All the healers that DPS in FP

[Aharx]

I need to post again to share an experience I had last night. I know that the Czerka FP's have recently been added to the Tactical FP category but I still prefer the idea of an ideal group. Even for the simple FP's. Anyway... last night I queue'd for Czerka Core Meltdown since I needed it for the weekly. We ended up with myself (Scoundrel healer) and three DPS. A Gunslinger, Knight, and Commando or something like that. I ended up 'tanking' the FP which turned out to be quite fun! I was probably grabbing agro considering I was healing myself and dishing out decent enough DPS (judging by the gear I had compared to the others it wouldn't surprise me if my overall DPS was better then those spec'd for it lol). It was rather entertaining being on the other end of things this time around. Good times to be had swapping roles. Nice work BW.

[Aharx]

"Suppose", no, not at all. Healer isn't "suppose" to do anything but heal and pre-pull CC, SOMETIMES.

 

That said, yeah, I will kill the non-elites and stuns and CCs and DPS my head off. If a DPS dies, so be it. It won't be in a big pull or some accidental extra pull, but in a fight when they ignore mechanics and stand in stuff that hurts "cuz the healer can heal through it". Yeah, I can... once or twice. More than that and i'm starving for resources. Stress me out and you'll have a repair bill.

 

This. There was one instance... and literally only the one time in the past 15 or so years of playing MMO's... where someone said to me "Stop healing and fire your weapon". I was baffled by this remark so what did I do? I promptly stopped healing this particular player and he ended up dying. I don't imagine he was too happy but he didn't say anything more after that once I started healing again.

 

To be honest the only times where I really contribute any form of DPS is in story mode instances. Sometimes level 50 HM FP's I'll do a little more DPS since they're generally easier then level 55 FP's.

[Heal-To-Full]

Stop!!!

No.

 

If you're a healer and you don't DPS in flashpoints, in warzones and even in ops, either you're what they call a "bad" or your team sucks terribly.

 

A good healer should keep everyone alive and do damage themselves when strong heals are not necessary. Everyone has a self-heal, use it between fights. You will clear instances faster this way, resulting in a higher reward per hour rate.

 

Sticking to heals only at all times WILL result in failure to clear high-end content.

 

 

This is also why progression DPS is a much harder job than it seems to a FP player: it's important to not only do some damage and not die, but to do as much damage as possible, when it's most needed, and take as little damage as you can so the healers aren't stuck saving your butt. These are conflicting goals, both for healers and for DPS, and good judgment on what is the best tradeoff is what separates acceptable heals and DPS from the best.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[Aharx]

Healing is boring. I do have an dedicated Sage healer (healing tree, level 43 now), but it is boring.

Doing damage is so much more fun. I think I'll train him in the way of the Telekinesis instead.

 

It definitely isn't for everyone. The majority of people like to DPS. I don't know why. It is typically the 'easiest' role in MMO's. I have preferred to take on the tanking role and healing role in games that I play though. My observation is that healing is quite fun in this game. Especially when you're doing Ops or HM FP's. Maybe I just like the idea of being relied on. Much like the tanks in this game I assume. Very seldom do I see a wipe from a DPS dropping mid-fight though. That isn't to say DPS cannot be fun. Don't get me wrong. I've played my share of DPS in games and loved it. I just prefer more... I don't know how to say it. I feel like I'm giving more to a group by healing. That's all. Ha ha.

[Jamalzero]

Healing is boring. I do have an dedicated Sage healer (healing tree, level 43 now), but it is boring.

Doing damage is so much more fun. I think I'll train him in the way of the Telekinesis instead.

 

I agree Sage/Sorc healing is boring because you have to play that healing class with fines… your heals take up way too much force and have a long channeling or cast time. the small heal heals roughly 13% and the big one heals at 17% but they have a 1.5 and 2.5 cast and both heals take up roughly 50 force…now you could spec into something to reduce the force cost by a certain percent BUT in no way should a sorc/sage healer be DPS'n… I wouldn't trust a sorc/sage heal the only insta heals they have are the dot (which doest have any burst heal) the channel which only ticks 3 times and finally the puddle… now the puddle i do like thats probably the only thing i like about the sage/sorc healing class HOWEVER 8/10 sorc/sage healers don't ever put that damn thing down (reasons why i don't trust them…) not even in raids I've seen them put the puddle down on the tank or a group of dos they normally place it on themselves (which is stupid) the only real use i could see them doing that is if they are low on force and they: Bubble > Innerverate (to get 3 stacks) > insta-puddle > consume until force is at 100% and the dot, AOE, and bubble will heal them up to 100% or a safe amount. but sorc/sage healing forces you to pick and choose when to heal…thats why i chose Operative/Scoundrel heals you can spam heals all day and never run out of energy.

 

Having said that……

 

Exactly, a good healer knows when to heal and when to dps.

haha I would only do this if my allies are teetering between 100% and 98% and i have 3 stacks of my TA I don't normally DPS when I'm pugging, Im pretty well known on my server as a good healer and thats the reason why i spoil everyone by keeping them at 100% hell I even let DPS pull mobs and sometimes bosses because i get bored but in no way am i gonna DPS, if **** hits the fan and we all take a massive hit and I'm channeling OS, Snipe, or I'm in the middle of shiv, backstab, placing explosive probe and i need to back up or spam heal 4-8 people no…… I'm sorry I don't even do that with guildies… there will always be that guy that will stand in a red circle or take a massive hit and drop to 15% in an instant… if you're in your, "I can heal and DPS at the same time derp" mode that DPS/Tank/Healer just died and you are to blame… yes, most of that death was his fault for standing in stupid but you are also at fault because had you been doing your job he would've lived...

 

as an operative healer, I don't heal if someone is 80% health or higher.

 

Maybe, just maybe i can agree with you here… If I'm with a group that i know well and the FP is easy ill either do one of 2 things: (1) run circles around the tank as I'm healing keeping him above 88% or (2) place every hot and burst heal I've got and DPS but only if I've just capped everyone off at 100%… I don't need a massive hit to surprise me or a death on my fault.

 

I keep HOTs on them and let those do their job. It is extremely inefficient to keep everyone at 100% health the entire time.

 

really? Hots aren't enough to keep a group above 80% not even in 72s. Bonus boss on any HM55 will drop that to 40% in an instant no problem with just your hots… i hope you're also using diagnostics scan and surgical probe (I.e. the free heals)

 

Also, I have a melee attack that builds TA, so I will use that as often as I can so that I have better burst healing abilities for when they are needed.

 

Im sorry what????? if you have your hots on everyone why would you need to use shiv????? Start combat in stealth and pop out using Reproductive nano tech…auto 3 stacks of TA and just keep probes on the raid/group and spam diagnostics scan and you'll never run out of TA you never need to use shiv…. its pointless lol do your job and stop making people say where are my heals… If you were my healer and i saw you attacking and my HP was lower than 60% id kick as soon as the fight was over and ask a guild member to take your spot lol

 

 

Most DPS don't realize a healer's job is to keep everyone from dying, not to keep everyone at 100% health the entire time. Overhealing is a waste of energy.

 

Most DPS and Tanks that have been around for a while DO infact understand what the HEALER'S ROLE is… if everyone is at 100% or relatively close to it they aren't going to surprisingly die if they didn't move out of the way in time for a massive hit. Great example Czerka Labs, when the boss is at 30% or lower he does a red AOE attack if you're in that circle it hits you for about 25k (if you're in 69s) or 20k-18k (if you're in 72s). If you're DPS'n and a sniper lags one time and that AOE is under his/her feet well that sniper probably just died because he normally follows that RPG missile with a grenade lol

 

Most DPS don't realize a healer's job is to keep everyone from dying, not to keep everyone at 100% health the entire time. Overhealing is a waste of energy.

 

please explain to me how an operative wastes energy "over healing"…. if i recall, Kolto probe costs 9 energy… Surgical probe costs 1 TA and no energy… Diagnostics scan costs no energy and its a channeled heal (mine does between 1k-1.5k (if crits) on each tick)… Kolto injection costs 25 energy <---the oh $hit heal i hardly have to use since i keep my team teetering at 100%-98% and Reproductive nano tech costs 15 energy…explain to me how you run out of energy…as an operative healer??? unless you actually use kolto….infusion i think its called (which is a wasted ability in my eyes I do fine with out it on my bars) or spamming injection i don't see an Operative running out of energy…

 

and I don't even know what the little energy probe thing is called…the one that you use to get more energy… thats how little i have to use the thing on any of my agents/smugglers I'm pretty good at energy management as the agent/smuggler class and never have to touch that ability UNLESS I'm Engineering/Sabotage spec Slinger/Sniper in PvP burst DPS'n a Op/Scoundrel healer.

 

now i start in stealth and pop out as soon as combat starts giving me 2 TA… From there i Kolto probe everyone (you're a bad healer if you don't) then i target tank and hit nano tech and spam diagnostics scan until the nano tech ends, refresh probes and hit Surgical probe on tank (if needed) until I (a) run out of TA (which i don't)or (b) nano tech is off CD which i refresh and repeat my rotation…. I use little to no energy at all when doing this and i love having a sorc/sage healer in my raid group so when he gets low on force ill spam heal him and let him use consume tip he's at 100% so he doesn't have to stop healing the tank…

 

so WHILE I'm still healing the whole raid i still have time to focus heal a consume spamming sorc to get full force and I never feel as if I'm solo healing when I'm in a raid group because (a) no one dies unless the other healer or 3 healer are DPS'n (which i will call them out on and watch eh whole raid get pissy and or kick them) and (b) I never run out of energy spam healing and keeping my team mates at 100%.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Jamalzero

[Cidanel]

really? Hots aren't enough to keep a group above 80% not even in 72s. Bonus boss on any HM55 will drop that to 40% in an instant no problem with just your hots… i hope you're also using diagnostics scan and surgical probe (I.e. the free heals)

 

Um, what? I never once said to only HoT to get to 80%. I said use only HoTs to get from 80-100%. If a DPS takes the occational hit, I throw a HoT on them and let it work. I leave the tank at 80% between packs and let a HoT work on it. I can easily burst heal a big chunk of a tanks health in a few seconds if need be.

 

Im sorry what????? if you have your hots on everyone why would you need to use shiv????? Start combat in stealth and pop out using Reproductive nano tech…auto 3 stacks of TA and just keep probes on the raid/group and spam diagnostics scan and you'll never run out of TA you never need to use shiv…. its pointless lol do your job and stop making people say where are my heals… If you were my healer and i saw you attacking and my HP was lower than 60% id kick as soon as the fight was over and ask a guild member to take your spot lol

 

Are you sure you are known as a good healer? Shiv is a free extra stack of TA. Why wouldn't you probe to throw that extra free energy heal and shiv to gain back that stack of TA every time it pops? If you don't use it, you are flat out wasting a virtually free heal. My goal is to keep people alive, not to keep them at 100% health. A healer who keeps everyone at 100% is doing so much overhealing that they are a waste in a group.

 

Most DPS and Tanks that have been around for a while DO infact understand what the HEALER'S ROLE is… if everyone is at 100% or relatively close to it they aren't going to surprisingly die if they didn't move out of the way in time for a massive hit. Great example Czerka Labs, when the boss is at 30% or lower he does a red AOE attack if you're in that circle it hits you for about 25k (if you're in 69s) or 20k-18k (if you're in 72s). If you're DPS'n and a sniper lags one time and that AOE is under his/her feet well that sniper probably just died because he normally follows that RPG missile with a grenade lol

 

Obviously every fight is different. I thought that went without saying...

 

please explain to me how an operative wastes energy "over healing"…. if i recall, Kolto probe costs 9 energy… Surgical probe costs 1 TA and no energy… Diagnostics scan costs no energy and its a channeled heal (mine does between 1k-1.5k (if crits) on each tick)… Kolto injection costs 25 energy <---the oh $hit heal i hardly have to use since i keep my team teetering at 100%-98% and Reproductive nano tech costs 15 energy…explain to me how you run out of energy…as an operative healer??? unless you actually use kolto….infusion i think its called (which is a wasted ability in my eyes I do fine with out it on my bars) or spamming injection i don't see an Operative running out of energy…

 

and I don't even know what the little energy probe thing is called…the one that you use to get more energy… thats how little i have to use the thing on any of my agents/smugglers I'm pretty good at energy management as the agent/smuggler class and never have to touch that ability UNLESS I'm Engineering/Sabotage spec Slinger/Sniper in PvP burst DPS'n a Op/Scoundrel healer.

 

now i start in stealth and pop out as soon as combat starts giving me 2 TA… From there i Kolto probe everyone (you're a bad healer if you don't) then i target tank and hit nano tech and spam diagnostics scan until the nano tech ends, refresh probes and hit Surgical probe on tank (if needed) until I (a) run out of TA (which i don't)or (b) nano tech is off CD which i refresh and repeat my rotation…. I use little to no energy at all when doing this and i love having a sorc/sage healer in my raid group so when he gets low on force ill spam heal him and let him use consume tip he's at 100% so he doesn't have to stop healing the tank…

 

so WHILE I'm still healing the whole raid i still have time to focus heal a consume spamming sorc to get full force and I never feel as if I'm solo healing when I'm in a raid group because (a) no one dies unless the other healer or 3 healer are DPS'n (which i will call them out on and watch eh whole raid get pissy and or kick them) and (b) I never run out of energy spam healing and keeping my team mates at 100%.

 

 

I am glad you will never heal for my tank toon if this is how you think. Given an operative has so many HoTs up at once, anyone near 100% health will be healed by them at 100% health (wasted energy). I don't run out of energy. Healers like you waste energy on overhealing that could be used DPSing. Why would you spend so much effort keeping everyone at 100% (and overhealing in the process) when you could very easily keep everyone alive with lower health, not overheal, and get some damage in to make the run go faster?

 

Any healer who would vote to kick another healer for DPSing (while they are still keeping their guys alive) is flat out a bad player. Again, it isn't about running out of energy. It is about not being that guy who spam overheals instead of using that energy actually helping a mob die faster. Having the highest HPS isn't the goal in a run (even though it sounds like that is your goal). Keeping everyone alive while taking down mobs as fast as possible is the goal.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Cidanel

[Heal-To-Full]

Every fight is indeed different. Sometimes you need to keep everyone at 100%. Other times you can, because damage phases come in late and you won't shorten the fight by helping. And other times you shouldn't.

 

When I first started out, on my first DPS and first toon, I was often annoyed at healers that would let our health bars drop low and thought they were doing a poor job. Then I leveled a tank and a healer and I started to understand how much easier it is to manage someone else's health than your own. I ran with server's best healers and learned to trust them to know what they're doing; that if they have my health at 10k, it's because there aren't 10k attacks about to come, and it's because they can keep me alive with my hp at that level.

 

 

 

As a tank, it's actually annoying when healers focus on me too heavily. If I'm at 40% and it's a flashpoint, not a 16m HM, then no, it doesn't mean I'm about to die. It means the brawl just started and I'm about to start using the cheapest of my many cooldowns, and that I have an easy 30 seconds I can last with no heals at all, then pop my reusable medpac and have another 10. And then, if our DPS failed to take down the adds, or the healer valiantly healed me instead of themselves, or if the boss enrages, then I'm going to die.

 

I actually had to instruct pug healers that I'm not made of glass and, unless if I'm dropping to teens % or specifically asking for a heal, they shouldn't bother with more than HoTs on trash fights and help take the mobs down instead. Healers (except mercs) actually are made of glass and if they don't have good alts, they can be prone to assuming everyone else is too.

 

Keeping people, including tanks, at too high a hp % at all times is a waste. Some cooldowns come on more than once a minute, they're meant to be used, a lot, and there's a lot of times when healers can do something else - top up the DPS, top up one another, regen their energy and TA, help with the adds, and get ready for when they're really called for.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[mikebevo]

As a tank, it's actually annoying when healers focus on me too heavily. If I'm at 40% and it's a flashpoint, not a 16m HM, then no, it doesn't mean I'm about to die. It means the brawl just started and I'm about to start using the cheapest of my many cooldowns, and that I have an easy 30 seconds I can last with no heals at all, then pop my reusable medpac and have another 10. And then, if our DPS failed to take down the adds, or the healer valiantly healed me instead of themselves, or if the boss enrages, then I'm going to die.

You're correct every fight is different, but every group is different too.

 

There is a huge difference in healing a group you know, in a fight you know than healing a PUG group of unknows in a fight you know. Now if I don't know a fight I will overheal the hell out of it be it in a pug or with guild or friends. Everyone will be at 100% the entire fight, since I don't know the fight or when AoEs damage will go out and my group does not know how to avoid the avoidable damage. That does not mean I can't keep DoTs up and throw out some dps, it just means I am watching health bars the entire time, plus I don't care about overhealing. As long as I have energy and still throw out dps, overhealing mean nothing.

 

Now in a PUG, I have no clue about the tank. While in guild runs I have gotten use to the different tanks, I know when they use cooldown, I have no clue if the PUG tank even knows what a defensive cooldown is and I have seen many that didn't have a clue. I too keep PUGs at 100%, not because I don't know how to heal, but because I don't know these people or their skill. Now if I get in there and find the are skilled, then I will do more and more DPS as the FP or Operation continues. If I get in there and they are taking forever and a day, I will do more DPS, if I get there and they stand in AOEs and don't have a clue waht for defensive cooldowns are for, well I will continue to overheal the instances. To me the name of the game is to win, I don't care how we do it, I will change my playstyle based on the group to win.

 

To me there is no one right way to play, I try to play my role to fit my group and whatever instance we are doing. I was taught you try to promote your groups strenghts and limit the groups exposure to its weakness while doing what you can to make everyones role easier.

 

Healers (except mercs) actually are made of glass and if they don't have good alts, they can be prone to assuming everyone else is too.

What? You have not meet my Sawbones, who once tanked SOA under a pillar or my sage or sorcerer who leveled almost all Heroics including Heroic 4 solo.

 

Now at launch leveling my sawbones in my first character in my first MMO, I would have agreed with you about her being made of glass, she died more times than I can count, but my sage died 5 times leveling (3 of those were falling off stuff) and my 27 level sorcerer has died twice (both times on Heroic 4 solo on Tatooine). All the healing class have very good defensive cooldowns, CCs, and also heals, so they are all very survivable in PvE. Provided you gear them properly.

 

Sawbones doesn't even die often now even in NiM Operations....disappearing act for the lower repair bills when they yell wipe.

 

PS: you start telling me when to heal you, you have already lost because I will not tell a tank or dps how to do there role, unless they ask, I am not asking. My role is to heal and I will keep you healed the way I see fit. You want to decide when you are healed, play your healer instead of your tank.

Edited February 13, 2014 by mikebevo

[Heal-To-Full]

Now in a PUG, I have no clue about the tank. While in guild runs I have gotten use to the different tanks, I know when they use cooldown ...

PS: you start telling me when to heal you, you have already lost because I will not tell a tank or dps how to do there role

Have you read my post or just skimmed across with a few assumptions?

Since if you have, you're contradicting yourself.

 

It's exactly because of this that a tank - who, especially in a flashpoint, traditionally leads the group, so telling people what to do is part of his job - should tell healers if he needs less heals.

(Strictly speaking also if he needs more heals, but everyone's always asking for more heals, so that's the default assumption already).

 

It's exactly because different tanks work in different ways that they can and damn sure should inform a healer about it. "I'm stacking DCDs at 30%, if you see me in 30%-50% range, don't worry yet, you have 15 seconds or so, keep DPS and yourself alive. If I'm under 25%, it's getting bad." That's all.

And it matters. Big damage tends to come in waves, losing a DPS is preferable to losing the tank, so a healer needs to know when to save everyone and when the tank.

 

And if not? I've had pug healers fail the fight this way. Typical situation, big damage on an undergeared/etc group, health bars drop to teens %, the healer panics and frantically stacks everything on the tank. WRONG MOVE. The DPS then die and adds eat both the tank and the healer. Seen it, been there. Healers let the DPS or even themselves die "saving" my tank when he was completely comfortable with cooldowns and a medpac ready and waiting. A sacrifice far more pointless than it is noble.

 

 

What? You have not meet my Sawbones, who once tanked SOA under a pillar or my sage or sorcerer who leveled almost all Heroics including Heroic 4 solo.

I've tanked Soa on fragile DPS classes, it's an old op.

Now have your operative try and tank a boss in HM16 DF or DP, and see how long the fight lasts.... Scoundrels can be shut down with one blow and killed with the next. Not that DPS can't.

 

Anyway, we're talking about how classes work.

As a healer, your survivability is based on self-heals. You get hit, you need to heal. At under half health you're a one-hit-kill for a stronger boss, not Soa oc (I know, I have healers), you have to bring it up ASAP if he's targeting you. Your survival strategy is based on restoring health as soon as you lose it to try and outpace incoming damage.

 

As a tank, your survivability is based on DCDs. You can temporarily ignore all damage, you can boost your health for a while, you're constantly cycling defenses. If your health gets low, you use your stronger cooldowns and survive. Anyone that isn't a tank or a Mara/Sent, if their health is low and they get hit, they are very likely to die, but for a tank it's the opposite, they push temporary defenses to make it damn sure they don't die.

 

So there's the difference. For a DPS or a healer, in absence of heals, their health bar is essentially their life timer, their remaining TTK. For tanks, health is only one of multiple defenses that comprise their time reserve.

 

Good healers know this. In pugged flashpoints, which the thread is about, they often don't. There's a lot of players who don't have a high-level alt. Which is why they sometimes have to be told about it.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[mikebevo]

This thread is about HMFP, I have done them 100s of times. You are not going to tell me a way of doing it I have not seen. Also no the tank is not the default leader. Now they make the pulls, but a raid leader can any role. It is more about who knows the instances and the roles, not the person with a shield next to their name.

 

I've tanked Soa on fragile DPS classes, it's an old op..

Old now, it wasn't old when I was level 50 in columi and rakata gear in HM, which is when I did that.

 

As a healer, your survivability is based on self-heals.

.

Well that isn't how I do it. I take pride in taking the least heals in a opertions, you know how I do that? I take the least damage. It is all about avoiding avoidable damage and mitigating damage that can not be avoided. You're right, she could be one shot by some of the attacks a tank takes, but guess what she isn't a tank so she isn't taking those hit unless the tank makes a mistake, that said she could tank almost any boss in a HMFP 50 or 55. Almost full 78 with a few 75 pices will do that.

 

Also you are in way different HMFP than me, usually I type Hello and get a reply and then I type Thanks and get a reply and leave group. Only time there is anything beyond that is when someone gets stuck or someone says it is their first time there. You start telling me how to heal, I am not reading it, now if you want to type a joke I will read that.

Edited February 13, 2014 by mikebevo

[NoFishing]

pre-pull CC, SOMETIMES.

 

ONLY, repeat, ONLY if you are talking about stealth CC. Sages and commandos should cast their CCs so they hit just AFTER the tank pulls. This is actually true for any CC that initiates combat. If it lands before the tank starts the fight, you will have aggro on everything, and you don't want that. Especially with a guardian tank that could have used reflect to have a ton of aggro on all the ranged mobs if only they had started shooting him first.

[Heal-To-Full]

This thread is about HMFP, I have done them 100s of times. You are not going to tell me a way of doing it I have not seen. Also no the tank is not the default leader. Now they make the pulls, but a raid leader can any role. It is more about who knows the instances and the roles, not the person with a shield next to their name.

Please let's leave egos at door. The thread is not about you (not about me either). How many times you've done the HM55s is only of any relevance if you're the only person on your server to have done them this many times.

 

By the way, you know what "default" means, right? That is, given equal experience, or given no information about each member's experience, the easiest choice is to have the tank lead the group.

 

Tanking role calls for the most input from the leader: when to pull, where to bring the boss, etc. In pugs, where your sole means of communication is text chat, it's just simpler not to communicate it at all by having tank=lead. There's enough non-verbal information a tank relays by their actions that you can run without saying a word in this arrangement. In any other, the leader will have to actively tell the tank what to do.

 

Now, if another member is much more experienced than the tank, then yes, it may be worth the extra communication required for them to lead. But that's an "if". Most of the time, when I'm on a DPS or healer, it's easier to just follow the tank even if they're much less experienced and geared.

 

 

Well that isn't how I do it. I take pride in taking the least heals in a opertions, you know how I do that? I take the least damage. It is all about avoiding avoidable damage and mitigating damage that can not be avoided.

Sure. But that only applies if you actually have someone else tanking. If you have to ersatz-tank on a healer character, it's mostly a heals race against incoming damage.

[Tygranir]

I queue as DPS then heal during quick fights so I don't have to move

 

/lazy

[HoloTweed]

The presence of Endurance on gear doesn't make it tanking gear. Endurance being the highest stat on gear doesn't make it tanking gear either.

 

ABSOLUTELY it does when talking about ARMORING where you only have two stats - main and end. The high endurance versions are unequivocally tanking gear. A "tank" who doesn't have armoring with End as the high stat isn't a tank.

 

Please read what you're trying to argue with more closely (as I pointed out I was referring specifically to armoring).

 

However, to further elaborate, this guy was NOT in tank stance and had NO shield or absorb mods. He was mostly power.

Edited February 13, 2014 by HoloTweed

[venomlash]

Hahaha NOPE.

 

I heal mostly on my Commando main. For those of you unfamiliar with the AC, its greatest strength is our versatility; we have the best off-heals as DPS and the best off-damage as heals. When healing, I keep Trauma Probes up and toss out Kolto Bomb on its cooldown, and DPS otherwise unless the group is starting to run low. For 55 hardmode flashpoints, I only really ever need to switch to full healing mode when dealing with a boss mechanic. So excuse me if I use High Impact Bolt and Full Auto on cooldown, because I know what I'm doing.

 

Bait shamelessly taken.

[mikebevo]

By the way, you know what "default" means, right? That is, given equal experience, or given no information about each member's experience, the easiest choice is to have the tank lead the group.

Well there is a big difference between leading the group, than telling people how to play their roles. I would follow you, but I would not let you tell me how to play my roles. Well you could tell, I just would not listen.

 

I will heal you and dps anytime I want and if we win, it should not matter to you.

 

Yes I do usually follow a tank in FPs, but I usually don't have tanks telling me how to play my roles....As a matter of fact I have never had a tank tell me how to play my role or when I can or can't heal them. Only time a tank tells me when not to heal them is in NiM HCK, but I already can see the debuff.

 

Please let's leave egos at door. The thread is not about you (not about me either). How many times you've done the HM55s is only of any relevance if you're the only person on your server to have done them this many times. .

Also I have no ego, if I have done them 100s of times I assume others have too. I am average at best, but outside of NiM, the content is easy. You don't have to tell competent healers what to do and they are not bad just because they do it differently than you. Again if you tell most of the healers I know when to and when not to heal you, plan on repair bills. Edited February 13, 2014 by mikebevo

[NoFishing]

ABSOLUTELY it does when talking about ARMORING where you only have two stats - main and end. The high endurance versions are unequivocally tanking gear. A "tank" who doesn't have armoring with End as the high stat isn't a tank.

 

While tanks will *usually* take the high endurance armoring to ensure they reach their HP goals, or have a useful set bonus at end-game, there is zero difference in mitigation (armor rating) between the high mainstat and high endurance versions of the armorings.

 

I've met many very good tanks that use high mainstat armorings in their offhands, belts, or bracers, or use power crystals, or high mainstat barrels/hilts, because they simply don't need more endurance, and want that extra little bit of damage to help them hold threat.

 

For leveling, choosing all DPS armorings/hilts/barrels/crystals is a perfectly sane choice, because you are not giving up any mitigation, and there is nothing in any FP or heroic that is going to oneshot you if you didn't choose the high endurance ones. Plus, since AoE taunts don't exist until level 30, it can really, really, really help to get and hold threat before then. Not to mention making solo questing a bit faster.

 

However, to further elaborate, this guy was NOT in tank stance and had NO shield or absorb mods. He was mostly power.

 

This is the unacceptable part. Using a tank stance and shield is pretty much required to be considered a tank at any level.

Edited February 13, 2014 by NoFishing

[Heal-To-Full]

Well there is a big difference between leading the group, than telling people how to play their roles. I would follow you, but I would not let you tell me how to play my roles. Well you could tell, I just would not listen.

I will heal you and dps anytime I want and if we win, it should not matter to you.

It also matters if the group wins with all members alive. If not, DPS are collecting repair bills and tank+heal finishing the fight can turn a half-hour HM into a full hour.

 

It's a newb healer mistake, I don't see it in ops, I don't see it in guilds, but I see it in pugs all the time: a healer will sacrifice the DPS to save a tank that didn't even begin to need saving. There's also the opposite, healers not focusing on the tank when needed, but that's outright noob territory right there with "how do I sprint".

 

And, to that end, while a far lesser issue, a healer assisting with damage may be important for reaching the DPS goal for the group. Even just 800 DPS from each of 4 healers is 3200... that's like having an extra DPS in the raid.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[Jamalzero]

I am glad you will never heal for my tank toon if this is how you think. Given an operative has so many HoTs up at once, anyone near 100% health will be healed by them at 100% health (wasted energy).

 

so placing a probe that cost 9 energy and your regen is at 100 is a waste? do you know how to play an Op??? you do know that kolto probe has a 30% proc rate to trigger TA… you place that on your allies and its guaranteed to proc every 9 sec so no need to use shiv and they're constantly healing with out reapplication for another 18 seconds. so IF you're playing your class right you'd be more focused on your tree and all the procs and goodies that you get from it rather than DPS'n and pissing off the team

 

Healers like you waste energy on overhealing that could be used DPSing.

 

If you knew how to play your class you could keep people at 100% too and use only 20% of your energy doing so in the process. Grow up and learn how to play your class lol :roll eyes: I hardly use any energy unless i decide to throw OS in my rotation (only when asked to do so by a guild mate, I not do this with pugs) but even then i go right back to healing and spam my free heals. I know how to play an operative healer and I know how to keep my raid team at 100% without dropping my energy bar below 80%.

 

Why would you spend so much effort keeping everyone at 100% (and overhealing in the process) when you could very easily keep everyone alive with lower health, not overheal, and get some damage in to make the run go faster?

thats why you will never heal for me lol

 

Why take that chance of not healing and DPS'n when at any moment someone just could get hit with 25k???

 

--OR--

 

Like in S&V HM boss pushes you in the lake and chokes you…dealing about what 5k on tick(<--exaggeration) and it gets stronger…why take that chance to the point of that happening and you're not prepared for it because you decided to help people pew pew…when you're not that role…….

 

You healers that like to DPS don't know when to stop DPS'n and we have to tell you to heal or say in chat, "WHERE THE ********** ARE MY HEALS???" I never had those words thrown at me however I've said them just before i vote kicked a healer and replaced him for DPS'n and your $hit damage doesn't make anything go faster…. you're a healer… not a DPS if you want to DPS queue or respect as DPS… also I hate the folks that go in as a hybrid on a FP or Raid… if you go half heals and i notice I'm kicking….I don't have time for half *****ed heals or a Healer that DPS's

 

 

 

Any healer who would vote to kick another healer for DPSing (while they are still keeping their guys alive) is flat out a bad player.

 

I dont kick if they don't make me feel as if I'm healing a 16 man raid by myself, I never said if "they" were keeping their guys alive. My comment was to those that let them die or let the tank/DPS get to 20% or 30% then spam heal to 80% and go back to DPSing… in a Pug group I wouldn't take the chance past the first boss Id kick you any day and place on ignore. again i say if you wanna DPS you might wanna try concealment or lethality.

 

 

 

Again, it isn't about running out of energy. /QUOTE]

 

So you're saying from time to time you do?…..as an Operative Healer??????

 

 

 

It is about not being that guy who spam overheals instead of using that energy actually helping a mob die faster.

 

So maybe just maybe I could agree with this part if you say you run with a bunch of undergeared baddies all the time… just maybe because i could understand where you come from and could paint a mental picture of why you do what you do and not heal. I just want to see those words on the screen from you… tell me you run with under geared DPS and ill concede to this debate… because unless we're carrying a newbie my guild doesn't have DPS issues to the point where the healers have to throw down…NEVER lol

 

Not even when i pug unless its a SM will i take under geared baddies but apparently you tempt fate…In a SM (pugging) i only allow 1-2 under geared toons and they are never (a) a tank or (b) a healer.

 

 

Having the highest HPS isn't the goal in a run (even though it sounds like that is your goal).

 

I don't even parse…and even if i did I still don't try to do that it just comes natural because not even in a WZ I DPS as my healer ill be that 1 healer that layer down 1.7mil - 2mil heals and have 0 DPS all the other ones will have 500k - 1mil heals and like 400k -600k DPS (clearly dots) nope i don't play that... if i have time to DPS I have time to heal which one keeps us alive more efficiently??? i think healing…. lol

 

Keeping everyone alive while taking down mobs as fast as possible is the goal.

 

thats the only part i agree with, let the DPS do their job and stop running with people you feel as if you need to assist them in doing their job… If you ran with decent DPS youd never have to help out lol

Edited February 14, 2014 by Jamalzero

[NoFishing]

Why take that chance of not healing and DPS'n when at any moment someone just could get hit with 25k???

 

The subject is flashpoints. There is no attack in any FP that is going to do 25K to anyone. I don't think anyone is claiming that healers should spend significant amounts of time doing damage in HM or NiM operations.

[Heal-To-Full]

Grow up and learn how to play your class lol :roll eyes: I hardly use any energy unless i decide to throw OS in my rotation (only when asked to do so by a guild mate, I not do this with pugs)

OS is gone now. Before, it was definitely the ability operative healers should have used on cooldown, asked or not. Unless they're low on energy and adrenaline probe is on CD, or a heal is needed right now.

OS did as much as 300 dps per target for the price of 2 GCD a minute. On stacked mobs, orbitals are still being precast by both heals and DPS.

Why take that chance of not healing and DPS'n when at any moment someone just could get hit with 25k???

Know the fights, read the parses, remember when and what is dealt out - and you won't be taking any chances.

Max healing all the time is a strategy for your first run, when you don't know what comes next and prepare for the worst.

My comment was to those that let them die or let the tank/DPS get to 20% or 30% then spam heal to 80% and go back to DPSing…

The latter is a perfectly reasonable strategy if you have a good tank. As long as everyone's alive in the end, the healer has done their job.

 

Let me explain. I can solo most 4-man content in this game, a lot of people can, 180 gear is that good and the content is meant for 148 geared players. I often do, it's easier when you want to finish the weekly to solo it than to find pugs an hour before reset. If I can do something alone and have done it alone, what I want from a group is to do it quicker.

So the best thing a healer can do on easy content is precisely this: DPS, burst heal if someone's health gets low, then get back to DPSing.

 

I don't even parse…and even if i did I still don't try to do that it just comes natural because not even in a WZ I DPS as my healer ill be that 1 healer that layer down 1.7mil - 2mil heals and have 0 DPS

So you are HPS chasing, it seems.

In PvE there is some debate as to whether a healer should do damage. A healer should, but not in every fight.

In PvP there is no debate. Every player in PvP should be an objective player first and their role second.

 

There's no room on that 8-man team for healers that have unbound their attacks in favor of heals or for tanks that only ever taunt and guard. Staying alive isn't the objective in warzones, it's only a means to an end, the end being objective caps. Sometimes keeping players alive helps this end, other times it doesn't, they're better off respawning (happens a lot in Voidstar), and sometimes it helps, but not as much as doing something else.

 

It's not about damage. Objective play will cause it just incidentally. Most of your stuns do damage, most cap interrupts do damage. If you let a node get capped while you were standing there spreading heals, you are what they call a "bad".

 

An operative healer should still cast their orbitals over a node so it's uncappable for the duration.

Use their hard stuns - if an enemy's stunned, they don't do damage.

Shoot or grenade any enemy that tries to cap a node.

Take part in a sneak cap if your team needs it.

Kill an attacker coming to an undermanned node, if you can, and not just wait for reinforcements.

 

In PvE, as long as no one on your team died, which is even possible if you don't do progression, you have done at least an acceptable job as a healer. In PvP, don't tell us you have a 100% win rate, no one does, and you did lose team members, you did lose nodes, everyone did. Some of these weren't your fault; and some were, everyone who PvPs has made mistakes. If you could hold your objective longer by shooting rather than healing, you should have used an attack and not a heal.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Heal-To-Full

[AlrikFassbauer]

I agree Sage/Sorc healing is boring because you have to play that healing class with fines… your heals take up way too much force and have a long channeling or cast time. the small heal heals roughly 13% and the big one heals at 17% but they have a 1.5 and 2.5 cast and both heals take up roughly 50 force…

 

Yes, this is rozghly my experience as well. I seem to be not so good at healing (or, to put it in PvP player terms, I'm a "bad"), because I'm running out of Force too soon before the enemy is defeated.

 

I had it in that H4 on Hoth. We were 4 Sages around level 41-43, and one Jedi around level 39. It was that "trial" of fighting against tough enemies (Republic side).

 

I was running out of Force at one point, but, well, since we almost all were Sages, we could cross-heal quite a lot.

In the end, I had to use my Lightsabre just to help bringing the enemy down - but luckily there wasn't much health left anyway. But that happened several times.

 

I have an Commando with a long hiatus of playing (at least several months) and a fresh Mercenary, so I can't compare. But the Sage seems to be difficult as a healer, all in all. I wish it was easier.

 

thats why i chose Operative/Scoundrel heals you can spam heals all day and never run out of energy.

 

I really, really wish that healing as a Sage was so easy as well ...

 

Now top players will say "we don't need this, the class is balanced", like they so often do so in PvP and even in PvE discussions ... Well, if you really like the hard work ...

 

Why does the Sage class have to work really hard for Healing other teammembers when Operatives don't ? Why ?

 

I don't know why, but doing damage with my Sage is so much more fun. I really have the feeling of accomplishment, of really being contributing to something.

 

Maybe that's an Healer-centric problem in general : As a healer (I did heal with my Commando before I shelved him a few times) : There is never that feeling of accomplishment. It always feels to me like "they get the laurels because they defeated the boss, but the healers are easily forgotten". That's how SWTOR healing arrives at me. No-one says : "Thanks for healing." Everyone expects it, but no-one thanks for it.

Edited February 14, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Never_Hesitate]

I have an Commando with a long hiatus of playing (at least several months) and a fresh Mercenary, so I can't compare. But the Sage seems to be difficult as a healer, all in all. I wish it was easier.

 

I play all 3 Heal specs in ops and I have to say, once you get the hang of the sage/sorc it's very cool.

I wouldn't want it to be easier

I can remember the "good ol' days" when sorc healing was very easy, which was good for me as the noob I was back then, luckily it got brought in line with the other 2

[Cidanel]

so placing a probe that cost 9 energy and your regen is at 100 is a waste? do you know how to play an Op??? you do know that kolto probe has a 30% proc rate to trigger TA… you place that on your allies and its guaranteed to proc every 9 sec so no need to use shiv and they're constantly healing with out reapplication for another 18 seconds. so IF you're playing your class right you'd be more focused on your tree and all the procs and goodies that you get from it rather than DPS'n and pissing off the team

 

Do you have any clue what you are talking about? You do realize that you can keep probes up as well as shiv, granting you more TA. If you played your class right, you would realize you are hurting your group by sitting around doing nothing instead of maximizing your energy usage. I am doing everything you are plus more.

 

If you knew how to play your class you could keep people at 100% too and use only 20% of your energy doing so in the process. Grow up and learn how to play your class lol :roll eyes: I hardly use any energy unless i decide to throw OS in my rotation (only when asked to do so by a guild mate, I not do this with pugs) but even then i go right back to healing and spam my free heals. I know how to play an operative healer and I know how to keep my raid team at 100% without dropping my energy bar below 80%.

 

My energy bar never drops below 80%, I keep my team up and DPS as well. If you knew how to play your class, you would realize you don't need to keep everyone at 100%.

 

You obviously don't know how to play an Op healer if you think you should keep everyone at 100%. Let HoTs heal them from 80-100% when running to the next pack.

 

thats why you will never heal for me lol

 

Why take that chance of not healing and DPS'n when at any moment someone just could get hit with 25k???

 

--OR--

 

Like in S&V HM boss pushes you in the lake and chokes you…dealing about what 5k on tick(<--exaggeration) and it gets stronger…why take that chance to the point of that happening and you're not prepared for it because you decided to help people pew pew…when you're not that role…….

 

You healers that like to DPS don't know when to stop DPS'n and we have to tell you to heal or say in chat, "WHERE THE ********** ARE MY HEALS???" I never had those words thrown at me however I've said them just before i vote kicked a healer and replaced him for DPS'n and your $hit damage doesn't make anything go faster…. you're a healer… not a DPS if you want to DPS queue or respect as DPS… also I hate the folks that go in as a hybrid on a FP or Raid… if you go half heals and i notice I'm kicking….I don't have time for half *****ed heals or a Healer that DPS's

 

Stop talking about boss fights and trash packs as if they are the same thing. Obviously mechanics of boss fights are unique to the situation.

 

I can easily keep groups alive in raids and throw in DPS at the same time. I never once have seen someone ask where healing is. Some of us have enough situational awareness to keep groups alive and help damage at the same time.

 

I dont kick if they don't make me feel as if I'm healing a 16 man raid by myself, I never said if "they" were keeping their guys alive. My comment was to those that let them die or let the tank/DPS get to 20% or 30% then spam heal to 80% and go back to DPSing… in a Pug group I wouldn't take the chance past the first boss Id kick you any day and place on ignore. again i say if you wanna DPS you might wanna try concealment or lethality.

 

 

 

Again, it isn't about running out of energy. /QUOTE]

 

So you're saying from time to time you do?…..as an Operative Healer??????

 

Work on reading comprehension. I never get below 70% energy unless it is a conscious choice on my part. While keeping everyone healed. While helping DPS from time to time.

 

So maybe just maybe I could agree with this part if you say you run with a bunch of undergeared baddies all the time… just maybe because i could understand where you come from and could paint a mental picture of why you do what you do and not heal. I just want to see those words on the screen from you… tell me you run with under geared DPS and ill concede to this debate… because unless we're carrying a newbie my guild doesn't have DPS issues to the point where the healers have to throw down…NEVER lol

 

Not even when i pug unless its a SM will i take under geared baddies but apparently you tempt fate…In a SM (pugging) i only allow 1-2 under geared toons and they are never (a) a tank or (b) a healer.

 

 

I don't even parse…and even if i did I still don't try to do that it just comes natural because not even in a WZ I DPS as my healer ill be that 1 healer that layer down 1.7mil - 2mil heals and have 0 DPS all the other ones will have 500k - 1mil heals and like 400k -600k DPS (clearly dots) nope i don't play that... if i have time to DPS I have time to heal which one keeps us alive more efficiently??? i think healing…. lol

 

Obviously you never check logs. If you did, you would see how much overhealing (wasted energy) you do.

 

And WZs are not about having the highest healing numbers. It is about accomplishing the most objectives. Sometimes that means spam healing to get a few million heals, but more often than not the healer who gets 2 million heals in a WZ is a bad healer. Heal less and help accomplish the objectives and your team will win more matches. If you can burst kill someone who is at 10% health, that is more effective than healing the damage that guy does for the next 3 minutes.

 

If you have 0 damage in a WZ, that means you haven't stunned once. If debilitate, flash bang and sever tendon aren't on continual cooldown, you are a bad op healer in PvP.

 

debilitate, backstab, shiv, cloaking screen, hidden strike, shiv again should be a rotation you use on every low health player. Killing that low heath guy is better for your team than healing all of the damage he does by staying alive.

 

thats the only part i agree with, let the DPS do their job and stop running with people you feel as if you need to assist them in doing their job… If you ran with decent DPS youd never have to help out lol

 

You sound like the kind of one-track mind player who, if you were a bounty hunter DPS would never off heal because "it isn't your job". Turn your combat logs on and see how much overhealing you do. You will be very, very surprised at how much energy you flat out waste.

 

Again, I do everything you do while doing some damage as well Op healing is easy enough that there is no excuse to (with the exception of a few boss fights) not throw in some damage.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Cidanel

[BuriDogshin]

Maybe that's an Healer-centric problem in general : As a healer ... There is never that feeling of accomplishment. It always feels to me like "they get the laurels because they defeated the boss, but the healers are easily forgotten". That's how SWTOR healing arrives at me. No-one says : "Thanks for healing." Everyone expects it, but no-one thanks for it.

I do not feel that way at all. Heals (and Tanks) may not be the pointy end of the ops group spear, but I cannot recall running with a group, even a pug group, that treated them like non-contributors to the win. "Good job, everyone!" includes the heals, too.

 

When the total health of the team is 300K and the team receives 1.5 million points of heals, it should be pretty obvious to everyone that the team could not have won without the healers -- so obvious that no one has to say it.