Starglitter Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Mmm... MMORPG stands for many things, and it is a critical error to get stuck in any given letter, and then classify the game by it. The OP is stuck on the Mass part, and thus for those who want to play in a single mode are obviously in error, a logical conclusion based on a flawed principle that was established about twenty years ago. Today's MMORPGs are being designed to satisfy a much wider market or distribution of players, such as Role Players, Person vs Person for instance. It is truly arrogant of anyone to think that their preference is the one and only one way of play, and thus anyone else's preference, if different, is just dumb or obtuse. While there are mechanics that allows for interaction between players, there is an expectation of courtesy and respect for each other, and when folks simply does not observe them, the term griefing comes to mind. For myself, I have grown to hate the past few events provided by Bioware for they seem to induce griefing by possibly maliciously minded players. If you have to get stuck with a letter, following the principle save the best for last, focus in the letter "G" That is "game". This is a game after all and we all play, ironically, to have fun. Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 WHAT!?!??!?!!??!? I thought I was playing a single player game with the most advanced AI in history. One which posts in the "chat window" that I can buy credits on a website, buys and sells things on the GTN from a variety of toon names, posts in the "chat window" about wanting someone to ERP with, and even forms up into groups with me and talks to me via voice chat in an unrelated program. I am SHOCKED by this revelation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenVirtues Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 CoD you can play the single player campaign offline. Not with SWTOR because it doesn't have SP. It's only during special events that other players an interact with you without your consent. But with snowballs and this Rakghoul thing, I really don't get it, either buy a vaccine or stand by the GTN for 10 minutes, explode and get the free exp, then go back to your missions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Taking a vaccine after you've already contracted a virus doesn't really make sense... How about the fact that Republic players are exposed to the disease on Taris, and their immunity to it is used to create said vacine. That's right, the Republic players are supposed to already be immune to it, bit of a plot gap there I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenVirtues Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 How about the fact that Republic players are exposed to the disease on Taris, and their immunity to it is used to create said vacine. That's right, the Republic players are supposed to already be immune to it, bit of a plot gap there I think. Not everyone in the republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qvasar Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) This is nonsense. Within the rules of the game each of us can play the game in whichever way we want. This definition of MMORPG is just plain wrong as even a cursory look at Wikipedia's article on MMORPGs shows. Luckily the OP does not dictate how the game is to be played. Contrary to his implication, most MMORPGs including SWTOR have rules to prevent people interfering with other people's game play in an unwanted manner. Please take a closer look at the rules of conduct, for example: Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." There is an achievement to kill 1000 players on Alderaan, so I decide to camp some popular quest objective to advance y achievement - NOT harassment.There is an achievement to infect 1000 players with the Rakghoul plague, so I get infected, and proceed to find the largest group of people I can and infect them all - NOT harassment. I could keep listing items which annoy people and are completely within the game mechanics and for which there are rewards. After that I could go into the role playing domain and claim that I my character is just a bad guy and it would still not be harassment. The only way something can be classified as harassment is if someone intentionally wants to distress another player and continuously disrupts their gameplay with that sole purpose. The annoying thing about the Rakghoul event is that, contrary to SWTOR's own Rules of Conduct, players are having their game play adversely affected in an unwanted manner by others trying to hinder their game play. How exactly? Does catching an infection which you can prevent and/or cure hinder your gameplay? These "griefers", as they are known in other MMORPGs, continually try to interfere with players simply trying to read their mail, to trade some items at the trading post or to access their cargo holds. Being infected does not prevent you from reading mail, trading items, or access your cargo holds. It doesn't eve interrupt those actions. That people can buy a vaccine at a cost of 2000t is not good enough. Why should people who do not wish to participate in the event have to bear the cost. The vaccine should be provided for free to all who wish to opt out. Because as I do NOT dictate how you play your game neither can you dictate how I play mine. BioWare decided that participation in the event was to be rewarded (achievements, mission rewards, reputation items) and not participating carried a cost (vaccines/relic). ========================================== Today's MMORPGs are being designed to satisfy a much wider market or distribution of players, such as Role Players, Person vs Person for instance. It is truly arrogant of anyone to think that their preference is the one and only one way of play, and thus anyone else's preference, if different, is just dumb or obtuse. You completely missed my point. this is exactly what I'm defending. I can play the game however I see fit, and so can you. No one has the right to tell me if I can infect him or not. While there are mechanics that allows for interaction between players, there is an expectation of courtesy and respect for each other, and when folks simply does not observe them, the term griefing comes to mind. I want the achievement for infecting 1000 players, I expect other players to respect that. Edited January 22, 2014 by Qvasar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendd Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 "Being infected does not prevent you from reading mail, trading items, or access your cargo holds. It doesn't eve interrupt those actions .... etc .... etc ....." More nonsense. Your own definition of what a MMORPG is was incorrect. Your extended argument is simply self serving. The fundamental premise of SWTOR's own Rules of Conduct is to prevent people from interfering in other people's game play in an unwanted manner. The Rakghoul Event allows for this to happen. In that way it trashes the "spirit" of the Rules of Conduct. I don't deny that Bioware is capable of implementing bad game design and breaching the spirit of its own Rules of Conduct. I merely note that it is self-defeating game design which annoys many of its subscribers. After all why stop with 4 second freezes every 15 secs or so and the spewing of green bile. Why not include violent diarrhea and events that incapacitate other players for days on end preventing all access to mail boxes, the GTN and cargo holds, perhaps combined with trials and years in SWTOR jails for the perpetrators. After all that would be more realistic. But it would all still just be bad game design and in the end self defeating for a commercial operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimdante Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Just buy the vaccine and carry on. It's like getting a flu shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendd Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Just buy the vaccine and carry on. It's like getting a flu shot. Why should someone who does not wish to participate in the Rakghoul event have to buy a vaccine which lasts for a few hours. Republic players who have completed Taris are already immunized. Also some of us have many alts. It would be far better and more realistic for plague spreaders on the Fleet to have to pay hefty fines and be incapacitated in SWTOR hospital/ jail for a few weeks. Even I could support that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalzero Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I understand where most of you come from but as im reading this post it seems that none of you ney sayers have actually done this event... I to was on your side and was fed up about this Rakgoul event once i was having coughing, upset stomach, ouking fits in a huttball match...I left immediately and got the vaccine for 2k. I know 2k credits arent much but the vaccine stays on you and protects you for 5 hours UNLESS you die... which in that case you have to re-apply it. Now in game and im sure this has been brought up...for us that dont want the virus why doesnt the vacination persist through death??? I still raise that question today; however, after many trolls and TW-ATs on the fleet saying, "credit ain my problem, you mad bro, its just 2k, oh no 2k *insert jerk off motion*" I know its only 2k but 2k tends to add up after a while...but after all of that someone with a some decentcy whispered me, go to Alderaan and do the quest enough to get the "Newcomer" rep and you can buy a re-useable vaccination for 1k. The re-useable vaccination may not be a persist through death like i want but i no longer have to shell out 100k every so so many PvP warzones I go in. I support OP and im on his side with this...just do the quest get the reuseable vaccination and your alts will be ok and you never have to worry about this even if you wanna opt-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendd Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 "that none of you ney sayers have actually done this event..." Nor do some of us wish to. But the complaint is not about the event on Alderaan or elsewhere. It is about griefers interfering in the game play of people trying to access mail, the GTN cargo holds, trainers and the like. Plague spreaders being allowed to roam unmolested on the Fleet Ships and capital cities lacks immersion and any sort of "realism" whatsoever. It is just plain silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Fact: This game is an MMO. Fact: you dont have to play with other people if you dont want to. That is, you can play solo and ignore any content that requires a group. That is your choice, and is neither "right" or "wrong". You have no more right to tell other people how to play then they would have telling you how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalzero Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 again if you wish to opt-out of something thats beyond your control just do the quests on Alderaan... they scale to your level just like the bounty hunter week event. NEWCOMERall you need is 2500 rep to achieve that rank in reputation, you get the quest on the fleet and head to alderaan pop 250 rep....1/8 there, if you have 8 alts thats all you have to do... its that easy...........you literally just have to run 8 alts through the starter quest for the event and BOOM 2500 rep > buy reuseable vaccination for 1k > opt-out complete. Bioware gave you a way out...just take my advice and do the starter if you dont wanna dig in and do the quests for real. honestly they arent that bad... click here click there walk back to entrance done 250 rep, oh noes i have the virus...well let me que up for PvP and pop...hehehe walk in the center where everyone is fighting and BOOOOOOOOOOOM another quest complete bc i spread the virus another 250 rep gained whoa now these quests are hard.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qvasar Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Why should someone who does not wish to participate in the Rakghoul event have to buy a vaccine which lasts for a few hours. TL;DR: Because you decided to opt-out of the event. Had you decided otherwise you wouldn't have to pay anything, in fact you would make credits. It's your own choice, just because you think the event is opt-in it doesn't mean it is. Fact: This game is an MMO. Fact: you dont have to play with other people if you dont want to. That is, you can play solo and ignore any content that requires a group. That is your choice, and is neither "right" or "wrong". You have no more right to tell other people how to play then they would have telling you how to play. I couldn't have said it better myself. This is the reason you can't tell other players that you do not wish to be infected, they play the game however they like, and you are free to react how every you like (buy vaccine, kill them if they are in the opposing faction, log off for a week, etc...) Edited January 23, 2014 by Qvasar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendd Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) "This is the reason you can't tell other players that you do not wish to be infected" Not sure if you are simply being obtuse here or are just trolling. I am not forcing other PLAYERS to do anything. I am expressing an opinion on this forum that this Event, by including a mechanic that allows for griefing of non-participants in the Event, is poor game design, contradicts the spirit of the Rules of Conduct, and stupidly imposes a financial (and other) penalty on players who do not wish to participate in the Event. Edited January 23, 2014 by Vendd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qvasar Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 I am not forcing other PLAYERS to do anything. I am expressing an opinion on this forum that this Event, by including a mechanic that allows for griefing of non-participants in the Event, is poor game design, contradicts the spirit of the Rules of Conduct, and stupidly imposes a financial (and other) penalty on players who do not wish to participate in the Event. I have no objections to anyone expressing their opinion, but that is not all you are doing. You are calling me, and pretty much anyone actively engaged in this event, a griefer. And for what reason exactly? Because we're doing what we are supposed to do - infect people. How do I know this is what we're supposed to be doing? There are quests and achievements and rewards for it. Seriously, it is pretty clear that BioWare wants people to people to infect each other as much as possible. Hence the quest rewards, and the immunity penalty. If you disagree with their design, you can post a thread saying "I don't feel it is appropriate for other people to infect me because...", but what you absolutely can NOT do is say event participants are griefing/harrasing/interfering with your gameplay, etc... You don't see me posting a thread saying vaccine users are griefing me do you? You may feel it would be illogical to do so, but please, try to complete the "Infect 3 players." quest on 4 different characters every day. People who are vaccinated interfere with my ability to complete a simple quest. Something that could be done in 20 minutes usually takes 2 hours. Do you feel this is fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweessies Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I have no objections to anyone expressing their opinion, but that is not all you are doing. You are calling me, and pretty much anyone actively engaged in this event, a griefer. And for what reason exactly? Because we're doing what we are supposed to do - infect people. How do I know this is what we're supposed to be doing? There are quests and achievements and rewards for it. Seriously, it is pretty clear that BioWare wants people to people to infect each other as much as possible. Hence the quest rewards, and the immunity penalty. If you disagree with their design, you can post a thread saying "I don't feel it is appropriate for other people to infect me because...", but what you absolutely can NOT do is say event participants are griefing/harrasing/interfering with your gameplay, etc... You don't see me posting a thread saying vaccine users are griefing me do you? You may feel it would be illogical to do so, but please, try to complete the "Infect 3 players." quest on 4 different characters every day. People who are vaccinated interfere with my ability to complete a simple quest. Something that could be done in 20 minutes usually takes 2 hours. Do you feel this is fair? I hate to use logic on a gaming forum, but when you accept a quest whose stated purpose is for you to grief 3 other players, you are in fact agreeing to become a griefer. The only way to avoid being a griefer in this case is to give a bad quest like the "infect 3 players" quest a decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qvasar Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 I hate to use logic on a gaming forum, but when you accept a quest whose stated purpose is for you to grief 3 other players, you are in fact agreeing to become a griefer. The only way to avoid being a griefer in this case is to give a bad quest like the "infect 3 players" quest a decline. Your logic is flawed. The quest gives me experience, credits, reputation tokens, event currency, and counts towards achievements. Why would I not take it? Because it involves a sort of "gag" which can be dealt with easily by the targeted player? C'mon... I really start to think people these days are too stuck up. When I was a kid, during Carnival (I know this isn't popular in the US), it wasn't uncommon for someone to throw a raw egg at you, or a sack of flour, or water balloon on the street. It was annoying of course, but people laughed it off because it was a seasonal joke. I start to think you would find it a criminal offense... Lighten up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altyrell Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Taking a vaccine after you've already contracted a virus doesn't really make sense... Anyway, this game hardly "attempts to "replicate" what would happen if you contracted a disease." That's just dumb. It's just a mechanic, nothing to do with realism. Also, there's supposed to be a quarantine, yet people are running around exploding all over the place. Hardly realistic, is it? Not to mention, if it actually replicated what happens when someone is infected with the Rakghoul Plague, our Characters would be turned into Rakghouls yet we don't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweessies Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Your logic is flawed. The quest gives me experience, credits, reputation tokens, event currency, and counts towards achievements. Why would I not take it? Because it involves a sort of "gag" which can be dealt with easily by the targeted player? C'mon... I really start to think people these days are too stuck up. When I was a kid, during Carnival (I know this isn't popular in the US), it wasn't uncommon for someone to throw a raw egg at you, or a sack of flour, or water balloon on the street. It was annoying of course, but people laughed it off because it was a seasonal joke. I start to think you would find it a criminal offense... Lighten up! Assault is not a joke, sorry. Just accept that you're temporarily griefing, it's not like it's the end of the world. Although it might be the end of the world for a few subscriptions if this is the level of effort the dev team is now investing in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamalzero Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Assault is not a joke, sorry. Just accept that you're temporarily griefing, it's not like it's the end of the world. Although it might be the end of the world for a few subscriptions if this is the level of effort the dev team is now investing in the game. No one is asking you to stay... We're asking you to pipe down > get 2500 rep (which isnt hard hell if you solo the heroic thats 1440 out of the way right there) > and buy the reuseable vaccine.......seriously its a 1 time buy for 1k.....how hard is that really??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohpipoca Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Assault is not a joke, sorry right, fun police status confirmed. pls improve the community by uninstalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendd Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Your logic is flawed. The quest gives me experience, credits, reputation tokens, event currency, and counts towards achievements. Why would I not take it? You don't seem to know what logic means. Sorry, but there is no logic in your response to Dweessies. His logic however is impeccable. All you are doing is stating you want the goodies that go with the achievement. That is better described as your desire or wish, not "logic". I for example might desire all plague spreaders to be forcibly confined to their quarters till all signs of the plague are over and that they pay hefty fines to all persons being griefed - far more "realistic" as to what would actually happen, but that is just my wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vendd Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 No one is asking you to stay... We're asking you to pipe down That is very arrogant of you. Dweessies has as much right to his opinion as you do. Perhaps you should consider taking your own advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It's a bit difficult to find a group of lvl50s to do heroics (especially the event one). Lvl55s just tell me to go home and level up because lvl50s are still "babies with fragile armor". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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