Burst-Laser Cannon

[Mallaliak]

Well this won't be easy to formulate without it coming off as nothing but a rant, but Burst-Laser Cannons. Does anyone else find their damage and power level off the charts?

 

Capturing, they're flawless for the scouts. You can easily evade good enough to get into range to shoot down the turrets in 1-2 shoots each while still dodging around the satelite.

 

Someone gets too close, you just turn and can shoot anyone except a gunship immediatly out of the sky with 1-2 hits.

 

And up and coming death match, where dogfighting in groups without a satelite to capture. They will continue to wreck.

 

I see decent pilot score up over 20 kills in a match due to burst laser. I don't know a way to balance it, or how to properly adjust the stats on the weapon, but surely a discussion towards that end can be had here?

[Zharik]

Well this won't be easy to formulate without it coming off as nothing but a rant, but Burst-Laser Cannons. Does anyone else find their damage and power level off the charts?

 

Capturing, they're flawless for the scouts. You can easily evade good enough to get into range to shoot down the turrets in 1-2 shoots each while still dodging around the satelite.

 

Someone gets too close, you just turn and can shoot anyone except a gunship immediatly out of the sky with 1-2 hits.

 

And up and coming death match, where dogfighting in groups without a satelite to capture. They will continue to wreck.

 

I see decent pilot score up over 20 kills in a match due to burst laser. I don't know a way to balance it, or how to properly adjust the stats on the weapon, but surely a discussion towards that end can be had here?

 

Yes they eat turrets quickly, but fully mastered rapid-fire lasers and rocket pods do too. (come to think of it, taking out turrets is one skill that *all* pilots needs to master early, I wish there was a practice area for something like that...)

 

Beyond 500m they are pretty under powered, so I don't see the issue... you get within 500m you get a cookie. (and BLC one shot nothing that's 100% full... 2 shot, yes)

 

Dog fighting will separate the pilots from the boys, though team death-match with separate the teams from the boys more so.

 

20 kills a match is more the product of weak competition than from overpowered BLC. (gunships get that kind of kill ranking too)

[Armonddd]

Capturing, they're flawless for the scouts. You can easily evade good enough to get into range to shoot down the turrets in 1-2 shoots each while still dodging around the satelite.

 

You have to be good to do this to other players. It's easy to crash into the satellite, or get shot by a gunship, or run out of energy power because you failed to manage your resources, or overshoot the target with boost/barrel roll (guilty!), or miss because when you're that close enemies just zoom across your screen.

 

Also, it's definitely worth noting that if your strategy does not involve fighting on a satellite, bursts lose a lot of their appeal -- lights and quads kill faster and at longer range, respectively. The power of burst cannons comes from the very small windows of opportunity created by fighting around a very obstructive point.

 

Someone gets too close, you just turn and can shoot anyone except a gunship immediatly out of the sky with 1-2 hits.

 

You can only do that to scouts. Gunships and strike fighters take 3-4 hits, plus maybe a cluster or rocket pod.

 

And up and coming death match, where dogfighting in groups without a satelite to capture. They will continue to wreck.

 

I'll be very surprised if burst cannons continue to be an uncontested dominant strategy. In a deathmatch, range becomes significantly more important. Quads'n'pods do their thing in slightly more time than bursts, but they're easier to hit with because things aren't zooming across your screen and have the additional strength of being able to finish off a weakened target from enormous range (a well-aimed pod does at least 446 damage from 6600 meters with at least 30% shield piercing). Lights with sab probe synergize very well with team play by setting up targets for others to assist and by taking advantage of targets hit by ion railguns or someone else's sab probes.

 

I see decent pilot score up over 20 kills in a match due to burst laser. I don't know a way to balance it, or how to properly adjust the stats on the weapon, but surely a discussion towards that end can be had here?

 

That's more than decent piloting, unless the other team is full of new players.

 

I don't think that burst cannons need to be changed. Right now, they excel at fighting around satellites but are inferior to other options in open space. Yes, a lucky roll with burst cannons can quickly kill an enemy ship, but those are significantly less reliable than the other strategies I mentioned above.

 

The best way to buff other lasers is to redesign the satellites so they are less reliant on tight corners fighting. Maybe they should have holes in them, maybe they should be bigger (and I mean absolutely massive), maybe there should be something else. It would take some testing, but it would be the proper fix to the issue.

 

 

If you were bad at design, you could increase the tracking penalty on burst cannons, which makes them somewhat less effective in the tight corner situations they currently excel in. However, not only is this frustrating to the players (because they're missing due to circumstances entirely beyond their control), but it's also counter to the entire CQC design of burst lasers (where the ability to take advantage of a wide firing arc is of paramount importance). Also, there's a number of instances where people simply circle the bottom of the satellite, and I can line up shots on them with all but no tracking penalty.

 

[Sadishist]

Well this won't be easy to formulate without it coming off as nothing but a rant, but Burst-Laser Cannons. Does anyone else find their damage and power level off the charts?

 

Capturing, they're flawless for the scouts. You can easily evade good enough to get into range to shoot down the turrets in 1-2 shoots each while still dodging around the satelite.

 

Someone gets too close, you just turn and can shoot anyone except a gunship immediatly out of the sky with 1-2 hits.

 

And up and coming death match, where dogfighting in groups without a satelite to capture. They will continue to wreck.

 

I see decent pilot score up over 20 kills in a match due to burst laser. I don't know a way to balance it, or how to properly adjust the stats on the weapon, but surely a discussion towards that end can be had here?

 

It's mainly just the node huggers who worry about burst. Which is whom burst was made to fight against, since they're less effective in open space.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Sadishist

[HoloGrinder]

Burst lasers kill fast only if you play there game. I fly a sting with quads and clusters and last night there was a good pilot in a flashfire killing every one with Burst Lasers. When he came for me I boosted into open space and fought him the way a SF would by boosting to a distance and jousting with him then boosting to distance and repeating. I killed him twice and he never killed me he did have 18 kills besides me however.

 

I am thinking about working on burst lasers next for my sting after I master (2 boxes left) But not as an ultimate dog-fighting destroyer of worlds. My play has evolved. Instead of dog-fighting all the time I have drifted more toward taking out turrets and holding satellites then jumping when it has turrets to the next. I have been trying to win and get requisition so if it will help me kill turrets faster and if it is good for defending a satellite why not. For dog fighting I think my quads are perfect.

[Flearos]

Well this won't be easy to formulate without it coming off as nothing but a rant, but Burst-Laser Cannons. Does anyone else find their damage and power level off the charts?

 

Capturing, they're flawless for the scouts. You can easily evade good enough to get into range to shoot down the turrets in 1-2 shoots each while still dodging around the satelite.

 

Someone gets too close, you just turn and can shoot anyone except a gunship immediatly out of the sky with 1-2 hits.

 

And up and coming death match, where dogfighting in groups without a satelite to capture. They will continue to wreck.

 

I see decent pilot score up over 20 kills in a match due to burst laser. I don't know a way to balance it, or how to properly adjust the stats on the weapon, but surely a discussion towards that end can be had here?

 

I agree. Of course I also think scouts never should have gotten burst cannons, quads, and distortion field shouldn't exist.

[ToMyMa]

I agree. Of course I also think scouts never should have gotten burst cannons, quads, and distortion field shouldn't exist.

 

Then what point would there be to play them? You're just mad that you got owned by a FlashFire/Sting

[Zoom_VI]

I agree. Of course I also think scouts never should have gotten burst cannons, quads, and distortion field shouldn't exist.

 

Quads? lol, a scout is gimping themselves if they are using quads. Quads have terrible tracking and don't work with any of the scout's strengths. Lights are a far better option, even rapids. Quads only work well against opponents who fly in straight lines, make really slow turns, or against turrets. Quads also suck at close range which is the range scouts are built for fighting in.

 

Burst cannons are only really OP at 500m range, and if let them get that close you deserve to die.

 

Now distortion field I agree is rather stupid, but it only needs to have its active reworked so that it no longer grants invulnerability. Besides gunships can abuse Dfield worse than scouts because its a effective get-out-of-jail-free card even when the gunship gets caught completely by surprise.

[BallisticID]

IMO bursts are absolutely fine. My two main ships cannot equip them, so I'm not one of those guys that says it is fine while reveling in their use.

 

I fly the Pike and the NovaDive and I find it fairly easy to avoid getting killed by burst cannons. Here are some tips.

 

1. Don't let them get close to you. (Stop hugging satellites)

2. Outrun them or stay at 3-4k off the objective. (They will be loath to leave the relative safety of the satellite to come get you, as they are easy pickings for a GS or missile boat.)

3. Use their maneuverability to your advantage. (They KNOW they can out turn you in your strike fighter or speed demon scout. Lead them somewhere where that turning is incredibly hazardous and if they still kill you then they are simply better pilots than you.)

4. Pick and choose your moments. (Sometimes it is better to take a cluster missile than to try and evade it and end up eating a burst cannon. I know that I use missile locks to make people evade because you can usually guess their next path by which engine evade they have.)

[reclipsed]

You don't need burst to get 20+ kills atm, and BLC's are junk unless you can see your targets white pupils. Working as intended.

[JadedJasper]

I do well with all the ships, and while the balance isn't completely wrecked, Burst Lasers still clearly do better than the others by a decent margin. It's just not as hard to get close as you guys allude, since you only have to get to 1-2km for them to do well, not 500m. Just slip behind someone (even someone good) who is momentarily busy with someone else, pop your damage boost, and they're often wrecked before they can do anything. Try that with even the high DPS Light Lasers and a good pilot will always get away and make you chase him.

 

Burst Lasers are also great for jousting, you just have to do it off angle rather than head on. One boosted shot at off angle does huge damage (especially on a crit), while a fast firing weapon will do most of its damage further out at much less firepower, and have a hard time hitting a deflected target. Even with Heavy Lasers I'm reluctant to joust with a good Burst Laser pilot.

 

All that said, I think they only need a slight tweak. Get rid of the armor piercing upgrade, and make them fire a bit faster so the damage spreads out more and you need to aim more often. Why is the shotgun good at piercing armor anyway?

Edited January 28, 2014 by JadedJasper

[Nemarus]

Burst lasers kill fast only if you play there game. I fly a sting with quads and clusters and last night there was a good pilot in a flashfire killing every one with Burst Lasers. When he came for me I boosted into open space and fought him the way a SF would by boosting to a distance and jousting with him then boosting to distance and repeating. I killed him twice and he never killed me he did have 18 kills besides me however.

 

I am thinking about working on burst lasers next for my sting after I master (2 boxes left) But not as an ultimate dog-fighting destroyer of worlds. My play has evolved. Instead of dog-fighting all the time I have drifted more toward taking out turrets and holding satellites then jumping when it has turrets to the next. I have been trying to win and get requisition so if it will help me kill turrets faster and if it is good for defending a satellite why not. For dog fighting I think my quads are perfect.

 

Their game is winning matches by staying on nodes. If a BLC Scout followed you off of the node, he was a fool. It is entirely in his interest to stay on the node. It gets him req, it makes sure his team gains/maintains control, and it gives him cover from long range weapons.

 

The reason Burst Laser Cannons are overpowered right now is because Domination so heavily rewards/demands sat hugging to win in competitive matches.

[Brewski]

The reason Burst Laser Cannons are overpowered right now is because Domination so heavily rewards/demands sat hugging to win in competitive matches.

 

This.

 

When the new mode goes live, and bombers become the new satellite humpers of choice, BLC will no longer be the best overall. It still will be the best in some situations, but not all. Scouts are going to have to come off the satellites to defend them or risk dying to a mine in the face, which I think will make for a better game overall.

[Armonddd]

Quads? lol, a scout is gimping themselves if they are using quads. Quads have terrible tracking and don't work with any of the scout's strengths.

 

If you want a mid-range dogfighter, you're not going to get much better than quads'n'pods. Don't mix up the scout's strengths with a set of strengths that excels in one aspect of the game.

[Kaivers]

I'm not necessarily opposed to BLC in its current form.

 

I think problems arise when a craft can leverage the defensive benefits of Evasion in combination with the offensive power of BLC. I've seen Scouts use it to ambush me and I think thats a pretty cool tactic but at the same time these Scouts should not be able to Evade a good portion of my fire by just sitting still. I also think Strikers need BLC or something similar as an option to add to their versatility.

 

If you see a Scout that looks like its hiding behind something do not approach because Keep your distance and get LOS from another angle.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Kaivers

[silvershadows]

Actually if they are sitting still you can hit them right through the distortion field.

 

I do it all the time.

 

I LOVE people who sit on satellites or under them - they are free kills.

[JadedJasper]

That only works if they haven't also maxed out their base Evasion. You can get through even maxed evasion a bit via effects that reduce Evasion, but not enough to be worth it if they're also shooting you.

 

But yeah, all you need to do is feint one pass so they waste their Distortion, then come back and burn them. Locking them with missiles from outside blaster reach is great too. Just parking next to a satellite is a weak strategy.

[okiobe]

If you see a Scout that looks like its hiding behind something do not approach because Keep your distance and get LOS from another angle.

 

Don't reveal the secret . I love waiting behind something until they are <5000m out then boosting around behind them. Easy kill usually.

[Kaivers]

Don't reveal the secret . I love waiting behind something until they are <5000m out then boosting around behind them. Easy kill usually.

 

Sorry!

 

Its a great tactic and definitely makes the game more engaging but I don't fly Scouts so had to give my Striker fam some love especially the newbs .

[BrianDavion]

I'm not necessarily opposed to BLC in its current form.

 

I think problems arise when a craft can leverage the defensive benefits of Evasion in combination with the offensive power of BLC. I've seen Scouts use it to ambush me and I think thats a pretty cool tactic but at the same time these Scouts should not be able to Evade a good portion of my fire by just sitting still. I also think Strikers need BLC or something similar as an option to add to their versatility.

 

If you see a Scout that looks like its hiding behind something do not approach because Keep your distance and get LOS from another angle.

 

 

that starguards can't take BLCs is IMHO rediculas.

 

I mean a goddamned gunship can take BLCs but the "multi laser strike fighter" can't?

[Nemarus]

that starguards can't take BLCs is IMHO rediculas.

 

I mean a gosh darned gunship can take BLCs but the "multi laser strike fighter" can't?

 

This, so much. And I don't even fly a Rycer because of how hideous they look. But yeah ... if Rycer/Starguard could take a combination of Heavies/Quads/Ions/BLC's, they'd be much more popular and effective.

 

But hey, Quell is getting a new missile option. Maybe there's hope..