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SWTOR is NOT a single player game!


Qvasar

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**Getting back on topic because I think some people have derailed this conversation**

 

Point being this is not a single player game this is an MMORPG and there is "forced interaction" with other people but you reading the rules of the game and agreeing to the ToS you are acknowledging the fact that this is a Massive Mult-player Online Role Playing Game…

 

By that rationale, I assume you also think it should be enforceable that everyone role plays too?

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By that rationale, I assume you also think it should be enforceable that everyone role plays too?

 

On an RP server, yes, though I don't play on an RP server and I know not everyone plays on an RP server... What point were you trying to make?

 

My point was this is a multiplayer game and you have to interact with people at some point... It's inevitable...

 

In a single player game with the option of doing multiplayer content, you don't have any missions that "require" 1 more person if done 3 levels around the minimum requirement. Much like my Demon Souls example.

Edited by Jamalzero
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On an RP server, yes, though I don't play on an RP server and I know not everyone plays on an RP server... What point were you trying to make?

 

My point was this is a multiplayer game and you have to interact with people at some point... It's inevitable...

 

In a single player game with the option of doing multiplayer content, you don't have any missions that "require" 1 more person if done 3 levels around the minimum requirement. Much like my Demon Souls example.

 

I have leveled several characters to 55 totally solo. The only interaction I have had is competing for harvesting nodes or mobs for kill quests. You can get to 55 without a single Heroic, Flashpoint, Operation or PVP

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This is why it's not a single player game... Forced interaction I stopped reason after this because this made my point...

 

It is not forced, I can just skip the quest or node and carry on or come back later when no one is around.

 

Almost all of my class specific quest are in solo instances.

 

The only forced interaction I have seen in 2+ years is the plague, the annoying dance ball and snowballs and the snowballs and dance ball really had had little or no real effect on you.

 

I loathe the Rakghoul event, so have done something else while it is on.

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Amusing as hell. The usual BWbashers came out to do their thing while others simply gave their perspectives. Hopefully none of those perspectives that grated the cheese of BWbashers were reported for their insolence. An abuse of paid "privilege" that is all too common really. The people who spend all day in these parts trashing the game can't possibly be playing it unless they are posting while they play.

 

Or sleep is not important to them.

 

The game has both single-player and multiplayer elements until a character reaches end game, where multiplayer is a must to see its content. Welcome to MMOs, who by their very definition entails "more than just me." My wife and I are progressing through hard mode flashpoints with just us and our companions ... merely one rung below the start of final end game - operations. But we (being more than one player) are still classified as multiplayer.

 

What I find most astonishing is people calling themselves gamers coming into an MMO environment, where grouping is possible before a character ever sees its first mob, and complaining about the ability to group with others. Hello! There are a zillion titles on the market where a player can complete every objective in the game by themselves.

 

This is not one of those titles because this is an MMO. Anyone who states otherwise either hasn't played any advanced aspect of the game, or has an agenda that goes beyond playing the game. All one has to do is log in to realize that SWTOR is NOT a single player game if one wants to beat end game. But it can be a single player game for the 70% or so of the game that is not advanced multiplayer content.

 

There are hundreds of hours of gameplay there for the taking if a player wants to build their own private stable of toons, be relatively self-sufficient, and progress up to normal mode flashpoints. Past that, grouping is "forced" but that's why this is an MMO and not KOTOR. Should Bioware make a single player equivalent for an MMO end game, they will be the first developer to do so. Don't hold your breath.

Edited by GalacticKegger
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It is not forced, I can just skip the quest or node and carry on or come back later when no one is around.

 

Almost all of my class specific quest are in solo instances.

 

The only forced interaction I have seen in 2+ years is the plague, the annoying dance ball and snowballs and the snowballs and dance ball really had had little or no real effect on you.

 

I loathe the Rakghoul event, so have done something else while it is on.

I think anyone should feel free to play the game any way they choose, be it solo or groups.

 

I also think that at its core, this is a game that at every turn encourages playing with other people. Each planet has heroics that are difficult to solo (unless overleveled or overgeared), you are handed out flashpoint quests throughout the leveling experience, you see other players while questing, and at end game the purely solo player can only get so far.

 

An example of this is the HK-51 quest. Many "solo only" players were upset that it required running flashpoints to get parts. Many "PvE only" players were upset that it required going into the Outlaw's den to get parts. Since HK-51 is a companion (benefiting solo play) why should it require more than solo play? I firmly believe it was purposefully built to run the gamut of all the things you can do in this game. To push the solo player into trying the multiplayer portion of the game.

 

The Gree event is similar. Part of the event takes place in a PvP zone. Rather than getting frustrated that it was "forcing" me to PvP, I looked as it trying to get me to "try" PvP.

 

I understand that you feel "forced" to get involved by getting the plague. I'm not going to get into the 2k stim argument, as I'm sure you've heard that one many times.

 

However, I think you just need to realize that while the devs allow most of this game purely solo, they periodically shake things up to get people to try something else. There's only so much that a solo player can do in this game ...

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(this is an assumption and not to be confused with singling one person out) So you guys must think Street Fighter, Super Smash Bros., Injustice, Call of Duty, Sony All-Stars, Dragonball Z Budokai, Rock Band, Guitar Hero, King of Fighters, Naruto Ultimate Ninjastorm, and Mortal Kombat are all single player games since they have a storyline huh? lol :D:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Let me say this much, if you: (a) use the GTN, you are in fact engaging in multiplayer content; (b) queue for a WZ, you are in fact engaging in multiplayer content; © queue for a flashpoint (aka using group finder), you are in fact engaging in multiplayer content; (d) post "LFG" in chat and get sent an invite OR invite others you are engaging in multiplayer content; (e) ask for help on a quest and either (1) get an answer in whisper, (2) a real answer in gen chat (because we all know how many trolls there are), (3) get a response in chat, (4) someone invites you to make a group so they can help you, or (5) someone tells you to invite them to help you, you are in fact engaging in multiplayer content ; (f) I you are doing a quest line NOT tied to your story and it requires you to kill something and someone killed it before you did, well thats a multi-player game there bud gotta wait for a respawn…in story line content you're in an instance where you have to be in a group for it to be multiplayer so no one person can stop you from achieving your quest goal…; or even (g) If you talk in gen chat, you are engaging in multiplayer content…

 

In single player games only 1 person in playing and is unaccompanied and MOST do not have an option to chat or interact with other players and lets not confuse Single Player games with single player games that have a multiplayer function like GTA, Little Big Planet, Demon Souls, Digimon World 2 (and 3), Eternal Sonata, Zone of the Enders, Dungeon Siege (2 and 3), Metal Gear Solid "Portable Ops", and Monster Rancher (1, 2 and 3).

 

So lets say hypothetically you don't do anything that could result in anything that I've listed above… i.e. you're only doing story line quests and nothing else… this is my question, "How are you gaining enough exp to stay at level with the quests given? and if you can solo them under level how can you keep them up before you're forced to do side quest which run the risk of you engaging in multiplayer content since this is a "single player game" from what some (not all) of you are telling me...

Edited by Jamalzero
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Amusing as hell. The usual BWbashers came out to do their thing while others simply gave their perspectives. Hopefully none of those perspectives that grated the cheese of BWbashers were reported for their insolence. An abuse of paid "privilege" that is all too common really. The people who spend all day in these parts trashing the game can't possibly be playing it unless they are posting while they play.

 

Or sleep is not important to them.

 

The game has both single-player and multiplayer elements until a character reaches end game, where multiplayer is a must to see its content. Welcome to MMOs, who by their very definition entails "more than just me." My wife and I are progressing through hard mode flashpoints with just us and our companions ... merely one rung below the start of final end game - operations. But we (being more than one player) are still classified as multiplayer.

 

What I find most astonishing is people calling themselves gamers coming into an MMO environment, where grouping is possible before a character ever sees its first mob, and complaining about the ability to group with others. Hello! There are a zillion titles on the market where a player can complete every objective in the game by themselves.

 

This is not one of those titles because this is an MMO. Anyone who states otherwise either hasn't played any advanced aspect of the game, or has an agenda that goes beyond playing the game. All one has to do is log in to realize that SWTOR is NOT a single player game if one wants to beat end game. But it can be a single player game for the 70% or so of the game that is not advanced multiplayer content.

 

There are hundreds of hours of gameplay there for the taking if a player wants to build their own private stable of toons, be relatively self-sufficient, and progress up to normal mode flashpoints. Past that, grouping is "forced" but that's why this is an MMO and not KOTOR. Should Bioware make a single player equivalent for an MMO end game, they will be the first developer to do so. Don't hold your breath.

 

You are exaggerating. MMORPGs provide content for both solo and group activity. Many players do group activity, many solo and many do both - it depends on what they want to do. And no-one is bashing Bioware for providing a full range of content. Don't know where you got that from. People wouldn't be subscribers if they did not like the game.

 

MMO does not mean "you have to group". All it it means is that you are playing in a persistent digital world with a huge number of other players - millions in some games if you count all players across all servers. Why people get hung up on letters escapes me. Typically the ones who do tend to omit the RPG bit which is very telling, as most are not on RP servers.

 

While it is true that most end game content is group activity, it is easier to develop challenging content for groups than for solo players who cover all the different classes, advanced classes etc. That usually requires an expansion. In my experience many, if not most, players are not interested in end game content for one reason or another. There is nothing in being an MMO that requires you to do it. OK, you miss some content. Stiff cheese. The game also offers both PvE and PvP but you don't have to do both if you don't want to. Solo players are no different to anyone else. Once they have levelled their characters or have just lost interest in the game they move on to the next game, often another MMORPG.

 

PS. Haven't seen anyone "complaining about the ability to group with others". And your reference to "insolence" because people are debating aspects of the game is a bit rich.

Edited by Vendd
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You are exaggerating. MMORPGs provide content for both solo and group activity. Many players do group activity, many solo and many do both - it depends on what they want to do. And no-one is bashing Bioware for providing a full range of content. Don't know where you got that from. People wouldn't be subscribers if they did not like the game.

 

MMO does not mean "you have to group". All it it means is that you are playing in a persistent digital world with a huge number of other players - millions in some games if you count all players across all servers. Why people get hung up on letters escapes me. Typically the ones who do tend to omit the RPG bit which is very telling, as most are not on RP servers.

 

While it is true that most end game content is group activity, it is easier to develop challenging content for groups than for solo players who cover all the different classes, advanced classes etc. That usually requires an expansion. In my experience many, if not most, players are not interested in end game content for one reason or another. There is nothing in being an MMO that requires you to do it. OK, you miss some content. Stiff cheese. The game also offers both PvE and PvP but you don't have to do both if you don't want to. Solo players are no different to anyone else. Once they have levelled their characters or have just lost interest in the game they move on to the next game, often another MMORPG.

 

PS. Haven't seen anyone "complaining about the ability to group with others". And your reference to "insolence" because people are debating aspects of the game is a bit rich.

 

I think this is the first post you've made where I can actually say, "I can agree with this" (not that you're looking for that or posting this for anyones approval).

 

"MMORPGs do provide content for both solo and group activity. Many players do group activity, many solo and many do both - it depends on what they want to do."

 

I can agree with this but this does not constitute the game to be called a single player game…

 

"MMO does not mean "you have to group". All it it means is that you are playing in a persistent digital world with a huge number of other players - millions in some games if you count all players across all servers."

 

Agreed MMO doesn't mean you must group up, you can solo everything; however, due to the fact that you are in a persistent environment of other players you can hardly call this a single player game…

 

"While it is true that most end game content is group activity, it is easier to develop challenging content for groups than for solo players who cover all the different classes, advanced classes etc. That usually requires an expansion. In my experience many, if not most, players are not interested in end game content for one reason or another."

 

Reading this thread i can agree with this also and I can believe this is what happens i guess this is why people have so many alts, or maybe they just want to see all eight stories.

 

"Stiff cheese."

 

That made me laugh lol

Edited by Jamalzero
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I love people missing the point.

Everyone agrees that this is not a single player game.

But that doesn't mean it should not be played solo, as the OP suggests. It can be played as the player desires.

 

So all your walls of text just to prove to us that it is not a single player game are useless -your missing the point.

All your rants about flashpoints, dps/tank role or whatever are not on the topic.

Your text about doing flashpoints in 10 minutes tells us much about you -you dont RP, you breeze through content to get as fast as possible to level 55 and grind dailies endlesly? In one of your previous post you wrote that you can't imagine anyone not doing dailies. Well -I've done Black Hole and part od Section X once, and not gonna repeat it.

It is boring for me. I don't play elder game as it is either boring dailies, or grouping with random, mostly rude people who want to finish a flashpoint in 10 minutes.

When I get to the end of class story, I basically stop playing the character, doing only some GTN to get money for new characters in my legacy.

So this is the game that can be played solo, and solo players pay for this game as much as raiders, pvpers and all others. If someone tells the solo player to "go and buy a vaccine" it is the same as someone coming to pvp and not trying to fight at all (I assume that would ruin a pvp experience), or being in flashpoint and just staring in stead of dpsing, tanking or whatever is needed there.

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In one of your previous post you wrote that you can't imagine anyone not doing dailies. Well -I've done Black Hole and part od Section X once, and not gonna repeat it.

 

I hope thats not aimed solely at me, but if it is I think you should re-read my posts because I never said (In this tread) i can't see anyone not doing dailies…what i said was i can't see anyone not doing dailies because of the credits inflow or missing out on new content but that was in the Forced rakghoul thread not this one lol so it makes sense in that thread..

 

mostly rude people who want to finish a flashpoint in 10 minutes.

 

when i do a lv 45 flashpoint ON MY 55 thats in almost full 78s and it takes longer than 10 minutes something is wrong…and besides when i do this i do it solo…where else am i gonna get 78k without selling things, and or doing more than 1 quest in 10 minutes???

 

doing only some GTN to get money for new characters in my legacy.
Sorry to tell you but…GTN isn't single player content... other players put things on the GTN and other players buy your items… This is why its not a single player game… If it was there would be no auction house………

 

So this is the game that can be played solo

Your previous paragraph contradicts this statement… Obviously the game can't be solo if you depend on other people to buy your stuff in the GTN so you have money for you alt in your legacy….:eek:

 

If someone tells the solo player to "go and buy a vaccine" it is the same as someone coming to pvp and not trying to fight at all (I assume that would ruin a pvp experience), or being in flashpoint and just staring in stead of dpsing, tanking or whatever is needed there.

 

Thus those people would be kicked from group placed on ignore and wouldn't enter with the same group twice but they aren't solo players they are players in a multiplayer game and your comparison is hardly accurate… telling someone go buy a vaccine is nothing like being in queue and getting a pop for a FP or WZ those are choice events are there now if you said its like being on a PvP server and someone crying about getting banked and they hate PvP and someone said, " Go to a PvE server" that is the equivalent of "Go buy a Vaccine"…

 

Everyone agrees that this is not a single player game.

 

Re-read the posts lol

 

"Vendd" and "Well" and I'm sure a few others that i missed have been going back and forth about this though i wouldn't take "Well" seriously.

 

 

But that doesn't mean it should not be played solo, as the OP suggests. It can be played as the player desires.

 

no one said it should not, could not, or would not be played solo (other than OP) or as the player desires we keep reiterating that this is a multiplayer game because and not a sinlge player game…It is a multi player game with single player aspects, and very few at that… The only thing about this game that is single player is the story UNLESS you have a group which then they can join you but since we are 20 some odd pages in ill repost the OP so people coming in know what to talk about to stay on point...

 

I just thought I should leave this warning for the new players and the few that still remain confused and complain whenever someone kills them while questing, throws a snowball at them, infects them, or something similar...

 

This is NOT a single player game, and you are no more entitled to control the other players actions towards you as you are in real life.

 

This is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game, meaning other people will interact with you and interfere with your gameplay, both in a way favorable to you, or not...

You must either accept this fact or rethink your decision of playing this genre of games.

 

 

I personally don't agree with the last sentence but he is right no one is more entitled to control the effects of what happens to their character from someone else's character as you would in real life….If i see you and you don't have the vaccine or the virus well bud 9/10 you're about to have it…nuff said

Edited by Jamalzero
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This is not a Single player game and people will interact with you whether you want them to or not…the fact that some of you got side tracked by saying this game is solo…you're only setting your self up for later when and even more annoying event comes out…or if people just want to F*** with you in game.

 

To site and example: in the Bounty hunter story line on Corellia there is a quest where you have to put 3 shock collars on 3 NPCs. This quest can take another route….NEVER FINISH IT… now you have the ultimate troll device… During the Rakghoul event (and i waited until now to say this because it hilarious to me) all those people that work so hard to get a set appearance and like to blow up on others with the rakghoul virus, I put a shock collar on them. Its a huge Arse collar that looks ugly as hell, it covers your neck and whatever armor you had on it make that collar stand out so you know its there… Furthermore it places a Debuff on your bar (don't be alarmed it causes no effect to your character other than appearance) however you cannot click the shock collar or unlike the Snowball, the Tinsel bomb, the Blue glitter, or the Red Glitter. this stays on you ruining your look UNTIL DEATH thats literally the only way to get it off…So if people wanna blow up on me i put a shock collar on them now they have to commit suicide (in game) to get it off HAHAHAHAHAHAHA the victim griefs the griefer lol as some of you might say….However if i took and unlikely turn to this and just ran around placing this on people never telling them how to get it off well your whole world about "Single player game" just got shattered. Now I don't do this but I could easily very easily…I only did this during the event to troll the rakghoul plauge spreaders.

 

But the fact you think this game can be played solo no…..no it cannot. I will agree If you say SOME content can be played solo that is the correct assessment but the whole game cannot be played solo…

 

On PvP servers when i just started the game and didn't know what griefing was Ill be honest I camped instances on tattooine with my assassins and waited tip republic toons walked out or just ran inside the bases and killed the lowbie pubs and NPC guards. I stopped doing that once a guildie said thats messed up would you like it if someone did that to you and i stopped and haven't done it since

 

Also may i refer you to said link for more proof of this being a multiplayer game…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16TiZ4f8uWY its just Imperials on section x in the republic base minding their own business until some republic toon got s little full of himself lol

Edited by Jamalzero
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Griefing is griefing and should be called out wherever it occurs. A griefer is defined as "(in an online game or community) a person who harasses or deliberately provokes other players or members in order to spoil their enjoyment". That is exactly what is happening on the Fleet as part of the Rakghoul event. Griefers know full well what they are doing and that they are imposing a repetitive and frequent interrupt effect on other players thereby spoiling their enjoyment of the game.

 

I disagree with you here. The definition of griefing includes the caveat "in order to spoil their enjoyment". The so-called 'griefers' in this thread (or at least, the half of the posts that I read) have sadi that the reason they are infecting others is for a quest, achievements, and so on. Not to spoil others' fun.

 

So, by definition, the 'event lovers' are not griefers.

 

And this is coming from someone who isn't too keen on the event. I think it's a pain in the *** unless you are level 55.

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You are exaggerating. MMORPGs provide content for both solo and group activity. Many players do group activity, many solo and many do both - it depends on what they want to do. And no-one is bashing Bioware for providing a full range of content. Don't know where you got that from. People wouldn't be subscribers if they did not like the game.

 

MMO does not mean "you have to group". All it it means is that you are playing in a persistent digital world with a huge number of other players - millions in some games if you count all players across all servers. Why people get hung up on letters escapes me. Typically the ones who do tend to omit the RPG bit which is very telling, as most are not on RP servers.

 

While it is true that most end game content is group activity, it is easier to develop challenging content for groups than for solo players who cover all the different classes, advanced classes etc. That usually requires an expansion. In my experience many, if not most, players are not interested in end game content for one reason or another. There is nothing in being an MMO that requires you to do it. OK, you miss some content. Stiff cheese. The game also offers both PvE and PvP but you don't have to do both if you don't want to. Solo players are no different to anyone else. Once they have levelled their characters or have just lost interest in the game they move on to the next game, often another MMORPG.

 

PS. Haven't seen anyone "complaining about the ability to group with others". And your reference to "insolence" because people are debating aspects of the game is a bit rich.

You are correct (to my knowledge anyway) in that no one is bashing Bioware for providing a full range of content - myself included. My post (albeit verbose) extolled the game's virtues of accommodating both group and solo play. Referencing your concern, "It's a single player games with a bunch of poorly programmed bots" qualifies as an earlier post example that my comment addressed. Drive-by flame jobs and astroturfing are unfortunately part of today's digital culture - MMOs notwithstanding.

 

There are numerous threads in these forums discussing a perceived inability to group with others. I find that many of the opinions that paint grouping as a painful exercise stem from experiences with ninjas, players quitting, getting kicked, spacebarring or not spacebarring, long queues for DPS types, good old fashioned griefing, etc. Other than spacebar it's all MMO related imho, not game related. The insolence part was sarcasm. If it offended I apologize.

 

I agree with you thoroughly in that having myriad options available for both grouped and solo play are a good thing. Your point about many, if not most, players not being interested in end game content for one reason or another is a valid one. While I conversely believe that many may be interested in it, I also perceive that many won't engage it simply because of the "hardcore" elements associated with it. Full on raiding requires a time investment that most casuals can't afford.

 

End game progression takes preparation, min/max fine tuning (though maybe not as precise here as it is in other games), teamwork and reps. I know a lot of casuals who "raid" and are good at it. They simply can't commit to a schedule, or may not be available for 5 hour uninterrupted stretches on a random basis. As casuals comprise the majority of the MMORPG player landscape, the hardcore minority becomes the majority of end game hobbyists.

 

Ostensibly, some simply don't want to mess with anything outside of a game's path of least resistance. This same path of least resistance play style results in some who would vocalize a lack of things to do in a game where 2/3s of its content resides outside of that path. They aren't burning up the content, they are blowing past it. Not the same thing. Though they may tirelessly try to sell them as being one in the same.

 

You are absolutely spot on - people will engage an extracurricular activity until something else interests them more. They may do something else in addition to it to add variety. They may leave for something else entirely. If they leave they may come back, or they may not. There is no wrong choice there unless they try making other people's experiences miserable because of their decision to engage an activity that they don't enjoy. The old phrase "a bichy sailor is a happy sailor" only applies when leaving means suffering non-judicial punishment consequences.

Edited by GalacticKegger
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My comment was that even thought this is a multiplayer game it is possible to play entirely solo. That being an MMO doesn't mean you are required to interact with others unless you chose to outside of a PVP server.
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My comment was that even thought this is a multiplayer game it is possible to play entirely solo. That being an MMO doesn't mean you are required to interact with others unless you chose to outside of a PVP server.

This is true, and I don't disagree with this. I also believe that if someone wants to play solo, they should be able to.

 

THAT SAID, this game is in fact an MMO. And it can be seen that Bioware will put things in it that "shake things up" and push the solo players out of their "soloness". The HK-51 quest line is a classic example. You can like or dislike that this happens. But it does.

 

I have no truck with the purely solo players. But I do dislike seeing posts that sound like "I'm being FORCED to do something not solo and it's NOT OKAY".

 

The only way to be assured of not being FORCED out of a solo play experience, is to play a single-player game.

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Plague vaccine is 2000 creds sell some crafted **** in the market. A level 10-15 character should be able to easily sell some protype level **** for 10-20k if he/she works on crafting a little bit. I've never had a problem doing this. Is the plauge annoying? Hell yes! Does it add an immersive factor to the game? Also yes! It adds life to what could easily be a very mundane MMO. So please take your medicine or don't play untill the plague is over, it only lasts a week. And if you are a FTP player you really shouldn't be complaining at all as you have no skin in the game.
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My comment was that even thought this is a multiplayer game it is possible to play entirely solo. That being an MMO doesn't mean you are required to interact with others unless you chose to outside of a PVP server.

You're not required to interact with them but you are required to deal with their presence.

Edited by branmakmuffin
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Personly I usually prefer to do story missions and sidequests on my own.

 

That way I can do it all at my own pace, take breaks to talk with other people at home, go to the bathroom without having to type anything first, have lunch, or just play half an hour before heading too work or so.

 

When I have more time I do queue for groupfinder to do some FP's, and there I do like the multiplayer content. Heroics seem completely useless on the later planets however. Usually not that many people here and I rather just keep doing my quest chains instead of traveling all around to an heroic that turns out to be far away from me and that really doesnt offer much of a reward either to make it worthwhile.

 

PvP I won't touch, tried it a bit but most of the time its no fun at all. Either you win without much resistance, or you get completely beaten without a chance of winning. Matches that are even never occured much to me, not nearly often enough at least. Just the same few maps again and again, and that one with the crystal gathering is simply the worst.

 

Tried starfighter for less than a minute, not my thing. Never liked any kind of flying in any game though.

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