Why Raise the Level Cap Again?

[kasanth]

I think what a lot of you are missing is that bumping the level cap is a necessary evil.

 

yes, yes. I get the whole "horizontal progression" thing. And yes, there are some great things about horizontal progression. I think a lot of you have already named most of them. The problem is, however, that horizontal progression doesn't solve the longetivity problem.

 

If you don't periodically raise the generic "power" of a player in a game such as this, the natural human tendency is see the game as no longer expanding. Sure, you can add tons of news gear sets or create new worlds but eventually level capping (and the math behind it) start to cap your character. They can't just release NEW, more powerful armor sets either because then someone at fresh 55 is so far behind the curve they might as well be level 54...and stuck there.

 

In progression games such as this you can only get 3 to 4 effective gear levels into progression before a fresh level cap player is simply too far behind. Imagine being a fresh 55 level player and being 7 or 8 gear levels behind the "max" gear level. It would simply be too staggering and a person would stop playing. It would really hurt alts and anyone who wanted to get a new character to max gear level would be stuck as a fresh 55. Most likely the content that a fresh 55 would do would be abandoned so gearing up would be even harder.

 

You might say, "ok, make basic comms always good for the 3rd to max gear level". Well that starts to look really bad when you have green level 55 gear and suddenly basic comms buy gear that is basically double your effective power level. The gear jump would be absurd.

 

By raising the level cap, the developers have a chance to "reset the game." It's almost a new start for everyone. Now the journey for a new player (and old players) is level 60 (for example). Now when you hit 60 you aren't massive levels behind the power curve.

 

Now I do agree there are some issues. Power creep is a huge issue. I hope bioware has a plan to handle it. Old content does become obsolete. It would be great so have a "classic" mode of operations where you are de-leveled so old content is still fun and challenging.

 

 

 

Exactly one of my points. Once people move on to gear lvl 5 content. Gear lvl 1-4 content will still be abandoned

by those people. Anyone not staying with the current gear lvl content, will be to far behind with no one to run

the older content with..

 

Everquest Online Adventures had that problem when they no longer raised the lvl cap. Once a guild finished a lvl of

content, they moved on, and didn't run the old stuff anymore. Anyone not raiding from the beginning fell

behind due to needed gear from the older content to do the next lvl. Only reason people didn't fall behind

sooner was because all the raid drops could be sold in the AH. So people could buy the gear.

[ZionHalcyon]

As levels increase, the gear will need to be tweaked.

 

 

Here's the thing - currently there is an issue where classic comms really don't mean a hill of poodoo because you can just bypass them for basic. There really therefore isn't much of a point doing the level 50 flashpoints and ops for loot because you can skip all that, run Makeb and the Oricon dailies, and get a full set of 66's and off you go into your raid progressions - hell, you can even use planetary coms for 58s to help you along Makeb and Oricon.

 

Pushing the level cap to 60 and beyond, and readjusting where comms fit in might actually give some meaning to running those classic comms, as suddenly we have a whole 10 levels before things needs to be tweaked.

 

I think the main thing here is this - internally, they need to have a plan where this is going to go and what level will they finally conclude the main story in, and what level that will conclude with. Once armed with that, have the understanding that all operations are in essence, temporary at a certain level until they finally reach whatever number they decide is the last, and then they do a final balance and reorganization of all the flashpoints and operations, reseeding them where necessary and giving them the appropriate comms for that level.

 

I think they need to rethink flashpoints and ops through that lense, so that there is a cohesive plan going forward.

[morfius]

I dont see why anyone would complain about increased level cap

 

I just resubd 2 days ago

Played (was logged in longer but played is 10 hours) 10 hours over two days and im 55 on main

 

no xp boosts beyond the expected rested xp for being unsubbed 12 months

All I did was Black Hole dailes twice

Illum dailies twice

Section X once

CZ Dailes twice

And about 1/3rd Makeb (if that)

 

So at the insane rate of xp gain, why would anyone complain about more levels.

 

Even the most casual of casual can do 10 hours play in the shortest period of time

 

Now if they put in 5 more levels and it took to go from 55-60 the same amount of play time as it took to go from 1-55, then I could see and understand some complaints (personally Id love it but I hate ultra easy mode leveling).

 

But I honestly dont see that happening

 

1 char ... hardly an issue.

14 = hey friends and guild members, forgot about me in next 3 - 6 months (200 hours game play but not 10 per day, mostly 1 - 2).

[morfius]

Main issue with level caps in alt based game... when you have to run same content more than 10 times.

And pure time involved for those that have no 10+ hours to play per day.

To get at least 4 per faction able for end game will mean at least 3 months for me... and may burn me out of game.

[slafko]

Because if you charge people $ for added content a level cap raise is kinda expected?

But then again, raising level cap is not content. It's just a lazy way out.

Edited March 24, 2014 by slafko

[Mowermanx]

You need content for levels, but you don't need levels for content.

Its a dangerous game BW are playing, if they dont do something about the elder gamer, it seems quite silly to make what is already a sparse area obsolete by lifting the level.

But hey, they may have tons of new level 60 FPs, OPs and daily areas ready for release..... cough....

[dbears]

So sick of you alt-oholic completionists complaining about this game.

 

"Don't raise the level cap. I don't wanna level my 33 toons."

 

"Don't add new gear. I don't wanna gear up my 33 toons."

 

Shut up and enjoy the game.

[Manweth]

Honestly I think they should end the next cap at 61 or something similar. Most OCD sufferers are obsessed with even numbers. Me? I hate the, and much prefer odd numbers, unless it's the number 4 or 8.

 

Hate to be that guy, but 4and 8 sucks!

 

No really, anythnig that's not either 0,100 or 1000 irritates me.

 

So level 100 I hope for

[Manweth]

Btw, all of you here realize TFB was a lvl 50 content...

 

And it was upgraded.

 

Nothing is stopping them from doing the same with old FPs and Ops.

 

Stop worrying so much people, it's gonna be fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine.

[Vigilanis]

I think in order for the game to progress, they inevitably need to increase the level cap or it will stagnate, like somebody said, look at WoW about to introduce a level 100 update, and as I recall from my SWG days they jumped to level 80 and I think they went to 90 too? Maybe someone can remind me it has been so long.

 

It is a natural part of the growth and evolution to see level cap increases. The problem comes when they don't release the new content that accompanies it, so naturally you will have you 50 and 55 HM / NM runs, but they need some new OP's that cater only for the higher, say level 60 Cap limit, and maybe a new even harder mode of existing OP's aimed at the new level 60's.

 

It will happen, just a case of when and how they will handle it, and of course how well it is implemented

[BaronV]

im sorry but WHERE did they say that the level cap is to be raised to 60? I cant seem to find anything about it beyond this post:confused:

 

BTW I hope this is false news because i think its completely not the time to be raising it. What reason is there to raise it at all other then a cheap time sink to get people to waste more time levelling from 55->60?

 

The 50-55 levelling stage is pretty gruesome as it is...

[Vhaegrant]

There was an interesting talk given awhile ago by one of the developers of 'Age Of Empires Online', looking back over the many errors they made with content development ( F2P the Wrong Way ). The single thing they flagged up was never raising the level cap on the civilisation caused a serious impact on the number of casual gamers returning to the game. In the end the hardcore population wasn't generating enough revenue for the development cycle and the game went into maintenance mode.

 

Never underestimate the need of a casual returning gamer base to keep an MMO viable. You will find there are many players who would struggle to care less about the constant addition of Operations they will never play. However, this population of players would come back to level a character or two through new content. New content that Bioware will probably charge the early adopters to use (such as they did with 'Rise of the Hutt Cartel' and I have absolutely no problem with, in fact as a subscriber I felt the charge was a steal for the extra gameplay) and must buy content for F2P gamers.

[DjJazz]

 

Now that I think about it isn't WOW going to be level 100 on the next expansion....I really start to wonder how fast it takes to kill Arthus now....2 swings and call it a day...or the lovely scene of 1 hit and then cut scene with your character bleeding and crying having this epic battle only to realize you just walked up to him and bashed him into the wall with 1 attack.....man how much I love maxing out my final fantasy games with mass grinding only to run into the final end game boss and get the funny cut scene of my character acting as if he had a real challenge...

 

Funny thing is your character isn't in the cut scene. Its only Arthas, Tirion, and Bolvar.

 

How many times have you done the raid again with those 1 hit kills?

[ZionHalcyon]

There was an interesting talk given awhile ago by one of the developers of 'Age Of Empires Online', looking back over the many errors they made with content development ( F2P the Wrong Way ). The single thing they flagged up was never raising the level cap on the civilisation caused a serious impact on the number of casual gamers returning to the game. In the end the hardcore population wasn't generating enough revenue for the development cycle and the game went into maintenance mode.

 

Never underestimate the need of a casual returning gamer base to keep an MMO viable. You will find there are many players who would struggle to care less about the constant addition of Operations they will never play. However, this population of players would come back to level a character or two through new content. New content that Bioware will probably charge the early adopters to use (such as they did with 'Rise of the Hutt Cartel' and I have absolutely no problem with, in fact as a subscriber I felt the charge was a steal for the extra gameplay) and must buy content for F2P gamers.

 

Yep, raising the level cap is what gives casuals and story people content to do. Not everyone raids or runs flashpoints.

[Grayseven]

im sorry but WHERE did they say that the level cap is to be raised to 60? I cant seem to find anything about it beyond this post:confused:

 

BTW I hope this is false news because i think its completely not the time to be raising it. What reason is there to raise it at all other then a cheap time sink to get people to waste more time levelling from 55->60?

 

The 50-55 levelling stage is pretty gruesome as it is...

 

Because that is how MMO's work. Level caps get raised all the time. In between level cap increases you have raid difficulty increases and gear level increases. Once you hit the top raid difficulty which in this case appears to be DP NiM and the corresponding gear increase you have no other ladder run except for a new level cap.

 

An MMO that stays stagnant at a level cap for very long will start to rapidly bleed subs. Something has to keep players coming back for more and for most this is the constant progression inherent in an MMO. While you may feel it's "not the right time" there are many who feel it is past due considering it's been around a year since the last short 5 level increase and corresponding story line addition.

 

You should expect level increases. The game can not wait for stragglers any more than it can speed up the process for those who speed through any new content.

[ItachiZaku]

If you don't raise the level cap, the casuals who barely raid will leave. The end.

[ZionHalcyon]

im sorry but WHERE did they say that the level cap is to be raised to 60? I cant seem to find anything about it beyond this post:confused:

 

BTW I hope this is false news because i think its completely not the time to be raising it. What reason is there to raise it at all other then a cheap time sink to get people to waste more time levelling from 55->60?

 

The 50-55 levelling stage is pretty gruesome as it is...

 

They are raising the level cap.

Check the Q&A:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=731089

 

People are assuming its to 60 because the last level cap raise was 5 levels. In reality, they could run up the level cap to 75 for all we know.

Edited March 24, 2014 by ZionHalcyon

[Grayseven]

They are raising the level cap.

Check the Q&A:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=731089

 

People are assuming its to 60 because the last level cap raise was 5 levels. In reality, they could run up the level cap to 75 for all we know.

 

Yep. The assumption is because Makeb raised the cap by 5 a year ago and 5 seems to be the new thing to prevent the kind of number inflation being seen over at WoW. I remember when sustaining 5k DPS was seen as some kind of awesome in that game and now it looks like it's over 100k...

 

IMO with 5 levels it actually makes things easier on developers. They can easily set the experience rewards and amount needed for each new level to meet whatever play time time-frame they are aiming for while only needing to add 5 levels worth of talents and skills (or tweaking new fights to take into account the added skill points to current trees).

 

I'm sure they have some tried and true formula on how to go about these things but I'd be surprised to see more than 5 levels added in.

[Fantazm]

Yep, raising the level cap is what gives casuals and story people content to do. Not everyone raids or runs flashpoints.

 

No, content is what gives people something to do. Raising the level cap without quite a bit of content to go along with it would be pointless. From 50 to 55 to level up you can do missions/dailies on Ilum, Sec X, BH, Makeb, CZ and Oricon and you can also do a number of HM FPs and you can also do Ops if they're your thing. The issue is quite a lot of that is level 50 so as soon as you go to level 56/57 all of that goes grey and you stop getting any XP from it.

 

I'm not against raising it in principle, I just think they need to release quite a lot of new stuff for people to do if it's raised. Fingers crossed that is what happens.

[ZionHalcyon]

No, content is what gives people something to do. Raising the level cap without quite a bit of content to go along with it would be pointless. From 50 to 55 to level up you can do missions/dailies on Ilum, Sec X, BH, Makeb, CZ and Oricon and you can also do a number of HM FPs and you can also do Ops if they're your thing. The issue is quite a lot of that is level 50 so as soon as you go to level 56/57 all of that goes grey and you stop getting any XP from it.

 

I'm not against raising it in principle, I just think they need to release quite a lot of new stuff for people to do if it's raised. Fingers crossed that is what happens.

 

You're arguing a silly argument because everyone defines what content is to them differently. What you feel is content isn't the same as what I feel is content.

 

I feel very comfortable reiterating that the increase in level (and assuming the accompanying planet with story) is something that will keep casuals and STORY people (my second time saying this) playing the game longer.

 

The game is built on story. Leveling and questing give a sense of accomplishment and people who are of like minds as myself want the story to continue and go some place. Not with flashpoints, not with ops, not with dailies, but with questing.

 

If you're fine without that, good on ya. But just because you are fine without it doesn't mean everyone should be. Different strokes for different folks.

[Fantazm]

You're arguing a silly argument because everyone defines what content is to them differently. What you feel is content isn't the same as what I feel is content.

 

I feel very comfortable reiterating that the increase in level (and assuming the accompanying planet with story) is something that will keep casuals and STORY people (my second time saying this) playing the game longer.

 

The game is built on story. Leveling and questing give a sense of accomplishment and people who are of like minds as myself want the story to continue and go some place. Not with flashpoints, not with ops, not with dailies, but with questing.

 

If you're fine without that, good on ya. But just because you are fine without it doesn't mean everyone should be. Different strokes for different folks.

 

Now read what I typed please and not what you want to argue.

 

I actually agree with you to a point but if you're going to quest you need to add quests and things for people to actually do.

 

So therefore, as I said......

 

I'm not against raising it in principle, I just think they need to release quite a lot of new stuff for people to do if it's raised. Fingers crossed that is what happens.

[ZionHalcyon]

Now read what I typed please and not what you want to argue.

 

I actually agree with you to a point but if you're going to quest you need to add quests and things for people to actually do.

 

So therefore, as I said......

 

I'm not against raising it in principle, I just think they need to release quite a lot of new stuff for people to do if it's raised. Fingers crossed that is what happens.

 

Yeah, that's a my bad.

 

Apologies.

[WookieIsshe]

I tend to agree, another cap raise so soon after the last seems perfunctory and will either mean another talent tree redesign or rebalancing of skills to account for the five extra points.

 

I hope if it does come to pass sooner than expected they tune the xp gain waaaaay down and provide a bit more levelling content than we got on Makeb, as 50-55 was so quick and easy it almost felt pointless.

 

It took me almost 2 months to level from 50 to 55 on one character. I have something called a life and do not sit on my butt all day to get to 55 the quickest. What you speak about are power levelers that race to end game and then come to the forums to whine and complain that there is nothing to do. From your post I gather you are in that particular category.

 

Fact is that the vast majority of gamers are not power levelers and are quite happy with the speed of progression as it is now and was with Makeb. Of course this is just my objective observation.

[DOHboy]

It took me almost 2 months to level from 50 to 55 on one character. I have something called a life and do not sit on my butt all day to get to 55 the quickest. What you speak about are power levelers that race to end game and then come to the forums to whine and complain that there is nothing to do. From your post I gather you are in that particular category.

 

Fact is that the vast majority of gamers are not power levelers and are quite happy with the speed of progression as it is now and was with Makeb. Of course this is just my objective observation.

 

you do realize that its been almost a year since RotHC has been released and makeb right? And along with 55 they also redid the end game ops and released new ops that fed the progression guys sufficiently until Oricon came out and gave a whole new meaning to pain....

 

If you dont' feel like you are progressing and growing, the game becomes stagnant and you leave. If you grow to quickly the concept of a level becomes moot and alot of the content gets skipped. Finding a balance can be difficult but a year between level caps would be reasonable to most people.

[arunav]

Now read what I typed please and not what you want to argue.

 

I actually agree with you to a point but if you're going to quest you need to add quests and things for people to actually do.

 

So therefore, as I said......

 

I'm not against raising it in principle, I just think they need to release quite a lot of new stuff for people to do if it's raised. Fingers crossed that is what happens.

 

This is my thinking as well, with the caution that BW has been generally slow on adding endgame content since launch. And, now, they will have less to pull from that was already worked on or complete before 2012.

 

In short, raising the cap, unless BW either 1) has a lot of new endgame FPs and Ops ready to go (skeptical on this), or 2) raises some of the older FPs and Ops to the new level cap, isn't the best idea.

 

For story folks (I am one of them), you don't need a new cap to bring them back, if they left. They'll want to play the new planet and whatever else is released with it anyway. An expansion doesn't necessarily need a level cap increase, though I understand they often go hand in hand.

 

For SWTOR, because endgame content is generally slow to arrive, increasing the level cap is a tricky balancing act (no pun intended).

Edited March 24, 2014 by arunav