In-depth PVE Powertech/Vanguard tank guide

[MGNMTTRN]

Hey folks. I've collaborated with Paowee (who you might know from several high ranking 16man and 8man guilds, from swtorboard.org, and/or as the Sniper class representative) to upload a pretty detailed Powertech/Vanguard PVE tanking guide to his website.

 

9/29/2014 EDIT: Paowee's site has been down for a while. The guide has been uploaded to my Google Drive at

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B166fRA6k_tzVER3ZU1ZbHpYM0E/edit?usp=sharing

 

10/28/2014 EDIT: PS, I'm probably not going to translate it to Powertech terms. Sorry.

Edited October 29, 2014 by MGNMTTRN

[Mathemagica]

Interesting stuff, especially the part about the Ion Cell dot. The guide covers pretty much everything I know about Shield Tech/Shield Specialist (and more).

A few words about smart use of Kolto Release/Adrenaline Rush might help more advanced players - something I'm still uncertain about myself, because it depends so much on your healers.

 

I have two question though (I can't check it in-game right now and the internet didn't help):

1) Isn't Explosive Dart/Sticky Grenade considered a ranged attack too, i.e. it can proc Ion Cell? Since the proc chance on it is only 15% on each target, it's pretty weak, but this would be worth to keep in mind for AoE-situations.

 

2) Does Shoulder Cannon interrupt the later ticks of Rapid Shot/Hammer Shot? Shoulder Cannon works somewhat differently than attacks that are off the GCD, so it would be worth testing.

[MGNMTTRN]

(PS: if anyone attempted to access swtorboard.org between approximately 1/20 and 1/22, his site was having problems. He has since rolled back an update so it should be displaying correctly now)

 

Sticky grenade/explosive dart is definitely tech, not ranged.

 

That question about hammershot loss was good; I investigated it further. Backing log is here: http://www.torparse.com/a/564488

The conclusion I'm landing on for now is: hammershot loss is not consistently reproducible so for now it's not as big a deal as I claimed in the guide, if the problem even exists. However, taunt's animation delay is definitely doing funny things.

 

In fight 1 at 14:57:19.360 I lose 4 ticks of Hammershot due to taunt interrupting the animation

In fight 2 at 14:58:07.226 I tried to interrupt my Hammershot with a taunt, but all 7 attacks are present in the log. Note however that the log looks like this:

14:58:07.226 Metallic activates Neural Jolt.

14:58:07.281 Operations Training Dummy dodges Metallic's Hammer Shot, causing 1 threat.

14:58:07.282 Metallic's Hammer Shot hits Operations Training Dummy for 121 energy damage, causing 243 threat.

14:58:07.296 Metallic's Hammer Shot hits Operations Training Dummy for 108 energy damage, causing 216 threat.

14:58:07.297 Metallic's Hammer Shot misses Operations Training Dummy, causing 1 threat.

14:58:07.553 Metallic's Neural Jolt adds effect Taunt to Operations Training Dummy.

14:58:07.804 Metallic taunts Operations Training Dummy, causing 340 threat.

14:58:08.897 Metallic's Hammer Shot hits Operations Training Dummy for 111 energy damage, causing 222 threat.

14:58:08.898 Metallic's Hammer Shot hits Operations Training Dummy for 117 energy damage, causing 235 threat.

14:58:08.898 Metallic's Hammer Shot hits Operations Training Dummy for 103 energy damage, causing 206 threat.

The taunt effect would have been reasonable if it built off the threat of all Hammershot ticks ((1+243+216+1+222+235+206)*0.3 = 337.2) but the threat is given several tenths of a second before those hammershots appear in the log.

 

In fight 2 I also tested Riot gas; it didn't interrupt any animations in that case.

 

In fight 3 I tested Shoulder Cannon. At 14:58:34.573 it didn't interrupt Hammershot.

At 14:58:38.560 it didn't interrupt Hammershot.

At 14:58:39.152 note that Shoulder Cannon was resisted:

Metallic's Shoulder Cannon hits Operations Training Dummy for 0 damage, causing 1 threat.

Also note that there was no subsequent self-healing from Guard cannon. so if Shoulder Cannon resist -> no self-healing, that's a pretty sizable decrease in self healing per second overall.

//todo check whether shoulder cannon is active or tech

At 14:58:40.787 Energy blast didn't interrupt Hammershot's animation.

 

In fight 4 I tested Energy Blast a bit more; it didn't interrupt any Hammershot animations.

 

Since there were almost no Hammershot interruptions, I reparsed those animation interrupters that I initially found (taunt and Hold the Line). I uploaded that to a new log and found no animation interruptions :T

 

For reference, the excerpt from the original combat log where I posted the problem is at http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6660038&postcount=24

 

For now I'm pretty disappointed. The problem is present in the original report, but it's not reproducible here. I'm going to redo the tests at some time when the servers and/or my home internet connection is saturated because lag will definitely help me to coax the problem out.

 

Unfortunately I don't have a Powertech so I can't say with any certainty how it works for you people.

[Mathemagica]

Another piece of misinformation in my head detected and eliminated. Thanks.

 

Just a little theory: It seems possible to me that the issue arises when the animation of Hammer/Rapid Shots gets interrupted by another animation. This kind of thing might be hard to detect in the combat log alone, because many abilities of Vanguards/Powertechs have a travel time to their target, so the actual damage and the animation don't happen simultaneously.

I will be able to experiment on my Powertechs in about two weeks. If I get any interesting results, I will post it here.

[Arkedius]

hmm, and i always though vanguard tanking and PT tanking was absolutely the same.

 

Good stuff even though im brand new to the game and class.

[HBCentaurion]

Nice write up of PT tanking.

 

I notice that you don't prioritize Flame Burst that much which differs from what I do. I think it's the best filler ability, and I use it generously (on average around 25% of my damage comes from Flame Burst). The priority I have:

• Heat Blast (use on CD)
  
• Rocket Punch (use on CD)
  
• Rail Shot (use on CD)
  
• Flamethrower (top priority when Flame Engine procs, otherwise use on CD)
  
• Flame Burst
  
• Shoulder Cannon
  
• Rapid Shots
  
• Death From Above (can be used on boss, but the targeting can be a pain)
  
• Flame Sweep (AOE-aggro)
  
• Unload (don't use unless OT at range)
  
• Explosive Dart (don't use unless you need AOE-aggro)
  

 

I am running a 37 / 7 / 3 build with 3 points in Integrated Cardio Package and 2 in Hot Iron. Usually I'm doing around 1.2-1.3k DPS on boss fights. I would probably do more if I put 1 point in Advanced Tools and 2 in Iron First instead of 3 in Intergrated Cardio Package), but I like the 3% to Endurance.

[Transcendent]

I'd love to get feedback about whether you find it accurate, useful, and if there's anything we can change in order to make the guide better.

 

Definitely helped me figure out some form of rotation, and what procs what etc. Thanks, i've literally just levelled my PT to 55 as of yesterday and was trying to figure things out.

 

Also, is the stat allocation guide table accurate - http://swtorboard.org/2014/01/02/swtor-tank-gear-guide/, seems to swap priority mid table about 1800 from defence to shield?

[MGNMTTRN]

Definitely helped me figure out some form of rotation, and what procs what etc. Thanks, i've literally just levelled my PT to 55 as of yesterday and was trying to figure things out.

 

Also, is the stat allocation guide table accurate - http://swtorboard.org/2014/01/02/swtor-tank-gear-guide/, seems to swap priority mid table about 1800 from defence to shield?

Yep. The gist of what happens there is: before you accrue 1800 mitigation points, it's more effective to get a lot of defense and hope that you dodge a lot of attacks. By the time you get 1900 mitigation points, you have so many mitigation points and so many of them are in defense that you're not getting much return from putting more points into defense; at that point you can afford to divert points from defense into absorb and shield.

[TACeMossie]

Yep. The gist of what happens there is: before you accrue 1800 mitigation points, it's more effective to get a lot of defense and hope that you dodge a lot of attacks. By the time you get 1900 mitigation points, you have so many mitigation points and so many of them are in defense that you're not getting much return from putting more points into defense; at that point you can afford to divert points from defense into absorb and shield.

 

That and as the stat budget goes up, the shield stat will naturally go up. With a higher shield stat, points in absorb become more valuable.

 

E.g. if you have a 20% shield chance, its better getting 2% defense than 5% absorb. But with a 40% shield chance, its about even.

[Transcendent]

Useful to know, thanks

[Mathemagica]

Ok, so here's what I could observe on my Powertech. Some abilities that are off the GCD will interrupt the animation of Rapid Shots, when triggered while using Rapid Shots, resulting in less than five ticks. Unfortunately torparse refuses to upload my parse, so all I write here is based on observations in-game.

 

Skills that do NOT interrupt Rapid Shots:

Shoulder Cannon

Quell

Heat Blast

Vent Heat

Thermal Sensor Override

Explosive Fuel

Clicky relics

 

Skills that do interrupt Rapid Shots:

Both taunts

Oil Slick

Hydraulic Override

Kolto Overload

 

Skills that behaved weird while testing:

Energy Shield. I know for sure, that it didn't interrupt Rapid Shots at least once, but sometimes I had the impression, that it did. Without a detailed combat log, I also couldn't verify for sure, if the activation of Energy Shield gets delayed, when it doesn't interrupt Rapid Shots.

 

I'm not really happy with my observations, because I still don't see why certain abilities are listed where I listed them.

[MGNMTTRN]

That list is really awesome to know! Glad someone is able to replicate the phenomenon.

[Mathemagica]

That list is really awesome to know! Glad someone is able to replicate the phenomenon.

 

It's worth noting, that this matters for every Bounty Hunter/Trooper, not just tanks. I never played Pyro/Assault, but from what I understand you really want every tick of Hammer Shot/Rapid Shot on your target to increase the chance to proc your cylinder.

Also: I highly recommend to doublecheck the list I gave. As it is, it is very heuristic and I am known to make mistakes.

[Blockk]

Hey folks. I've collaborated with Paowee (who you might know from several high ranking 16man and 8man guilds, from swtorboard.org, and/or as the Sniper class representative) to upload a pretty detailed Powertech/Vanguard PVE tanking guide to his website. The Vanguard guide is a bit more clear and it's uploaded at http://swtorboard.org/2014/01/21/shield-specialist-vanguard-tank-guide/ . The Powertech version is at http://swtorboard.org/2014/01/21/shield-tech-powertech-tanking-guide/

 

I'd love to get feedback about whether you find it accurate, useful, and if there's anything we can change in order to make the guide better.

 

I cant get past the big as* ad with your link

 

As I just hit 55 I was looking to find out what to aim for Shield/Absorb/Defence numbers ?

 

My Jugg has all Defence Augs but I thought PT Tank may need all Shield Augs

 

Cheers

[Mathemagica]

I cant get past the big as* ad with your link

 

As I just hit 55 I was looking to find out what to aim for Shield/Absorb/Defence numbers ?

 

My Jugg has all Defence Augs but I thought PT Tank may need all Shield Augs

 

Cheers

 

B'oarder, who was responsible for the homepage where the guide was posted, has left the game quite a while ago. The homepage went down at that time and all the guides there became unavailable, which is quite a pity.

 

If MGN... is still around, he might still have the guide and can post it on the forums. It is more about playstyle and less about gearing though (as far as I remember).

 

For gearing, I recommend checking KBNs thread in the 'Role'-subforum (within the class forum). It's currently the only thread in that subforum and it's stickied. Impossible to miss.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Mathemagica

[Blockk]

B'oarder, who was responsible for the homepage where the guide was posted, has left the game quite a while ago. The homepage went down at that time and all the guides there became unavailable, which is quite a pity.

 

If MGN... is still around, he might still have the guide and can post it on the forums. It is more about playstyle and less about gearing though (as far as I remember).

 

For gearing, I recommend checking KBNs thread in the 'Role'-subforum (within the class forum). It's currently the only thread in that subforum and it's stickied. Impossible to miss.

 

Thanks mate

[MGNMTTRN]

Hey folks, Boarder was hosting the guide on *his site but his site went down. Sorry about not updating my signature for so long. I've uploaded the guide to my Google Drive:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B166fRA6k_tzVER3ZU1ZbHpYM0E/edit?usp=sharing

 

Please let me know if it doesn't work. Thanks for your interest!

 

Edit: Boarder was hosting the guide on his site, not my site

Edited October 1, 2014 by MGNMTTRN

[Mathemagica]

The link works for me. Thank you very much.

 

I have one comment to the guide. I only skimmed it and didn't read it all over again, but I think you didn't cover the following:

Suppose Flame Engine just procced, starting its internal 18s cooldown. You immediately use Flamethrower, starting its 16.5s cooldown. When Flamethrower comes off cooldown, you immediately use it again with no proc. Halfway through your Flamethrower-channel, the internal cooldown of Flame Engine will end and now suppose it so happens that you proc Flame Engine while still channelling Flamethrower. What happens now is the following:

 

1) Your Flamethrower cooldown gets reset while still channeling the first Flamethrower giving you a second Flamethrower channel.

2) When the first Flamethrower ends, you lose the Flame Engine proc which makes your next Flamethrower cost heat and having a 3s-channel. You end up with two Flamethrower channels, but both of them are heat-expensive and slow.

 

I don't know if it's possible to exploit Flame Engine by clipping the two Flamethrowers. As far as I recall, the 1.5s-channel cannot be saved by clipping. The heat cost might be avoidable, I didn't check.

 

Note that once the above happens, the internal cooldown of Flame Engine gets triggered 1.5s before the second Flamethrower is used. Therefore, Flame Engine now gets off cooldown at the same time as Flamethrower, allowing for Flame Engine to proc during the whole 3s Flamethrower-channel, increasing the chance that Flame Engine can not be fully exploited.

 

I didn't play my Powertech in a while and I'm currently unable to play at all, so this is a phenomenon which I saw several months ago and can't test right now. It might have been changed, but if it hasn't one might advocate to spend a talent-point to reduce the Flamethrower-cooldown to 15s. Due to lag, human error and delays of Flamethrower, the same scenario might still occur, but it is less likely which might (needs to be tested) result in higher dps and tps.

[Machiavellian_J]

Thanks for the re-upload. I'm new to the game and currently leveling up a bounty hunter and I plan on going powertech and trying my hand at tanking. Is this guide still relevant as of patch 2.10?

[-Quagmire-]

The link works for me. Thank you very much.

 

I have one comment to the guide. I only skimmed it and didn't read it all over again, but I think you didn't cover the following:

Suppose Flame Engine just procced, starting its internal 18s cooldown. You immediately use Flamethrower, starting its 16.5s cooldown. When Flamethrower comes off cooldown, you immediately use it again with no proc. Halfway through your Flamethrower-channel, the internal cooldown of Flame Engine will end and now suppose it so happens that you proc Flame Engine while still channelling Flamethrower. What happens now is the following:

 

1) Your Flamethrower cooldown gets reset while still channeling the first Flamethrower giving you a second Flamethrower channel.

2) When the first Flamethrower ends, you lose the Flame Engine proc which makes your next Flamethrower cost heat and having a 3s-channel. You end up with two Flamethrower channels, but both of them are heat-expensive and slow.

 

I don't know if it's possible to exploit Flame Engine by clipping the two Flamethrowers. As far as I recall, the 1.5s-channel cannot be saved by clipping. The heat cost might be avoidable, I didn't check.

 

Note that once the above happens, the internal cooldown of Flame Engine gets triggered 1.5s before the second Flamethrower is used. Therefore, Flame Engine now gets off cooldown at the same time as Flamethrower, allowing for Flame Engine to proc during the whole 3s Flamethrower-channel, increasing the chance that Flame Engine can not be fully exploited.

 

I didn't play my Powertech in a while and I'm currently unable to play at all, so this is a phenomenon which I saw several months ago and can't test right now. It might have been changed, but if it hasn't one might advocate to spend a talent-point to reduce the Flamethrower-cooldown to 15s. Due to lag, human error and delays of Flamethrower, the same scenario might still occur, but it is less likely which might (needs to be tested) result in higher dps and tps.

 

It's not possible to proc a Pulse/Flame Engine of a Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower, the reason for this is the Engine procs of direct damage attacks, and as Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower are considered AOE's.

[VitoRazoR]

Is it just me? I can only find the Vanguard guide, nothing for Powertech...

[Zoom_VI]

Is it just me? I can only find the Vanguard guide, nothing for Powertech...

 

Translating isn't hard......

[Vectorshader]

Translating isn't hard......

 

Had to do this yesterday, was time consuming and read the guide over and over to make sure I got it right. Here are the cliff notes

 

(These are priorities, not rotations)

 

Single-Target:

• Jet Charge (this gives you free flame sweeps, use it every time its up if possible)
  
• Heat Blast every time it is up
  
• Rocket Punch every time it is up
  
• Railshot every time it is up
  
• Flame Sweep if you have a Flame Surge Buff (this will be twice typically)
  
• Shoulder cannon if you're under 95% health
  
• Flame Burst if you're under 40 heat
  
• Rapid Shots
  

 

Multi-Target:

• Jet Charge (this gives you free flame sweeps, use it every time its up if possible)
  
• Flame Sweep if you have a Flame Surge Buff (this will be twice typically)
  
• Explosive Dart every time it is up
  
• Heat Blast every time it is up
  
• Rocket Punch every time it is up
  
• Railshot every time it is up
  
• Shoulder cannon if you're under 95% health
  
• Flame Sweep if you're under 40 heat
  
• Rapid Shots
  

Edited October 31, 2014 by Vectorshader