Bombers are coming...

[Wuxtry]

To all those nerf gunship folks.... Bombers Baby... Youll want them gunships now!

http://dulfy.net/2014/01/02/swtor-patch-2-6-sneak-peak/

[jedimessiah]

To all those nerf gunship folks.... Bombers Baby... Youll want them gunships now!

http://dulfy.net/2014/01/02/swtor-patch-2-6-sneak-peak/

 

HaHa I was reading a QQ thread about gunships the other day and kept thinking the same thing.

[RebekahWSD]

I just hope the bombers have some kind of tick repellant. It's getting to where we need to get the satellites the special shampoo.

[DanNV]

I am hoping they listened to the BETA feedback and redesigned the bombers because what they really were there is mine layers. You think it's bad getting a scout out from under a satellite, wait until it's an orbiting bomber that is dropping mines every so often or worse yet mines and drones. You'll wish it was just scouts sitting under there.

[HyenaZERO]

Maybe they'll give the bombers remote guided torpedos. Then we would have both of Star Conflict's long-range platforms.

[mr_sim]

To all those nerf gunship folks.... Bombers Baby... Youll want them gunships now!

http://dulfy.net/2014/01/02/swtor-patch-2-6-sneak-peak/

 

this better not be some prank, It's dulfy so I don't expect it is but, there is so much awesomeness in those patch notes, mostly because I'ma merc healer.

[DanNV]

The drones aren't remote guided, but they do aquire targets and dogfight them. They are smaller and harder to hit than most fighters.

[Caprindo]

Yeah, that could be bad. I think giving scouts or strikes some sort of EMP to deal with drones would be useful... or perhaps making mines (mostly) minor damage and small ranged. Perhaps a limit, like the demo's stick bombs in TF2. Although, I will say, i have no problem with gunships once I get on the ball about avoiding flying directly towards them, so I imagine bombers may have some form of that as well, where they have a crippling weakness if you can make use of it.

[Naelidaan]

The hard counter for bombers was that certain other ship lots of people currently complain about. The general weaknesses of the bombers were that they were the slowest and least maneuverable ship, and poor at focusing any particular target, as most of their damage came from fire and forget drones, mines and mine/missiles.

 

That made them a great choice for giving all the bad pilots a way to usefully contribute though. Something GSF badly lacks at the moment. Hopefully they bring them back similar to the way they were, just without some of the sillier features like the shield ignoring mines that could one-shot scouts.

[Kuciwalker]

I am having a hard time imagining a bomber that would not just be a delicious snack for my gunship.

[Costello]

Going to guess that bombers will be sold in the cartel market.

 

I don't see how this will help the GSF situation. Gun Ships will be the best against bombers while scouts and fighters will get destroyed by them. Not like to improve the Gun Ship situation.

[Sharee]

Going to guess that bombers will be sold in the cartel market.

 

If i had to guess, i'd say one of them will. They mentioned there will be 2 bomber variants.

[reclipsed]

Going to guess that bombers will be sold in the cartel market.

 

I don't see how this will help the GSF situation. Gun Ships will be the best against bombers while scouts and fighters will get destroyed by them. Not like to improve the Gun Ship situation.

 

Did you play them on the PTS? I didn't, but I've read they were super OP and that's why they were not put in now. Going by that and guesstimation, I think since they can heal themselves or other ships it'll take 3-4 full railshots to take one out since a scout goes down in one shot and a striker can take 2 good shots.

 

Edit: to the players that were on PTS, were they big like b-52's? Were they fat and slow?

 

I guess we have to wait and see won't we

Edited January 3, 2014 by reclipsed

[wishingwell]

Edit: to the players that were on PTS, were they big like b-52's? Were they fat and slow?

 

I guess we have to wait and see won't we

 

Yes, on the PTS they were fat and slow. However, since they were basically mine-layers, that wasn't exactly a detriment. They could just plop down some drones and watch the carnage.

 

I, personally, found them to be pretty awful and not very fun at all. But a lot of people really enjoyed the damage they could pull with one.

[mattycutts]

Going to guess that bombers will be sold in the cartel market.

 

I don't see how this will help the GSF situation. Gun Ships will be the best against bombers while scouts and fighters will get destroyed by them. Not like to improve the Gun Ship situation.

 

if yuo have in a team of 12 at least 2-3 bombers, and same in gunships, those gunships will be focusing the bombers, hows that not help scouts and fighters against gunships, easier to sneak up on a gunship if hes busy shooting bombers at a base.

 

i never got to play a bomber so not sure how they will fit in cant say if they will be op or just right, but as another said there are some very low skilled players out there in space pvp so maybe a class that contributes using little skill will actually help.

[Itkovian]

The hard counter for bombers was that certain other ship lots of people currently complain about. The general weaknesses of the bombers were that they were the slowest and least maneuverable ship, and poor at focusing any particular target, as most of their damage came from fire and forget drones, mines and mine/missiles.

 

That made them a great choice for giving all the bad pilots a way to usefully contribute though. Something GSF badly lacks at the moment. Hopefully they bring them back similar to the way they were, just without some of the sillier features like the shield ignoring mines that could one-shot scouts.

 

The thing was that their lack fo speed and maneuverability was meaningless, because their drones and mines made dogfighting them suicidal. About the only way to take out a bomber was to zoom out and do a long range run. Try to tail them, and you were just setting yourself up to take a mine to the face, which was just silly.

 

Nemarus actually wrote a really good thread about the problems with bombers, identifying the main gameplay design Faux Pas with bombers. The principal one was that it was an entirely passive role, which permitted bombers to go full defense while remaining just as powerful through their mines. They could go full shields and turtle up, but their mines would be just as lethal as ever (and boy, were they lethal *grin*).

 

Let's hope they actually went ahead and did some good redesign to bombers in the last month, and didn't just wait until people got comfy with Strikes/Scouts/Gunships because dumping the same design on us.

 

Personally, I think bombers should have Big Guns, Big Missiles, and a single drone (preferrably a support one). Then give them good shields and armour and crappy speed/maneuverability (FFS, don't give them barrel roll), and thye should be an interesting addition.

 

Let's not forget how cool the support drones were, however. They had some that would repair your hull, apparently there'll be some that can re-arm your ammo, they even had a SPAWN POINT drone, which is fecking awesome (think of it as a nav beacon). There's a lot of potential for awesomeness in bombers, I hope it is realized.

 

That, and the fact that bombers are probably going too prey for strikes, so that'll be fun.

[Itkovian]

Going to guess that bombers will be sold in the cartel market.

 

I don't see how this will help the GSF situation. Gun Ships will be the best against bombers while scouts and fighters will get destroyed by them. Not like to improve the Gun Ship situation.

 

Whee! Unfounded assertions! Yay!

 

But seriously, PTS had 2 bombers on each side available, and neither were Premium ships. As such I think that's the 2 bombers we're going to see, not a premium one. Though of course the premium one might be put up for sale too, but it'll be a copy of one of the existing models, just like the other premiums are.

 

As for Gunships, they were good for popping drones, but it's not like bombers were any easier for gunships to shoot down than anything else. They certainly were harder to kill than scouts are today (you're NOT going to 1-shot a bomber).

 

Drones and mines were really the only reason gunships were good against bombers: they didn't have to get close to the Death Area to kill them. Now, if the devs STILL haven't nerfed drones or otherwise redesigned them, then we'll have some major issues anyway regardless of how useful it makes gunships.

 

But let's not jump to conclusions here. There's a reason the devs removed bombers from the PTS and early access. We'll have to wait and see what kind of redesign/rebalancing work they've been doing.

[TUXs]

The thing was that their lack fo speed and maneuverability was meaningless, because their drones and mines made dogfighting them suicidal. About the only way to take out a bomber was to zoom out and do a long range run. Try to tail them, and you were just setting yourself up to take a mine to the face, which was just silly.

 

Nemarus actually wrote a really good thread about the problems with bombers, identifying the main gameplay design Faux Pas with bombers. The principal one was that it was an entirely passive role, which permitted bombers to go full defense while remaining just as powerful through their mines. They could go full shields and turtle up, but their mines would be just as lethal as ever (and boy, were they lethal *grin*).

 

Let's hope they actually went ahead and did some good redesign to bombers in the last month, and didn't just wait until people got comfy with Strikes/Scouts/Gunships because dumping the same design on us.

 

Personally, I think bombers should have Big Guns, Big Missiles, and a single drone (preferrably a support one). Then give them good shields and armour and crappy speed/maneuverability (FFS, don't give them barrel roll), and thye should be an interesting addition.

 

Let's not forget how cool the support drones were, however. They had some that would repair your hull, apparently there'll be some that can re-arm your ammo, they even had a SPAWN POINT drone, which is fecking awesome (think of it as a nav beacon). There's a lot of potential for awesomeness in bombers, I hope it is realized.

 

That, and the fact that bombers are probably going too prey for strikes, so that'll be fun.

 

Informative post...interesting read. I liked your suggestions.

[Philmors]

To all those nerf gunship folks.... Bombers Baby... Youll want them gunships now!

http://dulfy.net/2014/01/02/swtor-patch-2-6-sneak-peak/

And how does this make people want to not nerf gunships to prevent them from onshotting scouts? Just because bombers are coming doesn't mean gunships don't deserve a nerf. You just have to be careful how they are nerfed.

[Cleet_Xia]

I didn't find bombers all that enjoyable to pilot during beta, and returned to flying my strike after flying an upgraded bomber.

 

They caused some problems, but I don't feel it's because they had OP DPS. It was because they had massive shields. They were so large, that even with all power diverted to weapons, a strike couldn't take them down with blasters. Instead you had to score several missle hits & bypass the shields altogether ~ or you had to be armed with an ion weapon. If the dogfight went on too long the bomber's mine would come off CD, and they'd drop one. That mine would instantly lock on and pretty well one shot a scout. So downing bombers by dogfighting, was a strike fighter pilot's job. And at somepoint in the dogfight, the bomber would likely have either a shield or hull health defensive CD come up.

 

Scouts can dogfight bombers, but they need to do it from a range over 2000m. This will give them about half a second to shoot any mine that the bomber deploys. Any closer, and they're courting fate. It's also suicidal for a scout to go head to head with a bomber, as the scout will be unable to shoot the mine through the bomber, and the bomber's shield strength grossly outmatches that of a scout.

 

The other problem with bombers specifically, was pilots deciding to tunnel the bomber....and flying right through a mine field in the process. With bombers in the theatre, it's imperative that pilots pick up their scans and destroy the mines from outside their 3000m range. At the speeds that scouts fly, it doesn't give a pilot much time to acquire the right mine as a target, shoot, and then turn away before aggroing a different mine. Again, it's a little easier to do in a strike. But once all the mines have been cleared, and the bomber's mines are on CD ~ bombers are pretty helpless targets.

 

Any shot will one shot a mine. The ideal craft for clearing the mines is of course a gunship. Because a gunship can clear a hairy multi-bomber laid minefield in less than minute, from well outside their agro range.

 

We didn't see a whole lot of it in the beta, but the bomber is intended to play support role with, deployable spawn points, drones to heal teammates, space for lot's of long range missles, the mine to supplement defense of stations until the turrets spawn, and the shield/hull to delay the cap longer than any other craft. Instead we saw whole wings of bombers, which created matches with massive dps numbers but few kill medals awarded. The gunship wasn't as popular to fly during beta, so I expect that wings of bombers will fail hard if the tactic is tried on the public servers.