Why do people care so much about subscription numbers?

[Lium]

I play a variety of MMOs and pretty much all of them with the exception of WoW have less subscribers than SWTOR. I feel like as long as there are people around to do stuff with, like flashpoints, heroics, warzones, etc. then what does it matter if SWTOR has 500k subs or 10 million? I mean, from a player point of view. BioWare obviously needs to be concerned about the numbers but not us.

 

For example, I can play SWTOR or DCUO or TSW or Tera and be in zones buzzing with activity and those games have anywhere from 200k-500k subs, and of course that doesn't count how many F2P players there are. Meanwhile, I can play WoW, a game with about 9 million subs and literally go HOURS without seeing a single person depending on the server.

 

So, in all seriousness, who cares???

[chuixupu]

Subs are steady, predictable income. The more money comes in from CM transactions, the more likely the budget will go into short-term CM related content rather than long-term planned content for subscribers.

[magecutter]

I play a variety of MMOs and pretty much all of them with the exception of WoW have less subscribers than SWTOR. I feel like as long as there are people around to do stuff with, like flashpoints, heroics, warzones, etc. then what does it matter if SWTOR has 500k subs or 10 million? I mean, from a player point of view. BioWare obviously needs to be concerned about the numbers but not us.

 

For example, I can play SWTOR or DCUO or TSW or Tera and be in zones buzzing with activity and those games have anywhere from 200k-500k subs, and of course that doesn't count how many F2P players there are. Meanwhile, I can play WoW, a game with about 9 million subs and literally go HOURS without seeing a single person depending on the server.

 

So, in all seriousness, who cares???

 

being a subscriber tends to show a long term dedication to a game imo (at least that's true for me). and gives the game developers a relatively predictable revenue stream.

 

however, with the rise of micro-transactions and low worth high priced DLC's, sub's may be a thing of the past.

obviously, game dev's would like the best of both worlds... MT's and sub's, but I tend to agree with your main point... why would the average player even care much less complain about sub numbers?

 

maybe some just need to complain (a chicken little syndrome? ) I really don't understand it myself.

[NoFishing]

Subs are steady, predictable income. The more money comes in from CM transactions, the more likely the budget will go into short-term CM related content rather than long-term planned content for subscribers.

 

This exactly. I don't gear and min-max my toons for the current tier of content, it is so they are ready for the next tier. Since the vast majority of raiders are also subscribers (although the reverse may not be true), if there are more subscribers, that equates to more potential raiders and thus raid development can take a higher priority.

 

Additionally in a hybrid model like this game, you would expect subscription numbers to roughly track with player activity. This is because the F2P restrictions are still pretty severe. Someone who only plays 10hrs/mo might not care, but those playing 20hr/wk or more are going to be pretty motivated to subscribe, no matter what they spend their time in the game doing. And no matter what MMO you are playing, more people playing longer is a good thing.

[Lium]

Subs are steady, predictable income. The more money comes in from CM transactions, the more likely the budget will go into short-term CM related content rather than long-term planned content for subscribers.

 

This is already happening. So again, who cares? I'm not trying to be snarky, but sincere. This boat has sailed a long time ago.

 

Also, if you looked at the recently released roadmap, saying that more money will go into short-term CM related content seems to be patently false.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Lium

[chuixupu]

This is already happening. So again, who cares? I'm not trying to be snarky, but sincere. This boat has sailed a long time ago.

 

Yes it is already happening to a degree, but the day that CM becomes 90% of the game's income will probably mean that the game will stop appealing to subscribers entirely, and therefore those of us who still enjoy the game now will not be playing it anymore. The ship is sailing but that doesn't mean it has to get lost in the Bermuda Triangle.

[NoFishing]

Also, if you looked at the recently released roadmap, saying that more money will go into short-term CM related content seems to be patently false.

 

Unless you really enjoy GSF, that roadmap is pretty terrible, and why my own subscription is not likely to be renewed when it expires in May.

[Khevar]

The ship is sailing but that doesn't mean it has to get lost in the Bermuda Triangle.

Agreed.

[annabethchase]

Because most of us are out of content and need more to get made. I need new story or I'm going to be bored. We need subscriber money to get that content made, as evidenced by everything we've seen from EA. Edited February 22, 2014 by annabethchase

[Vaerah]

Why people care? Because many of us MMO "veterans" have played some MMOs that tanked and closed down (including a Bioware / EA one, just at the end of 2013!) and have seen years worth of their characters improvements being lost.

 

So, now, when a MMO shows signs of decline, those players get worried the disaster will happen again.

[EzioMessi]

I play a variety of MMOs and pretty much all of them with the exception of WoW have less subscribers than SWTOR. I feel like as long as there are people around to do stuff with, like flashpoints, heroics, warzones, etc. then what does it matter if SWTOR has 500k subs or 10 million? I mean, from a player point of view. BioWare obviously needs to be concerned about the numbers but not us.

 

For example, I can play SWTOR or DCUO or TSW or Tera and be in zones buzzing with activity and those games have anywhere from 200k-500k subs, and of course that doesn't count how many F2P players there are. Meanwhile, I can play WoW, a game with about 9 million subs and literally go HOURS without seeing a single person depending on the server.

 

So, in all seriousness, who cares???

 

There actually is a very real reason to care about sub numbers in this game. In games that have a viable F2P option (if such a game actually exists), sub numbers don't matter as much. But in this game, F2P is just complete trash, and is nothing other than nickel and diming at it's finest.

 

If a Preferred player played most/all of the content (i.e. Warzones AND Flashpoints AND Operations), he'd need 240 *3 (720) Cartel Coins per week per character to have fun. If you don't understand what that means, it means that maintaining a single all-rounded character on an F2P account costs the same as TWO subscriptions, AND still has a ton of other restrictions like Artifact Equipment, Med Probes, lowered rates of income of comms and credits, higher costs for pretty much any in-game item, inability to mail credits to alts, and only being allowed 350k credits per char.

 

Now obviously, some wiseguy is gonna stop reading at this point and say, "F2P should not have access to everything for free, if you want everything, just sub, it's cheaper." Yes, I get that, that's not my point though. This is not a post championing F2P rights. This is a post about why sub numbers are important to SWTOR.

 

So obviously, now that it's established that being a very (as in, logs in every frikking day) active player as an F2P, is stupid at best, and outright insane at worst. Is it a logical conclusion that pretty much every guy who you see playing every single day like clockwork is probably a sub? Because most active players I know are subbed. I only know one person who logs in everyday who is Preferred, and that's only cause he let the sub lapse temporarily.

 

In SWTOR, sub numbers literally translates to how much fun you're gonna have. More subs = More Flashpoints, more Ranked PvP, more Operations, more Warzones, more Roleplaying (subs get 500 free CCs, so they can buy RP items much more easily than F2P can). Sub numbers are literally the life of this game. And no, I couldn't care less if Bioware earns 500 million from the F2P and only 50 million from the subs. The fact is, I get my fun in this game from the guys who play everyday, not from the guys who get punched in the face for playing without paying.

[magecutter]

There actually is a very real reason to care about sub numbers in this game.....

 

In SWTOR, sub numbers literally translates to how much fun you're gonna have. More subs = More Flashpoints, more Ranked PvP, more Operations, more Warzones, more Roleplaying (subs get 500 free CCs, so they can buy RP items much more easily than F2P can). Sub numbers are literally the life of this game. And no, I couldn't care less if Bioware earns 500 million from the F2P and only 50 million from the subs. The fact is, I get my fun in this game from the guys who play everyday, not from the guys who get punched in the face for playing without paying.

 

you've changed my mind on the 'why sub's matter' question. most of your points I was aware of, but as someone who gets tired of waiting for the GF to pop for example, the number of sub's in this game directly effects my game experience... more than I realized. safe to say - more sub's = better game experience. - thx ezio

[branmakmuffin]

you've changed my mind on the 'why sub's matter' question. most of your points I was aware of, but as someone who gets tired of waiting for the GF to pop for example, the number of sub's in this game directly effects my game experience... more than I realized. safe to say - more sub's = better game experience. - thx ezio

Knowing the sub numbers is not going to make the queue "pop" any faster.

 

Main reason people care about sub numbers? Vicarious epeenery: "I"m cooler than you because my MMO has more players."

Edited February 23, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[EzioMessi]

Knowing the sub numbers is not going to make the queue "pop" any faster.

 

Main reason people care about sub numbers? Vicarious epeenery: "I"m cooler than you because my MMO has more players."

 

So, you're telling me having more players who have cheaper and unlimited access to all content is not good for queue times? Please explain?

[branmakmuffin]

So, you're telling me having more players who have cheaper and unlimited access to all content is not good for queue times? Please explain?

Once again, I get the feeling you're trying to make a point, but your writing style is ... impenetrable. Perhaps English is not your native language. If that's true, I certainly can't fault you for it (and it would explain much).

Edited February 23, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[Khevar]

Once again, I get the feeling you're trying to make a point, but your writing style is ... impenetrable. Perhaps English is not your native language. If that's true, I certainly can't fault you for it (and it would explain much).

He's suggesting that the more subscribers there are, the more likely there are to be players that queue for PvE and PvP activities, therefore the queues pop quicker.

[EzioMessi]

He's suggesting that the more subscribers there are, the more likely there are to be players that queue for PvE and PvP activities, therefore the queues pop quicker.

 

You really feel the need to translate it to someone who solely speaks trollspeak? ^_-

 

Also Branka, you clearly do have comprehension problems. Do you need reading classes?

[branmakmuffin]

He's suggesting that the more subscribers there are, the more likely there are to be players that queue for PvE and PvP activities, therefore the queues pop quicker.

This thread is not about how many subscribers there are, it's about knowing how many subscribers there are. Knowing how many there are is not going to make queues "pop" faster.

 

That is that other poster's fundamental misunderstanding.

[EzioMessi]

This thread is not about how many subscribers there are, it's about knowing how many subscribers there are. Knowing how many there are is not going to make queues "pop" faster.

 

That is that other poster's fundamental misunderstanding.

 

Obviously since you're having trouble comprehending, I'll explain it nice and slow to you. Are you ready? Absolutely sure? Ok, here goes, take it slowly, don't read too fast, you might mess up your limited comprehension.

 

Now, let's start with the basic fact. How does a player get full access to the game? He does it by paying money. You know what money is don't you? Comprehension complete? Good, now proceed to the next statement.

 

If a player has to pay, he obviously wants to know if the game is worth paying for before he pays for the game. Because, you know, logic. It makes sense right? Not everyone likes wasting their cash on hypercrates with a .0001% chance of getting what they want; some actually like getting the full value of their money. Considering how big of a Cartel Market fanboy you are, this is probably hard for you to comprehend, but yes, it's a fact.

 

Now how does the player judge the game? By reviews? Reviews are terrible. Mainstream terrible games are rated well above actual good games, for no apparent reason.

 

Does he judge it by joining as an F2P? Well, if he does, the game is something that is pulling his skin every five seconds in the off-chance he's a gold-farmer in the disguise of a normal player. When I first joined as an F2P, this game felt so terrible in all the restrictions, that I would actually never have subbed if it didn't have the Star Wars name.

 

So how else does he judge it? By judging fun he will have in it?

 

What is fun for him? Flashpoints? GSF? Operations? Warzones? Ranked? OWPvP? Story? Opening Hypercrates?

 

In all but the final 2 cases, he can judge how much fun he will have by simply checking the number of subs. More subs means, more queue pops, means more fun. Less subs means less queue pops, means less fun.

 

So why does a player need to know the number of subs? Quite simply, because in a game with just 10000 subs, you don't wanna be the last idiot on the server. You probably wanna save your money and go to a game where you will actually have fun, cause that is the whole point of the game. If a person judges that they won't have fun in this game due to the low number of subs, they won't waste their money here.

 

Sub numbers are important. They need to be high to attract new players, and the lower they go, the more people will unsub, compounding the losses. The moment a Dev says they have very few subs, or worse still, stops giving updates on how many subs are there, the game is about to enter maintenance mode.

[magecutter]

Knowing the sub numbers is not going to make the queue "pop" any faster.

 

Main reason people care about sub numbers? Vicarious epeenery: "I"m cooler than you because my MMO has more players."

 

I do not disagree with either point you've made here.

my Knowing the number obviously won't make the queues pop faster and some level of epeenery may play a part as well.

(my sports team is better than the other guys sports team, my ranking in pvp is better than another players... ect, ect,... we do it all the time and in many areas of our lives... just another form of competition).

 

This thread is not about how many subscribers there are, it's about knowing how many subscribers there are. Knowing how many there are is not going to make queues "pop" faster.

 

That is that other poster's fundamental misunderstanding.

 

as I understood the OP's question, us knowing the number was there but a logical and natural extension would be 'why do sub numbers matter at all'?, (from a players perspective).

 

Ezio's well worded and easy to understand post answered that implied question for me.

quoting my post and explaining why I'm wrong completely misses the point of his post and my response to him.

 

whether or not the OP had this "implied question" (as I call it) in mind is something only the OP can answer.

 

I stand by my statement.....

you've changed my mind on the 'why sub's matter' question. most of your points I was aware of, but as someone who gets tired of waiting for the GF to pop for example, the number of sub's in this game directly effects my game experience... more than I realized. safe to say - more sub's = better game experience. - thx ezio

 

more sub's = better game experience.

my knowing the number of sub's in this game directly effects my understanding of why a queue may take as long as it does to pop.

 

if you wish to disagree with me (or anyone else for that matter) that's fine. but I ask that you understand what it is you are disagreeing with before you tell me how wrong I am.

[branmakmuffin]

as I understood the OP's question, us knowing the number was there but a logical and natural extension would be 'why do sub numbers matter at all'?, (from a players perspective).

Sure, if you're looking for a game or to change games, you might want to know sub numbers. To be extreme, if large sub numbers were the single most important factor in choosing a game for Player X, then Player X would be best served by going with WoW.

 

Ezio's well worded and easy to understand post answered that implied question for me.

quoting my post and explaining why I'm wrong completely misses the point of his post and my response to him.

I just said the same thing more clearly and succinctly.

 

I stand by my statement.....more sub's = better game experience.

Only if your game experience is enhanced by "more players." Some people do not like playing in a crowded game, yet they still want some player interaction. So for them, more players actually detracts from their gaming experience.

 

my knowing the number of sub's in this game directly effects my understanding of why a queue may take as long as it does to pop.

And how does that help you? If the queue is not popping, it's not popping. In TOR, you can look at the number of players on the fleet and if it's abnormally low, you can take a good guess as to why your queue is not popping. Who cares about "sub numbers," unless you just want to know for the sake of knowing?

[Hezip]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=722448

So much like this thread..

[hadoken]

Most people I've seen that ***** and whine about sub numbers seem to equate playing a game with a religious or political experience. They cannot fathom if they enjoy something why someone else might not, and can't take playing something that isn't the most popular thing out there.

 

While it's true some games do get closed down there's plenty of MMOs that are still around 10 years later. Whether or not SWTOR can make the distance is anyone's guess. The next couple years are really going to change the landscape for them with both other sci-fi MMOs coming out and then their own IP releasing brand new movies. It's a crapshoot how SWTOR will weather.

Edited February 23, 2014 by hadoken

[Andryah]

He's suggesting that the more subscribers there are, the more likely there are to be players that queue for PvE and PvP activities, therefore the queues pop quicker.

 

What matters is number of active players, playing the segments of content you personally like.

 

Of course... any persons particular "like" in terms of content is another persons anathema. Which illustrates that subscriber numbers, or even active player numbers (a more accurate metric for a hybrid access model game) are largely meaningless at a personal level. It's a very diverse and fractional player base in any MMO these days, so just because there are a truckload of active players does not mean you particular pet content will represent instant play and zero queues.

[branmakmuffin]

Most people I've seen that ***** and whine about sub numbers seem to equate playing a game with a religious or political experience. They cannot fathom if they enjoy something why someone else might not, and can't take playing something that isn't the most popular thing out there.

You got that right. Just another example of people seeking to validate themselves via some outside "thing." "I play the most popular MMO, therefore I am popular, too. So if you attack the popularity of my MMO, that's the same as attacking my popularity."

 

It reminds me of the other night when the topic of the game's voice actors came up. I mentioned that I though the female trooper was the worst female voice in the game. Apparently the actor is regarded by some as some sort of goddess among voice actors and one person replied, jokingly but with seeming sincere anger, "Go die," as if they had a personal vested interest in the actor's performance.