What really happened to LA? How much did EAware spend on TOR voice overs? Inside.

[CosmicKat]

I think anyone creating an MMO these days is foolish. The amount of competition and number of already failed titles is extraordinarily long and if I were an investor, I'd steer as far away from anyone suggesting otherwise...UNLESS they had the Star Wars IP. Of the next 20 Star Wars games to be produced, I would bet $ right now that 18 minimum will be profitable.

 

Anyone making another WoW clone is an idiot.

 

How desperate are MMO fans for anything different? Chris Roberts game is still just a concept, and it has already received more Kickstarter funding than TOR's Cash Shop will generate over 2-3 years.

[Karkais]

I think anyone creating an MMO these days is foolish. The amount of competition and number of already failed titles is extraordinarily long and if I were an investor, I'd steer as far away from anyone suggesting otherwise...

 

"The definition of insanity is doing same thing over and over and expecting different results."

- I forget where this quote was from but you get the point.

 

Now developers are finally waking up to the fact that this poodoo doesn't fly forever. Im looking forward to the next gen MMOs. First should be everquest next I believe.

[Arkerus]

"The definition of insanity is doing same thing over and over and expecting different results."

- I forget where this quote was from but you get the point.

 

Now developers are finally waking up to the fact that this poodoo doesn't fly forever. Im looking forward to the next gen MMOs. First should be everquest next I believe.

 

Suit yourself, but I am looking at to the next, next generation. I have already heard rumors of yet to be announced features of games that haven't even been thought about. You think EQN is going to have some great features? Just wait until the next generation. Developers will FINALLY understand what we want and that generation is going to be incredible.

 

Themebox SandPark Simulation Reality Adventure Games will revolutionize the industry.

 

TSSRAG as short.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Arkerus

[GalacticKegger]

Anyone making another WoW clone is an idiot.

 

How desperate are MMO fans for anything different? Chris Roberts game is still just a concept, and it has already received more Kickstarter funding than TOR's Cash Shop will generate over 2-3 years.

If 80% of TOR's last published subscriber numbers (which equates to ≈ 400k) average spending just $10 a month in the Cartel Market, that's $4million a month in CM revenue alone. Projected over a 12-month span that's $48M a year, and doesn't include CM purchases by Preferred and F2P players. Chris Roberts' game has collected close to $40M in crowd funding over 2 years. A tidy sum for sure, but nowhere close to 2-3 years worth of TOR cash shop revenue.

 

Beyond the initial package pledges (the highest of which is $15,000.00) and the $120.00 or $240.00 annual subscription pledges, revenue will come from players spending RL money in the Pledge and Voyager Direct stores. The Pledge and Voyager Direct stores sell ships, packages, addons, weapons and hangar fluff. The smallest preorder "package" costs $1,150.00 U.S., and custom ships range anywhere from $25 to $225 each. That's Boardwalk & Park Place money. For better or worse the cash shop model looks like it is here to stay, regardless of demographics.

 

Its a sandbox PC space simulator (not an MMORPG) where story will be released linearly in monthly "Squadron 42*" single player episodes reminiscent of the old Buck Rogers serial episodes, though others can join in for multiplayer play. A totally different brand of ball, which may or may not turn out to be what the industry needs or players want. Who knows.

 

* Thx chuuuuucky for the correction.

Edited March 4, 2014 by GalacticKegger

[KadKatarn]

That article was both a fascinating and a depressing read. They had all these sequels to great games lined up (like Star Wars: Imperial Commando and Jedi Knight III), and yet they never got to see the light of day...

 

 

That sounds like speculation as I haven't seen a source yet that mentions those.

 

Frankly, while the loss of jobs is sad, Lucasarts' shift is a good one. Which of the Star Wars games we know and love did they develop in-house? The Force Unleashed 1 was the closest they came to anything decent, and even it was a joke.

 

Lucasarts still exists, they're just a licensing entity. In my opinion they shouldn't have been staffed as a game dev company in the first place. 1313 was an example of that in its derivative, ostentatious nature. While I'm still not sure how I feel about EA owning exclusive rights I'm pretty confident that this is MUCH better than LA being left to development.

 

I just miss devs like Factor5 and Raven Software.

[chuuuuucky]

Its a sandbox PC space simulator (not an MMORPG) where story will be released linearly in monthly "Hangar 42" single player episodes reminiscent of the old Buck Rogers serial episodes, though others can join in for multiplayer play. A totally different brand of ball, which may or may not turn out to be what the industry needs or players want. Who knows.

 

What you are talking about is Squadron 42 what is basically the Wing Commander part of the game. The persistant universe is the part of the game that will be SciFi MMORPG.

Persistant universe will be like the EvE Universe but heavily instanced due to the crazy amount of detail.

[Grayseven]

If I were in the drivers seat for a new MMO development, I'd sure as heck make certain that it was in no way tied into any IP anywhere.

 

The amount of headaches this seems to cause from canon to contracts seems to not be worth any draw the IP might have.

 

The bar has been set pretty high for the next massively successful MMO and it is unfortunate that it appears that thus far the bar is unreachable. EQNext appears to be trying, but a little research shows they are having problems. Even Blizzard dropped development on their nextgen MMO and while the reasons are unknown except for rumors, it shows that even big companies are finding difficulties in today's MMO environs.

 

For the last decade MMO's have been stagnant. Except for a few innovations, MMO's are all pretty much the same thing with different packaging. The "next big thing" is going to have to go outside the box or it will fall on its face.

[GalacticKegger]

What you are talking about is Squadron 42 what is basically the Wing Commander part of the game. The persistant universe is the part of the game that will be SciFi MMORPG.

Persistant universe will be like the EvE Universe but heavily instanced due to the crazy amount of detail.

Aye, two separate tracks and the single player story track is indeed Squadron 42 ... thank you. My brain's was stuck on hangar fluff for some reason. Will be interesting to see how they get them to co-exist cuz I loved Wing Commander. Edited March 4, 2014 by GalacticKegger

[Khevar]

Suit yourself, but I am looking at to the next, next generation. I have already heard rumors of yet to be announced features of games that haven't even been thought about. You think EQN is going to have some great features? Just wait until the next generation. Developers will FINALLY understand what we want and that generation is going to be incredible.

 

Themebox SandPark Simulation Reality Adventure Games will revolutionize the industry.

 

TSSRAG as short.

After using a full bottle of Purell to clean your sarcasm off my monitor, I find myself wondering a few things.

 

1. Do you think there is room for developers to drastically innovate in the MMO market?

2. If so, do you think such drastic innovation could be financially viable?

3. Are you satisfied with current MMO offerings, or are there things you wish were done better?

[Arkerus]

After using a full bottle of Purell to clean your sarcasm off my monitor, I find myself wondering a few things.

 

1. Do you think there is room for developers to drastically innovate in the MMO market?

2. If so, do you think such drastic innovation could be financially viable?

3. Are you satisfied with current MMO offerings, or are there things you wish were done better?

 

I will turn sarcasm mode off for a bit...but that's it!

 

1. Obviously yes. Any product, anywhere on the planet has room for improvement, or innovation.

2. Depends. The innovation has to pull enough of the market to be financially viable. This means innovative features will need to be accessible as game costs continue to rise.

3. Generally speaking, yes. But with all technology, new things will come.

[Khevar]

I will turn sarcasm mode off for a bit...but that's it!

 

1. Obviously yes. Any product, anywhere on the planet has room for improvement, or innovation.

2. Depends. The innovation has to pull enough of the market to be financially viable. This means innovative features will need to be accessible as game costs continue to rise.

3. Generally speaking, yes. But with all technology, new things will come.

Thanks. I guess I was hoping for some specific talking points.

 

One thing that hasn't been done, that has the potential of being a drastic innovation, would be an MMO where the NPCs actually go about their daily lives, and the world changes thereby. Even if nobody logged in, NPCs would trade, battles would be fought, economies would be affected, wars could be lost, etc.

 

Every time the player logged in to the game, some aspect of the game world would have changed. You talked to an NPC and he/she remembered your toon specifically, and reacted appropriately based on your previous encounters.

 

Ever seen the movie The Thirteenth Floor? Kinda like that.

[CosmicKat]

If 80% of TOR's last published subscriber numbers (which equates to ≈ 400k) average spending just $10 a month in the Cartel Market, that's $4million a month in CM revenue alone. Projected over a 12-month span that's $48M a year, and doesn't include CM purchases by Preferred and F2P players. Chris Roberts' game has collected close to $40M in crowd funding over 2 years. A tidy sum for sure, but nowhere close to 2-3 years worth of TOR cash shop revenue.

....

* Thx chuuuuucky for the correction.

 

Yes, you're right. I was off by a decimal place in my quick math.

[Arkerus]

Thanks. I guess I was hoping for some specific talking points.

 

One thing that hasn't been done, that has the potential of being a drastic innovation, would be an MMO where the NPCs actually go about their daily lives, and the world changes thereby. Even if nobody logged in, NPCs would trade, battles would be fought, economies would be affected, wars could be lost, etc.

 

Every time the player logged in to the game, some aspect of the game world would have changed. You talked to an NPC and he/she remembered your toon specifically, and reacted appropriately based on your previous encounters.

 

Ever seen the movie The Thirteenth Floor? Kinda like that.

 

I think the hurdle you have there will be leapt when aritificial intelligence gets better, and cheaper.

[CosmicKat]

Thanks. I guess I was hoping for some specific talking points.

 

One thing that hasn't been done, that has the potential of being a drastic innovation, would be an MMO where the NPCs actually go about their daily lives, and the world changes thereby. Even if nobody logged in, NPCs would trade, battles would be fought, economies would be affected, wars could be lost, etc.

 

Every time the player logged in to the game, some aspect of the game world would have changed. You talked to an NPC and he/she remembered your toon specifically, and reacted appropriately based on your previous encounters.

 

Ever seen the movie The Thirteenth Floor? Kinda like that.

 

They need to concentrate on the players to make the worlds come alive. Give the players a reason to be in the game, other than just "to play the game" (ie. killing stuff). That's why TOR is so dead, no matter how many people are in it. 90% of the people are off playing a solo game and the rest are driving in circles on fleet waiting for queues to pop.

 

Instancing is a huge world-killer in MMO's. It started as the solution to EQ's overcrowded dungeons but it introduced new problems that nobody has bothered to try and fix. Same with travel time, downtime, death penalties, and inability to run away... all of these things helped to build a real world feel. They also were a pain in the ***, and needed to be changed, but removing them completely without replacing them with anything was a major mistake.

[GalacticKegger]

Yes, you're right. I was off by a decimal place in my quick math.

No worries. Though more accurate might have been "TOR's Cash Shop generates more revenue in 6 months than Chris Roberts' game raises in a year." Of note is that after 2 years his game has over 400,000 sub pledges. So interest is definitely there. I'm sure the MMORPG.COMs of the world will be watching anxiously to see what happens their first year should they reach 2 million subscribers by launch. Edited March 5, 2014 by GalacticKegger

[CosmicKat]

No worries. Though more accurate might have been "TOR's Cash Shop generates more revenue in 6 months than Chris Roberts' game raises in a year." Of note is that after 2 years his game has over 400,000 sub pledges. So interest is definitely there. I'm sure the MMORPG.COMs of the world will be watching anxiously to see what happens their first year should they reach 2 million subscribers by launch.

 

That's half the problem with MMO's today. They are too worried about attracting 2 million people for 3 months when they should be concentrating on 500k to 1 million for 5 years. Make a game for MMO gamers, if it crosses over to the mainstream, great, if it doesn't then at least you've got a stable base for a long time. The "mainstream" MMO's they are making aren't attracting many outside of MMO players anyway and they can't hold MMO players because the games are too simplistic.

[Khevar]

No worries. Though more accurate might have been "TOR's Cash Shop generates more revenue in 6 months than Chris Roberts' game raises in a year." Of note is that his game has garnered over 400,000 sub pledges. So interest is definitely there. I'm sure the MMORPG.COMs of the world will be watching anxiously to see what happens their first year should they reach 2 million subscribers by launch.

It would be interesting to see the demographics of the people pledging for that game.

 

At a rough guess, it is mostly an older crowd with plenty of disposable income. The average pledge is $100, which includes a truly astounding number of people that put in more than $1,000 for virtual spaceships.

 

Their ongoing business model is to actually sell credits directly (nothing cosmetic, straight cash -> credits), not subs.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Khevar

[GalacticKegger]

That's half the problem with MMO's today. They are too worried about attracting 2 million people for 3 months when they should be concentrating on 500k to 1 million for 5 years. Make a game for MMO gamers, if it crosses over to the mainstream, great, if it doesn't then at least you've got a stable base for a long time. The "mainstream" MMO's they are making aren't attracting many outside of MMO players anyway and they can't hold MMO players because the games are too simplistic.

I absolutely agree, and I believe it's the industry wanting to mimic social media that's killing MMOs. Take a look at not only PC MMOs, but console titles as well. They are all starting to look the same: like Amazonesque cash stores skinned up with the look and feel of console ported Facebook games. I mean, get into a convo about current MMO sandboxing and the first game mentioned is usually ... Minecraft. Minecraft? UGH!

 

What the MMO industry needs imho is to tell social media to go to hell and take the lead back in advancing technology. I just don't see that happening however because the industry has lost its spine. That, and cash shop money is too easy. Until the gaming population somehow melds minds into a singular focus, we're stuck with WYSIWYG.

 

Maybe "that game" isn't achievable because placating a generation of narcissists is simply impossible. 1000 voices each crying for personalization is like a room full of yowling cats dragging their nails on a chalkboard. (How's that for a visual?) Conversely, 1000 voices speaking the same language & in unison not only gets heard but gets understood. Unfortunately personal agendas based on mass media induced instant gratification expectations won't allow that to happen.

 

In the meantime, we are "stuck" playing the games we find most fun to play. If those games don't exist, than it's time to find a new hobby.

Edited March 5, 2014 by GalacticKegger

[Arkerus]

I absolutely agree, and I believe it's the industry wanting to mimic social media that's killing MMOs. Take a look at not only PC MMOs, but console titles as well. They are all starting to look the same: like Amazonesque cash stores skinned up with the look and feel of console ported Facebook games. I mean, get into a convo about current MMO sandboxing and the first game mentioned is usually ... Minecraft. Minecraft? UGH!

 

What the MMO industry needs imho is to tell social media to go to hell and take the lead back in advancing technology. I just don't see that happening however because the industry has lost its spine. That, and cash shop money is too easy. Until the gaming population somehow melds minds into a singular focus, we're stuck with WYSIWYG.

 

Maybe "that game" isn't achievable because placating a generation of narcissists is simply impossible. 1000 voices each crying for personalization is like a room full of yowling cats dragging their nails on a chalkboard. (How's that for a visual?) Conversely, 1000 voices speaking the same language & in unison not only gets heard but gets understood. Unfortunately personal agendas based on mass media induced instant gratification expectations won't allow that to happen.

 

In the meantime, we are "stuck" playing the games we find most fun to play. If those games don't exist, than it's time to find a new hobby.

 

The consumer only have themselves to blame. Companies realized gamers don't have monetary self control and shifted the market.

 

If I was EA I would be doing the same thing. If we want "deeper" more interactive games it will be up to the people to change it, not the "big evil companies", if you know what I mean.

[Khevar]

The consumer only have themselves to blame. Companies realized gamers don't have monetary self control and shifted the market.

 

If I was EA I would be doing the same thing. If we want "deeper" more interactive games it will be up to the people to change it, not the "big evil companies", if you know what I mean.

I still feel this is a really bleak look at the industry.

 

Such a situation as you describe opens the door for another developer to be successful providing a better product that doesn't depend on the 99¢-addiction-crowd.

 

As an example, take a look at CD Project Red. They were a small company, produced a good game (The Witcher), which made them money. They felt that the initial offering was flawed, and so spent money producing the "Enhanced Edition" with a number of improvements, which they offered free of charge for anyone who already owned the game. Very little money was made on it, but it did garner a tremendous amount of goodwill. When the DRM in The Witcher 2 was causing performance problems, they patched the DRM out, then went on to promote a no-DRM stance, generating even more goodwill. I would be surprised if the upcoming Witcher 3 isn't a money printing machine for them.

 

If all the big publishers start thinking like you:

If I was EA I would be doing the same thing.

and the market becomes exclusively shallow, micro-driven, social-networking-like games, then the first indie developer to make a "deeper" game with more interactivity will sell like water in the desert.

[Arkerus]

I still feel this is a really bleak look at the industry.

 

Such a situation as you describe opens the door for another developer to be successful providing a better product that doesn't depend on the 99¢-addiction-crowd.

 

As an example, take a look at CD Project Red. They were a small company, produced a good game (The Witcher), which made them money. They felt that the initial offering was flawed, and so spent money producing the "Enhanced Edition" with a number of improvements, which they offered free of charge for anyone who already owned the game. Very little money was made on it, but it did garner a tremendous amount of goodwill. When the DRM in The Witcher 2 was causing performance problems, they patched the DRM out, then went on to promote a no-DRM stance, generating even more goodwill. I would be surprised if the upcoming Witcher 3 isn't a money printing machine for them.

 

If all the big publishers start thinking like you:

 

and the market becomes exclusively shallow, micro-driven, social-networking-like games, then the first indie developer to make a "deeper" game with more interactivity will sell like water in the desert.

 

Look, the proof is in the pudding. As soon as that brave indie developer comes out of the woodwork, creates a game that supports millions of accounts, has mass appeal and changed the industry I will be right there with you.

 

See...it's up to someone to create this mythical great creation and its up to us to buy it.

 

Either you accept reality, that it COULD happen but will need to wait ( and at the same time understand that an indie developer will probably not break the industry) , or you pretend the entire game industry will magically change someday for no reason.

[GalacticKegger]

The consumer only have themselves to blame. Companies realized gamers don't have monetary self control and shifted the market.

 

If I was EA I would be doing the same thing. If we want "deeper" more interactive games it will be up to the people to change it, not the "big evil companies", if you know what I mean.

Spot on. Though I have little faith in the modern gaming community changing its short attention span culture unless a full blown catastrophe strikes them down. Even then they'd probably be too busy texting to notice. What little faith I do have MMO-wise comes in the form of a left wing R&D-driven independent MMORPG development firm with total creative control, the backing to do it ... and really good lawyers.

 

Hope you don't mind me having a little fun with this. If I upset anyone I apologize up front. This firm would invent a stable HAL9000 CBR/AI rendering farm capable of dynamically and organically spawning stories, plots and quest interaction hooks that autoupdate based on weekly snapshots of server events.

 

Monetization comes from subscription fees and in-game naming rights sponsorships & advertising: Pfizer Stims & 5-Hour Adrenals ... Weatherby Assault Cannons & Remington Scatterguns ... BMW Speeders ... TGIF Cantinas ... Tropicana Vertica/Star Trump Casinos on Nar Shaddah ...

 

There would only be 3 types of items: found, dropped and crafted - boosts included. Every character has access to the lowest level of every base trait in the game. Traits combine to form abilities as the player plays so builds are natural, custom and for the most part unique. Thus, no classes and no trees - only specializations based on what the character does most often. All NPCs would be tied into a voice recognition/voice response system which can be triggered by a players voice chat, text entry or mouse prompt; and is backed by a monstrous fuzzy T2V library.

 

Oh yeah - raid bosses could be negotiated with for their loot ... and massive LS points.

Edited March 5, 2014 by GalacticKegger

[Khevar]

Either you accept reality, that it COULD happen but will need to wait ( and at the same time understand that an indie developer will probably not break the industry) , or you pretend the entire game industry will magically change someday for no reason.

I'd rather be Don Quixote than a nihilist anyway. It's less depressing.

 

So I hope you'll forgive me if I continue to talk about how "what could be", and argue that it's not a fait accompli that all we have to look forward to is more of the same forever.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Khevar

[Zorvan]

Anyone making another WoW clone is an idiot.

 

How desperate are MMO fans for anything different? Chris Roberts game is still just a concept, and it has already received more Kickstarter funding than TOR's Cash Shop will generate over 2-3 years.

 

It's not just mmo players, it's video game players in general. Look at all this "indy" stuff ( games that just a couple years ago would have been laughed into oblivion without ever seeing a release ) that looks like it would have been at home on an Atari 2600 and it's flying off the shelves simply because gamers are wanting something, anything, different.

[Arkerus]

I'd rather be Don Quixote than a nihilist anyway. It's less depressing.

 

So I hope you'll forgive me if I continue to talk about how "what could be", and argue that it's not a fait accompli that all we have to look forward to is more of the same forever.

 

I think its great to talk about what could be. I want to see more competition in the industry personally but I try to be realistic about it. The more "interesting" games will always be more niche.

 

I equate it to the beer industry. All the standard America lagers (like bud light, miller lite) lead the US market. But when you want a really interesting, different experience you buy a craft beer instead.