Since Nibbon has quit: Sage/Sorcerer Top issues discussion

[JDotter]

So this is going to sound dickish apologies ahead of time. Extremely sick and tired of seeing people who A) Don't run progression content assuming things. B) Run content at snail pace and lack talented healers and or ability to not use abilities at a standard pace.

 

 

In order to use Force Armor or Force Mend on yourself, you need to use a global cooldown. And in the case of Force Armor use 5%-10% of your resources. That's simply an unacceptable trade off in most PvE situations. For example in Nightmare content (as we saw in TFB & S&V), there are very tight enrage timers which require maximum dps to meet. There is also a lot of "random" damage (where an operation member is targeted to take damage) and a lot of instances where there is significant AOE damage to the entire operation. In many of these cases, Sages take more damage than other classes simply because the damage is first mitigated by armor and passive damage resistance and Sages have the least access to those options.

 

Most recently in the final fight of Dread Fortress has a very high DPS check with significant damage coming from the boss (both AOE and randomly targeted). Sages need to spend GCDs and resources rather than doing damage and that increases the chance of a defeat. Athough Sages are still able to clear the content, the community is concerned that their lower survivability makes them less suitable for progression content.

 

 

Entire section is horse **** and the bolded part is beyond hilarious.

 

I am one of two sage/sorc dps players who have killed NM brontes, the only one in 8, and 16 is more class friendly. Anyhow I took nearly 120k less damage overall than any other dps class ( op/mara/sniper) and did only 35k less in the last phase than our op who did 2.7k in the fight.

 

Sorcs take nearly zero damage from the boss, you barrier the first fire & forget and come out with a 12-17k shield (nearly all damage negated in phase 1 of last phase.) Second phase you take more damage overall however you go in shielded with self heal + 15% stun reduction, 15% DoT reduction, and 2% DR overall. Third phase of last phase is a 20 second burn where again you are shielded + self heal. You can also shield mid air before the damage is applied or chose to reapply dots.

 

Video for reference:

 

As you can see in last phase my health bar doesn't move in P1:P3, and only moves on F&F in other phases.

 

This is madness not lighting, aka the spec the sucks on high mobility fights like grobthok/brontes but parses like a fiend omg wowzerszzzzzzz.

 

 

The S/V & TFM argument is the same one I used to yell @ carnage gaming for where they were under the assumption sorcs/sages could get globaled by a mechanic. When in reality it was lack of proactive healing/healers with non turtle reaction speeds.

 

Anyhow ******** rant over, I'd welcome off the GCD bubble + self heal, the same nearly every mara/sniper ability is but do not believe its needed.

 

 

Good to see execute is listed, sad to see the sage as jedi section.

 

I don't PvP anymore see/know plenty of sorc/sages who handle **** though ( mudclot, blackness, thurinlore, idk pot5 sorcs it seems) Commisar? idk who stills plays PvP anymore.

 

Set bonus = assassin pvp set bonus = godlike. More auto crits plz.

 

Balance buff =/, still believe its superior raid spec, from the few times I ran with the #1 parsing lighting sage in hatred I'd generally win out and My DF buffs his affliction/CD ticks. Also beat him on brontes 8 = 16 dunno ( was +120 dps). Please don't take offense to this Mr Jurb. Like what do lighting sorcs do on grobthok in the 435644564 knockups or brontes final phase? Do you get a cast off? Eat purple to get said cast off? please do inform.

 

 

 

My recommendations

 

1) Please stop asking for defensive CD's, off GCD is fine

2) Execute ASAP ( Shock or DF)

3) pvp Assassin set bonus please

4) decrease dot timer ( clock phase in brontes I use force slow its so bad)

5) New 3 proc of wrath is meh. As much as you cancel FL due to mechanics you miss proper DMG at times.

 

 

 

Again apologies is meant to be helpful

[Capote]

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS AS IT CONTAINS A QUESTION THAT IMHO IS IMPORTANT AND WE OUGHT TO ASK ALSO AS SAGES/SORCS

 

It just occurred to me that there is one very big issue regarding sages/sorcs that is not being asked at all. This of a hybrid healer/dps that fulfils a dps role in the queue of solo ranked arenas. IMHO we must ask that this issue must be resolved as it is an unfair exploitation of the queue system that totally screws game balance. And this question could very easily fit within Q2 regarding the healing spec issues in pvp. A solution is a pretty easy one-liner. After default role is selected per skill points spent add one more line in the code such as:

 

if (myself.advanced_class == sage OR sorc) AND (healing trance OR innervation is in myself.list_of_abilities):

myself.queue_role = healer

 

Damn easy and damn resolves the issue without putting additional stress to queue times.

 

Why would a CLASS REPRESENTATIVE ask something that'd NOT BENEFIT the class? I know this looks short-minded, but his "role" is to protect OUR interests.

 

Plus, it's not that only hybrid heals sorcs are OP, it is that several hybrid specs in this game are OP because of the crap system they made (hybrid tanks, anyone?). This is something to be discussed on the PvP forums, not to use 1 of our questions.

 

Are you sure you main a sorc/sage?

Edited April 19, 2014 by Capote

[Master-Nala]

First, thank you for the awesome job you did here OP. Is there any estimate for when these questions will be made and when we'll receive answers?

 

Our answers are slated for May 8th, so one week before that thereabouts they go to the devs.

 

Now, about the questions, of course you won't please everyone, but don't you think that the third question is a little less relevant if compared to some problems we are facing as a class nowadays?

 

Well that's the interesting part. There are some folks who, reasonably, feel we don't have any major problems. Furthermore, there are several issues that the devs have opined about recently that we are purposefully ignoring in our questions. For example, pushback. Major issue for TK, IMO, but the devs have already said they are looking into it. They even suggested they might remove pushback entirely. So asking a question about it will not likely get much more of an answer at this point.

 

I am refering to things like the lack of DPS representatives on top parses (which tends to indicate that the class is not doing as good as other rangeds), for instance (just my opinion, clearly).

 

DPS for Balance in raids is another thing that the devs have stated that they are looking into. I wish they didn't zap the 2.7 test forums so I could link the discussions.

 

Point is I hardly think this question will give any info for us, it's something that has been asked over and over before, seems like a wasted one to me.

 

Frankly, that's the case for question 1 as well. Really all these issues have been mentioned at one time or another. The 3rd question isn't a mechanics question, but it's really important to some people. Personally, I disagree with the part about Project and TK throw, but I can't ignore the outcry against them. I don't know at this point if we can "waste" questions if it give people a more definitive answer to long standing complaints.

[Master-Nala]

So this is going to sound dickish apologies ahead of time. Extremely sick and tired of seeing people who A) Don't run progression content assuming things. B) Run content at snail pace and lack talented healers and or ability to not use abilities at a standard pace.

 

It's OK to disagree.

 

Entire section is horse **** and the bolded part is beyond hilarious.

 

I am one of two sage/sorc dps players who have killed NM brontes, the only one in 8, and 16 is more class friendly. Anyhow I took nearly 120k less damage overall than any other dps class ( op/mara/sniper) and did only 35k less in the last phase than our op who did 2.7k in the fight.

 

Sorcs take nearly zero damage from the boss, you barrier the first fire & forget and come out with a 12-17k shield (nearly all damage negated in phase 1 of last phase.) Second phase you take more damage overall however you go in shielded with self heal + 15% stun reduction, 15% DoT reduction, and 2% DR overall. Third phase of last phase is a 20 second burn where again you are shielded + self heal. You can also shield mid air before the damage is applied or chose to reapply dots.

 

Video for reference:

 

As you can see in last phase my health bar doesn't move in P1:P3, and only moves on F&F in other phases.

 

This is madness not lighting, aka the spec the sucks on high mobility fights like grobthok/brontes but parses like a fiend omg wowzerszzzzzzz.

 

Question regarding this. I'm not certain what your point is here. Are you saying that this is a TK problem and not Balance? Respectfully, I don't have a dog in this hunt, I will ask the question people want, but I'm trying to understand your concern. Saying "Bolded section is horsepoo" doesn't tell me anything.

 

The S/V & TFM argument is the same one I used to yell @ carnage gaming for where they were under the assumption sorcs/sages could get globaled by a mechanic. When in reality it was lack of proactive healing/healers with non turtle reaction speeds.

 

Anyhow ******** rant over, I'd welcome off the GCD bubble + self heal, the same nearly every mara/sniper ability is but do not believe its needed.

 

Well that's what we're asking for, no one has asked for another DCD.

 

Good to see execute is listed, sad to see the sage as jedi section.

 

Why? Just not something you care about?

 

Again apologies is meant to be helpful

 

No apologies needed, but more specifics to your argument would helpful.

[Master-Nala]

EDITS TO THE PVE AND PVP QUESTION BASED ON FEEDBACK ABOVE.

 

Comments appreciated. Be a harsh as you want, just give me the INFORMATION!!

[MusicRider]

Why would a CLASS REPRESENTATIVE ask something that'd NOT BENEFIT the class? I know this looks short-minded, but his "role" is to protect OUR interests.

For start and immediate answer is that it does benefit "proper" dps sages also, as they are also part of the queue and you still gonna suffer against a troll heal/dps hybrid on the opponents team.

 

Secondly, I totally disagree with your perception. The role of a class rep is to take actions that benefit the sage class within overall game balance. Otherwise, how can you be taken serious if you don't share this view but aim to make your class totally OP.

 

Plus, it's not that only hybrid heals sorcs are OP, it is that several hybrid specs in this game are OP because of the crap system they made (hybrid tanks, anyone?).

That's for the other classes to identify and ask for rectification if they care about game balance. Anyone else outside that class should bring it to the pvp forums.

 

This is something to be discussed on the PvP forums, not to use 1 of our questions.

No it is not. It is our responsibility to identify areas of improvement as well areas that are game breaking due to our class and suggest ways to balance them otherwise we are hypocrites every time we talk about game balance. It also helps to identify them and make suggestions before someone else takes this decision for us with usually unwanted results. Have you experienced or ever heard of the bubble stun fiasco? According to your logic it should be something that should not be mentioned and condemned by sages back then cause it is against "their interests".

 

And it does not use 1 question, as it can easily be one sentence in Q2, which is about healing spec in pvp.

 

 

Are you sure you main a sorc/sage?

I ignore your personal attacks. I am not here to behave childish but to share my thoughts and discuss about how to make sages balanced for all contents and within overall game balance.

[judgeender]

With respect to the hybrid heal/dps spec in ranked queues, I could be mistaken, but I believe they were asked about this and responded that they are aware of it and don't intend to change it. I believe it was also discussed earlier in this thread and that is why it is not part of the questions.

[MusicRider]

With respect to the hybrid heal/dps spec in ranked queues, I could be mistaken, but I believe they were asked about this and responded that they are aware of it and don't intend to change it. I believe it was also discussed earlier in this thread and that is why it is not part of the questions.

 

I can't remember seeing any posts about it, but maybe I just have missed them. And I am not aware of the devs reply on this matter... but it is real pity if they said that they are planning to do nothing as IMO this spec the way it exploits solo ranked queue is game breaking and not fun. Do you remember why they don't intend to change it? One simple solution for this case is very simple, since there is no field respec as long as you have healing trance you are marked as a healer.

[Altheran]

Well that's the interesting part. There are some folks who, reasonably, feel we don't have any major problems. Furthermore, there are several issues that the devs have opined about recently that we are purposefully ignoring in our questions. For example, pushback. Major issue for TK, IMO, but the devs have already said they are looking into it. They even suggested they might remove pushback entirely. So asking a question about it will not likely get much more of an answer at this point.

Not only that, this is also the perfect moment to ask that third question.

 

It's now more than two years that the game exists and that it has been seen as an issue/oddity... And during these two years, not even a comment from the devs.

 

Maybe they never read the threads about it, or maybe they avoided them because they don't want to justify their choices... But in the end, I feel that if we don't ask this at a time they're forced to answer, they'll never comment about it.

And if we, players, don't take the opportunity to ask about it, especially at a moment like now when there are not too much glaring issues, the question will likely never be answered.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Altheran

[judgeender]

So not exactly what I remember, but the PvP FAQ sort of addresses this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7299143#edit7299143

 

I should note that this FAQ was posted about 2 weeks after a long post on the issue you describe: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=727537

 

Are there any plans to address teams having healer hybrids in Arenas fighting against teams without a healer?

 

This is a question of how long we want to wait to pop an Arena match when it relates to hybrids. We could, in theory, create restrictions around matchmaking to pair you only against someone extremely similar to your character in both rating and “spec” layout. However if we did that, it would have very serious effects on how long a queue takes to pop. We had to make a decision to err on the side of having more matches pop than simply trying to mirror the teams exactly. The only option to address this would be to tighten restrictions on matchmaking but this will result in greatly increased queue length, which is not favorable.

 

And

 

Do you have any plans to address overpowered Hybrid builds which are present in Arenas?

 

Our history of class balance shows that we attempt to discourage overpowered hybrid builds when and wherever possible. We are constantly balancing classes and will take action if something is not falling into line with class balance. We will continue to monitor these builds and adjust as necessary.

[Capote]

For start and immediate answer is that it does benefit "proper" dps sages also, as they are also part of the queue and you still gonna suffer against a troll heal/dps hybrid on the opponents team.

 

Secondly, I totally disagree with your perception. The role of a class rep is to take actions that benefit the sage class within overall game balance. Otherwise, how can you be taken serious if you don't share this view but aim to make your class totally OP.

 

So if someone plays hybrid he is automatically a troll for you? I don't see how playing a viable spec should be something so horrible. My whole point is that the problem is not in the spec, but in the way the system sees it. It's not a problem with hybrids sages, vgs, guardians, but in the system itself. What I mean is that this does not concern changes on the sage/sorc, but on the matchmaking, reason why I suggested it should be discussed on the PvP forums, not here.

 

Of course this is just my opinion, but I can't see a problem on the sage when the "bug" is clearly in the MM, as is the solution. Why would we ask something for a problem that is not on our class and propose a solution that won't be there as well? The only effect would be to take the dev's attention off our main problem, the infeasibility of the class as healer in arenas.

 

No it is not. It is our responsibility to identify areas of improvement as well areas that are game breaking due to our class and suggest ways to balance them otherwise we are hypocrites every time we talk about game balance. It also helps to identify them and make suggestions before someone else takes this decision for us with usually unwanted results. Have you experienced or ever heard of the bubble stun fiasco? According to your logic it should be something that should not be mentioned and condemned by sages back then cause it is against "their interests".

 

And it does not use 1 question, as it can easily be one sentence in Q2, which is about healing spec in pvp.

 

Just to reiterate my point, the issue is located outside our skill tree/class gameplay, as is any solution to it. I agree with you that we should, yes, ask about balance when it's related to our class, to avoid the hypocrisy you mentioned. It was never my intention to mean that we should complete ignore any "OPness" that we had, but in this case the "OPness" comes from the matchmaking, not from the class, i.e., the spec is fine the way it is, there's nothing to be asked/changed about it.

 

As you said, the problem "of a hybrid healer/dps that fulfils a dps role" is "in the queue of solo ranked arenas". In the queue. The same way is the solution you proposed: " After default role is selected per skill points spent add one more line in the code such as (...)"

 

Lastly, this is something that, as mentioned above, has been adressed a few weeks ago. The answer is already there (about hybrids in general).

 

I ignore your personal attacks. I am not here to behave childish but to share my thoughts and discuss about how to make sages balanced for all contents and within overall game balance.

 

If you got offended, for real, I'm sorry, but honestly, there's no need to be so butthurt about it. The agressive answer calling me "childish" is clearly doing to me the same you said I did to you. So, yeah, get off the pedestal because you are far from being any better and let's just focus on the discussion, you have my word that I will try to avoid any "personal attacks".

Edited April 19, 2014 by Capote

[MusicRider]

So not exactly what I remember, but the PvP FAQ sort of addresses this: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7299143#edit7299143

 

I should note that this FAQ was posted about 2 weeks after a long post on the issue you describe: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=727537

 

Are there any plans to address teams having healer hybrids in Arenas fighting against teams without a healer?

 

This is a question of how long we want to wait to pop an Arena match when it relates to hybrids. We could, in theory, create restrictions around matchmaking to pair you only against someone extremely similar to your character in both rating and “spec” layout. However if we did that, it would have very serious effects on how long a queue takes to pop. We had to make a decision to err on the side of having more matches pop than simply trying to mirror the teams exactly. The only option to address this would be to tighten restrictions on matchmaking but this will result in greatly increased queue length, which is not favorable.

 

And

 

Do you have any plans to address overpowered Hybrid builds which are present in Arenas?

 

Our history of class balance shows that we attempt to discourage overpowered hybrid builds when and wherever possible. We are constantly balancing classes and will take action if something is not falling into line with class balance. We will continue to monitor these builds and adjust as necessary.

 

I see. Thanks for the info. It's a pity that they have this view as there are solutions that change nothing to the current system of qing.

[MusicRider]

So if someone plays hybrid he is automatically a troll for you?

I never called anyone a troll, don't put words in my mouth. I called the spec and the way it exploits the system a troll. I blame the sin not the sinner.

 

 

I don't see how playing a viable spec should be something so horrible. My whole point is that the problem is not in the spec, but in the way the system sees it. It's not a problem with hybrids sages, vgs, guardians, but in the system itself. What I mean is that this does not concern changes on the sage/sorc, but on the matchmaking, reason why I suggested it should be discussed on the PvP forums, not here.

 

Of course this is just my opinion, but I can't see a problem on the sage when the "bug" is clearly in the MM, as is the solution. Why would we ask something for a problem that is not on our class and propose a solution that won't be there as well?

Because in my opinion although it is a problem with the qing system rather with the spec itself, it still involves sages and we are the most appropriate to bring it to the devs attention once more as it is totally unfair. Regarding the tank hybrids there are solutions without complicating the queue, like locking the stance also when qing... but this is a bit more complicated and I don't think it is our place to raise the unfair hybrids of their class. It would be nice if they followed our example though as then there would be more people raising concerns about it.

 

 

The only effect would be to take the dev's attention off our main problem, the infeasibility of the class as healer in arenas.

I do see your point here and my intention is not to distort the 3 main questions.... it might be a bullet point along with the other bullet points in the end.

 

 

Just to reiterate my point, the issue is located outside our skill tree/class gameplay, as is any solution to it. I agree with you that we should, yes, ask about balance when it's related to our class, to avoid the hypocrisy you mentioned. It was never my intention to mean that we should complete ignore any "OPness" that we had, but in this case the "OPness" comes from the matchmaking, not from the class, i.e., the spec is fine the way it is, there's nothing to be asked/changed about it.

 

As you said, the problem "of a hybrid healer/dps that fulfils a dps role" is "in the queue of solo ranked arenas". In the queue. The same way is the solution you proposed: " After default role is selected per skill points spent add one more line in the code such as (...)"

 

Lastly, this is something that, as mentioned above, has been adressed a few weeks ago. The answer is already there (about hybrids in general).

And to reiterate myself I think this is a valuable opportunity to bring to the devs attention some issues that improve not only our class but also the overall game balance and particular when our class is involved even if it is not its fault.

 

If you got offended, for real, I'm sorry, but honestly, there's no need to be so butthurt about it. The agressive answer calling me "childish" is clearly doing to me the same you said I did to you. So, yeah, get off the pedestal because you are far from being any better and let's just focus on the discussion, you have my word that I will try to avoid any "personal attacks".

You misinterpreted the recipient of the "childish" word; explicitly it was meaning: "it would be childish to reply with a personal attack and derail the conversation". I hope you realise that "offended, butthurt, better than anyone else" are words that have not come out of my keyboard.

[MidichIorian]

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS AS IT CONTAINS A QUESTION THAT IMHO IS IMPORTANT AND WE OUGHT TO ASK ALSO AS SAGES/SORCS

 

It just occurred to me that there is one very big issue regarding sages/sorcs that is not being asked at all. This of a hybrid healer/dps that fulfils a dps role in the queue of solo ranked arenas. IMHO we must ask that this issue must be resolved as it is an unfair exploitation of the queue system that totally screws game balance. And this question could very easily fit within Q2 regarding the healing spec issues in pvp. A solution is a pretty easy one-liner. After default role is selected per skill points spent add one more line in the code such as:

 

if (myself.advanced_class == sage OR sorc) AND (healing trance OR innervation is in myself.list_of_abilities):

myself.queue_role = healer

 

Damn easy and damn resolves the issue without putting additional stress to queue times.

With the buff to white damage and crits in general it's probably going to be our only viable spec. It's certainly the only one I will be attampting in yolo queue because in the event that there are two sins on the other team I'm going to be losing roughly 20-28K as they open. They should fix the insane burst on certain specs before they start *********** with the hybrids.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Extremely sick and tired of seeing people who A) Don't run progression content assuming things.

 

Well, how great is the number of players running progression content ? 10.000 ? 100.000 ?

 

You just cannot assume everyone and their mother to run progression content. Which siomply means that only a tiny, tine, tiny select few small number of players actually knows what you mean - and of course that means that you get sick, because you are kind of an outsider, kind of an alien in an ocean filled with Plankton and Fish.

 

Not everyone knows what you know.

 

Good to see execute is listed, sad to see the sage as jedi section.

 

To me, this means that you are not interested in an Star Wars game, but rather in an Progression Game. You juat don't care about the background lore, you are only interested in the mechanics. I get the impression as if you would play ANY game as long as you can "progress through it", and you don't give a BEEEP about Lore.

 

Not only that, this is also the perfect moment to ask that third question.

 

It's now more than two years that the game exists and that it has been seen as an issue/oddity... And during these two years, not even a comment from the devs.

 

Maybe they never read the threads about it, or maybe they avoided them because they don't want to justify their choices... But in the end, I feel that if we don't ask this at a time they're forced to answer, they'll never comment about it.

And if we, players, don't take the opportunity to ask about it, especially at a moment like now when there are not too much glaring issues, the question will likely never be answered.

 

Personally, I agree to that. No other class rep has asked similar questions because no other class has this "oddity". If we never askl this, then the devs will assume that this oddity is well accepted by everyone. It's as if Yoda had never been fighting in AOTC.

 

With the buff to white damage and crits in general it's probably going to be our only viable spec. It's certainly the only one I will be attampting in yolo queue because in the event that there are two sins on the other team I'm going to be losing roughly 20-28K as they open. They should fix the insane burst on certain specs before they start *********** with the hybrids.

 

In my opinion, in the case of the Assassins, this is intended.

Assassins are meant to be "bursty".

Edited April 20, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[MidichIorian]

In my opinion, in the case of the Assassins, this is intended.

Assassins are meant to be "bursty".

That burst should come with some weakness because unlike scoupratives they're actually decent after that they've opened . The slight HP increase on the Brutalizer sets did not correlate with the increased burst. Hell, I think I actually had more HP on my bolstered back-up sage pre-2.7 than I have now. I think 10K hits is stretching it but it should definitely never go higher than that on a person in a full PvP set. I don't get why they can't simply lower the expertise bonus damage, that way it won't have an impact on PvE. Edited April 20, 2014 by MidichIorian

[Altheran]

That burst should come with some weakness because unlike scoupratives they're actually decent after that they've opened.

 

That's an old myth.

 

It used to be true, but now there's no way that a class with lacking DPS (Shadow) is more deadly than a class with at least average DPS (Operative) after their initial burst.

 

That's mathematically impossible, and that doesn't account for the possibility for the Operative to take risks and burn his energy pool to be above his normal DPS, while it's almost impossible for the Shadow as he's always going back and forth with emptying his own energy pool.

[Master-Nala]

Checking in, haven't seen many comments on recent drafts. So these are looking close to what we will submit.

 

Give me feedback.

[AdrianDmitruk]

Checking in, haven't seen many comments on recent drafts. So these are looking close to what we will submit.

 

Give me feedback.

 

In the past Laforet made a really good post comparing seer spec to disco priests in wow, specifically exposing tools that seers lack that seem vital for squishy casty healy classes in arena. Namely, the contradiction between being expected to kite and hide and requiring us to have LOS on teammates to contribute and therefore allow instant leaps/pulls to ourselves kills seer viability in arena, where the team supporting you is simply not sufficiently large to create a safe back line for you and there are no objectives to serve as distractions. (Compare to disc priests having an out-of-LoS heal). "L2Position" puts seer in a nearly inescapable paradox, especially with scoreboard clicky targeting revealing our location even through LOS once the round starts. LOS that we can't even use to heal anyone except ourselves. Other than pull (which is far more useful in huttball than arenas), we seers really lack abilities that take advantage of the positioning around which our class is supposedly balanced.

 

While a revamp of seer spec to make it more arena-friendly might well be full expansion, 3.0 material (as there is much vacuous filler in the upper third of the tree to be overhauled as well), I do wonder if the second question kind of nibbles around the edges a bit. Especially if reverting the 1.2 nerf to (a properly bugfixed version of) Conveyance+Deliverance proc remains out of the question.

 

I can expound on this a bit more Wednesday/Thursday (days off) if required, but I'm hoping you remember that post to which I refer as it was one of the best posts made in the dev-initiated sorc feedback threads.

 

For now I'm kinda burnt out on PVP, having expended all my energy on feedback trying to get corruption/seer fixed therefor, and find myself logging into the game less and PVEing more when I do. (And even on the rare occasion when I do PVP now, it certainly is no longer in seer spec.)

Edited April 22, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[MusicRider]

I guess putting big red letters on my previous posts were not enough .

[Master-Nala]

I guess putting big red letters on my previous posts were not enough .

 

I saw that, but as you saw after that there were passionate pleas not to add that.

[MusicRider]

I saw that, but as you saw after that there were passionate pleas not to add that.

 

Only one poster was against it, not sure whether that classifies as "passionate pleas" against adding it, and among my further justifications I added that I see his point of not adding it on Q2 if it has a chance of "distorting" the question. Anyway, it's your decision and no hard feelings if it is not mentioned even in the footnotes, but I think we are going to lose a good opportunity about bringing a game-breaking overall balance issue once more to the devs attention, possibly with ways that could be resolved following their previous answers.

[Ycoga]

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS AS IT CONTAINS A QUESTION THAT IMHO IS IMPORTANT AND WE OUGHT TO ASK ALSO AS SAGES/SORCS

 

It just occurred to me that there is one very big issue regarding sages/sorcs that is not being asked at all. This of a hybrid healer/dps that fulfils a dps role in the queue of solo ranked arenas. IMHO we must ask that this issue must be resolved as it is an unfair exploitation of the queue system that totally screws game balance. And this question could very easily fit within Q2 regarding the healing spec issues in pvp. A solution is a pretty easy one-liner. After default role is selected per skill points spent add one more line in the code such as:

 

if (myself.advanced_class == sage OR sorc) AND (healing trance OR innervation is in myself.list_of_abilities):

myself.queue_role = healer

 

Damn easy and damn resolves the issue without putting additional stress to queue times.

This is not a class-specific question, as it relates to queing in-game; and also it potentially affects all classes because hybrids are allowed by the skill tree system. Any changes made to the queing system would need to apply to all classes in the game.

Because of these facts, I'd ask that we don't include this as a question to the devs - as this is an opportunity to ask focused questions that are specific to the Sage class.

[Master-Nala]

Only one poster was against it, not sure whether that classifies as "passionate pleas" against adding it, and among my further justifications I added that I see his point of not adding it on Q2 if it has a chance of "distorting" the question. Anyway, it's your decision and no hard feelings if it is not mentioned even in the footnotes, but I think we are going to lose a good opportunity about bringing a game-breaking overall balance issue once more to the devs attention, possibly with ways that could be resolved following their previous answers.

 

Judgeender, Capote and Midicholorian all made posts against it, although perhaps Capote was the only one passionately against it. Just above Ycoga has argued against it. I don't really see that there is anywhere near a consensus that we address this in our questions. I think the hoards of 'nerf Sorc' people will champion this cause well enough.

[judgeender]

I previously responded to the hybrid issue. I don't believe it is worth a question. First, as previously noted, Bioware has responded (though perhaps not directly with respect to this particular hybrid) to the issue regarding hybrids, healing hybrids and arenas. I don't believe we will get more. Second, I believe our job is to point out issues or concerns for the class. Areas where the class is underperforming, not performing as expected or as smoothly as expected or where there are just general concerns/problems with gameplay.

 

Many people do not have a problem with playing hybrid specs, I play a hybrid spec at times. They can be fun. There is nothing inherently wrong with hybrid specs. If a hybrid makes a full spec obsolete or a full spec underperforms, that is where we should be focused. Let Bioware fix the full specs and less people will want to use hybrids. Our only concern in raising these issues is to try to make sure that solutions don't create overpowered hybrids that eclipse full specs. If a Hybrid is truly overpowered, I'm fairly confident it will be nerfed. But that hybrid doesn't seem that overpowered, it trades some dps for some healing.