A sad day for PVP

[TUXs]

I have to agree with TUXs on this one.

 

One can argue the merits of whether the OPs opinion is right or wrong regarding ground PvP, but how about we all agree that the OP definitely meant ground PvP and center the discussion on his actual point?

 

Thank you

 

And you'll NEVER get them to agree to that, they have no interest in discussing his point, they merely seek to insult and discredit him for having the opinion that PvPers have very little to look forward to. It's the typical bully brigade out to silence another player. They haven't even tried to debate the topic, just the term the OP used.

[kodrac]

No disagreement here.

 

Less divisiveness among the PvP players about PvP would be a good thing IMO.

 

As for the game.. what gets played the most will continue to get more attention.

 

Nitpicking about the difference between GSF and PvP warzones is a dishonest approach, IMO. Look familiar? There's divisiveness for a reason. You have your blinders on.

 

As for the game... whatever can be milked in the cash shop will get more attention. You can't tell me GSF is more popular than PvP warzones. I'm sure you'll try but you don't have the metrics.

[Andryah]

As for the game... whatever can be milked in the cash shop will get more attention.

 

Ah.. now I see what your narrative is. The cash shop killed your PvP.

 

You could have just said that up front.

 

Rodger Rodger, over and out.

[Joonbeams]

Wow, 18+ pages of 'debate' over whether GSF is "technically" player vs. player (it is) vs. whether it's "PVP" (it's not. "PVP" is a surrogate, dare say a euphemism, for ground PVP). When the phrase PVP is used, it's presumptively referring to ground PVP unless stated otherwise. Any other argument, however technically accurate, is just cute.

 

Here's an example. When we (here in the U.S.) say 'America' or 'Americans' we are very clearly NOT referring to Canadians or Mexicans or North Americans generally. Technically speaking this is not accurate, because Americans should also include anyone from North, or South, America. But the phrase 'American' has taken on its own meaning. And one doesn't have to like that or agree with that for it to be true.

 

So if someone says that "Americans" speak English. To respond with "I guess you're ignoring French Canadians," is technically accurate, but cute and largely unhelpful.

[BrianDavion]

Look let's step back and look at the whole issue for a moment shall we?

 

1st off.. the roadmap does NOT tell the whole detail. I'd be willing to bet money BW's holding onto some suprises for us, so when we look at that, we need to consider these are the highlights. not the whole kit and kaboodle.

2ndly, let's look at patch 2.6 for a moment, and look at whats in it that the devs HAVEN'T spoken of. class changes. this is something, in my experiance most PVP players are most concerned with more then new maps. (which are from what I can tell in a "ohh they're nice.. but" catagory) right now the roadmap info on 2.6 makes no mention of the class changes we KNOW are coming. so we can proably assume more class changes are down the road. that could be the important stuff to the PVP crowd.

 

3rdly: the focus on GSF makes sense, it's the new thing and they're releasing it in drips and drabs over a time period to keep it moving. hence why we've had stuff delayed until tomorrows patch that we know are ready.

 

Let's compare Operations, ground PVP (which I'll refer to as G-PVP) and GSF in terms of actual content for a moment.

 

Operations: Operations in SW:TOR are in a pretty healthy place IMHO. we currentl;y have 4 "end game" operations. all with a story mode and a hard mode. however only the two earlier ones (which drop gear inferior to the hard modes of the latest) have nightmare modes. it'll be a suprisingly long time before we get nightmare modes for those ops. while the ops are in good places. hard core raiders I'd say are within their rights to grumble as this is the longest we've been kept waiting for nightmare modes for raiding. but over all PVE is in a good place. in terms of gear we have 3 tiers of gear (not including classic stuff) obtainable through raiding. Arkanian is no better then what can be bought with basic comms but does have set bonuses. ensuring even though who run story mode ops feel there's a reason to do so.

 

G-PVP: I'll be up front of the three things I'm talking about I have the least experiance with ground PVP. ground PVP has 4 differnt types of warzones, each with their own differing way of scoreing etc. the upcoming quesh WZ is intreasting in that it's a "differnt map, but same objective type as a previous one" making it something new for warzones. in addition to the Warzone maps, PVP has a number of arenas 4 or 5 that's quite a varity of terrain. more areas to fight over is always better but I think PVP in that regard isn't too bad off. however class rebalancing is proably one of the big things needed for PVP. there's only two sets of gear but given what happened last time BW introduced new PVP gear I'm not sure PVPers wanna go through that again

 

 

GSF: ok, we currently have 6 "classes" 2 maps and 1 play style for GSF. tomorrow that'll expand a little but right now GSF is in a very "incomplete" state compared to everything else. that IMHO is why we're hearing so much about it. BW's basicly slowly rolling out the "complete package"

Edited February 3, 2014 by BrianDavion

[kodrac]

Ah.. now I see what your narrative is. The cash shop killed your PvP.

 

You could have just said that up front.

 

Rodger Rodger, over and out.

 

That's not my narrative and it hasn't been and you know it. You brought up what will get the most attention and I offered an alternative.

 

I don't disagree with most of what you say on these forums. But this nitpicking a term for the lack of an argument is just plain stupid. PvE is your avenue of gameplay, everything else you see is a sidegame; warzones a sidegame, GSF a sidegame. News flash, not everyone sees PvP as a side game. But anytime anyone is unhappy about the direction of PvP posts anything you jump on them for it. It's ridiculous. You argue for the mere sake of arguing. Get off our nitpicking high horse and agree to disagree for a change.

[TUXs]

Ah.. now I see what your narrative is. The cash shop killed your PvP.

That's not at all what he said.

 

He said whatever can sell the most will get the most development time. He stated that he believes there's no way GSF could keep up with PvP...not that the cash shop killed PvP...he's suggesting Bioware invest in PvP because the audience is bigger than GSFs.

[Infernixx]

Wow, 18+ pages of 'debate' over whether GSF is "technically" player vs. player (it is) vs. whether it's "PVP" (it's not. "PVP" is a surrogate, dare say a euphemism, for ground PVP). When the phrase PVP is used, it's presumptively referring to ground PVP unless stated otherwise. Any other argument, however technically accurate, is just cute.

 

Here's an example. When we (here in the U.S.) say 'America' or 'Americans' we are very clearly NOT referring to Canadians or Mexicans or North Americans generally. Technically speaking this is not accurate, because Americans should also include anyone from North, or South, America. But the phrase 'American' has taken on its own meaning. And one doesn't have to like that or agree with that for it to be true.

 

So if someone says that "Americans" speak English. To respond with "I guess you're ignoring French Canadians," is technically accurate, but cute and largely unhelpful.

 

That's all well and good, but GSF is still PVP.

[TUXs]

You argue for the mere sake of arguing.

That is EXACTLY what happens from some posters.

[Infernixx]

That is EXACTLY what happens from some posters.

 

I disagree completely.

[kodrac]

T...he's suggesting Bioware invest in PvP because the audience is bigger than GSFs.

Indeed that would be nice, but after reading this road map I no longer hold out any hope for that happening.

[kodrac]

I disagree completely.

 

You troll for the sake of trolling. Carry on.

[BrianDavion]

That's not at all what he said.

 

He said whatever can sell the most will get the most development time. He stated that he believes there's no way GSF could keep up with PvP...not that the cash shop killed PvP...he's suggesting Bioware invest in PvP because the audience is bigger than GSFs.

 

problem is there's no way to prove that one way or another.

 

Let's say for example they add two things to the store tomorrow. the

 

"robe of awesome" and the "starfighter scheme of cool"

 

chances are the robe of awesome will indeed be the best selling item. but there's no way to prove if it's being bought mostly by folks who PVP, PVE, or even GSF players. or people who do a combination of the three

[Joonbeams]

That's all well and good, but GSF is still PVP.

 

And your response is still "cute."

[Infernixx]

You troll for the sake of trolling. Carry on.

 

Disagreement is not the same thing as trolling.

[kodrac]

Disagreement is not the same thing as trolling.

 

Your lack of an argument is.

[Infernixx]

Your lack of an argument is.

 

That's entirely not true. I maintain that GSF is PVP until they change it to where we're fighting AI ships instead of other players.

 

Player Versus Player. I mean, god, it's not rocket science, people.

[kodrac]

problem is there's no way to prove that one way or another.

And that's the crux of the problem. We don't know what will get the focused on or why exactly. People on the forums will argue for one thing or another but only BW knows.

[kodrac]

That's entirely not true. I maintain that GSF is PVP until they change it to where we're fighting AI ships instead of other players.

 

Player Versus Player. I mean, god, it's not rocket science, people.

 

You are still nitpicking a term in order to derail the OP. And I, for some reason, am giving you bait by responding to you. So I'll end that. Carry on trolling.

[TUXs]

problem is there's no way to prove that one way or another.

 

Let's say for example they add two things to the store tomorrow. the

 

"robe of awesome" and the "starfighter scheme of cool"

 

chances are the robe of awesome will indeed be the best selling item. but there's no way to prove if it's being bought mostly by folks who PVP, PVE, or even GSF players. or people who do a combination of the three

 

Don't tell me. I simply explained what he said...I didn't state it.

 

And "WE" don't need to prove crap, we can't, so expecting that of someone is stupid. We can only speak of our experiences. Bioware knows the truth - they have the metrics.

[Joonbeams]

That's entirely not true. I maintain that GSF is PVP until they change it to where we're fighting AI ships instead of other players.

 

Player Versus Player. I mean, god, it's not rocket science, people.

 

It's 'player vs. player' but it's not 'PVP'. "PVP" has taken on the meaning of ground-PVP just as 'Americans' has come to refer to only those from the United States. That's the point here. We all know that, everyone knows what is meant, but we can continue being cutiepies.

[Infernixx]

It's 'player vs. player' but it's not 'PVP'. "PVP" has taken on the meaning of ground-PVP just as 'Americans' has come to refer to only those from the United States. That's the point here. We all know that, everyone knows what is meant, but we can continue being cutiepies.

 

They can say that it means 'roll around on the ground in tickle fights', but that's irrelevant.

 

Words have meaning and people don't get to redefine them to make their arguments more stable.

 

GSF 'is' PVP by definition and people are silly to say that it isn't.

[Joonbeams]

They can say that it means 'roll around on the ground in tickle fights', but that's irrelevant.

 

Words have meaning and people don't get to redefine them to make their arguments more stable.

 

GSF 'is' PVP by definition and people are silly to say that it isn't.

 

I'm disappointed in myself for getting sucked into this 'debate.' We all know what PVP means and what the OP meant as PVP, just like we all know what a lot of euphemisms mean, and we all know it wasn't referring to GSF. But carry on if you like -- I will not be.

[Jadescythe]

That's entirely not true. I maintain that GSF is PVP until they change it to where we're fighting AI ships instead of other players.

 

Player Versus Player. I mean, god, it's not rocket science, people.

 

GSF is player versus player, yes. On this forum, however, we refer to ground PvP as simply "PvP" and GSF as "GSF". No one is arguing that what you are saying is untrue, only that the term is used differently in the current context. Terms that have a specific meaning can be adopted to mean something else by a group of people. If you misunderstood his point because you were not familiar with the language typically used on this forum, it would be understandable. However, you knew what he meant and CHOSE to point out information that did not pertain to the point he was trying to make. Continuing to argue only that GSF is PvP (with no one really, everyone agrees it's player versus player) without listening to the larger group explain that we refer to GSF and PvP separately is what makes you a troll.

[Infernixx]

GSF is player versus player, yes. On this forum, however, we refer to ground PvP as simply "PvP" and GSF as "GSF". No one is arguing that what you are saying is untrue, only that the term is used differently in the current context. Terms that have a specific meaning can be adopted to mean something else by a group of people. If you misunderstood his point because you were not familiar with the language typically used on this forum, it would be understandable. However, you knew what he meant and CHOSE to point out information that did not pertain to the point he was trying to make. Continuing to argue only that GSF is PvP (with no one really, everyone agrees it's player versus player) without listening to the larger group explain that we refer to GSF and PvP separately is what makes you a troll.

 

You can refer to it however you like, it's still PVP.