A feature that could counter VOIP premades: Broadcast Target

[DEATHICIDE]

Now that you can see target of target in GSF, it's very easy to prove that the low caliber premades on VOIP use the sole strategy of all sticking together while constantly targeting the same target as a group, making sure it's always multiples of them VS one lone ship.

 

I think we can all agree that this is not sportsmanlike in the least.

 

None of the "pro" premades out there are guilty of this(or so I would like to believe), so please don't interpret this the wrong way, as the very thought of it reeks of weakness, and any vet worth their salt would sneer at the suggestion, yet all the bad pilots who want to gain an unfair advantage out there use this sole tactic to do so, knowing that the solo player has no means to counter this tactic.

These are the groups who give premade a bad rap, and I'd like to NERF them.

That in mind, I'm hoping the VOIP using aces out there will back this idea:

 

What if we had a "broadcast target" feature?

 

A button you could press that would cause "__Player name__ is currently targeting XXX" to appear in the chat?

 

That would lessen the effectiveness of the gank tactic, and force people to stop using VOIP as a means for ganging up on solo players.

It would encourage real strategy and tactics if a PUG could simply fight fire with fire.

 

I would like to see "Broadcast Target", or something similar go live.

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 11, 2014 by DEATHICIDE

[-Streven-]

This thread is not even worth a response. Calling teamwork unsportsmanlike? Really? If you aren't teaming up against the opposition with your teammates then you're doing it wrong. You don't need VOIP to coordinate kills. Just pay attention.

 

p.s. I que solo.

Edited February 11, 2014 by -Streven-

[Zharik]

This thread is not even worth a response. Calling teamwork unsportsmanlike? Really? If you aren't teaming up against the opposition with your teammates then you're doing it wrong. You don't need VOIP to coordinate kills. Just pay attention.

 

Agree. Granted I would like to be able to mark a target, but whatever.

[DEATHICIDE]

This thread is not even worth a response. Calling teamwork unsportsmanlike? Really? If you aren't teaming up against the opposition with your teammates then you're doing it wrong. You don't need VOIP to coordinate kills. Just pay attention.

 

Teamwork and taking advantage are two different things.

 

If SWTOR had built in VOIP this would not be an issue, but SWTOR does not, and telling everyone to get in their own VOIP team to counter gankers is not a real solution.

 

I don't see why you would be opposed to a player being able to broadcast who they are targeting, or perhaps who is targeting them, unless you are afraid of the consequences?

 

Is that not helping teamwork???

 

Sounds like you want those with 3rd party VOIP to be the only ones capable of this, and want it to stay that way to me.

 

Thanks though, solo player.

Edited February 11, 2014 by DEATHICIDE

[Ulaenyth]

The ability to broadcast targets would be nice.

 

On another note however ganging up on targets and using co-ordination is fair play I suppose you are the kind of person in league of legends that yells at the jungle and mid for doing a 2man gank against you up top lane or something as well? Teamwork is vital I've seen Pub GSF games were we have worked as a team and communicated and won against premades and even against the all bomber camp mid strat thanks to a little bit of communication.

 

In short this feature would be nice but the OP didn't need to bash premades for having co-ordination and taking advantages

[Armonddd]

Teamwork and taking advantage are two different things.

 

Welcome to PvP?

 

I mean, I definitely want an in-game VOIP, but not because "oh noes da premades".

[silvershadows]

The funny thing is, most of the time when my guildies and I are in our premades and in voice chat, we aren't calling out targets, or really doing much other than chatting and laughing as we go around and kill everyone.

 

You hear the occasional "x guy is on your six, man", but that's the extent of our target calling. And yet, we manage to win...

[Sangrar]

I don't know, I usually just use chat and it works fine, even beat what I knew was a premade (it was a same faction match and I recognized the team from fleet chat because they were advertising on fleet) , but I do like how people are looking for alternatives to VIOP, because while I do agree with it in theory, in practice, however, considering how I have been even in winning matches where an idiot on our own team kept calling us noobs and berating us, I know a VOIP system would be abused (imagine if fleet had that, chaos!), so I am open to the idea, but if its a broadcast system maybe take it further than just targets, targets are not all that's needed for a coordinated team.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I would recommend adding something like the commo rose from the Battlefield franchise.

 

Press a button and it opens up a menu of preset communications, select which one you want ("I need a medic!" for example), click and it gets broadcast to all allies in the immediate area along with a minimap icon indicating who is making the request and what is being requested (so for example if multiple people are calling for medics you'll see medic symbols on their icons on the minimap if you're a medic).

 

Just like in Battlefield they could have one for team and one for squad. That way you could communicate with your squad to focus on person X or send a request to your whole team for back up.

 

It's really easy and quick to use and the devs could probably add in the most essential communications that would eliminate the need to use chat except for typing out strategies and such.

[DEATHICIDE]

The funny thing is, most of the time when my guildies and I are in our premades and in voice chat, we aren't calling out targets, or really doing much other than chatting and laughing as we go around and kill everyone.

 

You hear the occasional "x guy is on your six, man", but that's the extent of our target calling. And yet, we manage to win...

 

I am with you %100.

 

That is how me and mine do it.

 

For those who haven't read my QQ garbage before, I do not make these suggestions because I hate VOIPers or because I hate premades, I do it because whenever you ask a player why they quit playing GSF, you get this:

 

"I am sick of constantly fighting an entire squad in leveled ships off of my back, maybe if I had a mastered ship I could stand some sort of a chance, but all that happens is I get swarmed and farmed before I can even start to think about capping something, so screw it, im out."

 

Having met the challenge of stock VS mastered ships with my peers, I know that stock ships are fully capable of getting on the top of the board, so that can't be the problem here.

 

That leaves the groups who do take advantage of the new players, because for them a mastered ship is not enough when they are no good at flying, they need to get a team of 6 and focus fire those newbies.

 

Everyone who I group with on a regular basis refuses to "play cheap" if you will, and only use VOIP like you would imagine "I need some backup on C" " Lots in the mid zone right now" "Tonnes of mines at B" Etc.

 

The problem is bad pilots know they can get together, one of them can buy a VOIP room then they can: "Everyone On john" "Now everyone target luke" "Bill is flying near me everyone target him next" on the fly, so piles of them do just that, and the newbies have no hope of returning the favor, with very little chance of figuring out what is even going on.

 

Finally, the newbies give GSF a thumbs down, never play again, and we will have to wait 30 minutes for the queue to pop because nobody is interested in being the victim of a gank fest.

 

I just want to see a mechanic that ALL players can use to level this out.

 

I don't need to have "Broadcast Target", nor am I sure that is the superior option here, but the game needs SOMETHING to counter this problem if SWTOR is not going to implement VOIP.

 

Broadcast Target is just the best I can come up with ATM.

 

Maybe something could flash around the player's ship if multiple opponents all target it at the same time?

 

Anything useful to equip the player with, would be, well... useful.

[DEATHICIDE]

I would recommend adding something like the commo rose from the Battlefield franchise.

 

Press a button and it opens up a menu of preset communications, select which one you want ("I need a medic!" for example), click and it gets broadcast to all allies in the immediate area along with a minimap icon indicating who is making the request and what is being requested (so for example if multiple people are calling for medics you'll see medic symbols on their icons on the minimap if you're a medic).

 

Just like in Battlefield they could have one for team and one for squad. That way you could communicate with your squad to focus on person X or send a request to your whole team for back up.

 

It's really easy and quick to use and the devs could probably add in the most essential communications that would eliminate the need to use chat except for typing out strategies and such.

 

That is a great idea!

[mighty_joe]

since i am one of those newbies who get farmed every once in a while, i got to say i don't see your point.

 

calling out targets and focussing them as a group seems a legit strategy to me. since i have very limited experience with pvp games i have to assume that all strategies that don't involve exploits or bug-using are OK. the only thing that prevents me from doing the same is not knowing anyone who plays GSF, since i am only at it for a week. but the remedy for that is getting to know people...

 

you have to ask people what they expect of a pvp game. even if q's were split up, even if there was ingame comms or whatever. with my current experience i would still suck, premades were still much better and I would get creamed every now and then. this IS the game we are playing

Edited February 11, 2014 by mighty_joe

[silvershadows]

Really I wouldn't see an issue with them adding VOIP to SWTOR - yes it would be abused by jerks - but all they'd have to do is make it so you could opt out of it.

[dancezwithnubz]

the "attack in a pack" thing is simply a byproduct of A: sticking together and B: hitting TAB when your current target is destroyed.

 

i'd like to see A: a 'Wingman" feature (you designate yourself as 'wingman' to a teammate. you get a second 'targeting window' showing stats on your "lead" and a green arrow on the HUD pointing at your 'lead') and B: built in VOIP (opt-in with ignore functions etc)

[Zoom_VI]

Calling focus targets in VoiP is a terrible strategy. First rule of dogfighting is never have multiple craft all attack the same target, because if everyone is attacking the same target, then who is covering your rear? I can't begin the number of times I've seen three+ or so enemies all chasing one poor guy, and I'll run in and wipe two or more of them before any of them even realize I'm there. Edited February 11, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Elly_Dawn]

target of target is already in the game, if you don't know where, i laugh at you cause it's so obvious a location for it...

[DEATHICIDE]

target of target is already in the game, if you don't know where, i laugh at you cause it's so obvious a location for it...

 

I said broadcast target, not target of target.

Target of target is how you can spot gankers. This is not a tab target thing, go around on servers that are not POT5, join several different VOIP GSF squads and watch the magic.

 

As to *************** being a terrible strategy, no ship can take shots from multiple other ships and survive in GSF, everyone knows that. This is not WW2, and there is no need to watch your rear when you have no stealth class, an exhaustion zone and designated/or highly visible spawn points.

You just hang back, squad leader picks out a target, everyone dogpiles on it then waits for the next target call.

 

How half of you people don't understand this or think it's just normal baffles me.

 

SWTOR will ban you for using a texting macro so you can't "cheat" with it, yet the whole abusing VOIP in space earns you a pat on the back around here and a "team player" title.

I seriously don't get it.

 

The problem here isn't ace premades vs ace premades, its farmer premades on VOIP focus firing unwitting newbies who can only counter VIA a lengthy shift+Z + typing + another shift+Z and by that time they are a pile of rubble.

 

There needs to be a feature for a message broadcast, or some sort of indicator to your teammates that an ally is being focus fired, OR there needs to be in game VOIP.

 

These additions will only encourage and support team tactics, if that is not true, then let's hear some real reasons as to why this would be a bad thing, other than hurting your ability to reap crops with your guild on the unwitting.

[Zoom_VI]

As to *************** being a terrible strategy, no ship can take shots from multiple other ships and survive in GSF, everyone knows that. This is not WW2, and there is no need to watch your rear when you have no stealth class, an exhaustion zone and designated/or highly visible spawn points.

You just hang back, squad leader picks out a target, everyone dogpiles on it then waits for the next target call.

1) if George, Mary Sue, and Fred are all ganging up on Bob, then somewhere else Phil, John, and Sam are free to gang up on Jane, because Mary Sue and Fred where not there to keep John and Sam occupied.

 

2) lets say there are five people for each team all fighting in the same area. Now team A is focusing targets, team B is having their members attack separate targets. Now the thing is it is impossible to both effectively attack a target and be evasive at the same time.

Now when team A goes to gang up on Bob, the four remaining people of Bob's team all line up behind all but one of team A and attack. Now each of team A have a decision: continue the attack or go evasive.

Continuing the attack might kill Bob faster, but it will get you killed, since your attack left you vulnerable.

Going Evasive means each of A survives but they both failed to focus fire and now its turn into five 1v1 that will determine the winner.

However Evasive is the better choice, because even though continuing the attack will kill Bob. Team B will probably lose 2 or 3 of their own in the process.

 

3) Efficiency: If Fred, Mary-Sue, George, and Jane all gang up on Bob, Bob will most likely die from Fred just as Mary Sue, George and Jane are getting their crosshairs lined up. Thus George, Jane and Mary Sue just wasted several seconds lining up on target that in the end died without any help from them. Time that could've been spent finding Phil, John, and Sam, and putting a stop to whatever mischief they have been getting into in the mean time.

 

Don't be like Fred, Mary Sue, Jane, and George.

 

SWTOR will ban you for using a texting macro so you can't "cheat" with it, yet the whole abusing VOIP in space earns you a pat on the back around here and a "team player" title.

I seriously don't get it.

In all the dev posts, blogs, in-game documentation, website documentation, npc vendors, etc. that I have seen, I am yet to encounter anything that even hints at getting a title for using VoiP software, in fact I don't think SWTOR is even capable of telling if I'm using a VoiP software.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[DEATHICIDE]

1) if George, Mary Sue, and Fred are all ganging up on Bob, then somewhere else Phil, John, and Sam are free to gang up on Jane, because Mary Sue and Fred where not there to keep John and Sam occupied.

 

2) lets say there are five people for each team all fighting in the same area. Now team A is focusing targets, team B is having their members attack separate targets. Now the thing is it is impossible to both effectively attack a target and be evasive at the same time.

Now when team A goes to gang up on Bob, the four remaining people of Bob's team all line up behind all but one of team A and attack. Now each of team A have a decision: continue the attack or go evasive.

Continuing the attack might kill Bob faster, but it will get you killed, since your attack left you vulnerable.

Going Evasive means each of A survives but they both failed to focus fire and now its turn into five 1v1 that will determine the winner.

However Evasive is the better choice, because even though continuing the attack will kill Bob. Team B will probably lose 2 or 3 of their own in the process.

 

3) Efficiency: If Fred, Mary-Sue, George, and Jane all gang up on Bob, Bob will most likely die from Fred just as Mary Sue, George and Jane are getting their crosshairs lined up. Thus George, Jane and Mary Sue just wasted several seconds lining up on target that in the end died without any help from them. Time that could've been spent finding Phil, John, and Sam, and putting a stop to whatever mischief they have been getting into in the mean time.

 

Don't be like Fred, Mary Sue, Jane, and George.

 

 

In all the dev posts, blogs, in-game documentation, website documentation, npc vendors, etc. that I have seen, I am yet to encounter anything that even hints at getting a title for using VoiP software, in fact I don't think SWTOR is even capable of telling if I'm using a VoiP software.

 

To your 2nd quote:

That was me being sarcastic, there is obviously no actual title, lol.

 

Your first:

 

That would be possible if the non-VOIP squad had a way of quickly informing teammates of the situation, and without VOIP, and Shift + Z not being an option, that is the entire problem/point of why we need something like a broadcast target feature.

 

Also note in GSF friendly fire does not exist, so there is no danger in shooting across a teammate.

Also due to ships taking several hits, if only one or two ships got a few shots in on a team while they gang up, that is negligible, as opposed to real life where one hit likely means you are going down.

 

Again, this is not to help ace vs ace guild matches, it is to help balance PUG matches by giving players communication tools they can use to rival the communication offered by VOIP.

 

In order to counter the strategy and do what you have outlined you have to A: be one crazy fast typer and in a situation where coasting your ship while you peel off on the keyboard is survivable(good luck there)

or B: Psychic.

 

I would like a C: option to be added, if not in game VOIP.

Edited February 11, 2014 by DEATHICIDE

[Zoom_VI]

Attacking separate targets is not even remotely difficult without VoiP. Seriously I look around (crazy I know) see that there are three guys off chasing one friendly, and I go up and start shooting them down one after another. People so often get caught in trying to get that last hit on the guy, that I can sit right up behind them and nuke them down in 2 seconds and then go to the next guy.

 

The only real advantage that VoiP brings is that it reduces the need for members to actually have to yaknow pay attention to their surroundings. Unfortunately most pugs suffer from extreme tunnel vision.

[CaliJoe]

Have you tried pushing the " C " key on your keyboard? It points the camera *to* who is shooting you or who you have targeted. VOIP in GSF would be nice, but in all honesty I'd much rather just listen to the music than some random person with whatever is going on in the background with their mic on too hot. For PUGS for me, it would be a major distraction half the time.

 

I don't know how much or little you know of WWII dogfight tactics, but they generally apply to GSF. I have spotted an attacker plus 1 or 2 wingmen on someone often enough to remember it. The poor victim can either dodge or attempt to fly back to near friendlies which will more than happy assist.

 

Only 1 round in 5 rounds do I ever get stock PUGs vs Maxed VOIP team(4) + extras. The 75% of the time, it's actually kinda fun! I still get a kick out of people firing off their lasers outside of range. Gotta learn somewhere.

 

Broadcasting target of target in chat just clutters the chat box even more.

[DEATHICIDE]

Have you tried pushing the " C " key on your keyboard? It points the camera *to* who is shooting you or who you have targeted. VOIP in GSF would be nice, but in all honesty I'd much rather just listen to the music than some random person with whatever is going on in the background with their mic on too hot. For PUGS for me, it would be a major distraction half the time.

 

I don't know how much or little you know of WWII dogfight tactics, but they generally apply to GSF. I have spotted an attacker plus 1 or 2 wingmen on someone often enough to remember it. The poor victim can either dodge or attempt to fly back to near friendlies which will more than happy assist.

 

Only 1 round in 5 rounds do I ever get stock PUGs vs Maxed VOIP team(4) + extras. The 75% of the time, it's actually kinda fun! I still get a kick out of people firing off their lasers outside of range. Gotta learn somewhere.

 

Broadcasting target of target in chat just clutters the chat box even more.

 

I think you missed the point of the thread.

 

As for in game VOIP, it does not have to, nor should it be like X-Box.

 

It should also transcend OPS, flashpoints, PvP and GSF.

Possibly a window you can toggle open equipped with all the standard features like mute player etc for PvP, and for PvE, maybe something like "Jediluke has invited you to join a VOIP room".

 

Regardless, I doubt we will see a SWTOR VOIP, so alternative communication VIA hotkeys would be great.

Your chat window is only clogged with "X player was killed by X player" so I don't see why the addition of useful tactical information would be a bother.