Cool they're doing player housing..but did anyone pining over it stop to consider...

[aeterno]

As far as cash grabs go a housing system with monetization thrown in is still better than getting a Rift-esque shop.

 

If you don't like the f2p model the purties chandelier available for your flat being CC only is one of the better bad options wouldn't you say?

 

 

I'm curious what BW has done with the concept. Looking at how other games pushed the envelope (or are planing to) I cant imagine the thing just being one instanced flat and a couple pieces of furniture.

[SimplyCooL]

Anything that can be had on the CM can be had on the GTN 2 days later so its hardly a disaster.

.

 

It is, when you think alot of people dont have millions upon millions of creds. Some of those prices. Ugh "shivers"

 

Or maybe we could have gotten content assessable of everyone. For either a sub, or reasonable unlock.

Edited March 7, 2014 by SimplyCooL

[Beltane]

Actually, the "original vision" of SW:TOR had alot to do with its downfall.

Very restricted customization options with all classes restricted to the look that bioware wanted them to have, A very strict division between factions (remember when we couldn't even send items to our toons on the other factions?) and more.

 

Thank you for pointing this out. It is so beyond true.

 

At launch, your character had to look like every other character of your class... and the endgame looks were NOT good. Content that virtually every other major MMO had was denied because it clashed with the all important story, when story is NOT enough to keep people playing an MMO longterm. They have realized their errors and have changed for the better. Story content is way more frequent than any other MMO I can think of but it is no longer the sole focus and a source of limitation.

 

As far as cash grabs go a housing system with monetization thrown in is still better than getting a Rift-esque shop.

.

 

I disagree. I'd love to see it as a Rift style. They have the best housing system I've ever seen. Selling most furniture pieces for 1 cash shop currency invites people to buy more and more since you feel like you're getting such a great deal. It's a given that a lot of deco items for TOR would be in the cartel packs, but I am still hoping they will allow some for direct purchase, both with credits off a furniture vendor and for set CM currency.

 

It's a logical assumption. The CM has some direct sell armor but most armor is in packs. No reason to think the housing features would be any different.

[OddballEasyEight]

It is, when you think alot of people dont have millions upon millions of creds. Some of those prices. Ugh "shivers"

 

Or maybe we could have gotten content assessable of everyone. For either a sub, or reasonable unlock.

 

The rare things are expensive.

 

But that's how it was before the game went F2P as well.

That's how all MMO's are basically.

 

The common stuff is cheap as heck.

Just look at speeders.

The cheapest speeder in the game at launch was like 25k. And that was a lvl 1 speeder.

Now you can buy an adaptable speeder for less than 8k on most servers.

 

You want the rare stuff?

You work for it.

Either you work in real life so you can spend oodles of real cash on cartel packs (or just one if you are lucky) or you work in-game grinding dailies and other stuff to get those millions of credits to buy that shiny pixel you so much want...

 

It used to be you had to grind the same boss over and over and over ad nauseum until it dropped what you wanted, but I vastly prefer this way since it gives me more options in how I want to grind (eg. what dailies I want to do).

 

Granted there are still a few rare drops that you can't get without grinding a boss, and that's fine... rewards should be available for different playstyles.

[theblaznee]

I never got player housing unless you could actually build it exactly like you wanted it.. Then I could see some people go all Minecraft over it.. If it ends up just being another place to pour CC's and Credits into something where you're never really at, then I don't see the point.. We have our ship, which is housing enough for me.. And I'm really only on my ship when levelling or when doing an Ops dummy parse..

 

Player housing is very much "meh" for me.. I'd much rather have the guild Capitals done first.. I'm quite certain I will visit my house once when it launches and never see it Again..

 

Waste of good developer hours imo..

[DarthTHC]

InB4 "Hey, I don't have to go to a furniture store and buy a bunch of random boxes until I get what I want. I can just buy the exact couch in the exact shape, material, and color I want. Why, BioWare, WHY ARE THEY IN RANDOM PACKS?!?!?!?!?!?!"

[Cidanel]

It is, when you think alot of people dont have millions upon millions of creds. Some of those prices. Ugh "shivers"

 

Or maybe we could have gotten content assessable of everyone. For either a sub, or reasonable unlock.

 

So this gives you even more to do end-game. Work to build creds by running dailies, FPs, etc. so that you can buy what you want off of GTN. Content is accessible to everyone, assuming they put the time into the game to have enough creds to buy what they want.

 

Making everything freely available to everyone (as you seem to want) makes for a terrible game. If there isn't something more to 'work for', people quit playing very quickly.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Cidanel

[Legolose]

Can someone link the thread where they said they are giving us player housing plz ???

Thanks ...

[aeterno]

I disagree. I'd love to see it as a Rift style. They have the best housing system I've ever seen. Selling most furniture pieces for 1 cash shop currency invites people to buy more and more since you feel like you're getting such a great deal. It's a given that a lot of deco items for TOR would be in the cartel packs, but I am still hoping they will allow some for direct purchase, both with credits off a furniture vendor and for set CM currency.

 

It's a logical assumption. The CM has some direct sell armor but most armor is in packs. No reason to think the housing features would be any different.

 

The issue with Rift shop is not in the way they monetize housing but the other suff they monetize.

 

I prefer cosmetics being nickle and dimmed than actual power. And you can say what you will about the CM, they've stayed away from that after launching with 41 expertise crystals & some low level blues + now embargoed class ship gear.

 

They need to make money. I prefer them making it on purple housing tapestry as opposed to purple gear in the CM.

 

 

Can someone link the thread where they said they are giving us player housing plz ???

Thanks ...

 

They played a trailer at an end of a cast.

 

Edited March 7, 2014 by aeterno

[Cidanel]

Can someone link the thread where they said they are giving us player housing plz ???

Thanks ...

 

[illgot]

Can someone link the thread where they said they are giving us player housing plz ???

Thanks ...

 

Its just a 35 second teaser of a "character" staring out of a window and walking away through a house.

 

The only thing notable in the house is a ship vender droid and mail box shown, but nothing else. No details about anything. At the end of the 35 seconds it just says "Welcome Home".

[ImmortalLowlife]

.......Not everyone of the 2+ million players came to this game looking for story.

I would bet it was not even half of that, judging from the very fast drop-off in subs. The people that stayed, mainly stayed for the storyline and for the Star Wars IP.

 

So you agree that chances are the ppl who stayed are here because of story. So what's gonna happen when these same ppl who've been begging for more class specific & companion stories decide "well we guess the devs were serious when they said no more class stories.." and then THEY leave? Then it'll be to late to say "wow, maybe we should have done more to keep them happy with the stories." Just like with the endgame/ PvP crowd....they're trying desperately to get them back into the game because they banked to much on story. Now they're on the verge of losing the "story crowd" because they're too focused on endgame/PvP revival. Smdh....but at least the ppl who've been begging for player housing will be happy. Now if they can find a better and balanced way to keep everybody else if not happy....at least somewhat satisfied.

 

To all the devs....You all have my sympathies. I can only imagine how stressful a position you guys must be in. LOL

[TravelersWay]

InB4 "Hey, I don't have to go to a furniture store and buy a bunch of random boxes until I get what I want. I can just buy the exact couch in the exact shape, material, and color I want. Why, BioWare, WHY ARE THEY IN RANDOM PACKS?!?!?!?!?!?!"

 

Cha-ching!!!!

 

Wait, you don't seriously think that the best housing stuff will NOT be in gambling packs, and we'll just be able to buy them outright? Holy smokes, the vast amount of unmanaged expectations surrounding player housing in all these various threads today has just surpassed the epic proportions of that which surrounded the game before release.

 

***************

So you agree that chances are the ppl who stayed are here because of story. So what's gonna happen when these same ppl who've been begging for more class specific & companion stories decide "well we guess the devs were serious when they said no more class stories.." and then THEY leave? Then it'll be to late to say "wow, maybe we should have done more to keep them happy with the stories." Just like with the endgame/ PvP crowd....they're trying desperately to get them back into the game because they banked to much on story. Now they're on the verge of losing the "story crowd" because they're too focused on endgame/PvP revival. Smdh....but at least the ppl who've been begging for player housing will be happy. Now if they can find a better and balanced way to keep everybody else if not happy....at least somewhat satisfied.

 

To all the devs....You all have my sympathies. I can only imagine how stressful a position you guys must be in. LOL

 

Indeed. This is why I am here and have two subbed accounts. PvP is just a side-game to me with little to hold my long-term interest. Sandbox features are worth less to me than my cat's litterbox. I have never been much of an end-game player in any game, as I keep a casual pace of gameplay for better enjoyment of my time in game (and real life forces me to). I am still subbed today because my pace means I am still enjoying the class stories and want to continue to show my support for that feature, even though I can actually play it for free. That stance is beginning to change, however.

Edited March 10, 2014 by TravelersWay

[DarthTHC]

So you agree that chances are the ppl who stayed are here because of story. So what's gonna happen when these same ppl who've been begging for more class specific & companion stories decide "well we guess the devs were serious when they said no more class stories.." and then THEY leave? Then it'll be to late to say "wow, maybe we should have done more to keep them happy with the stories." Just like with the endgame/ PvP crowd....they're trying desperately to get them back into the game because they banked to much on story. Now they're on the verge of losing the "story crowd" because they're too focused on endgame/PvP revival. Smdh....but at least the ppl who've been begging for player housing will be happy. Now if they can find a better and balanced way to keep everybody else if not happy....at least somewhat satisfied.

 

To all the devs....You all have my sympathies. I can only imagine how stressful a position you guys must be in. LOL

 

If their view is so myopic that it has to be class story rather than good story, then that says something about them, doesn't it?

 

If they haven't taken the developers' words and actions to date to heart yet, that says something, too, right?

[TravelersWay]

If their view is so myopic that it has to be class story rather than good story, then that says something about them, doesn't it?

 

If they haven't taken the developers' words and actions to date to heart yet, that says something, too, right?

 

Why does it have to be myopic? I agree that good story is important, but class story equally as so. It is my character out to save the galaxy (with a bunch of his friends). That was what SW was built on before King George lost sight of that with the Jurassic Park Effect. At the very least, SWTOR did personal story a heck of a lot better than GW2.

[DarthTHC]

Why does it have to be myopic? I agree that good story is important, but class story equally as so. It is my character out to save the galaxy (with a bunch of his friends). That was what SW was built on before King George lost sight of that with the Jurassic Park Effect. At the very least, SWTOR did personal story a heck of a lot better than GW2.

 

Makeb is a personal story too. On the Republic side, you save the day. You. Your character.

 

Just like you, your character, make a decision at the end of the BH story line that impacts the highest level of the Republic.

 

The whole story is about you. Your character. Whether it has the "class" adjective associated with it or not.

 

That's why the view is myopic. It's focused on a single word, "class", that is truly and wholly irrelevant to whether or not the story is about your character, includes and involves your character, and is good enough to warrant one or many play-throughs.

[TravelersWay]

Makeb is a personal story too. On the Republic side, you save the day. You. Your character.

 

Just like you, your character, make a decision at the end of the BH story line that impacts the highest level of the Republic.

 

The whole story is about you. Your character. Whether it has the "class" adjective associated with it or not.

 

That's why the view is myopic. It's focused on a single word, "class", that is truly and wholly irrelevant to whether or not the story is about your character, includes and involves your character, and is good enough to warrant one or many play-throughs.

 

But that's the whole thing - it is still your character, but the story is the same (for the most part) regardless of the class of the character, the same as the normal planetary quests. It's OK to have a good overarching storyline, but what makes SWTOR special is the attention to each of the 8 personal stories, and thus provides essentially 8 playthroughs of the game. In the OT, we had the overarching theme of the movies, but each character still had their own story interwoven throughout. That's what made the movies special and that's what makes the game special. That's why it is such a same to lose that even if we haven't lost the general theme of "story."

Edited March 7, 2014 by TravelersWay

[DarthTHC]

But that's the whole thing - it is still your character, but the story is the same (for the most part) regardless of the class of the character, the same as the normal planetary quests. It's OK to have a good overarching storyline, but what makes SWTOR special is the attention to each of the 8 personal stories, and thus provides essentially 8 playthroughs of the game. In the OT, we had the overarching theme of the movies, but each character still had their own story interwoven throughout. That's what made the movies special and that's what makes the game special. That's why it is such a same to lose that even if we haven't lost the general theme of "story."

 

Yep, that I get. It seems like i's 8x the "game". But it's not, really.

 

Whether the stories are specific to class or faction, the team can produce "X" amount of story in the time they're given. If they make that "X" faction stories, you get two stories that are about 1/2 "X" in length. If they make that "X" class stories instead, you get eight stories that are about 1/8 "X" in length.

 

In the end, it's still "X" worth of story. It's not 8 times X just because it's "class" based. X gets split 8 ways instead of 2.

 

You're not going to change the "X". That can only change if EA lets them hire more developers or content designers / creators. I think we can all agree that is a very, very unlikely scenario.

 

This is the trade-off decision that the developers at BioWare had to make. Do they want to make 8 very short, fairly simple stories or do they want to make 2 longer, more intricate stories?

 

They've clearly chosen 2 longer, more intricate stories. Maybe they've done that because that's what they think most players want. Maybe they've done that because the logistics of producing 8 shorter stories is exponentially more difficult than producing 2 longer stories. They probably didn't do it just because "frak the players".

Edited March 7, 2014 by DarthTHC

[arunav]

Actually, the "original vision" of SW:TOR had alot to do with its downfall.

Very restricted customization options with all classes restricted to the look that bioware wanted them to have, A very strict division between factions (remember when we couldn't even send items to our toons on the other factions?) and more.

The only thing the game had going for it was the class stories, but do you really believe that EA would sink more money into a game that was proving to be sinking?

Do you really think that their solution to the failure of the game to keep its subs would be to just pump more money into it and carry on in the same direction?

You know what the definition of madness is? To do the same thing over and over and expect different results.

 

If they had stayed on course they would have lost subs until there were only around 200k or less left (judging from the lowpoint in the number of subs before it went F2P) and investing millions of dollars into that kind of a playerbase makes no sense at all. Definately not enough money to continue work on the individual class storylines.

 

As for releasing the game later to have more finished features in it, well let me know when you invent a time machine to fix that because in the world I live in, what's done is done. There is no going back and fixing that.

Damage done.

 

And yeah, EA is actually making what they would if the game had kept up the number of subscriptions, but you completely miss the point that ALOT of players left the game BECAUSE of the story... not the lack there of.

Alot of players came here looking for the next WoW killer and had absolutely no interest in the storyline.

In fact, if you go back a few years on the forums and check the posts from around a week after launch and a few months forward, you'd see there were numerous threads about the lack of end-game and complaints about how they spent too much time and effort on the story that everyone was spacebarring through anyway.

 

Not everyone of the 2+ million players came to this game looking for story.

I would bet it was not even half of that, judging from the very fast drop-off in subs. The people that stayed, mainly stayed for the storyline and for the Star Wars IP.

 

When writing "original vision," I definitely did not mean the class-armor or mail restrictions, but the overall scope and direction the game was planned to follow - VO quests, at least some class story content, reasonably frequent updates for both PvE and PvP, through FPs, Ops, daily areas, or 8v8 WZs.

 

I completely agree with you on armor restrictions and the like, as I'm sure most players did. My main in the first few months of the game was a Shadow tank - it was almost painful to see what other Jedi could wear and what Consulars were stuck with, especially when you needed a PvE set bonus. The CM has been great in delivering adaptive armor. On the other hand, when social outfits became adaptive (remember that?), a lot of us suggested making all armor in the game adaptive. Instead of at least doing so with some sets, they monetized the entire idea.

 

What I guess I was trying to relay is there could have been an alternate route, or maybe still is, in which the game itself is still a focus of development alongside the CM. As it stands, it seems to me that they leak out content at the bare-minimum to keep people in it, especially the Star Wars and storyline fans you write about at the end of your post.

 

These are the people that seem to buy the most from the CM, and also the ones that actually like what BW made as a whole. Let's say the past is the past - why not, going forward, start developing content that more closely resembles the "original vision" outlined above?

 

For example, I PvP casually while leveling and a little at endgame too, when I think it might be fun. The fact that EA completely got rid of 8v8 WZ development boggles my mind. It has some of the most re-playability of any content in the game - leveling and at endgame. And in a Star Wars setting, think of all the battle scenarios that could possibly be made. Can't they make at least 1 8v8 WZ per year, in line with the quality of the original ones (that means through Ancient Hypergate)?

 

Class stories might be too expensive to continue in their current form, though I still have my doubts about that. There are other approaches that have been suggested, though, and do make sense. One I thought that was good is each class has a current companion with quests in their story. Use it or another one of the class companions (for Jedi and Sith, perhaps their apprentices), to further the class story aspect without having to make full blown chapters for each class. If need be, put these stories on the CM. There are better implementation ideas that have been floated too, I'm sure.

 

Basically, I kind of agree with the Op of this thread that there is too heavy an emphasis on monetizing things in-game instead of adding basic content. The extent to which CCs are integrated into GSF is, in my view, over the top, and I can't imagine something that's not even combat related like player housing not being even worse.

 

It's hard not to imagine that player housing was chosen as worth developing because EA could monetize the heck out of it, instead of adding something else with the development time (this will be, after all, one of our 2 expansions for the year). And as a fan of the game, I find that frustrating.

Edited March 7, 2014 by arunav

[Icestar]

...that it's just going to be more CM cash-grabbing?

 

Ofcourse it will, but it is the way this game works now.

 

We pay to play with our characters but if we want anything extra it will cost extra

[VulgarMercurius]

...that it's just going to be more CM cash-grabbing?

 

mark my words. redecorate? CC's...add stuff..CC's...

 

you won't be able to craft anything..it'll all be CM

 

You get CCs for free. Also, don't use apostrophes like that unless you are trying to say the cartel coins possess something.

 

Edit: I mean free ccs, every month. It is BETTER than having to buy the items from the GTN for credits. Just don't be impatient and save up for whatever pointless cosmetic piece of garbage you want to put into your pointless player housing.

 

Edit 2: never mind, you are probably more interested in shedding tears over imagined problems than you are in the actual housing.

Edited March 7, 2014 by VulgarMercurius

[ImmortalLowlife]

Yep, that I get. It seems like i's 8x the "game". But it's not, really.

 

Whether the stories are specific to class or faction, the team can produce "X" amount of story in the time they're given. If they make that "X" faction stories, you get two stories that are about 1/2 "X" in length. If they make that "X" class stories instead, you get eight stories that are about 1/8 "X" in length.

 

In the end, it's still "X" worth of story. It's not 8 times X just because it's "class" based. X gets split 8 ways instead of 2.

 

You're not going to change the "X". That can only change if EA lets them hire more developers or content designers / creators. I think we can all agree that is a very, very unlikely scenario.

 

This is the trade-off decision that the developers at BioWare had to make. Do they want to make 8 very short, fairly simple stories or do they want to make 2 longer, more intricate stories?

 

They've clearly chosen 2 longer, more intricate stories. Maybe they've done that because that's what they think most players want. Maybe they've done that because the logistics of producing 8 shorter stories is exponentially more difficult than producing 2 longer stories. They probably didn't do it just because "frak the players".

 

There's no doubt in my mind they did the 2 longer stories BECAUSE it was easier and cheaper to produce new content this way.....but if the majority of your player base hates it, and most will only play it once then you haven't accomplished anything. I'm not saying make 8 long stories, But if you're only going to do 2 stories then at least make 1-2 quest specifically for each class....Give me a reason to replay it. Cause let's be honest. Once you've played thru the makeb story once on each side, there's no reason to play thru it again.

[TravelersWay]

It's hard not to imagine that player housing was chosen as worth developing because EA could monetize the heck out of it, instead of adding something else with the development time (this will be, after all, one of our 2 expansions for the year). And as a fan of the game, I find that frustrating.

 

I believe we are in agreement there. I think that's the obvious reason that player housing was chosen and BW have stated on more than one occasion that they will not be continuing the class storylines. One provides a much greater ROI than the other. Which is unfortunate because the one that doesn't is one of the game's greatest strengths over its competition.

[DarthTHC]

There's no doubt in my mind they did the 2 longer stories BECAUSE it was easier and cheaper to produce new content this way.....but if the majority of your player base hates it, and most will only play it once then you haven't accomplished anything. I'm not saying make 8 long stories, But if you're only going to do 2 stories then at least make 1-2 quest specifically for each class....Give me a reason to replay it. Cause let's be honest. Once you've played thru the makeb story once on each side, there's no reason to play thru it again.

 

Agree with that last.

 

Isn't it great that we don't really have to play through Makeb more than once a side?

 

I mean, unlike leveling 8 classes to see 8 stories where we had to do the same planetary and side quests (or grind flash points or war zones or space) over and over again to stay on-level to see the stories. Man that SUCKED.

Edited March 7, 2014 by DarthTHC

[DarthTHC]

I believe we are in agreement there. I think that's the obvious reason that player housing was chosen and BW have stated on more than one occasion that they will not be continuing the class storylines. One provides a much greater ROI than the other. Which is unfortunate because the one that doesn't is one of the game's greatest strengths over its competition.

 

This game still has stories that are far and away better than its competition. The fact that they don't have the adjective, "class" in front of the word, "story" doesn't make it a bad story.