It's your fault if you're on a PvE server and you get yourself flagged.

[NorthernYahoo]

I have done the dailies on two different characters as a 22 Guardian and as a 25 Sniper and I did not once get flagged or ganked.

 

Learn to pay attention to your surroundings, otherwise you have no one but yourself to blame for failing.

 

1.) Don't AOE if you know an area is going to be crowded with flagged members of the opposite faction.

 

2.) Don't be afraid to try new specs if you're currently an AOE spec.

 

Nobody cares about killing a lvl 25 player.

that's one.

Second, the problem isn't the fact that it might happen, the problem is the intent behind it. Some people don,t want to pvp, and they are dragged into it by players who want to troll. This should be punished because it is an abuse of the game mechanics, and ultimately WILL affect the enjoyment of the game by players whoa re doing everything right and minding their own business

[mikebevo]

People that may moan about turning off auto target making the game harder, go do NIM EC Stormcaller and Firebrand on a slinger or hell even a Shadow Infiltration. I learned to turn it off the hard way, force breach or Quickshot, no shield, wipe group. Guild tells me to go back to my sawbones. It took me twice to figure it out, but now I have auto-target off on all my toons, I turn it off just after getting out of the opening cut-scene.

 

Also after some crashes, auto target and combat logging will turn back to original settings, so check your settings after a crash. I know the other night on NiM TfB I shot the wrong adds on phase one of TfB on my sawbones. Again wiped the group when they exploited on me and the tank just because of my silly mistake and not making sure auto-target was off after the power flickered off at the start of the raid.

[Andryah]

Scenario: I'm entering the infested tunnels, with no other players to be seen. I attack a rakghoul and activate XS Freighter Flyby to get the ones that spawn. Shortly after the attack activates, a flagged opposing faction player uncloaks and runs into it, gets damaged and gets me flagged. Was it my fault for not paying attention? Should I refrain from using AoE attacks altogether out of fear of cloaked players?

 

Note: This scenario didn't actually happen. I've never gotten flagged due to AoE damage. I don't whine about being flagged, just wanted to present a scenario where paying attention isn't enough.

 

It's not just paying attention.... it's situational awareness at a more intelligent level -----> when in an area where the opposing faction can be present then ALWAYS ASSUME their is a stealthier present with the intention to bath in your AoE and provoke an opportunity to kill someone.

 

If you AoE in an area where you know the opposing faction can be present, then it is a risk you chose to take. That goes double for having auto-target enabled. Choices have consequences, even inside MMOs where players sometimes wish the devs would protect them from everything and everyone.

 

The OP is correct. If you get flagged against you wishes, it's your mistake or fault. Personally, I suggest not letting the stealthers have their way.... just say no to AoE when in a contested area of the game. It's not hard, but it does require a little discipline.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[Andryah]

This should be punished because it is an abuse of the game mechanics, and ultimately WILL affect the enjoyment of the game by players whoa re doing everything right and minding their own business

 

Since the player that got allegedly sucked into PvP had complete control over their skills and abilities that would expose them to said harm.... um... NO... it should not be punished by the game. When in the jungle, be alert for predators, and take appropriate safeguards if you don't want to be the prey. IF you had no control over being pulled into PvP.. I would agree with you.. but that is NOT the case here.

 

You could however, call some friends into your area to help you squish the people working the mechanics in their favor. That is how you punish them and send them home.... like players have been doing to pesky stealthers in MMOs for years and years.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[DataBeaver]

In an old thread related to this issue someone suspected that companion AoE might trigger the flag. While you're checking possible causes, might try that as well.

[Andryah]

In an old thread related to this issue someone suspected that companion AoE might trigger the flag. While you're checking possible causes, might try that as well.

 

People should in fact manage their companion with the same degree of care in terms of limiting skill and ability use as well. The companion is an extension of them.

 

Also, people need to remember that the first skill on their quickbar, coupled with auto-target and a companion is an invitation to disaster. It seems to give companions permission to attack in some specific set-ups and so you need to be mindful of this and if you don't want to PvP... get it all under your control and not running on auto. I'm personally aware of this because of the number of times I have observed a companion attack a PvE target when I did not intend it to be attacked... and it ties back to auto-target and a skill misfire on my part.

 

Personally, I think auto-target is the biggest issue here, followed by companion behavior, followed by use of AoE. Go to manual targeting, keep the companion on a short leash (and check it periodically), and don't AoE if you want to avoid being drawn in against your desire.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[DataBeaver]

Since the player that got allegedly sucked into PvP had complete control over their skills and abilities that would expose them to said harm.... um... NO... it should not be punished by the game. When in the jungle, be alert for predators, and take appropriate safeguards if you don't want to be the prey. IF you had no control over being pulled into PvP.. I would agree with you.. but that is NOT the case here.

Now I'm curious, why are you defending this antisocial behavior? It is Bioware's intention that PvP doesn't happen on a PvE server unless both sides agree:

Player vs. Environment (PvE) - In Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, Player vs. Environment servers serve as the "default." On these servers, you have the option to role-play as your character, and player- vs.- player fights must be agreed to by both sides.

Granted, they are doing a lousy job of enforcing this, and whining about it on the forums isn't going to make it any better. But I get the impression that you're not just complaining about the whining; you're advocating he continued enabling of harassment. So, why? Would it be so bad if players had better tools to play the game the way they want?

[mikebevo]

In an old thread related to this issue someone suspected that companion AoE might trigger the flag. While you're checking possible causes, might try that as well.

 

Well Treek didn't cause it and she uses a bunch of AoEs and I used her on 2 of the 3 toons I did the event on yesterday. Didn't use her on my sawbones since don't need a healer and using a tank makes it even slower. On my slinger and knight I did not limit her abilities.

[Andryah]

Now I'm curious, why are you defending this antisocial behavior? It is Bioware's intention that PvP doesn't happen on a PvE server unless both sides agree:

 

Dude, I am not defending anything. I am a pragmatist.... who also plays MMOs. It's on me to take care to not get drawn into situations that I don't want to be a part of. I know that there are all manner of players out there in the game with all manner of beliefs and pursuits of how they play the game. It would be absurd for me to take a position of allowing another players anti-social tendencies to affect my game play. Why? because every MMO, ever, has had anti-social and disruptive players (in the opinion of others).

 

Here...let me TL;DR it for you --------> drive defensively, it saves lives (in this case your characters).

 

There are no servers in this game that do not allow PvP. Which means that there are specific mechanics (like in every MMO) that can trigger a flag switch. A smart player that does not want to PvP takes precautions appropriate to the actual mechanics of the rule set. And no.. I really do not want an MMO company making the game "Hello Kitty" safe for me in every conceivable situation. 1) it's not a realistic expectation 2) I don't mind a game being challenging at all levels, including smart play (which includes learning from one's mistakes).

 

And as a veteran MMO player for many years now... in my experience, the best solution to PvPers trying to leech a player into PvP (regardless of rule set) is to assemble some friends and spank them and spank them hard until they cry and go home. This is just as true on a PvE server as a PvP server.....it's just that it's less frequent because on a PvE server their leeching ability requires you the player to make a mistake.... which brings us back to "drive defensively" unless you don't mind getting caught up in crashes.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[Rafaman]

Well Treek didn't cause it and she uses a bunch of AoEs and I used her on 2 of the 3 toons I did the event on yesterday. Didn't use her on my sawbones since don't need a healer and using a tank makes it even slower. On my slinger and knight I did not limit her abilities.

 

Used Treek as a tank with no issues. I used Kira as well as from time to time she has run off attacking mobs nowhere near the initial fight, and she does have an aoe as well. No problems.

[Andryah]

Used Treek as a tank with no issues. I used Kira as well as from time to time she has run off attacking mobs nowhere near the initial fight, and she does have an aoe as well. No problems.

 

Question: under what circumstances have you seen Kira go rogue attack? I have had her go rogue too from time to time, but it appears to have been me being dumb with auto-targeting and skill attacks.

 

I ask, because I honestly think the cause behind this is the root cause of what is happening in the context of PvP.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[Reno_Tarshil]

Question: under what circumstances have you seen Kira go rogue attack? I have had her go rogue too from time to time, but it appears to have been me being dumb with auto-targeting and skill attacks.

 

I ask, because I honestly think the cause behind this is the root cause of what is happening in the context of PvP.

 

Odd I have never had any of my companions Kira included go rogue on me.

[Rafaman]

Question: under what circumstances have you seen Kira go rogue attack? I have had her go rogue too from time to time, but it appears to have been me being dumb with auto-targeting and skill attacks.

 

I ask, because I honestly think the cause behind this is the root cause of what is happening in the context of PvP.

 

Well, I've seen her do it most on Oricon. I have auto target turned off and I let her do what she does. Occasionally, I'll engage a group in front of one of the escape pods only see her attack a mob and then sprint off and attack a mob in the distance. Lol. I used to think her AOE had something to do with it as she always seems to throw that before it happens but now I'm not so sure.

 

But yeah, she goes rogue and I wonder if that might not be contributing to the PvP issue. It didn't in my case but I could see it happening.

[Andryah]

Occasionally, I'll engage a group in front of one of the escape pods only see her attack a mob and then sprint off and attack a mob in the distance. Lol. I used to think her AOE had something to do with it as she always seems to throw that before it happens but now I'm not so sure.

 

Hehe... well Kira is feisty... maybe she gave the distant mob some digital communication (think middle finger) and the mob took offense and took a shot at her.

 

More seriously though.... I have had a distant mob, somehow linked to the current fight, attack me and that almost always results in the companion switching targets. But I have also seen a fight picked between companion and a clearly unlinked mob as well.. and no real clue what got them so worked up over each other. But it's hard to tell with some mobs since agro distance and agro linkage is hard to predict sometimes.

[mikebevo]

I have see Nadia do that on my shadow and Sage. Shadow it is on Oricon, but on my sage it was just in the last few days leveling on Corellia. Pretty sure on the Corellia one it was because she hit a mob we had skipped on the other side of a wall inside of a instance. Oricon it could have been the same thing it was in the heroic area and we were in one of those side areas. I wouldn't have been upset, but she ran off after the trash leaving me alone to die with the champ.

[Lunafox]

I have done the dailies on two different characters as a 22 Guardian and as a 25 Sniper and I did not once get flagged or ganked.

 

Learn to pay attention to your surroundings, otherwise you have no one but yourself to blame for failing.

 

1.) Don't AOE if you know an area is going to be crowded with flagged members of the opposite faction.

 

2.) Don't be afraid to try new specs if you're currently an AOE spec.

 

That's well and good enough to take care of accidental flaggings, but there are a lot of dbags out there trying to screw people up who think they're alone. I haven't been flagged yet, because I use singular attacks all the time just to avoid this crap on my PVE server. Just last night I had some dimbulb pub stalking my Operative, and I saw him when his invisibility gave out for a sec. He was literally following me around. I can't believe some people are *that* bored.

 

I don't think people on a PVE server who signed up to do solely pve should be penalized or have to watch themselves. They signed on expecting solely a pve server. Why even bother to designate servers with types if they're going to do this crap and then favour the pvpers by berating the pvers for wanting to play their way on the server they chose? They need to get a ticky box so people can avoid getting flagged, ever or stop with the pvp nonsense on a PVE designated server. That would actually make sense, but then...with these devs...LAWL.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lunafox

[Andryah]

I don't think people on a PVE server who signed up to do solely pve should be penalized or have to watch themselves. They signed on expecting solely a pve server.

 

These alleged people.. clearly did not bother to read the rule set for the server. There are NO PvE ONLY servers in this game.

 

Why even bother to designate servers with types if they're going to do this crap and then favour the pvpers by berating the pvers for wanting to play their way on the server they chose? They need to get a ticky box so people can avoid getting flagged, ever or stop with the pvp nonsense on a PVE designated server. That would actually make sense, but then...with these devs...LAWL.

 

1) it does not favor the PvPers. If anything, it frustrates them... which is probably why they do silly things to try to trigger PvP via a players mistake.

2) Many people actually DO like to do some PvP.. they just do not want to be compelled to do PvP 7/24. PvP is actually pretty popular on the PvE servers.

3) All a player has to do to avoid PvP is to read the rule set, understand the actual server mechanics for the rule set, and not do anything silly or careless......you know.. kind of like everything else on a PvE server....Example: don't pick a fight with a Champion your level while solo Oddly enough.. the server rule sets lets you.. but if you do, you will take a dirt nap for your carelessness. PvP on a PvE server is pretty much the same.... don't expose yourself to harm if you don't want a fight... which you can do as a PvE player who actually understands the rule set rather then puts fingers in eyes and ears and pretends it's something that it is not.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[Lunafox]

These alleged people.. clearly did not bother to read the rule set for the server. There are NO PvE ONLY servers in this game.

 

 

 

1) it does not favor the PvPers. If anything, it frustrates them... which is probably why they do silly things to try to trigger PvP via a players mistake.

2) Many people actually DO like to do some PvP.. they just do not want to be compelled to do PvP 7/24. PvP is actually pretty popular on the PvE servers.

3) All a player has to do to avoid PvP is to read the rule set, understand the actual server mechanics for the rule set, and not do anything silly or careless......you know.. kind of like everything else on a PvE server....Example: don't pick a fight with a Champion your level while solo Oddly enough.. the server rule sets lets you.. but if you do, you will take a dirt nap for your carelessness. PvP on a PvE server is pretty much the same.... don't expose yourself to harm if you don't want a fight... which you can do as a PvE player who actually understands the rule set rather then puts fingers in eyes and ears and pretends it's something that it is not.

 

This is the only game I've ever played that had server designations that are IRRELEVANT. When a company designates a server type, people choosing their server expect to get that sort of server. When I played on Age of Conan, they had PVP servers, where you were liable to get ganked or battled whenever and wherever you went. They had PVE servers where you peacefully play and do what you wanted without worry of being bothered by gankers or people wanting to pick fights.

As you say, some people like PVP included and that's why Age of Conan also had WZ that you could queue up for and be ported to. Those are fine, because you have to queue and be ported and I have no issues with pvp WZ in this game.

I just don't see why they've bother to say...'this is an RP server' ....'this is a PVE server'....and this is PVP server'...if they're not going to adhere to what they've labelled them.

Plus if the PVPers are so frustrated at the PVE rules and players in the PVE servers, then why the heck don't they go play in a REAL PVP server, where they actually can be with others of their own kind? If I get the urge to PVP I go and do so on Freedom Nadd, but most of the time I like to play peacefully, so I play on Shadowlands.

 

My point is why designate, if you're going to do whatever, just make all the servers the same so people have no expectations.

[Andryah]

My point is why designate, if you're going to do whatever, just make all the servers the same so people have no expectations.

 

1) very few MMOs actually have true PvE only server rule sets. The majority have PvE rule sets that are actually -------> PvP by consent. Sorry that you find that confusing.. but it's been pretty standard in the industry for many years now.

 

2) If all servers were PvP, many people would not play the game. Why? because while some people like the edginess of PvP any time any place factions can mix.. the reality is the majority prefer a PvE rule set with PvP by consent. Conversely, if all servers were only PvE, then PvP players would probably not bother playing the MMO. MMO companies like to appeal to a broad range of interests in MMOs... because it makes for more players and a more successful business.

 

The core issue here is some players do not want to acknowledge responsibility for their own actions, or mistakes, that draw them into PvP. They want a toggle in preferences to make it impossible. Thing is.. I've yet to play a PvE rule set on an MMO where there was a toggle like that. Even on a PvE server, there is responsibility on the part of the player to be aware of the handful of player actions that can get yourself flagged and to avoid them if you don't want to be flagged. Nobody can walk up and /smack you and set your flag.... you have to do something careless to be leeched into PvE. This is by no means unique to this MMO either. Are their players always ready to take advantage of your mistakes? Yep.. which is why you be careful unless you are looking for a fight.

 

This is the only game I've ever played that had server designations that are IRRELEVANT.

 

1) They are not irrelevant, they just are not to your liking. Notice the periodic threads complaining about getting ganked while playing, yet it's a PvP server they play on.. and forum members remind them if they don't want 7/24 PvP then roll on a PvE server??? The rule sets do have relevance here.

2) Be specific.. what MMOs have you played where PvE meant absolutely no PvP on the server??? I ask because the 800 lb gorilla in the market -----> same exact use of PvE as a rule set as this MMO.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[Grayseven]

It's still your fault for knowingly using an AOE attack given the potential risks.

 

No, it isn't. It is the fault of the flagged PvPer who runs into the AoE for the express purpose of flagging the non-flagged player. This is an exploit, is reportable and actionable.

 

You can not tell people that they can't use a large portion of their abilities because someone doing something to cause grief might cause said grief.

 

Using unintended bugs to grief or gain an advantage is against the ToS.

 

You are wrong, you're opinion is wrong, and nothing you say will make you right.

[MillionsKNives]

No, it isn't. It is the fault of the flagged PvPer who runs into the AoE for the express purpose of flagging the non-flagged player. This is an exploit, is reportable and actionable.

 

You can not tell people that they can't use a large portion of their abilities because someone doing something to cause grief might cause said grief.

 

Using unintended bugs to grief or gain an advantage is against the ToS.

 

You are wrong, you're opinion is wrong, and nothing you say will make you right.

 

Good thing a flagged player simply walking into your AOE does nothing then.

[Roshe]

I *love* going into the Rakghoul tunnels on any of my characters, be they my 20's or my 55's, and watch as flagged enemy players deliberatey come into my fights to try getting me flagged, only to stand there like idiots before they realize that I do not use any AE attacks. Instead, I single target my mobs and happily go about my business and /rofl at them when they fail. It just makes my day.

 

/happydance

[Reno_Tarshil]

No, it isn't. It is the fault of the flagged PvPer who runs into the AoE for the express purpose of flagging the non-flagged player. This is an exploit, is reportable and actionable.

 

You can not tell people that they can't use a large portion of their abilities because someone doing something to cause grief might cause said grief.

 

Using unintended bugs to grief or gain an advantage is against the ToS.

 

You are wrong, you're opinion is wrong, and nothing you say will make you right.

 

We've established AOE is no longer the cause of this..

[Hei_Atzfel]

Oh, this thread is still going on? Well I think that either I'm the luckiest SoB ever, or getting unintentionally flagged is a LOT harder than a lot of the people in this thread would make it out to be, because I can think of the number of times I have been flagged unwillingly and it's small enough to count on two hands.

[Andryah]

You are wrong, you're opinion is wrong, and nothing you say will make you right.

 

Ironically enough... you are wrong about this.