The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[LadyKulvax]

Honestly its just inconsistencies that is my issue, If the events around Malachor werent so suspect I would probably be all for it but I could use a power breakdown to help me think about it. Of course this is seperate from my meetra debate as I still fully believe that she wasnt affected by the Wound on Malachor and the only "affects" she felt was feeling the pain there, such as Obi-wan feeling what happened to alderaan. And the only reason she was able to feel that pain is because her powers werent diminished thanks to her Wound.

 

But her Moving meditation meant that even that didnt end up diminishing her powers in the actual fight as she was able to protect herself from that thanks to that particular technique, but even that wasnt enough for her to defeat the Triumviate she was only able to do so with the Elightenment that she achieved. Something she never really achieved again after wards, thanks to one reason or another, but as it is semi oneness and she never really achieved it again I dont know if it should be counted as part of her repertoire but it certainly helped her beat Traya.

 

I think with out that Both her and Traya are likely on even grounds as i believe the Elightenment helped Meetra as much as the Nexus helped Traya, but thats just my theory based on the info i have been given thus far. And Because of that belief then Its really up in the air to me about where all this goes.

 

Either I think Sateele goes above Meetra or Traya goes above Malgus. one of them needs to be flopped if my above analysis is at all CLOSE to being accurate.

 

We never said her powers were diminished, instead we stated the opposite, she was protected from all but the crushing gravity of the planet and the anguish of the souls there.

 

And sorry but your attempt to state that she never again experienced enlightenment is ridiculous, she was always in a state of enlightenment, the only variable was Moving Meditation.

 

When she could focus she could easily call upon her full power, because that is what reaching the apex of light side mastery does, it allows you to open yourself up to the Force completely, dismissing it as if it's Oneness and is an absolutely uncontrollable act of the Force is frankly absurd given that the statements involved make it quite clear that she was already enlightened, she merely needed to use Moving Meditation to harness the Light Side of the Force completely.

 

She used her enlightened state to make Darth Nihilus absolutely ravenous, because she 'shined' with the Force he absolutely could not stop himself from feeding off of her, which caused his downfall.

 

And you should know that once she finally used Sever Force on Traya even meditation could not halt her exhaustion, when faced with her telekinetic lightsaber combat, all she could do is stop, drop and roll literally.

 

Then Traya had basically given up, as that move dispersed the last of her own Force reserves.

 

Clearly Moving Meditation was something that she could not maintain indefinitely.

[tunewalker]

We never said her powers were diminished, instead we stated the opposite, she was protected from all but the crushing gravity of the planet and the anguish of the souls there.

 

And sorry but your attempt to state that she never again experienced enlightenment is ridiculous, she was always in a state of enlightenment, the only variable was Moving Meditation.

 

When she could focus she could easily call upon her full power, because that is what reaching the apex of light side mastery does, it allows you to open yourself up to the Force completely, dismissing it as if it's Oneness and is an absolutely uncontrollable act of the Force is frankly absurd given that the statements involved make it quite clear that she was already enlightened, she merely needed to use Moving Meditation to harness the Light Side of the Force completely.

 

She used her enlightened state to make Darth Nihilus absolutely ravenous, because she 'shined' with the Force he absolutely could not stop himself from feeding off of her, which caused his downfall.

 

And you should know that once she finally used Sever Force on Traya even meditation could not halt her exhaustion, when faced with her telekinetic lightsaber combat, all she could do is stop, drop and roll literally.

 

Then Traya had basically given up, as that move dispersed the last of her own Force reserves.

 

Clearly Moving Meditation was something that she could not maintain indefinitely.

 

Well that makes sense, no one can stay in a meditative state forever. The whole Enlightenment thing I just dont know if it was ever mentioned again and if was permanent I dont see why she couldnt wipe the floor with any one when not on some sort of Nexus....Then again I guess Luke gained a form of that in Courtship of princess Leia in his near death experience and Yoda likely achieve Enlightenment through his years of meditation and study, so its not far fetched to think others achieved Enlightenment of Light side, Dark Side or the force in general through other means. Sorry rambling there.

 

I honestly believe it was more to her being un able to call on stuff towards the very end then just the planet. With out her moving Meditation obviously we both know that her mind would have been clouded with all the pain death and suffering of the planet around her, but to top it off she just fought through a lot of people her body is likely exhausted and a Jedi who's exhausted both Body and Mind is GOING to have trouble calling on the force that makes sense.

 

 

Like I said I am jut giving my understanding of things and trying to get a better and clearer pictures of the events since I missed all this in the game, because it largely didn't portray this stuff.

[Aurbere]

Well, I can but it on the backburner - but let's not get side tracked.

 

Alright. Well, I think it's fairly unanimous for Traya to be moved up.

[tunewalker]

Alright. Well, I think it's fairly unanimous for Traya to be moved up.

 

Yup and I am actually likely the looks of this list more I am realizing it seems more balanced and in the end they are all so darn close as it is its hard to judge to begin with.

 

 

Though Other then the Plagueis one I want to make sure there isnt some one that can drop Saba from the list. Her Force Valor and healing along with her Masterful senses definitely put her up there. She was labeled a "master of TK" by her peers, but I just want to make sure there is little doubt.... Its so close between all of them and there are just so many jedi through the Millenia its hard to judge.

[Aurbere]

Yup and I am actually likely the looks of this list more I am realizing it seems more balanced and in the end they are all so darn close as it is its hard to judge to begin with.

 

 

Though Other then the Plagueis one I want to make sure there isnt some one that can drop Saba from the list. Her Force Valor and healing along with her Masterful senses definitely put her up there. She was labeled a "master of TK" by her peers, but I just want to make sure there is little doubt.... Its so close between all of them and there are just so many jedi through the Millenia its hard to judge.

 

I think Obi-Wan should be in her place. I haven't seen much in the way of Alter for Saba to out do him.

[Beniboybling]

Even they should be tired of it by now...

Just keep on reporting them for each and every one of their phishing postings you find (hint: look at their profile, they didn't post anything else but that crappy referral trap link!). Sooner or later Bioware hopefully wakes up, confiscates all cartel coins connected to that account and bans the player in question with all their alt accounts.

Lol, its as if someone released a bunch of trolls and the troll hunters are racing across threads pursuing them.

 

*points* They went that way!

Edited February 3, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Alright. Well, I think it's fairly unanimous for Traya to be moved up.

Very well, now I'm sure the next one will stir a debate. Honest.

 

Go, gaze upon it and see your doooom!

[tunewalker]

Very well, now I'm sure the next one will stir a debate. Honest.

 

Go, gaze upon it and see your doooom!

 

Actually I agree. I think Vader is better duelist but after thought over time I think Kun is stronger in the force. They are both super close though on both saber and force skill.

[Beniboybling]

Actually I agree. I think Vader is better duelist but after thought over time I think Kun is stronger in the force. They are both super close though on both saber and force skill.

Well its not a question of agreeing or not agreeing, I actually would stick with Vader, but I'll wait for further thoughts.

[Aurbere]

Well its not a question of agreeing or not agreeing, I actually would stick with Vader, but I'll wait for further thoughts.

 

I think I would vote for Vader.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Abit they both have shown powers the other hasn't shown. Though Vader does surpass Kun a few times in areas both Force usage and non. Then again the same could be said for Kun, but that goes back to Vader not being able to do much Force wise.

 

Tbqh(gonna go off on a tangent here) Vader should be one of the most powerful TK users out there, surpassing just about everyone barring Yoda(though I could see Vader surpassing Yoda in the TK catagory), Luke and Sidious. He already does for the most part but he should effectively eclipse everyone aside from the former 3 mentioned. Before anyone asks, no he doesn't surpass everyone with TK.

 

He already is boxed in and already resitricted with what he can do, might as well make him THE master of TK no? I could understand no if he could do some Sith Sorcery, Lighting, or any other. Buuut....he really can't, I feel like it would also help properly define him as the Juggernaut, a strong wall of sorts.

 

His strength feats need to become higher too...by a lot, because while they are good. They are still only roughly on par/near with Anakin Skywalker's strength feats. His strength needs to match his durability, the latter has been shown rather well but the former hasn't really.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Abit they both have shown powers the other hasn't shown. Though Vader does surpass Kun a few times in areas both Force usage and non. Then again the same could be said for Kun, but that goes back to Vader not being able to do much Force wise.

 

Tbqh(gonna go off on a tangent here) Vader should be one of the most powerful TK users out there, surpassing just about everyone barring Yoda(though I could see Vader surpassing Yoda in the TK catagory), Luke and Sidious. He already does for the most part but he should effectively eclipse everyone aside from the former 3 mentioned. Before anyone asks, no he doesn't surpass everyone with TK.

 

He already is boxed in and already resitricted with what he can do, might as well make him THE master of TK no? I could understand no if he could do some Sith Sorcery, Lighting, or any other. Buuut....he really can't, I feel like it would also help properly define him as the Juggernaut, a strong wall of sorts.

 

His strength feats need to become higher too...by a lot, because while they are good. They are still only roughly on par/near with Anakin Skywalker's strength feats. His strength needs to match his durability, the latter has been shown rather well but the former hasn't really.

 

Only thought.... Near one par with Anakin's strength feats? I was under the belief that Vader was much physically stronger then he was as Anakin and that was part of the reason he became even more of a power duelist. I am positive Vader was much higher in physical strength. As far as TK..... well he is def no slouche there I cant think of many outside the 3 you named Plageuis maybe Vitiate and Caedus really beat him in TK feats. He is pretty up there.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Only thought.... Near one par with Anakin's strength feats? I was under the belief that Vader was much physically stronger then he was as Anakin and that was part of the reason he became even more of a power duelist. I am positive Vader was much higher in physical strength. As far as TK..... well he is def no slouche there I cant think of many outside the 3 you named Plageuis maybe Vitiate and Caedus really beat him in TK feats. He is pretty up there.

 

Vader is theoretically stronger than Anakin, but his strength feats don't show him surpassing Anakin's strength. As for TK, I can't think of any off hand, but I am recalling a number of those that either are able to match/near/exceed Vader in the TK department. What I'm saying is though, I believe he should elicpse them all save for the former 3.

 

Because unlike everyone else, Vader is restricted(heavily) in what he is able to do with his power. Thusly, being his primary focus is TK for the most part he should not only have it be refined, but he should have it mastered to a ninth degree...barring of course the former 3 mentioned.

 

IMO of course.

 

But anyway...moving on.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Vader is theoretically stronger than Anakin, but his strength feats don't show him surpassing Anakin's strength. As for TK, I can't think of any off hand, but I am recalling a number of those that either are able to match/near/exceed Vader in the TK department. What I'm saying is though, I believe he should elicpse them all save for the former 3.

 

Because unlike everyone else, Vader is restricted(heavily) in what he is able to do with his power. Thusly, being his primary focus is TK for the most part he should not only have it be refined, but he should have it mastered to a ninth degree...barring of course the former 3 mentioned.

 

IMO of course.

Did he not lift a starfighter? I do not recall Anakin lifting starfighters...

 

Though remember mastery = power, Vader has a very exceptional, if not the most exceptional mastery over TK that I care to think off. The likes of Yoda etc. simply are able to apply such power in greater measure.

[tunewalker]

Vader is theoretically stronger than Anakin, but his strength feats don't show him surpassing Anakin's strength. As for TK, I can't think of any off hand, but I am recalling a number of those that either are able to match/near/exceed Vader in the TK department. What I'm saying is though, I believe he should elicpse them all save for the former 3.

 

Because unlike everyone else, Vader is restricted(heavily) in what he is able to do with his power. Thusly, being his primary focus is TK for the most part he should not only have it be refined, but he should have it mastered to a ninth degree...barring of course the former 3 mentioned.

 

IMO of course.

 

Well you and I both know where most of his training went. He wasnt focusing on TK he was focusing on healing his wounds, trying to get better and better at getting out of the suite instead of focusing on TK. He was getting better and better and if i remember Shadow of empire right he had made some progress making some of the healing permanent which is not something Dark Healing is known for. So in SOME WAYs he took Dark Healing to a degree not really seen before, because while others could keep the Dark Healing up much longer the moment they lost the concentration they lost the healing. While Vader did also lose 99% of the healing the idea that he held onto 1% of that healing with out having to focus on it any more is kind of beyond what others had done with Dark Healing up to that point.

[tunewalker]

Did he not lift a starfighter? I do not recall Anakin lifting starfighters...

 

Though remember mastery = power, Vader has a very exceptional, if not the most exceptional mastery over TK that I care to think off. The likes of Yoda etc. simply are able to apply such power in greater measure.

 

He argueably had greater "mastery" as he could do pretty much any of his TK feats on the fly with little effort or while being distracted (I just realized that may mean we technically didnt see his upper limit on this regards).

[Wolfninjajedi]

Did he not lift a starfighter? I do not recall Anakin lifting starfighters...

 

Though remember mastery = power, Vader has a very exceptional, if not the most exceptional mastery over TK that I care to think off. The likes of Yoda etc. simply are able to apply such power in greater measure.

 

Anakin has moved Conqueror class atmopspheric dreadnaughts.

 

Those things

 

As a Padawan mind you. Moved large builder droids, manipulated missiles, moved escape pods(Durge incident) etc(this is all as a Padawan)

Edited February 3, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Anakin has moved Conqueror class atmopspheric dreadnaughts.

 

Those things

 

As a Padawan mind you. Moved large builder droids, manipulated missiles, moved escape pods(Durge incident) etc(this is all as a Padawan)

Well you can thank the old OP Clone Wars series for that... lol.

 

Well at the very least we know Vader is capable of this and more.

[tunewalker]

Anakin has moved Conqueror class atmopspheric dreadnaughts.

 

Those things

 

As a Padawan mind you. Moved large builder droids, manipulated missiles, moved escape pods(Durge incident) etc(this is all as a Padawan)

 

again he is showing effort there, but i am pretty sure every time Vader did TK he did it while doing something else or moved multiple objects. So I think Vader could likely do the same, but in the suite he would likely be able to do so while hitting some one with a saber.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well you can thank the old OP Clone Wars series for that... lol.

 

Well at the very least we know Vader is capable of this and more.

 

Actually I found out that the majority of the old Clone Wars stuff, you can use(as far as abilities wise). Though of course yes, there are some things that have been exaggerated that you may have to disregard but....yeah, a lot of the things could still be used.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Actually I found out that the majority of the old Clone Wars stuff, you can use(as far as abilities wise). Though of course yes, there are some things that have been exaggerated that you may have to disregard but....yeah, a lot of the things could still be used.

Found out? In what way?

 

Now I'm not saying they cannot be used, just saying that that series was always prone to exaggeration, canon or not.

[Wolfninjajedi]

again he is showing effort there, but i am pretty sure every time Vader did TK he did it while doing something else or moved multiple objects. So I think Vader could likely do the same, but in the suite he would likely be able to do so while hitting some one with a saber.

 

That was just showing that Anakin could move smaller starfighters, considering those dreadnoughts were far bigger. Vader could probably move them things sure, what I'm saying though is, his TK should have no equal apart from the 3.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Found out? In what way?

 

Now I'm not saying they cannot be used, just saying that that series was always prone to exaggeration, canon or not.

 

My sources of highly nerdy Star Wars peoples. It did exageratte some to an extent sure, but in other mediums the characters have shown to being able to similarily do what they have shown in the old show or greater(in the novels, comics, etc)

[tunewalker]

That was just showing that Anakin could move smaller starfighters, considering those dreadnoughts were far bigger. Vader could probably move them things sure, what I'm saying though is, his TK should have no equal apart from the 3.

 

Well ya but like i said, his time spent trying to heal the wounds probably cut into his time perfecting teh TK so he likely spent about as much time as the others that are better at TK then him even though he was limited to only a few powers he wasnt always focusing on the combat ones while others were or werent depending.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Anyway moving on with this....Vader and Kun right? Well as I noted, both have shown powers the other hasn't displayed and both have surpassed one another. (Though for Vader it's just cause he doesn't have access, but even still).

 

So....I guess were gonna have to look see who surpasses who at what and go from there or?

 

But anyway, must be off to go do some stuff so bbl folks!