Joystick support needs to be a high priority for GS

[TezMoney]

The last time I"m going to say this.

 

You fly at your reticle.

 

Other games use thsi to fly, namely rogue squadron. Rogue Squadron has joystick and controller support considering it was made on a console.

 

You're overlooking the gun ship issue. You'd be horrible at sniping using a stick.

[Sharee]

I do not feel nor expect a greater advantage while using my stick to fly, but I do PREFER that form of control. Its a preference, clean, simple.

 

Mouse controls work fine, and are available to everyone. Therefore adding another control scheme that works just as well, but is available only to a subset of player population, is low priority, not high.

 

That's my issue with this thread. I am not opposed to having another control scheme implemented eventually, just opposed to the claim that the devs need to drop whatever they are doing this instant, and scramble to include support for joystick that the majority of MMO players does not need, want, or in fact even own.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Sharee

[XavinNydek]

Joysticks just aren't viable given the design of GSF. You can't have a locked reticle, accuracy varies based on how far from the center you are firing. Turning rates on the slower ships are not fast enough to ever hit anything if the reticle was locked.

 

A perfect example of why joysticks would be bad is MWO. People insisted on joystick support because they had the same kind of joystick nostalgia about MW as people have about SW space games. The thing is, in a PvP environment joysticks are awful for this kind of combat. It's about precision aiming, not flying. In MWO joystick users are easy to pick out by their movements, and they are easy kills. The same would be true in GSF. I own a Warthog HOTAS setup, and I wouldn't use it if I could, it's just not appropriate to the game.

[RiVaN_]

Joysticks just aren't viable given the design of GSF. You can't have a locked reticle, accuracy varies based on how far from the center you are firing. Turning rates on the slower ships are not fast enough to ever hit anything if the reticle was locked.

 

A perfect example of why joysticks would be bad is MWO. People insisted on joystick support because they had the same kind of joystick nostalgia about MW as people have about SW space games. The thing is, in a PvP environment joysticks are awful for this kind of combat. It's about precision aiming, not flying. In MWO joystick users are easy to pick out by their movements, and they are easy kills. The same would be true in GSF. I own a Warthog HOTAS setup, and I wouldn't use it if I could, it's just not appropriate to the game.

 

Well Said!

Traditional joysticks control Pitch and Roll. Advanced flight sticks give you Throttle and Yaw control as well.

That doesn't translate to GSF controls. Now you may be able to get a gamepad to work well, but I still think that the KB and Mouse give you the most bang for your buck.

I may have been one of the first people to ask for flight stick support when this was on PTS, but after about 300 matches now I'm beginning to see that it just wouldn't work well.

[Thoop]

GSF was designed to be a part of TOR, and therefore specifically created with keyboard and mouse controls in mind. Joystick support is not needed, and putting it in will just give people the (false) impression that you need a joystick to play GSF, which will then drive fewer people to play it, hurting it in the long run. It's not worth it when the controls are fine as is.

 

great argument here

 

if you give a bigger playerbase more options to play the game the way they want to play then obviously less people will take part.

[Swerto]

Well Said!

Traditional joysticks control Pitch and Roll. Advanced flight sticks give you Throttle and Yaw control as well.

That doesn't translate to GSF controls. Now you may be able to get a gamepad to work well, but I still think that the KB and Mouse give you the most bang for your buck.

I may have been one of the first people to ask for flight stick support when this was on PTS, but after about 300 matches now I'm beginning to see that it just wouldn't work well.

 

Except it does.

 

W and S are your throttle (which could easily be boud to a Z axis) ad a and d roll (also could easil be bound to an axis). Namely on an xbox controller your lef stick could accelleratedecelerate and roll while your right stick aimed. (Which is your pitch and yaw)

[Swerto]

Adding controllers would give the impression (false or otherwise) that you now need a controller to stay competitive. It adds a need that should not be there, especially not when so many people who already play GSF seem to get by just fine without it. It's quite simply not needed.

 

Your argument falls apart when you realize there are peripherals available for this game that do give a massive advantage, such as the Razer Naga.

[Kaizersan]

OP: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=699705

 

EDIT:

 

Upvote the reddit thread, keep this thread bumped, let Bioware know we are *not* a minority they can just ignore.

EDIT2: More or less every argument against boils down to "I don't want this because I think it gives an advantage to people who can afford joysticks/gamepads" or "I don't want this, because I think it's dumb, and therefore there should not be an option." or "I don't want this, because it takes development time away from X"

 

Response to number 1: People say that about fight sticks in Fighting games, yet you'll still see people at tournaments using both a controller and a fight stick.

 

Reponse to number 2: You are what is wrong with this community. Just because you won't use something doesn't mean it shouldn't be there. It's an option that will bring in more customers and increase options to the customers already here. It doesn't hurt anyone who doesn't want to use it, and only helps the people who do.

 

Response to number 3: No, it doesn't. Video game design doesn't work like that. The people doing interface coding aren't the people doing art assets, or level design, or class design/balance. Video game design is full of specialists and people who can do general things. Interface coding is usually done by people who do a lot of under the hood stuff, as in not the people who are making new content for the game.

 

 

Hear me out.

 

You are creating an online vehicle combat game. While it is possible to control these things with a mouse and keyboard, people who prefer precision when it comes to moving with a vehicle will often vote for a joystick/flight stick, and maybe even a controller.

 

Additional input support with a gamepad isn't difficult, xinput is natively supported in windows machines which allows all xbox 360 (and now xbone controllers) to be used as a PC controller. There are multiple bindings available already, and if you separate flight controls from on ground controls, this allows multiple bindings for each.

 

I know there is very little reason to have a joystick on the ground part of SWTOR, awesome you've gotten away with it forever, but when you create a flight section of the game where people want to move - a controller is a great addition.

 

Mouse smoothing/etc. can work, it's possible - but you are shutting yourself off from a large crowd of enthusiasts who prefer (and dare I say demand) controller/joystick support.

 

As is, this is how the current control scheme works. Your mouse x and y control your x and y flight by sending your ship moving towards your cursor (which is also your firing arc). You can turn to a maximum around a big circle that is around the center of the screen, after that you can't shoot any further or turn any faster.

 

This could be done on a joystick simply by removing the big circle (because at this point it's just clutter) and forcing the circle to reset (either immediately or slowly) to the center when the joystick goes neutral, and when it is at it's max, be where that circle would be.

 

This would create balanced joystick support without giving an inherent advantage to either party.

 

I hate to break it to you but it is a waste of money from BW point of view because it isn't the main part of the game this game is not a flight sim nor does them adding flight stick support gain them anymore money so you can give up crying for something that will never happen if you want to play a star wars game with a flight stick play a X wing vs Tie fighter game or one of the many other Star Wars games that are based around that kind of control.

[Verain]

I'm sad to see all the "BW shouldn't implement joysticks because then I'll bleed my own blood" posts. Sadly, those guys are almost assuredly gonna get their way. It's still literally the first thing ALL of my friends ask me about the game. "No, the mouse works pretty well." -> "Riiiiiight". That joysticks DIDN'T ship with a flight sim based game is honestly pretty silly.

[Swerto]

I'm sad to see all the "BW shouldn't implement joysticks because then I'll bleed my own blood" posts. Sadly, those guys are almost assuredly gonna get their way. It's still literally the first thing ALL of my friends ask me about the game. "No, the mouse works pretty well." -> "Riiiiiight". That joysticks DIDN'T ship with a flight sim based game is honestly pretty silly.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Sangrar]

I am pretty ok with joysticks as long as I am not forced to go out and buy one (I only got enough allowance to pay my sub), as long as I don't get forced to buy one which I think has a very very low chance of ever happening, then I am fine with joysticks, I mean why not seems like it would be cool.

[Swerto]

I am pretty ok with joysticks as long as I am not forced to go out and buy one (I only got enough allowance to pay my sub), as long as I don't get forced to buy one which I think has a very very low chance of ever happening, then I am fine with joysticks, I mean why not seems like it would be cool.

 

Nobody is asking for that. We are asking for the OPTION to use them.

[Swerto]

Doubt we'll ever get a bioware response to this.

[Itkovian]

It really should bear saying that any arguments of people preferring joysticks for "precision" is irrelevant in this context. The way GSF is build, the mouse is the best peripheral for precision, since it was designed specifically on the concept of using the mouse cursor for aiming.

 

Joysticks will add immersion, and may be more fun to some, but the idea that joysticks would be "better" or more precise has no bearing on reality. Nor does the idea that adding joysticks would somehow make them required. Unless there is a major redesign to make Joysticks just as effective, the mouse will always be the better controller for GSF.

[RiVaN_]

In the first t weeks of GSF I wanted to be able to use my flight stick. Now I'm glad that BW has not acted on this because I think that a flight stick, even an advanced stick that gives you Pitch, roll, yaw and throttle control would not cut it. I don't think we would get the precision that we are hoping for from it. A game pad? Maybe, but not a flight stick. Like I said before While playing GSF on PTS I WANTED flight stick support more than anyone! I spent a couple hours trying to make my Saitek stick work, now that I have been playing GSF a lot I'm glad that I have KB and Mouse cause I realize the Joystick just wouldn't give me the kind of control I am hoping for.

[Mrdann]

yes we need joystick support for this

 

i have tried playing it with a mouse and i can NOT stand it, but mind you i can't stand star fighter in general.

 

the only way that i would ever THINK about going back into this is with joystick support only.

 

until that time comes IF that time comes no thank you i'll stick with proper ground pvp, not some half finished star fighter pvp

[Brynja]

I am so disappointed to see I can't play galactic starfighter with a joystick that I don't think it will make me play SWTOR again. I was really looking forward to this expansion and even bought 1 month subscription before realizing there will never ever be joystick support!

 

Smart move Bioware, how dumb is that decision ?!!

[Mallorik]

It really should bear saying that any arguments of people preferring joysticks for "precision" is irrelevant in this context. The way GSF is build, the mouse is the best peripheral for precision, since it was designed specifically on the concept of using the mouse cursor for aiming.

 

Joysticks will add immersion, and may be more fun to some, but the idea that joysticks would be "better" or more precise has no bearing on reality. Nor does the idea that adding joysticks would somehow make them required. Unless there is a major redesign to make Joysticks just as effective, the mouse will always be the better controller for GSF.

 

A mouse is more precise for aiming but a joystick is more precise for flying. . Without analog yaw and roll a mouse will never compare to a joystick.

[Swerto]

A mouse is more precise for aiming but a joystick is more precise for flying. . Without analog yaw and roll a mouse will never compare to a joystick.

 

A lot of people need to keep in mind that your reticle in this is actually the direction you fly, so all this argument about it being sniping is ********.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

A mouse is more precise for aiming but a joystick is more precise for flying. . Without analog yaw and roll a mouse will never compare to a joystick.

 

Even so the controls could be much better even if no stick support was added.

 

Mainly add a lock crosshair to center toggle button that could be used midflight. Stick or mouse this would vastly improve turning and dogfighting as currently the controls are not optimal for moments where you are both turning and trying to get your crosshair on target (in order to pull a tight enough turn to get the enemy centered your crosshair has to be so far at the edge it is no where close to where you need it to be in order to hit the target. conversely if you keep the crosshair on target it prevents you from pulling a tight enough turn to get them centered and so you suffer a harsh accuracy penalty; a lock crosshairs to center toggle would solve this).

 

Incidentally if they added such a toggle it would make joystick support very possible without having to invent control scheme B for sticks to go along with control scheme A (current) for mice. After coding the toggle button (which I think is a must have improvement even if stick control is never added) all they'd have to do is the behind the scenes work that makes a stick usable with the current control design.

 

IMO a lock crosshair to center toggle is even more important than stick support as it would be a vast improvement over the current cumbersome mouse controls. This from someone who would be very very very happy if stick support was added.

[reclipsed]

I am so disappointed to see I can't play galactic starfighter with a joystick that I don't think it will make me play SWTOR again. I was really looking forward to this expansion and even bought 1 month subscription before realizing there will never ever be joystick support!

 

Smart move Bioware, how dumb is that decision ?!!

 

If you're considering leaving this mmo because of GSF you probably would have/will leave for something else. Fickle people are like that. I understand GSF has a higher learning curve compared to running around smashing things with glowsticks. Not trying to mock you or anything, on the contrary you should play what you enjoy.

 

If you enjoy swtor, ignore GSF and buy a better space flight game to satisfy your needs

[Mallorik]

If you're considering leaving this mmo because of GSF you probably would have/will leave for something else. Fickle people are like that. I understand GSF has a higher learning curve compared to running around smashing things with glowsticks. Not trying to mock you or anything, on the contrary you should play what you enjoy.

 

If you enjoy swtor, ignore GSF and buy a better space flight game to satisfy your needs

 

I think he was saying he came back to the game for GSF and isn't going to stay because the brilliant devs made a flight game with mouse only control.

 

I have 6 friends that did the same thing. Well 4 of them did, the other 2 laughed when they heard about the controls and never even tried it. But you guys keep on arguing to alienate more people from GSF and we will see how long it continues to get support from bioware when theres 10 people on each server left playing it.

 

My prediction is they will add joystick support, it will most likely come too late and will probably not work very well.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Mallorik

[ImmortalLowlife]

A lot of the arguments spoken here in this thread have merit and I value and respect most opinions and perspectives. That being said however I feel that IMHO whether or not someone wants to fly with a controller, Flight stick (as is my preference), Mouse/Keyboard, or their thumbs firmly planted up their backside it shouldn't matter to anyone else. The option to use (most) of these methods SHOULD be available. If you don't want to spend the money on a controller, don't! If you don't want to use a joystick...guess what DON'T! But do NOT tell other people what they can or can not use just because you don't like it or won't utilize it. I do not feel nor expect a greater advantage while using my stick to fly, but I do PREFER that form of control. Its a preference, clean, simple. Spend and play your 14.99 a month and play your game the way you want to but let me play/spend mine.

 

^^^THIS

 

I spent roughly 30min playing "chase the crosshair" in December at launch. I hated the controls & haven't touched it since. I have friends who were interested after they saw the videos I'd post before it launched, but who instantly lost interest after I told them that controllers weren't even an option and that it forces you to use a KB & mouse.

[XavinNydek]

Even so the controls could be much better even if no stick support was added.

 

Mainly add a lock crosshair to center toggle button that could be used midflight. Stick or mouse this would vastly improve turning and dogfighting as currently the controls are not optimal for moments where you are both turning and trying to get your crosshair on target (in order to pull a tight enough turn to get the enemy centered your crosshair has to be so far at the edge it is no where close to where you need it to be in order to hit the target. conversely if you keep the crosshair on target it prevents you from pulling a tight enough turn to get them centered and so you suffer a harsh accuracy penalty; a lock crosshairs to center toggle would solve this).

Back in the day we had spaceflight games where the mouse was locked to the reticle instead of chasing a cursor. That was an awful control scheme, because you ended up having to pick up and drop your mouse over and over. That's one of the main reason people preferred joysticks, because the mouse control system sucked. It wouldn't work here specifically because of the turning inertia and turn rate restrictions of the ship. It would feel very sluggish and make aiming nearly impossible.

[reclipsed]

I think he was saying he came back to the game for GSF and isn't going to stay because the brilliant devs made a flight game with mouse only control.

 

I have 6 friends that did the same thing. Well 4 of them did, the other 2 laughed when they heard about the controls and never even tried it. But you guys keep on arguing to alienate more people from GSF and we will see how long it continues to get support from bioware when theres 10 people on each server left playing it.

 

My prediction is they will add joystick support, it will most likely come too late and will probably not work very well.

 

Everyone has their own opinions and such but there is a reason why FPS twitch type online games have different servers for desktops and consoles. Mouse accur is always better than joypad accur for these types of twitch games, imo.

And your friends that didn't even try it out before deciding it is bad is fail.

 

I welcome the option just because it'll bring in more players, but I imagine most of them will get owned hard