Give DOT Cleanse Protection to Anni Marauders

[Helig]

Whats wrong with the smash in 2.7? The 1vs1 damage will be the same. nothing will change for smashers..

Smash was never a go-to 1v1/single target spec to begin with. Its main selling points were ease of use and AoE ability. In 2.7, if it ships as we know it, the only redeeming quality of Smash will be ease of use - and it only goes so far in terms of appeal.

[Missandei]

Smash was never a go-to 1v1/single target spec to begin with.

 

Ok. Im not very good at my Sent because i never like the gameplay of it. Though i have leveld it as a smash and got my partisan-Conq gear back in time with Smash.

Though i never topped the damage charts and most of my encounters in PvP was 1vs1.. I just loved to go to solo cap the enemy nodes.. most of the time it was successful.

Thats why i had and still have a prejudice for the Smash spec. If you can be that that good in 1vs1 fight why do you need to have that good an AoE as well?

Edited February 17, 2014 by Missandei

[kaimelion]

You spend time dotting me, I spent time cleansing me. I think, this is a fair trade...

[Cordorian]

Ok. Im not very good at my Sent because i never like the gameplay of it. Though i have leveld it as a smash and got my partisan-Conq gear back in time with Smash.

Though i never topped the damage charts and most of my encounters in PvP was 1vs1.. I just loved to go to solo cap the enemy nodes.. most of the time it was successful.

Thats why i had and still have a prejudice for the Smash spec. If you can be that that good in 1vs1 fight why do you need to have that good an AoE as well?

 

because smash actually is weakest sent/mara spec for 1v1s and it's single target burst is inferior to carnage, sustained damage is inferior to both. It's only selling point that it is easier than both to play, but if you skill capped carnage (and that is one of the harder specs this game has to offer), you could do everything that smash will do in 2.7 and are way more effective.

 

on top, i don't think uncleanseble dots are good idea after all. It is not like most healers in normal pvp use their cleanses on regular basis anyway and in ranked you usually don't really have the time to do so.

I think anni would rather need a root breaker and better means to stay on target.

[kaimelion]

because smash actually is weakest sent/mara spec for 1v1s and it's single target burst is inferior to carnage, sustained damage is inferior to both. It's only selling point that it is easier than both to play, but if you skill capped carnage (and that is one of the harder specs this game has to offer), you could do everything that smash will do in 2.7 and are way more effective.

 

on top, i don't think uncleanseble dots are good idea after all. It is not like most healers in normal pvp use their cleanses on regular basis anyway and in ranked you usually don't really have the time to do so.

I think anni would rather need a root breaker and better means to stay on target.

 

Good god, why do you think Smash is a bad 1v1 spec? Every smart player will try to interupt your Gore window and thus your damage output will be rather low. With Smash, you are able, to put out alot of Damage, with a small uptime on your target and your Damage is also hard to counter. Think about Smash that way: you charge and smash, depending on the target thats 6-11k damage. Now you only need to do 9-14k damage, to get your target into execute range and that really is not too hard. If a carnage marauder duells a smash marauder, I would bet on the smasher.

[AdamLKvist]

Good god, why do you think Smash is a bad 1v1 spec? Every smart player will try to interupt your Gore window and thus your damage output will be rather low. With Smash, you are able, to put out alot of Damage, with a small uptime on your target and your Damage is also hard to counter. Think about Smash that way: you charge and smash, depending on the target thats 6-11k damage. Now you only need to do 9-14k damage, to get your target into execute range and that really is not too hard. If a carnage marauder duells a smash marauder, I would bet on the smasher.

 

This. It will, like now, stay a solid damage spec - it will not, as before, have the most noskill nooby toolset granting heavy single target and exceptional AoE. Smash in this game has made AoE dmg reduction a must for ranked, which in turn have denied a spot for X amount of DPS classes and pure builds of tanks.

 

2.7 will be the most balanced the game have ever been. (Shame, at the expense of operatives, again...)

Edited February 17, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[EzioMessi]

Good god, why do you think Smash is a bad 1v1 spec? Every smart player will try to interupt your Gore window and thus your damage output will be rather low. With Smash, you are able, to put out alot of Damage, with a small uptime on your target and your Damage is also hard to counter. Think about Smash that way: you charge and smash, depending on the target thats 6-11k damage. Now you only need to do 9-14k damage, to get your target into execute range and that really is not too hard. If a carnage marauder duells a smash marauder, I would bet on the smasher.

 

You get 2 Precision windows. You can easily use one as bait to force them to waste a stun. If they don't interrupt, they get hit for roughly 15k. And if they do interrupt, they simply delay their deaths by a few seconds since the soon-to-come HoJ proc resets Precision.

 

Sorry, but there's no logical way anyone can imagine Focus being a good 1v1 spec. Given an equal skill between both players, Focus loses to any class that isn't blatantly underpowered.

[kaimelion]

You get 2 Precision windows. You can easily use one as bait to force them to waste a stun. If they don't interrupt, they get hit for roughly 15k. And if they do interrupt, they simply delay their deaths by a few seconds since the soon-to-come HoJ proc resets Precision.

 

Sorry, but there's no logical way anyone can imagine Focus being a good 1v1 spec. Given an equal skill between both players, Focus loses to any class that isn't blatantly underpowered.

 

First window: choke

Second window: vanish

Third window: obfuscate

Fourth window: roar

Fifth window: grenade

Sixth window: Saberward (Not 100% but still very usefull and probably long enough to maybe even effect 2 windows)

The order on when you should use what CD depends ofc.

 

Did I miss something?

[Alexhpy]

It was a very bad call for them to give sorcerers that, please stop spreading the bad idea to other classes...

 

Dot specs do more damage because they can be cleansed, if you remove the option to cleanse them they should no longer do more damage... and i doubt you want them to nerf the DPS the spec does.

[AngusFTW]

TBh smash is pretty strong as far as other sentinels go for dueling especially against combat, 2 precision windows can be stunned through or they can use pacify/cds while most of smashs dmg is yellow, eats through cds more, doesn't get effected by pacify outside of ravage/slash.

 

In a team play enviornment combat is going to be stronger but 1v1.. rage is and still will be stronger then people give it credit for if i'm honest. Maybe some peolpe are just fooled because alot of the smashers you run into in wzs are terrible. The aoe reduction helps a little but but thats not what eats you, its the crush with choke and the increased surge an all abilitys after smash.

 

Thats not to say a good combat can't outsmart them and win occasionally but rage against other sents is actually one of the stronger 1v1 specs mainly because most of the dmg, is yellow and doesn't get affected as much by cds or obfuscate.. and most of all , its burst isnt in a 5 second window. Not to mention rages higher passive mitigation, longer uptime on rebuke.. I could go on!

 

and i love playing combat.. but 1v1 its probably the weakest sentinel spec for dueling. Its ridiculously easy to counter, The spec isn't really about that though its more of a teamplay spec you run around wzs/arenas bursting people who aren't paying attention to you before they can react.

Edited February 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Helig]

Ok. Im not very good at my Sent because i never like the gameplay of it. Though i have leveld it as a smash and got my partisan-Conq gear back in time with Smash.

Though i never topped the damage charts and most of my encounters in PvP was 1vs1.. I just loved to go to solo cap the enemy nodes.. most of the time it was successful.

Thats why i had and still have a prejudice for the Smash spec. If you can be that that good in 1vs1 fight why do you need to have that good an AoE as well?

In WoW, we called it "the Retribution Paladin Syndrome". Throughout a sizeable development cycle (Vanilla through TBC through WOTLK) Ret was a very, very easy spec to use, and had some idiot-proof mechanics that were very efficient against bad players who didn't know how to counter them. Yet anyone who knew obliterated "Retardins" with little trouble.

 

Both, Carnage and Annihilation, in the right hands, are way more potent than Smash in a 1v1 scenario. 1v1 Smash stomps only inexperienced, or awful players.

[AngusFTW]

Same could be said about carnage though its easier to shut down then a smasher for most classes but the class is all about mid fights really not 1v1. Leave that to the stealthys.. Edited February 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Vodrin]

First window: choke

Second window: vanish

Third window: obfuscate

Fourth window: roar

Fifth window: grenade

Sixth window: Saberward (Not 100% but still very usefull and probably long enough to maybe even effect 2 windows)

The order on when you should use what CD depends ofc.

 

Did I miss something?

 

That is all wonderful with theorycrafting on the forums, but I have yet to run into a smasher who could pull this off, and I have landed a full 3 ability burst within one of the first two windows every time I have seen one. As a result I have not lost two many fights against smashers. Due to the mobility and easily applied burst carnage/combat is still really strong in the hands of players who know how to use it.

[AngusFTW]

That is all wonderful with theorycrafting on the forums, but I have yet to run into a smasher who could pull this off, and I have landed a full 3 ability burst within one of the first two windows every time I have seen one. As a result I have not lost two many fights against smashers. Due to the mobility and easily applied burst carnage/combat is still really strong in the hands of players who know how to use it.

Most random smashers you run into are pretty bad though, thats the thing.

Edited February 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Vodrin]

90% of smashers in warzones are bad though..

 

True, but so are 90% of carnage/combat players. There is a reason that carnage/combat is part of one of the comps for competitive 4 mans on POT5 right now, and it is not because they are easy to lock down.

[AngusFTW]

True, but so are 90% of carnage/combat players. There is a reason that carnage/combat is part of one of the comps for competitive 4 mans on POT5 right now, and it is not because they are easy to lock down.

Thats 4s though, not 1v1. You have team support to stop them from locking down your burst.

Edited February 17, 2014 by AngusFTW

[EzioMessi]

First window: choke

Second window: vanish

Third window: obfuscate

Fourth window: roar

Fifth window: grenade

Sixth window: Saberward (Not 100% but still very usefull and probably long enough to maybe even effect 2 windows)

The order on when you should use what CD depends ofc.

 

Did I miss something?

 

First window: This is the bait. I expect it to be interrupted.

Second window: No one has fast enough reflexes to avoid the entire Precision window. At the very least, he'll eat my 8k Bladestorm before disappearing.

Third Window: Bladestorm is a Force attack. I can simply start this window with Dispatch or Master Strike, and use Bladestorm after Pacify is used.

Fourth Window: It's a mezz. I don't even need to break it. This could easily be used as a bait like the first window.

Fifth Window: Thank you for whitebarring me.

Sixth Window: This could turn out to be a teeny meeny problem, if the opponent actually lasts this long.

 

The above however is a very rare situation where the Focus player accurately predicts every single move the Combat guy makes. In reality, most duels I have don't last more than 3 or 4 windows, and by that stage they are forced to use GBTF for survival (far better to save your stun for GBTF than to waste it on the first window btw).

 

Oh, and you forgot the defenses that Combat has against Focus:

 

30% Damage Reduction against all AoE attacks, all the time. It stacks with any damage reduction CDs I use.

 

First Sweep: Use Rebuke for 20% damage decrease (stacks with AoE DR)

Burst phase after first sweep, keep rebuking and eat some of the damage.

 

Second Sweep: Use Saber Ward for 25% yellow damage decrease (stacks with AoE DR)

Saber Ward grants 50% defence against all white damage after the Smash.

 

Third Sweep: Eat it

Pacify during the following burst phase

 

Fourth Sweep: Eat it.

Eat the following burst phase (unless already low on health, then skip to the final steps).

 

GBTF during the fifth Sweep (you're wishing you didn't Force Stasis my first window, but there's nothing you can do to stop me now Huehuehuehuehue ).

 

Use Awe when GBTF ends, and then immediately break the CC with a hard hitter.

Then Vanish (their Sweep is on CD, so they can't force you out) and deliver the killing blow from behind.

Edited February 17, 2014 by EzioMessi

[Vodrin]

The additional funny thought is that combat sentinels do no damage between burst window. I frequently do enough to cause a target to burn a CC with cauterize, crippling throw, and blade rush. I always love it when I eat a mezz or stun when I just proc'd opportune attack, and PS is about to come off cooldown. It almost guarantees me I will land my next burst cycle.

[NuSeC]

Whats wrong with the smash in 2.7? The 1vs1 damage will be the same. nothing will change for smashers..

 

Unless you are fighting a stealth. Who vanishes as your stacks are up and you lose target unable to activate the MAIN ABILITY IN THE TREE. Then the stacks are gone they pop out of stealth to finish you off. All the wile not even able to bring your main damage ability into the fight.

 

The problem is they did not just nerf it in the rage tree it is nerfed in ALL our trees. This would be like requiting a target just to use Orbital strike, stealth scan or any number of other AOE abilities.

 

AOE abilities should never require a target.

 

That's fine let them nerf the damage, but making it so that you have to have a target nerfs it in ALL THE TREES not just rage/focus.

 

Vengeance has a gimped free smash that is just that a free gimped version of the rage smash and so do tanks. To require a target is stupid. By all means nerf the damage so people stop QQing about it. But good lord. they just made the ability a lot less useful in the other specs.

[EzioMessi]

Unless you are fighting a stealth. Who vanishes as your stacks are up and you lose target unable to activate the MAIN ABILITY IN THE TREE. Then the stacks are gone they pop out of stealth to finish you off. All the wile not even able to bring your main damage ability into the fight.

 

The problem is they did not just nerf it in the rage tree it is nerfed in ALL our trees. This would be like requiting a target just to use Orbital strike, stealth scan or any number of other AOE abilities.

 

AOE abilities should never require a target.

 

That's fine let them nerf the damage, but making it so that you have to have a target nerfs it in ALL THE TREES not just rage/focus.

 

Vengeance has a gimped free smash that is just that a free gimped version of the rage smash and so do tanks. To require a target is stupid. By all means nerf the damage so people stop QQing about it. But good lord. they just made the ability a lot less useful in the other specs.

 

Yeah, I still don't get why on earth we even have Sweep in the other trees anymore. Requiring a target to activate has to be the silliest decision ever.

 

I know another poster has brought up a possible reason for this, saying that they probably didn't how to make Singularity and Felling Blow to affect a single target without requiring a target to be selected in the first place. Why can't they just convert Singularity and Felling Blow to act as debuffs on the player that was targetted with Force Exhaustion or Zealous Leap? Wouldn't that be a lot better than nerfing the utility Sweep gives all the specs?

 

Or maybe, tie the target requirement for Sweep to one of the talents that a Focus Sentinel has to take to be viable, like Singularity or Felling Blow. So, if they spec into Felling Blow, they have to require a target to use their Sweep. That would be a much better solution than nerfing 4 specs to compensate for 1.

Edited February 17, 2014 by EzioMessi

[anwg]

Unless you are fighting a stealth. Who vanishes as your stacks are up and you lose target unable to activate the MAIN ABILITY IN THE TREE. Then the stacks are gone they pop out of stealth to finish you off. All the wile not even able to bring your main damage ability into the fight.

 

Wow, someone used his 2 minute cooldown to neutralize your 10 second cooldown!

[Tankqull]

The additional funny thought is that combat sentinels do no damage between burst window. I frequently do enough to cause a target to burn a CC with cauterize, crippling throw, and blade rush. I always love it when I eat a mezz or stun when I just proc'd opportune attack, and PS is about to come off cooldown. It almost guarantees me I will land my next burst cycle.

 

well at least i do not, but i´m not saying smash sDPS is crappy, in fact it is 20-30% bigger than carnage/combat delivers outside of the gore/ps phases.

the more of your burst phases beeing supressed (wich is easily be done) the more ground the middle tree lose, while rage/focus dmg cannot be supressed as carnage/combat only delayed.

 

Yeah, I still don't get why on earth we even have Sweep in the other trees anymore. Requiring a target to activate has to be the silliest decision ever.

 

I know another poster has brought up a possible reason for this, saying that they probably didn't how to make Singularity and Felling Blow to affect a single target without requiring a target to be selected in the first place. Why can't they just convert Singularity and Felling Blow to act as debuffs on the player that was targetted with Force Exhaustion or Zealous Leap? Wouldn't that be a lot better than nerfing the utility Sweep gives all the specs?

 

you won´t need a target to sweep/smash after 2.7 - but the smash increasing talents only work on a targeted person. thus the anti-stealth utility is still provided but you will lose (wich i guess will change till the patch goes live) 20% of the smash dmg provided by the tier 1 perk.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Tankqull

[znihilist]

I know another poster has brought up a possible reason for this, saying that they probably didn't how to make Singularity and Felling Blow to affect a single target without requiring a target to be selected in the first place. Why can't they just convert Singularity and Felling Blow to act as debuffs on the player that was targetted with Force Exhaustion or Zealous Leap? Wouldn't that be a lot better than nerfing the utility Sweep gives all the specs?

 

There is a solution and they already provided it, others who are not targeted are already not eating the fully buffed smash which means they already know how to do it.

If ( Target != selectedtarget ) buffs = FALSE <--- this is already implemented one way or another.

I think the required targeting is an explicit one and not a byproduct of nerf. Hopefully they get to address this because this is beyond silly, and one doesn't have to use rage to realize it.

[TheCourier-]

Dot protection isn't what annihilation spec needs. Annihilation spec needs more damage, and it's self healing back. It's top end DPS isn't as high as carnage's (without the double relic proc, annihilation parses lower than carnage, and annihilation spec has a long ramp up time). Annihilation spec should be doing about 5% more damage than carnage spec, and it does not. It actually does about 5% less damage than carnage spec. Annihilation spec should be doing around 4100 DPS (concealment operative can do 41-4200 DPS). Annihilation spec is currently parsing around 3650 DPS.

 

The Bioware devs have said that annihilation spec is supposed to be sentinel's highest DPS spec, yet it hasn't been ever since patch 2.0 (excluding the double relic proc).

 

Annihilation spec needs it's self healing back, because unlike rage and carnage specs, annihilation has no passive damage taken reduction stuff other than burns reducing damage dealt by a target (note: a target, which means that if a sniper is hitting a marauder from 30 meters away, the sniper probably does not have the damage dealt debuff on him).

Edited February 17, 2014 by TheCourier-

[EzioMessi]

you won´t need a target to sweep/smash after 2.7 - but the smash increasing talents only work on a targeted person. thus the anti-stealth utility is still provided but you will lose (wich i guess will change till the patch goes live) 20% of the smash dmg provided by the tier 1 perk.

 

Hi everyone!

 

I wanted to let you know of some changes that were coming to you guys in Game Update 2.7, specifically a change to how Force Sweep deals damage:

 

• 
  
• Force Sweep now requires a Primary target to activate.
  
• Secondary player targets are no longer affected by the additional damage granted by Swelling Winds and Singularity, or the critical chance granted by Felling Blow.
  
• Secondary NPC targets are still affected by Swelling Winds, Singularity, and Felling Blow.
  

 

These adjustments are still subject to change, and we will continue to review how this affects gameplay, but we wanted to let you know what was coming up in 2.7.

 

-tw

 

Refer to part in red.

 

I'm really hoping that the change is exclusive to Rage/Focus.