New Player Jugg Tank Help

[FalliblePoet]

First, let me put it out there that this is my first MMO. Not going to lie, there are some aspects of this game that are a bit overwhelming, though I think I'm starting to get the hang of things. I have a lvl 16 Jugg currently. I've read up on the different roles (Tank, DPS, and Healing). I was drawn immediately to the tanking side of things. I like the idea of taking the brunt of the attack while my teammates can do their thing. The problem I've found is that I don't think I'm very good at it. I can't seem to keep enemies on me.

 

So I'm reaching out to the community to either give me tips or point me to a comprehensive guide (preferably video series) on what I need to be focusing on as a tank, how to play it, and what I need to work towards as I level up. Things like rotations and what I should be looking for when it comes to equipment upgrades, talent tree, ect. Pretty much anything you can think of.

 

I'm not worried about PVP as I'm really enjoying the storyline so far. My focus is on PVE and being a valuable member when I group up.

 

I play on Shadowlands. Toon name is Ratis. Any help would be most welcome.

 

Thanks all.

[ssfish]

First and foremost, you don't really start to see the roles define themselves until later in the game. Don't let your level 16 experiences discourage you. Work through the story, learn your abilities as they come, and get a feel for what they do.

 

As you start to gain more abilities, you'll be able to more effectively tank content such as Flashpoints. It's hard to have a discussion about tanking when you are limited to the context of low-level abilities.

 

Keep leveling up, have some fun, and learn how to use the abilities that you gain as you level effectively. If you are still having issues when you get to the higher levels and have unlocked most of your repertoire, that would be the time to solicit help.

 

With this being your first MMO, I would encourage you to learn it as you go, instead of having someone hold your hand through the learning process.

Edited December 15, 2013 by ssfish

[UndyingHadyn]

First and foremost, you don't really start to see the roles define themselves until later in the game. Don't let your level 16 experiences discourage you. Work through the story, learn your abilities as they come, and get a feel for what they do.

 

As you start to gain more abilities, you'll be able to more effectively tank content such as Flashpoints. It's hard to have a discussion about tanking when you are limited to the context of low-level abilities.

 

Keep leveling up, have some fun, and learn how to use the abilities that you gain as you level effectively. If you are still having issues when you get to the higher levels and have unlocked most of your repertoire, that would be the time to solicit help.

 

With this being your first MMO, I would encourage you to learn it as you go, instead of having someone hold your hand through the learning process.

 

 

Totally, imagine it like this. (My apologies to the person who created this thread, some minor jest at your expense).

 

 

"Hey everyone, I just started dating, my girlfriend and I want to try sex. Can someone show me how to do it?"

 

Now, do you really want the big boys to sit you and your girl down to talk and display how to "rock and roll"? hehe, there's also a huge chance that your girl might be "seduced by the darkside", and prefer to find a new, more powerful "master".

 

 

 

 

 

 

As far as keeping enemies on you at all times, this won't happen. You must use your taunt abilities accordingly, and prioritize which enemies can slip through your grasp...and which ones cannot. Your teammates won't be one-shotted at lower levels, and in turn, they must learn how to defend themselves as well. Bottom line is this...if the mob/enemy can be cc'ed(stunned, snared, knocked back, etc), then that mob shouldn't present a big threat to your team. The champions however, must not be allowed to get past your guard.

 

 

Pay attention, trust your instincts. Express yourself. You'll do fine.

Edited December 15, 2013 by UndyingHadyn

[AbelNightroad]

As UndyingHadyn said, don't be afraid to let the DPS handle the weaker enemies in a group. Your main focus should be on keeping golds and champions on you; silvers and standards can generally be handled well enough by a DPS with medium or heavy armor (there's almost always going to be at least one of these in a group), and trying to keep everything on you will usually just cause you to lose aggro on everything.

 

This is something I've had to force myself to learn, having tanked on WoW so long. I've been so set in the "I must have the attention of everything at all times if my off-tank is not tanking it" methods that WoW has for so long that teaching myself to let the DPS handle weaker mobs was difficult.

 

Now, I'm still leveling my first tank (Juggernaut at level 45 right now; BELIEVE ME it gets better later because I hated tanking FPs at the early levels too and love it now), but so far this approach has worked well.

Edited December 15, 2013 by AbelNightroad

[Shevaresh]

Well some quick pointers would be:

 

- Tanking in SwToR, you're rarely able, nor need, to hold aggro on all the mobs in a group(Especially at the lower levels). Your job as the tank is to take the toughest mobs in the group and keep them focused on attacking you (Personally I rarely put any sort of real effort in standard and weak mobs, as a rule of thumb)

- The average group will most likely expect you to run through fast and chain-pull everything, becaurse that's what the good tanks usually do. However, do yourself a favor and explain to the group that you're new to this and trying to learn. Most times people will be helpful, patient and even offer advice to help you along. For those that don't, just ignore and move on. (Social skills are, sadly, not mandatory anymore, so you'll run in to those once in awhile)

- Always try and group the group of mobs together, whenever possible. Easiest way is usually doing the "Corner-pull", where you simply taunt one of the mobs and then run out of their line-of-sight. This way all the mobs in the group will come to you. This can be especially useful versus groups of mobs where there are more than one caster(if only one, same result can be achieved by engaging the caster and let the melee come to you). It's important to know however, that "corner-pull" is apperently an "old-school" trick these days and most derpheads will, almost invariably, start engaging the mobs(usually at random target aswell) the very second you do anything to any mob in the group. So always call out if you're "corner-pulling"(And take a deep breath when the derphead uses his/hers knockback and scatters the group, you've just perfectly aligned for mass-tanking, all around the room again)

- Understand that people will eventually expect you to perform perfectly in every encounter every time. Don't shirk from this challenge, but let it challenge you to get each pull performed better that last time. Your job is not to pull big numbers in parses or healing like a care-bear, your job is about controlling every minute detail in every pull. Your job is to analyse and predict how every single mob will react to what you and your group, and respond pro-actively to these behaviors. This will invariably take a long time to learn and require loads of "trial-and-error" to understand how the mechanics actually works, but when you do, you'll know that your best weapons for tanking, are not your skill-set and abillities of your tanking toon, but your raw "tanking-skills" and cunning derived from your knowledge how the mechanics works. In short, you need to become an "detail-driven perfectionistic ego-maniac" that thrives under pressure and pulls like there's no tomorrow! In even shorter, you need to become THE alfa-dog of any group (All of the above is naturally "mildly"(read "allot") exaggerated and dramatised, but it serves as a good indication of the sort of mind-set you'll need to acquire, if you want to eventually push your tanking-skills from being just "a brickwall" to "art")

 

There you go, a rather randomised bit of advice, but advice none the less

[FalliblePoet]

Thanks everyone for the advice. And don't get me wrong, I'm loving this game, but I always want to make sure I'm as good as I can be at something like this. It bugs the crap out of me when I see a same level Jugg with 200 more HP than me.

 

The advice that really stuck out though, was that I don't need to keep everything on me, but only the big guys. That's the sort of tidbits I was digging for. Just sort of what I need to be doing as a tank other than taking loads of damage.

 

My main social gaming experience has been playing CoC on Xbox Live. This community has been almost too nice. I still have yet to be told by a 12 year old he was with my mom the night before. Everyone has been ridiculously helpful.

[Todesking]

Hey, I am also new as a Jugg-Tank, and I really like playing it (lvl 28). The problem is just that everyone is telling me that the Juggernaut Tank is pretty bad and not popular for endgame operations and flashpoints. That would be pretty frustrating, because I really like the Jugg. Can anyone confirm that or is the Jugg-Tank as good as the other classes?

[AbelNightroad]

Hey, I am also new as a Jugg-Tank, and I really like playing it (lvl 28). The problem is just that everyone is telling me that the Juggernaut Tank is pretty bad and not popular for endgame operations and flashpoints. That would be pretty frustrating, because I really like the Jugg. Can anyone confirm that or is the Jugg-Tank as good as the other classes?

 

I've seen people say that about Assassin and Powertech tanks too. Just ignore them.

[Shevaresh]

Jugg tanks have some issues with the damage output, yes, but that's about it. Anyone saying it's bad for endgame, doesn't know what he/she is talking about, end of discussion. So by all means, play a jugg tank if that's your fancy, a player with good knowledge of, and trainning in, his favored class is generally worth 10 FOTM players anyway

[Kacynski]

There have been a lot of things said already, I will get in a few more:

 

- make sure you have a shield equipped in your offhand

 

- make sure you are in tanking stance (Soresu form for Juggs)

 

- be aware that tanking gear is not available at lower levels. The first mods with tanking stats on them can be had around lvl37 +/-. Look for shield/absorb in the lower levels (I consider them more useful before max level) and follow Keyboardninja's thread for max level gearing later on.

 

- be aware that single taunt comes at level 16 and mass taunt (Threatening Scream) comes at level 30, before this tanking is much more difficult

 

- be aware that your most awesome ability - Saber Reflect - comes at level 51. With this AoE tanking becomes much more painless. But it is good that you will need to learn your basics without it.

 

- Call for CC (crowd control). Most classes can take out mobs for 1 minute (only Powertech and Juggernaut have no CC whatsoever), use this. Tell your DPS not to attack CC'd mobs nor use any AoE (area of effect) abilities around them.

 

- set your UI options to show "target of target". In this way you can always see if the mob you are tanking is targetting you or someone else. If it is someone else -> taunt (in most cases).

 

- know how the threat mechanics work: Almost all mobs (some boss fights ignore the general threat mechanics, but 99% of the mobs follow it) attack the player that has the highest threat on their aggro list. Threat is generated

a) on sight i.e. you come within the mob's aggro range. This is a very low amount of threat

b) by attacking the mob. Threat is generated equal to the damage made for DPS. A tank has several attacks that do "high threat", they generate more threat than their damage potential (usually a 50% higher threat)

c) by healing. Healing threat is half of the amount healed (i.e. a healer heals you for 1000 HP, that generates 500 threat) to all mobs engaged in the fight. This is healing generates very low aggro, but it generates it to all mobs. In other words all mobs that are not being attacked by tank or DPS will go straight for the healer

d) Your tank stance doubles all threat generated by you, be it from damage or healing or other sources (if you pop a medpack this also generates healing thread which is doubled by stance)

e) in order to pull aggro a player in melee range (4m) needs to generate 110% threat of the current mob's target and a player beyond that needs to generate 130% threat to pull aggro

f) because of this threat mechanics tell your DPS that kill order is Normal -> Silver -> Gold, and they should handle the normals. You will tank Silver and above (a good DPS can handle a silver, but not all can). All mobs must be engaged by either you or the DPS or they will whack the healer.

 

- know how your Guard works: in PvE your guarded target will generate 25% less threat and will get 5% less damage. As by how the threat mechanics work, Guard is wasted on a healer. They generate very low threat and are usually only attacked by targets no one else attacks. They will be No. 1 on these aggro lists anyway, no matter if their threat is reduced or not. Because melee players only need to generate 110% threat to pull from you, they sould get guard (Marauder, DPS Jugg, Powertech). If you have a strong ranged DPS that pulls aggro switch Guard over to that player.

 

- know how your taunts work: Your taunt will generate 110% (at melee range) or 130% (beyond melee range) threat of the current highest threat (as it generates exactly the amount of threat necessary for pulling aggro). So if a DPS pulls a mob off of you and you taunt at that moment, you will generate 110/130% threat of what that DPS had. It will also force the mob to attack you for 6 secs, regardless of threat. Because of this mechanic, a taunt is wasted at the start of the fight (110% of zero threat is still zero threat). Either wait with the taunt until someone pulls or put it into your tanking rotation at some point after you already generated a good amount of thread (in this case you are No. 1 on the threat list and the taunt will give you 110% threat of what you had before, this is called "threat fluffing" or "taunt fluffing".

 

- know how to utilize your mass taunt. First it can be used in a pull that has been completely messed up and all the mobs whack at someone else. Mass Taunt will get this straight. Second you can also plan your mass taunt with AoE from ranged classes. Let the start the pull with AoE and mass taunt before the mobs run to them. You will get a lot off thread and on all mobs hit by AoE (as explained) above and they should stay on you for the remainder of the fight.

 

Beyond that its practice, practice and practice. Ask on the forums for specific problems, usually you will get very good advice.

 

E: formatting

Edited December 16, 2013 by Kacynski

[Todesking]

Thanks to all of you and a special thanks to Kacynski, this helped a lot!

 

I don't really know why so many people are crying about the Jugg-Tank, I can easily handle 2 enemies in PVP solo and abilities like force choke are so much fun...

[benovide]

If you're not doing the first tank tree on the left, you're not a tank, period.

 

Furthermore, you wont really be tanking anything until you hit level 31 TBH.....

 

Taunt is your friend, keep the heavy hitters on you.

 

That's about it until you hit 31.

[Loc_n_lol]

Furthermore, you wont really be tanking anything until you hit level 31 TBH.....

 

That seems to be a problem with the juggernaut tank tbh... low-level assassins and PTs have no problem holding aggro over large mobs (surviving that aggro is a different problem altogether, for the assassin at least). As a jugg you get... smash and pray the dps don't go too crazy with aoe ?

[benovide]

Jugg tanks have some issues with the damage output, yes, but that's about it. Anyone saying it's bad for endgame, doesn't know what he/she is talking about, end of discussion. So by all means, play a jugg tank if that's your fancy, a player with good knowledge of, and trainning in, his favored class is generally worth 10 FOTM players anyway

 

At level 55, a max geared Juggernaut specced in tank tree, and Tank gear, outdoes any other tank in the game.

 

The few level 55 Jugg Tanks with the 78 gear, I've seen them solo me through 55HMs, and cruise entire groups through OPs. We had 3 55 jugg tanks with 78 gear, that pushed us thread the Dread Fortress. WHile the rest of the group kept dying/getting slaughtered, in that 16 man group, with ONE Sorc Healer with 78 gear, those 4 players cruised us through the entire OP.

 

In PVP, Jugg/Guard tank=God Mode.

[benovide]

That seems to be a problem with the juggernaut tank tbh... low-level assassins and PTs have no problem holding aggro over large mobs (surviving that aggro is a different problem altogether, for the assassin at least). As a jugg you get... smash and pray the dps don't go too crazy with aoe ?

 

But in higher levels, Assassin tank turns into complete and total garbage which can be tossed into a dumpster, and the Powertech begins to aggro less and less. (But deals more damage) Assassin turns into paper michet.