CC and Marauders

[LunarAshes]

Hi guys, I'm a fairly new player and I've been doing a lot of PvP recently but I encounter a LOT of frustration with regards to CC. As a Carnage Marauder at level 40, right now my only CCs are Force Choke which leaves me open to get killed and the Immobilize on Ravage from the Carnage tree. I've just come out of a game of Huttball where I felt like *I* was the ball instead. I leap at someone, start Gore/Ravage ASAP for some burst but get pushed away immediately, having wasted 3 crucial cooldowns only to get flung off a platform to the floor below, away from all the action where I'm no use to anybody. I've noticed this is a common theme when playing this class and it really feels like I'm swimming upstream when I have to push through all these CCs to even get in range to attack - at which point it's still totally possible for the other player to run around and stealth or charge away. I appreciate that Marauders are awesome in 1v1, and I can handle that fine. It's in large teamfights that I feel like I have no role and I just get killed from afar or via AoEs by Bounty Hunters and the like.

 

So... the problems I'm facing are:

- Lack of CCs to keep my enemy within damaging distance

- Lack of CC immunity to keep me alive and where I should be (God, I could go for a BKB in this game)

- Lack of mobility to keep me moving fast enough to "hit and run" or bounce between targets

- Lack of escapes other than Force Camouflage which is 4s per 45s of cooldown

 

I'm not entirely new to competitive gaming. I know in scenarios like this it's most often the player doing something wrong or not completely understanding some of the mechanics or metagame. My question to you guys is... what should I be doing?

[Cempa]

You are going through a learning curve which is a good thing, keep at it and you will learn when and how to do what AND then you will feel like a boss.

[Sappharan]

Hi guys, I'm a fairly new player and I've been doing a lot of PvP recently but I encounter a LOT of frustration with regards to CC. As a Carnage Marauder at level 40, right now my only CCs are Force Choke which leaves me open to get killed and the Immobilize on Ravage from the Carnage tree. I've just come out of a game of Huttball where I felt like *I* was the ball instead. I leap at someone, start Gore/Ravage ASAP for some burst but get pushed away immediately, having wasted 3 crucial cooldowns only to get flung off a platform to the floor below, away from all the action where I'm no use to anybody. I've noticed this is a common theme when playing this class and it really feels like I'm swimming upstream when I have to push through all these CCs to even get in range to attack - at which point it's still totally possible for the other player to run around and stealth or charge away. I appreciate that Marauders are awesome in 1v1, and I can handle that fine. It's in large teamfights that I feel like I have no role and I just get killed from afar or via AoEs by Bounty Hunters and the like.

 

So... the problems I'm facing are:

- Lack of CCs to keep my enemy within damaging distance

- Lack of CC immunity to keep me alive and where I should be (God, I could go for a BKB in this game)

- Lack of mobility to keep me moving fast enough to "hit and run" or bounce between targets

- Lack of escapes other than Force Camouflage which is 4s per 45s of cooldown

 

I'm not entirely new to competitive gaming. I know in scenarios like this it's most often the player doing something wrong or not completely understanding some of the mechanics or metagame. My question to you guys is... what should I be doing?

 

Best advice? Try fighting PvE challenges (alone such as when doing dailies). This will afford you relatively stress free live opponents on which to practice combinations and they will force you to juggle that while using defensive cooldowns. After a bit, you will feel confident enough intuit these conundrums yourself.

 

I am not attempting to be snarky. It's just that Carnage/Combat is as chaotic a spec as you'll want to encounter in the game. I love it, though.

[KyleSChen]

I leap at someone

 

There's one of the problems. leaping at someone will almost always and instantly get you a knockback and/or stun. ESPECIALLY in huttball. Instead walk up to your target or choose someone busy with another target. Or you could jump, wait for knockback, walk up, start attacking.

Edited March 13, 2014 by KyleSChen

[Cordorian]

 

So... the problems I'm facing are:

- Lack of CCs to keep my enemy within damaging distance

- Lack of CC immunity to keep me alive and where I should be (God, I could go for a BKB in this game)

- Lack of mobility to keep me moving fast enough to "hit and run" or bounce between targets

- Lack of escapes other than Force Camouflage which is 4s per 45s of cooldown

 

It would actually be worse if you would be playing anni.... but yes the issue is present and it tend to say combat sentinels and carnage marauders are basically born stunned.

 

some of the problems you are facing while diminish (you are level 40, right),so some abilites will greatly help.

-The 30m AoE saber throw at level 51 has a slow attached, reduces the kiting potential enormously and is on a relative low CD and does decent damage.

- the root deadly throw... really nice to have.

- instant fury gain for predation... predation is so god damn useful.

- intimidating roar - probably the best mez in game so. when you are in trouble IR and predation away, helps a lot of times

 

On always should keep in my that carnage isnt smash. Carnage is more like concealment with good CD but without stealth. You want to attack your target when they dont expect you and kill them before they can really respond. I guess the one thing everybody new to the spec, learn is that leaping into a group smash style, absolute suicide 9/10 cases (in 1/10 cases you have a superb pocket healer).

[Vodrin]

I main a combat sent so I know what you are talking about. That said, there are things you can do from a play perspective that can still make you a force to be feared.

 

First, try not to start any encounter with leap unless you absolutely need to get to a target you can reach no other way. Otherwise save leap to use to reclose after a knockback or root.

 

Second, never follow gore with ravage unless you know your target has burned their CC's or is per-occupied with something else. Open with battering assault and use your trauma throw (as it will also root the target with the right spec). This will usually get your target to burn their stuns or knock back allowing you to reclose after the CC and use your Gore window.

 

Use Predation whenver you can and save Berserk for burst windows on targets that have spent their CC's already.

 

With the right use of your abilities you will be almost impossible to kite, and your damage output is good with fantastic burst potential. As a result your lack of hard CC's will not be an issue.

[LunarAshes]

Thank you guys, these are exactly the kind of insights I'm looking for! Keep 'em coming! I know the best way to learn is to just play but it doesn't hurt to also learn from some of the veterans at the same time.

 

Seems I need to start practicing baiting out those CCs first rather than going all in ASAP. And yes, it really looks like the Carnage tree opens up at the tail end so it'll only get better. I'm really looking forward to this 2x weekend so I can unlock a whole array of new abilities and start throwing them into the mix.

[XeniusX]

Thank you guys, these are exactly the kind of insights I'm looking for! Keep 'em coming! I know the best way to learn is to just play but it doesn't hurt to also learn from some of the veterans at the same time.

 

Seems I need to start practicing baiting out those CCs first rather than going all in ASAP. And yes, it really looks like the Carnage tree opens up at the tail end so it'll only get better. I'm really looking forward to this 2x weekend so I can unlock a whole array of new abilities and start throwing them into the mix.

 

If you haven't already, make sure that you specc into anything that will gain fury for you, like Short Fuse and Defensive forms. This will ensure you crazy fast fury building, which in turn will make Predation more readibly available. Predations is your very best friend as Carnage! Not even sorcs force speeding away is gonna be a problem with predation going on;) Other than that, try leaping someone that have just used their force speed, KB on another target etc.

 

Other tips are: kill that damn healer son!

 

Have fun out there!

[LunarAshes]

Hey guys, since my last post I hit level 55, did a lot more PvP and am much more comfortable as a Marauder. I still have a few questions though!

 

- When in a node capture Warzone, quite often nobody else wants to defend a captured turret and I'm stuck standing there even though that's the worst place for a Marauder to be in a match. Sure enough, an Assassin/Shadow comes along and more often than not has their way with me. What do we do?

 

- Quite often I see a Sorc/Sage running away and I use Force Choke to try to stop them. Of course, it comes up with "IMMUNE". What's up with that?! Where's ours?!

 

- I've only recently realised the wonderfulness of Disruption. Now, the 4s skill lock it has on it... realistically what does this actually apply to? What channelled skills can we actually interrupt that have less than a 4s cd (this is under the assumption that you can't interrupt instant cast skills)?

[Tevzz]

Hey guys, since my last post I hit level 55, did a lot more PvP and am much more comfortable as a Marauder. I still have a few questions though!

 

- When in a node capture Warzone, quite often nobody else wants to defend a captured turret and I'm stuck standing there even though that's the worst place for a Marauder to be in a match. Sure enough, an Assassin/Shadow comes along and more often than not has their way with me. What do we do?

 

- Quite often I see a Sorc/Sage running away and I use Force Choke to try to stop them. Of course, it comes up with "IMMUNE". What's up with that?! Where's ours?!

 

- I've only recently realised the wonderfulness of Disruption. Now, the 4s skill lock it has on it... realistically what does this actually apply to? What channelled skills can we actually interrupt that have less than a 4s cd (this is under the assumption that you can't interrupt instant cast skills)?

 

1- Unless they are somewhat bad, you'll have a very hard time surviving and your best option is to scream for backup and prevent them from reaching your back. Root them and mezz them but try to prevent them from touching you as much as possible. A deception assassin/ Infiltration Shadow opening on you is your absolute worst nightmare as a guard. Usually head mid (after all you're the one who can give predation and bloodthirst) and tell your team that you need a guard. Honestly, a Powertech (Tank PT or AP are amazing at guarding nodes, though your tank shouldn't be doing the guarding LOL) or a stealthier make much better guards than Marauders. You're much more useful in the big zerg, especially with predation.

 

2- He was probably whitebarred (resolve bar filled) in which case he will not be affected by any stuns or knockbacks.

 

3- Force Lightning in madness, Lightning strike in general, many different heals, Tracer Missile, and all the republican equals of these abilities don't have cooldowns. So the 4s lockout is actually very useful, ESPECIALLY against sorcerers/healers/arsenal Mercs.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Tevzz

[LunarAshes]

1- Unless they are somewhat bad, you'll have a very hard time surviving and your best option is to scream for backup and prevent them from reaching your back. Root them and mezz them but try to prevent them from touching you as much as possible. A deception assassin/ Infiltration Shadow opening on you is your absolute worst nightmare as a guard. Usually head mid (after all you're the one who can give predation and bloodthirst) and tell your team that you need a guard. Honestly, a Powertech (Tank PT or AP are amazing at guarding nodes, though your tank shouldn't be doing the guarding LOL) or a stealthier make much better guards than Marauders. You're much more useful in the big zerg, especially with predation.

 

2- He was probably whitebarred (resolve bar filled) in which case he will not be affected by any stuns or knockbacks.

 

3- Force Lightning in madness, Lightning strike in general, many different heals, Tracer Missile, and all the republican equals of these abilities don't have cooldowns. So the 4s lockout is actually very useful, ESPECIALLY against sorcerers/healers/arsenal Mercs.

 

Thanks very much!

 

I suspected as much for 1... Unfortunately with PUGs there's never a guarantee people will listen. 2 makes me jelly. How awesome would that be in Huttball?! As for 3, thanks! I've only played this one class so I don't know what others are capable of.

[Cavell]

2 makes me jelly. How awesome would that be in Huttball?!

You have a resolve bar, too. If you're CCed enough in a certain time frame, it will fill, and you will be immune to CC for a bit. It circles your portrait when you're in warzones. Little empty bar that fills white when stunned/KBed/whatever.

[Tevzz]

Thanks very much!

 

I suspected as much for 1... Unfortunately with PUGs there's never a guarantee people will listen. 2 makes me jelly. How awesome would that be in Huttball?! As for 3, thanks! I've only played this one class so I don't know what others are capable of.

 

Solution to number 3 comes with experience, after you see sorcs or healers or merc cast some abilities over and over and over, you'll get the know the small icon next to the cast bar and know what to interrupt. As for 1...you can only hope your team mates read the chat...

Edited April 1, 2014 by Tevzz

[LunarAshes]

You have a resolve bar, too. If you're CCed enough in a certain time frame, it will fill, and you will be immune to CC for a bit. It circles your portrait when you're in warzones. Little empty bar that fills white when stunned/KBed/whatever.

 

Wait, really?! I never knew we had this mechanic too! The game never mentioned it even once (or at least not that I recall). Thanks for the heads up!

[Cordorian]

Wait, really?! I never knew we had this mechanic too! The game never mentioned it even once (or at least not that I recall). Thanks for the heads up!

 

as a marauder especially carnage resolve is your friend... once you are white barred you can make them pay.

Seriously i only really started paying attention to my resolve as i started playing my sentinel, since it is a core skill for the this AC to know when you can pull of PS-Master Strike (Gore -> Ravage)and when not (well ok, only against good players, against quite some amount of the population it doesnt matter ).

 

In general it helps quite a lot to play the other classes as well, in terms of when to use your CDs, or how to approach them in combat and to counter them. For one thing, marauders are arguable the worst node guards in the game, the lack of CC, kiting tools, stealth, passive mitigation, stealth detection, knockback, AoE to interrupt caps. or even just a second breaker (like sorcs have), makes us an easy target for stealthers.

 

I still maintain that Marauders are one of the harder classes to play well (well excluding smash) and it take quite a bit to get some success with them.

[Vodrin]

Wait, really?! I never knew we had this mechanic too! The game never mentioned it even once (or at least not that I recall). Thanks for the heads up!

 

A white barred carnage mara is about the closest thing to an unstoppable killing machine this game has. The only thing that usually slows them down is getting stunned after gore.