Dragores Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hello Guys. I'm soon going to be having a 55 Jug and a 55 Maro, both not geared at all. I want to play PVP and i cant decide what to gear up. I'm having a lot of fun with both, especially with the jug. However I've heard Maro is overall better. So could you tell me what the main differences are for PVP and why the Maro is better. Keep in mind that i only play these speccs. the others dont interest me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordorian Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hello Guys. I'm soon going to be having a 55 Jug and a 55 Maro, both not geared at all. I want to play PVP and i cant decide what to gear up. I'm having a lot of fun with both, especially with the jug. However I've heard Maro is overall better. So could you tell me what the main differences are for PVP and why the Maro is better. Keep in mind that i only play these speccs. the others dont interest me at all. Marauders have better defensive CDs and Carnage has the highest frontloaded burst in game. Making them harder to kill and making it easier to kill something (a healer in particular) quickly. As the group utility by bloodthirst and predation is massive in a lot of situations. the jugg has the immunity after leap which is nice to have since, you can avoid taking the typical reflex stun. or force push is a need control ability. and you have taunts for group utility. The problem is just that vengeance is more of sustained damage spec, which in general is sometimes not optimal in pvp. Despite the heavy armor, the defensive CDs are not as good in comparison, although saber reflect if used smartly almost can make up for that (snipers shooting themselves still makes me laugh). Ultimately you dont have play what is stricly speaking better. I would rather go with which of both you enjoy more playing and gear him up first. you could still get the other one gear later and play both I am for example done since ages with my combat sentinel and i am now gearing up my shadow with her and my vengeance jugg will probably be next after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Well personally I think nothing is funnier than trolling a healer with veng ravage with CC immunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tankqull Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Well personally I think nothing is funnier than trolling a healer with veng ravage with CC immunity. horrible enemys do not make a spec worth while. lack of defence is the bane of vengance. so carnage by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) On Vengeance 'lacking' in defense, just looking at the talents seem Vengeance has lots of passive and active damage reductions. 4% is the passive and from there you can run the math on the rest. I've been working on a Vengeance jugg and can see that the build has strengths and weakness... Weakness: prone to kiting though Chilling Scream seems to have a huge radius + Rage is an issue seeing how its needed offensively AND defensively Deafening Defense: 4% damage reduction to everything all the time + and additional 15% (19%) during Enrage Defense Enrage Defense (45sec CD) / Enrage adds 6 Rage 45sec CD (combine?) + Sunder (7 Rage instant)= full bar! 4 Rage to start then 1 rage per hit/sec healing for 3% OF MAXIMUM HP lasts 30% (so Endure Pain before it to gain 30% HP???) Intercede: 30m range jump to a friend Reflect! + highest armor of any DPS and like some one said if its about to get ugly pop tank stance for an additional 6% mitigation. Last but not least Unstoppable: 20% dmg reduction for 4sec every 15sec which is a flat 5% dmg mitigation (will it proc if you intercede?) If Unstoppable procs with Intercede which is every 20sec then this build could be looking at another 5% - 6% mitigation.... Guys I have seen one or two Juggs veng play with the above abilities used at the right time...Last Jugg I saw that did was getting in top 3 in dmg every WZ!! Force Push: push your foe into another zip code and get a free charge In Arena this could all go for naught if both teams are clumped up...I can see that as an issue as the Jugg will not be able to Intercede or Force Charge on CD! Not sure what people do in arena but Vengeance Juggs seem to need room to keep Unstoppable up...thoughts? Edited February 28, 2014 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 horrible enemys do not make a spec worth while. lack of defence is the bane of vengance. so carnage by a mile. I didn't say anything about defense or whatnot, all I'm saying is I can never stop laughing when I'm playing my veng jugg and leap/ravage an op healer only for them to try to flashbang me while unstoppable is still up. It's too funny and no matter how bad the spec may/may not be, stuff like that keeps me playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaimelion Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Get some legacy gear. This way you are basically equipping 2 chars at once and you are able to freely switch just by sending over some stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Reroll to sorc, follow trend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smellmop Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 i think mara is better as far as class v class output all things considered.....but jugg/guardian is so much more fun. force push someone as your finisher and tell me you don't giggle a little every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 i think mara is better as far as class v class output all things considered.....but jugg/guardian is so much more fun. force push someone as your finisher and tell me you don't giggle a little every time. Force pushing a commando off the edge of hypergate lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandoforlife Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) In my opinion, in arenas, a Vengeance Jugg is more threatening because of Unstoppable, and how it allows them to get off a Ravage. A good Vengeance player will cycle through his DCD's, making them pretty solid imo. Mara's have more defensive abilities in general, but as a previous person said, Vengeance has access to both passive and active damage reduction. If you pay attention, you can easily cc, knockback, or at worst activate a DCD to negate a Carnage Mara's Gore window. Edited February 28, 2014 by mandoforlife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Mara is the stronger class but there is a significant learning curve with carnage. Also, unless you plan to play rateds regularly just play the one you enjoy more. Balancing in the future may have vengeance becoming one of the stronger builds, and it is viable in regs anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordorian Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Reroll to sorc, follow trend Carnage will be the next flavor of the month trust me:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hei_Atzfel Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 In my opinion, in arenas, a Vengeance Jugg is more threatening because of Unstoppable, and how it allows them to get off a Ravage. A good Vengeance player will cycle through his DCD's, making them pretty solid imo. Mara's have more defensive abilities in general, but as a previous person said, Vengeance has access to both passive and active damage reduction. If you pay attention, you can easily cc, knockback, or at worst activate a DCD to negate a Carnage Mara's Gore window. Except, ravage for ravage, if the mara gets his off it will be severely worse than the juggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowantics Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 the thing i dont like about carnage mara is that they are easy to shut down. i have no time playing my vig guardian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Carnage will be the next flavor of the month trust me:P I saw last time many combat/carnage sents/maras, never seen anyone who can make good dps, compared with sin, merc, sniper, pt, and ofc sorc Edited February 28, 2014 by TonyDragonflame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Hello Guys. I'm soon going to be having a 55 Jug and a 55 Maro, both not geared at all. I want to play PVP and i cant decide what to gear up. I'm having a lot of fun with both, especially with the jug. However I've heard Maro is overall better. So could you tell me what the main differences are for PVP and why the Maro is better. Keep in mind that i only play these speccs. the others dont interest me at all. In WZs it is close. Both are good. Carnage still has edge in suvivability and the ability to take out healers and high priority enemies, which makes them more useful, but veng can deal more overall damage. In arenas, carnage is one of the best specs currently. Veng is mediocre at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanonar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Vengeance takes a bit more skill to use than carnage, but carnage is the 'better' out of the two. Jugg does have worse Defensive cooldowns (but saber reflect is arguably broken in both PvP and PvE when used correctly) and vengeance while having the 4 second CC immunity you don't have a root breaker. Kiting a vengeance juggernaut can be easy if you have a root or two but if you play well it can still work and it can be hard to peel a vengeance jugg off of someone if there is no root being used... Mara combat has alot of burst and force camo and a good amount of roots and some pretty high burst, but if you don't use your DCDs effectively you're going to be cut through like hot butter. Not to mention all the procs in that tree are totally RNG based... Both of these specs you MUST take the time to learn though, you can't just pick it up and expect to be amazing at these. (I have seen ALOT of vengeace players the first week after the buffs and they were all terrible and gave up in that same week deeming it 'bad') Edited February 28, 2014 by Hanonar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega_Fallos Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Jugger have reflect!!! awesome ability. Unstopable. Force push. Focused defense. Master strike proc. As marauder carnage u havnt chanse 1 vs 1 operative, assassin. Jugger vengeance have more chanses to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodrin Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Carnage will be the next flavor of the month trust me:P No it won't. Most average players lack the ability to make it perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanonar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) Jugger have reflect!!! awesome ability. Unstopable. Force push. Focused defense. Master strike proc. As marauder carnage u havnt chanse 1 vs 1 operative, assassin. Jugger vengeance have more chanses to win. Assassins have force shroud!!! awesome ability. Overload. Stealth. Discharge proc. As sorc you don't have a chance in 1 vs 1 against operative or assassin. Assassin infiltration has more chances to win. See? I can do it too, listing abilities to make a class sound OP is not hard..... Edited February 28, 2014 by Hanonar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega_Fallos Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Assassins have force shroud!!! awesome ability. Overload. Stealth. Discharge proc. As sorc you don't have a chance in 1 vs 1 against operative or assassin. Assassin infiltration has more chances to win. See? I can do it too, listing abilities to make a class sound OP is not hard..... man, u like play forum, i play game. And i have all these classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turretboy Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 On Vengeance 'lacking' in defense, just looking at the talents seem Vengeance has lots of passive and active damage reductions. 4% is the passive and from there you can run the math on the rest. I've been working on a Vengeance jugg and can see that the build has strengths and weakness... Weakness: prone to kiting though Chilling Scream seems to have a huge radius + Rage is an issue seeing how its needed offensively AND defensively Deafening Defense: 4% damage reduction to everything all the time + and additional 15% (19%) during Enrage Defense Enrage Defense (45sec CD) / Enrage adds 6 Rage 45sec CD (combine?) + Sunder (7 Rage instant)= full bar! 4 Rage to start then 1 rage per hit/sec healing for 3% OF MAXIMUM HP lasts 30% (so Endure Pain before it to gain 30% HP???) Intercede: 30m range jump to a friend Reflect! + highest armor of any DPS and like some one said if its about to get ugly pop tank stance for an additional 6% mitigation. Last but not least Unstoppable: 20% dmg reduction for 4sec every 15sec which is a flat 5% dmg mitigation (will it proc if you intercede?) If Unstoppable procs with Intercede which is every 20sec then this build could be looking at another 5% - 6% mitigation.... Guys I have seen one or two Juggs veng play with the above abilities used at the right time...Last Jugg I saw that did was getting in top 3 in dmg every WZ!! Force Push: push your foe into another zip code and get a free charge In Arena this could all go for naught if both teams are clumped up...I can see that as an issue as the Jugg will not be able to Intercede or Force Charge on CD! Not sure what people do in arena but Vengeance Juggs seem to need room to keep Unstoppable up...thoughts? lol ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaya Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Depends what you want from the class imo. If your looking to compete at the top tiers and intend to be q'ing with a healer / tank regularly then i'd go combat everytime. If you plan to play more casually and are just looking for fun then i'd go vigilance. Combat benefits more than most from a decent healer and without one their survivability is ... ok (its by no means bad but its nothing special tbh). A lot of the defensive stuff will get them out of a messy situation but if you dont have a healer to top you up once your out it doesn't mean much. Damage wise you tend to have to eat through a few defensive cd's before you really start putting out good damage on it too, so if your just pugging its not a particularly great spec imo. Vigilance will put out its top damage as soon as a fight starts mostly due to unstoppable and a lot of its shortcomings dont become apparent unless your up against particularly good opponents (its relatively easy to kite). Find its defensive cd's are better at soaking up damage as oppossed to combat giving you a breather from it too Vigilance is in a pretty good spot too, if you really enjoy playing it then go for it. Its not top tier but its not far off either. Carnage will be the next flavor of the month trust me:P Nah it wont, it'll be pyro's i imagine. Theres a learning curve with carnage and it isn't particularly easy to be good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-ToXiN Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Force pushing a commando off the edge of hypergate lmao Force push a commando with the ball into his own endzone in huttball, leap to him and kill him and get the ball while youre both still in the endzone (he was low health)... best score ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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