and great to see you back!

 

But can they really adapt? They are a select group that was tortured and forced to train to kill Jedi. That's it. And, with their force capabilities at amount a zero (cuz droids) I'm not convinced.

 

I don't doubt that they can beat some B1's but once they run into anything else, they die. They can use the shadows all they want, but when they come face to face with a droideka (something that doesn't even see using light) they are done for.

 

And thank you.

[Aurbere]

Sith Assassins do grow more powerful around other Force users, but does not make them useless against other opponents. They are assassins. They kill people. They have weapons, and the training to use them.

 

Edit: Welcome back, Canino!

Edited May 6, 2014 by Aurbere

[marcelo_sdk]

Honestly, I think you are giving too much credit to GO-TO. After all, he's a droid, survival isn't his primary goal, it's not his instinct. If neccessary, he'll expose himself, it's unlikely that, if everything is lost, he'll hide and run for his life.

 

Regarding Traya, if the DS was able to assassinate Malgus on Dromund Kaas, Traya in Malachor V won't be a great problem.

[Beniboybling]

Honestly, I think you are giving too much credit to GO-TO. After all, he's a droid, survival isn't his primary goal, it's not his instinct. If neccessary, he'll expose himself, it's unlikely that, if everything is lost, he'll hide and run for his life.

 

Regarding Traya, if the DS was able to assassinate Malgus on Dromund Kaas, Traya in Malachor V won't be a great problem.

That's not necessarily the point here, its a case of making him difficult to find so his forces can take down Traya without her assassins eliminating him in the process. He'll just be laying low.

 

P.S. I assume G0-T0 has self-preservation programming, so survival is one of his primary goals.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

That's not necessarily the point here, its a case of making him difficult to find so his forces can take down Traya without her assassins eliminating him in the process. He'll just be laying low.

 

P.S. I assume G0-T0 has self-preservation programming, so survival is one of his primary goals.

 

The Assassins would play a minimal combat role here.

 

They were used as infiltrators on a broader scale than combat, they frequented Nar Shadaa looking for information and bounty hunters.

 

Here, in This Kaggath, Traya will give the information to Maul about G0-T0 being a droid, and not actually a crime lord.

 

Maul will send the word out on the Holo's of Nar Shadaa, and all other planets, basically calling anyone who follows a droid pathetic, and without honor. He'll say that G0-T0 is looking to create the perfect Republic, as that is his primary programming, and that any Criminal who works for the DI will be given full pardons and a place in the new Exchange.

 

The Assassins flock to Nar Shadaa, creating contacts.

 

People loyal to the DI work their way into G0-T0's infrastructure as double agents, and expose him from within.

 

[Selenial]

Honestly, I think you are giving too much credit to GO-TO. After all, he's a droid, survival isn't his primary goal, it's not his instinct. If neccessary, he'll expose himself, it's unlikely that, if everything is lost, he'll hide and run for his life.

 

Regarding Traya, if the DS was able to assassinate Malgus on Dromund Kaas, Traya in Malachor V won't be a great problem.

 

Dromund Kaas is a Mass-Invadable planet.

Malgus is a brute tank.

 

Traya can make herself Invisible, and Malachor is almost impossible to pilot.

[Beniboybling]

Maul will send the word out on the Holo's of Nar Shadaa, and all other planets, basically calling anyone who follows a droid pathetic, and without honor. He'll say that G0-T0 is looking to create the perfect Republic, as that is his primary programming, and that any Criminal who works for the DI will be given full pardons and a place in the new Exchange.

 

The Assassins flock to Nar Shadaa, creating contacts.

 

People loyal to the DI work their way into G0-T0's infrastructure as double agents, and expose him from within.

Broadcasting messages over the HoloNet on such a scale is not exactly as easy as you make it sound. I don't think Traya has the capabilities to do this. I'm also not sure anyone would be taken in by enemy propaganda without proof.

 

Sure this information could be leaked and picked up, but with contacts and surveillance on Nar Shaddaa and the intelligence hub on Bothawui to tap into I expect that G0-T0 would quickly locate and destroy this information.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

Broadcasting messages over the HoloNet on such a scale is not exactly as easy as you make it sound. I don't think Traya has the capabilities to do this. I'm also not sure anyone would be taken in by enemy propaganda without proof.

 

Sure this information could be leaked and picked up, but with contacts and surveillance on Nar Shaddaa and the intelligence hub on Bothawui to tap into I expect that G0-T0 would quickly locate and destroy this information.

 

Public messages over the holonet are easy to execute if you have a fleet in orbit.

 

Hell, we saw Darth Thanaton do it from the bridge of a Harrower, and supposedly sent it to the entire empire.

 

And how are you dealing with this proof btw? All the proof is there, in republic banks, Telos datafiles, etc. How does this count to the Kaggath?

 

If nothing else, it would make people want G0-T0 to reveal himself, and when he can't....

[Beniboybling]

Public messages over the holonet are easy to execute if you have a fleet in orbit.

 

Hell, we saw Darth Thanaton do it from the bridge of a Harrower, and supposedly sent it to the entire empire.

 

And how are you dealing with this proof btw? All the proof is there, in republic banks, Telos datafiles, etc. How does this count to the Kaggath?

 

If nothing else, it would make people want G0-T0 to reveal himself, and when he can't....

I suppose, but that would involve getting a fleet in orbit.

 

In regards to proof, I'm not convinced Traya can get her hands on any. G0-T0 would have covered his tracks well.

[Selenial]

I suppose, but that would involve getting a fleet in orbit.

 

In regards to proof, I'm not convinced Traya can get her hands on any. G0-T0 would have covered his tracks well.

 

He couldn't cover his tracks though, at all.

 

Does it not help that the Republic OPENLY BROADCAST the defeats of all 16 of Go-to's cousins? (Other droids, same defect, went rogue and created new factions) openly stating them as droids and trying to gain good publicity for dispatching them?

[Beniboybling]

He couldn't cover his tracks though, at all.

 

Does it not help that the Republic OPENLY BROADCAST the defeats of all 16 of Go-to's cousins? (Other droids, same defect, went rogue and created new factions) openly stating them as droids and trying to gain good publicity for dispatching them?

In terms of knowledge of G0-T0 droids yes, but not proof G0-T0 is a droid.

[Canino]

The Assassins would play a minimal combat role here.

 

They were used as infiltrators on a broader scale than combat, they frequented Nar Shadaa looking for information and bounty hunters.

 

Here, in This Kaggath, Traya will give the information to Maul about G0-T0 being a droid, and not actually a crime lord.

 

Maul will send the word out on the Holo's of Nar Shadaa, and all other planets, basically calling anyone who follows a droid pathetic, and without honor. He'll say that G0-T0 is looking to create the perfect Republic, as that is his primary programming, and that any Criminal who works for the DI will be given full pardons and a place in the new Exchange.

 

The Assassins flock to Nar Shadaa, creating contacts.

 

People loyal to the DI work their way into G0-T0's infrastructure as double agents, and expose him from within.

 

 

Two things.

 

Firstly, if the assassins aren't going to play a combat role, then any, and I mean any, engagement will be a loss for the DI. 10,000 troops (the last squad was killed by one man) will fall astronomically quickly, when faced with the DS. You simply don't have the numbers to pull something like that. And that's something Trench will know. If Traya tries to only use the assassins as infiltration, Trench will disagree, and likely order them otherwise.

 

I also don't think stealth quite as effective as you think it is. Don't forget, the stealth used by your 10,000 troops is only hiding from light. And droidekas see through radiation sensors, not light sensors.

 

Secondly, how does Traya know of G0-T0 primary function? I don't recall him ever revealing that to her, or while she was in his company. And you can try using honor to lure out criminals, but I doubt it will work

 

Oh, and I almost forgot. You may want to make sure the kill switch in all your Shadow troopers stays hidden knowledge from G0-T0. What? Meltmassif was put into all of them by Blackhole, in case he ever needed to dispose of them. And according to R2, they are quite electromagnetic...

 

EDIT: Marcelo!! Welcome back!! :D

Edited May 6, 2014 by Canino

[Selenial]

Two things.

 

Firstly, if the assassins aren't going to play a combat role, then any, and I mean any, engagement will be a loss for the DI. 10,000 troops (the last squad was killed by one man) will fall astronomically quickly, when faced with the DS. You simply don't have the numbers to pull something like that. And that's something Trench will know. If Traya tries to only use the assassins as infiltration, Trench will disagree, and likely order them otherwise.

 

I also don't think stealth quite as effective as you think it is. Don't forget, the stealth used by your 10,000 troops is only hiding from light. And droidekas see through radiation sensors, not light sensors.

 

Secondly, how does Traya know of G0-T0 primary function? I don't recall him ever revealing that to her, or while she was in his company. And you can try using honor to lure out criminals, but I doubt it will work

 

Oh, and I almost forgot. You may want to make sure the kill switch in all your Shadow troopers stays hidden knowledge from G0-T0. What? Meltmassif was put into all of them by Blackhole, in case he ever needed to dispose of them. And according to R2, they are quite electromagnetic...

 

EDIT: Marcelo!! Welcome back!! :D

 

I lol'd

Not even Guri, HK, and Proxy together would equal Carnor Jax.

Don't make me laugh.

You won't like me when i'm laughing.

 

 

And why? Warren can't win space battles, I have no need of facing against Large armies, only tiny ones.

 

She knew everything that happened on the Ebon hawk. In TSLRCM, Surik has an option of revealing this to Traya and saying they could rid of G0-T0 now he's no longer a threat (remember why he was there in the first place) to which Traya reveals he is an asset, not even flinching at the revelation.

 

She saw Everything that happened on that ship, she knew if the Exile had been sparring with Visas, talking to Visas, Playing pazaak with Atton, befriending Mira... She brought them all up.

 

Droidekas also are expensive, very easy to sneak past due to their stature. And of course... droids. With minimal intelligence.

 

And no way in hell would G0-T0 ever, EVER, find out about that. Literally not in a million years.

 

Also, who said anything about Honor. Maul was feared in the underworld, and anyone following G0-T0 would be humiliated. Fear and Humiliation.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Selenial]

In terms of knowledge of G0-T0 droids yes, but not proof G0-T0 is a droid.

 

The G0-T0 series...

G0-T0 name.

 

The fact that the republic made G0-T0's death as public as the rest.

 

Call it what you want, there's proof.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I lol'd

Not even Guri, HK, and Proxy together would equal Carnor Jax.

Don't make me laugh.

You won't like me when i'm laughing.

 

Actually they would exceed Jax.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Canino]

I lol'd

Not even Guri, HK, and Proxy together would equal Carnor Jax.

Don't make me laugh.

You won't like me when i'm laughing.

 

 

And why? Warren can't win space battles, I have no need of facing against Large armies, only tiny ones.

 

She knew everything that happened on the Ebon hawk. In TSLRCM, Surik has an option of revealing this to Traya and saying they could rid of G0-T0 now he's no longer a threat (remember why he was there in the first place) to which Traya reveals he is an asset, not even flinching at the revelation.

 

She saw Everything that happened on that ship, she knew if the Exile had been sparring with Visas, talking to Visas, Playing pazaak with Atton, befriending Mira... She brought them all up.

 

Droidekas also are expensive, very easy to sneak past due to their stature. And of course... droids. With minimal intelligence.

 

And no way in hell would G0-T0 ever, EVER, find out about that. Literally not in a million years.

 

Also, who said anything about Honor. Maul was feared in the underworld, and anyone following G0-T0 would be humiliated. Fear and Humiliation.

 

1) It was Kir Kanos. At least be correct if you want to joke/insult me.

2)I can imagine that once Trench is assassinated, space superiority will go to the DS. Besides, the longer you wait, the better the DS becomes.

3)She knew everything that happened to organics. Give me one example of her knowing, before hand, something about the droids. And is every option from the game (hell, things from the unpublished part of the game) cannon now? I doubt it.

4)They may be droids, but they would literally see them. Perfectly. And since no one has ever seen them in stealth before, I doubt they would know what was happening when the droids open fire on them.

5) Really? It seems R2 recognized them to be quite (more like extremely) electromagnetic. That means they are sending out a signal. A signal that could be traced, or found, whether on purpose or by accident.

6) Umm, you did?...

Maul will send the word out on the Holo's of Nar Shadaa, and all other planets, basically calling anyone who follows a droid pathetic, and without honor. He'll say that G0-T0 is looking to create the perfect Republic, as that is his primary programming, and that any Criminal who works for the DI will be given full pardons and a place in the new Exchange.

 

I'm leaving my house now, going to a baseball game. I'll be back, possibly tomorrow (?). Only reason I don't know is because its my b-day, so I have plans.

[Selenial]

Actually they would exceed Jax.

 

In one to one combat, perhaps.

 

Not in the art of taking down shadow Troopers.

 

He knew them inside out, knew their training etc, He's better.

 

But yeh... Kanos

Edited May 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Wolfninjajedi]

In one to one combat, perhaps.

 

Not in the art of taking down shadow Troopers.

 

He knew them inside out, knew their training etc, He's better.

 

It was Kanos that took down the Shadow Troopers, he himself was just a regular Stormtrooper before becoming a Guardsmen so he wouldn't know about the Shadow Troopers training and so forth, he was superior to them still.

 

Guri and PROXY have both superhuman reflexes, speed and strength/durability(Guri, not sure about PROXY). Guri alone would be able to mop the floor with a Shadow Trooper squad if a peak human can do it. PROXY the same way, HK...depends.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

1) It was Kir Kanos. At least be correct if you want to joke/insult me.

2)I can imagine that once Trench is assassinated, space superiority will go to the DS. Besides, the longer you wait, the better the DS becomes.

3)She knew everything that happened to organics. Give me one example of her knowing, before hand, something about the droids. And is every option from the game (hell, things from the unpublished part of the game) cannon now? I doubt it.

4)They may be droids, but they would literally see them. Perfectly. And since no one has ever seen them in stealth before, I doubt they would know what was happening when the droids open fire on them.

5) Really? It seems R2 recognized them to be quite (more like extremely) electromagnetic. That means they are sending out a signal. A signal that could be traced, or found, whether on purpose or by accident.

6) Umm, you did?...

 

I'm leaving my house now, going to a baseball game. I'll be back, possibly tomorrow (?). Only reason I don't know is because its my b-day, so I have plans.

 

1) Wasn't a joke/insult. It's fact. I admit, I got the names wrong, but it still makes sense, Jax couldn't even do what Kanos did, he said so himself, and none of them would equal Jax.

2) Good luck with that. He's survived the explosions of 2 separate Dreadnoughts. The guy's tough to kill. If you could come up with some feasonable assassination attempts, then go for it. I've yet to see any. Especially about how on earth you'd find him in the first place.

3) What's canon and what's not? We're not to decide.

Well, she knew T3 played a recording of Bastilla shan. Beyond that, nothing really happened with the droids. If you won't accept that, then think about how the Exile heard machines during her meditation with Kreia. That should be proof enough. If not that, then the fact that G0-T0 cant whisper, and was a solid 4m away from Traya when he spoke of this

4) Well, I've yet to see any proof that the stealth belts don't sort this sort of thing. They snuck past plenty of droids during the OR period. Besides, can't stick Droidekas everywhere.

5) I don't know the source, I wouldn't know. Source it and I'll look into it. However, R2 isn't exactly the standard for droids.

Beni, you say people remember Past Kaggaths, does Traya remember Cronal? If she does, then this is easily avoided.

6) That doesn't say they're honor bound. It's about how every insult in the book'll get tossed at them for following a pathetic banking droid that wants galactic peace.

Hell, even HK-01 could possibly defect at this thought, but I'll get to that later.

[Selenial]

It was Kanos that took down the Shadow Troopers, he himself was just a regular Stormtrooper before becoming a Guardsmen so he wouldn't know about the Shadow Troopers training and so forth, he was superior to them still.

 

Guri and PROXY have both superhuman reflexes, speed and strength/durability(Guri, not sure about PROXY). Guri alone would be able to mop the floor with a Shadow Trooper squad if a peak human can do it. PROXY the same way, HK...depends.

 

Taking Squads wasn't her style.

 

Especially not stealth squads.

 

She went one on one whenever possible because a lucky shot would kill her, lucky explosion would kill her, lucky ambush from stealth would too.

 

But Kanos knew all their manoeuvres and was able to exploit them.

 

I also struggle to see why this was brought up, Guri won't be facing squads. She'll be facing armies.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Selenial

[Wolfninjajedi]

Taking Squads wasn't her style.

 

Especially not stealth squads.

 

She went one on one whenever possible because a lucky shot would kill her, lucky explosion would kill her, lucky ambush from stealth would too.

 

But Kanos knew all their manoeuvres and was able to exploit them.

 

I also struggle to see why this was brought up, Guri won't be facing squads. She'll be facing armies.

 

Well Canino brought up the squad thing. Also one on one only huh?....Right she has taken on multiple opponents before, the only time she ever went one on one was against Luke Skywalker.

 

At any rate, was just clearing up that one little bit about Jax/Kanos/whatever.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

Well Canino brought up the squad thing. Also one on one only huh?....Right she has taken on multiple opponents before, the only time she ever went one on one was against Luke Skywalker.

 

At any rate, was just clearing up that one little bit about Jax/Kanos/whatever.

 

Yeh, but she picked people off.

 

She didn't go full on firefight rage mode, from memory. She's an assassin.

 

She can't really do that against stealthed targets....

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yeh, but she picked people off.

 

She didn't go full on firefight rage mode, from memory. She's an assassin.

 

She can't really do that against stealthed targets....

 

She has been in firefights before.

 

Also in regards to Shadow Stormtroopers being able to cloak....what exactly is the source for that? Because there is no source showing for them noting to have cloaking devices on their armor, it would have helped in some instances when they were sent.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

The G0-T0 series...

G0-T0 name.

 

The fact that the republic made G0-T0's death as public as the rest.

 

Call it what you want, there's proof.

I'm not sure I follow...

 

Pretty sure nobody knew about G0-T0 being destroyed on Malachor V.

[Selenial]

I'm not sure I follow...

 

Pretty sure nobody knew about G0-T0 being destroyed on Malachor V.

 

The republic knew about each rogue Droid.

 

Didnt have the resources to take them down.

 

The Exile's companions assumed he'd died in the crash. The republic also Destroyed and publicized "all rogue G0-T0 units" death.